Amoveo ♥🧿
25 December 2018
B
06:30
Ben
that is not a problem of GPU
M⛏
06:31
Moe ⛏
also , zach has made it clear from the beginning that his goal is to make the algo as asic friendly as possibble
OK
06:32
O K
In reply to this message
It's a frustrating conversation but I admit I feel similar feelings when we talk about the dual miner. Especially blaming price fluctuations on it. Should we make a "mining-theory" section of the discord and move the conversation there?
Z
06:33
Zack
It is so easy to show that GPU cannot be a long term solution.
As long as we use GPU, there will be a huge amount of available hardware that isn't mining for Amoveo, so it will always be cheap to rent a bunch of hardware and do a 51% attack.


on earth you are entitled to your own opinion, but I feel it is not beneficial to Amoveo to allows people to say things on our forum that are easily proven false.
Lies are bad.
OK
06:34
O K
Believing something that is incorrect and telling a lie are not the same thing
06:34
Sometimes people need to hash things out to find the truth
06:35
How about the #mining-theory channel so people can figure out the truth for themselves?
06:36
There are people that think the bitcoin censorship was good too, maybe I'm wrong again.
Z
06:36
Zack
In reply to this message
I tried reasoning with him, but instead of responding to my arguments, he attacks me as a person.

This isn't someone who wants to hash things out. He just wants to keep GPU mining as long as possible without regard for the success of Amoveo.
OK
06:37
O K
I think most normal people don't see that as an attack against your person.
06:37
Here's one thing I know:
06:38
In reply to this message
For a long time I believed wrong things about bitcoin primarily because of the censorship that took place in bitcoin forums
06:38
That affected me personally
06:38
I've come to see the light, but without that censorship I could have learned for myself much sooner
B
06:41
Ben
guys, looks like i hit a nerve, wish you all a Merry Christmas.
Z
06:41
Zack
In reply to this message
he completely disregarded my reasoning. didn't respond to a single argument, and instead questioned my ability to think.

There is a big difference between censoring opinions that disagree with you, vs cleaning up spam.
This situation is clearly a case of removing spam.
B
06:42
Ben
nice evening for you all.
e
09:34
enti
In reply to this message
Isn’t asics a centralisation problem though ? There’s always a gap between the creation and the resell to the public
OK
09:40
O K
When asics are not expected, or when a coin hides from them, they are done secretly historically
09:41
But amoveo is designed a little differently, to welcome them and make them easier to manufacture
09:41
Better for competition in manufacturing
AK
12:12
A K
F1 seem to hit an optimum design , very smart
12:13
They took not the latest chips , but the most dollar efficient per hash (28nm), plus no memory or other links (that make cvp, bcu boards expensive), and created a custom PCB
12:14
And they sourced these k7325 chips at super prices, retail Xilinx offer is unbelievably higher
12:15
For CPU intensive algos seems like the correct approach
Deleted joined group by link from Group
S
19:30
Shaun
wow doug polk welcome dude
Marc One（子衿） invited Marc One（子衿）
T
21:16
Tromp
In reply to this message
Is he the one from coincentral?
S
21:16
Shaun
if it's really him and not someone impersonating him yes
26 December 2018
DV
03:30
Denis Voskvitsov
hi! here is a little Christmas present from Exantech:

1) we have finally released a nice web wallet, based on reworked light-node js code. it supports only basic operations yet but will be improved: http://myveowallet.com. it uses merkle proofs so it is as secure as original light node wallet at least.

2) its source code is available at https://github.com/amoveo-project/js-web-wallet, reworked light node is at https://github.com/amoveo-project/js-light-node.
Within a few updates you'll be able to download compiled code and run it locally too, or you can build it manually and use it right now.

3) we released the source code of mobile wallets, available at https://github.com/amoveo-project/amoveo-android-wallet and https://github.com/amoveo-project/amoveo-ios-wallet

documentation of the projects will be certainly evolving.

feel free to research the code, use the apps and ask your questions
OK
03:32
O K
I love these guys! Thanks for your hard work. This is amazing.
DV
03:33
Denis Voskvitsov
thanks!
AK
03:35
A K
wow wow wow
e
03:35
enti
nice UI
AK
03:35
A K
1 - install instructions are for Linux? or platform agnostic?
AK
03:35
Alex K
In reply to this message
🔥🔥🔥
DV
03:36
Denis Voskvitsov
In reply to this message
they are platform-agnostic, though I guess it would be easier to start on *nix-based system.
anyway, you can wait a little more and get ready-to-use bundle.
03:36
instead of building manually and fiddling with npm deps, I mean
MF
03:36
Mr Flintstone
:) good work guys!
AK
03:37
A K
after the Copay fiasco I wonder if you're doing npm versioning with a private repo ))
Z
03:38
Zack
In reply to this message
Great job!
DV
03:39
Denis Voskvitsov
In reply to this message
we have strictly defined dependency versions, and use private caching npm instance to build the version at myveowallet.com
03:39
In reply to this message
thank you!
AK
03:46
A K
1 - will it support ledger? i can see you published the ledger app in the github, too
DV
03:50
Denis Voskvitsov
yep, we did
this app can now be used in dev mode only with console tools tho

we're working on ledger integration into web/desktop wallet.
J
04:20
Jurko | Bermuda capital 📈
In reply to this message
Awesome! Thank you
S
04:47
Shaun
It looks amazing guys congrats and thank you!!
Z
05:07
Zack
There are about 200 blocks left till the hard update. Make sure to update your full nodes before then.
S
05:09
Sy
ah good reminder, restarting the primary node now 😅
05:10
both pulled and recompiled just now, im good
Z
05:11
Zack
Great
S
05:11
Sy
not like the last time *cough cough* xD
Z
05:11
Zack
@potat_o you are ready?
OK
05:12
O K
I started today but will finish in time, thanks for the reminder
Z
05:12
Zack
Great
MF
05:15
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
lol did you ever figure out why it fixed itself?
S
05:16
Sy
i pulled but never restarted the main node xD
05:16
it fixed itself after primary and secondary node finally grew apart enough for the primary to fall behind so the pool switched to the secondary node and finally supported the new chain 😅
05:17
but for around 20 blocks the primary was higher so...its the "right" chain
05:17
i think one of my big miner even switched pool to trigger the failover
05:18
i did "make prod-restart" the secondary node because its just the backup node, i always do that one first so it was updated...
Oleg Kislitsyn invited Oleg Kislitsyn
S
05:19
Sy
46840 25.12.2018 21:13:49 BB8empLfec49ceW+n0zUmaeGR+Pucb
05:19
another block by the new pool...whoever it is
05:22
gotta increase block mature time for payout soon, last time i paid some orphaned blocks so i really learned from my mistake xD
M⛏
06:17
Moe ⛏
In reply to this message
Sick job.. you guys continue to impress
M⛏
06:43
Moe ⛏
In reply to this message
Not the real Doug Polk
06:45
Or I should say not the one from coin central that your thinking of
S
11:23
Sy
lots of empty blocks since the update...lets wait and see
11:32
but i think there arent any tx anymore
OK
11:32
O K
Quiet day in crypto
11:33
Send a zackoshi
Z
12:44
Zack
In reply to this message
Still like 30 hours till the update
S
13:28
Sy
there they are...odd
Nagy invited Nagy
Arthur Morosov invited Arthur Morosov
Я
15:33
Ярослав
In reply to this message
Привет. Спасибо за работу!
Есть где на русском почитать об кошельке? Инструкция например...
?
15:58
🤠Anton
In reply to this message
🔥🔥🔥
I
17:17
Instinct
In reply to this message
Great 👍🏼
dr. propionate invited dr. propionate
27 December 2018
B
02:52
Ben
nice jobs @exan Tech guys
David ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) invited David ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Z
13:08
Zack
About 32 blocks till the hard update.
32 blocks is about 352 minutes is about 6 hours.
J
15:21
Jurko | Bermuda capital 📈
👀
15:45
Deleted Account
if my veo stay in a1 exchange, what happens to them after hard update, any one>
AK
16:13
A K
2 veo!
16:13
VeoZV and VeoA1
16:14
(j/k, nothing will happen to your veo, all should be fine)
16:14
Deleted Account
lol thanks
S
17:11
Sy
😂
S
17:13
Shaun
😄😄 Your VEO will be just fine
Ivek invited Ivek
[
18:12
[Riki]
In reply to this message
Animation
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550.5 KB
Llama invited Llama
Z
20:05
Zack
We passed the hard update height
20:16
Amoveopool and veopool have both mined blocks after the update. Looks like a success.
K
20:23
KS
where could i find the mining instructions for dummies ;-)
Z
20:24
Zack
In reply to this message
See the pinned message.
R
20:24
Robot085
Where can I read about hardfork. And what is it for?
B
20:50
Ben
good job, nice achievment.
T
20:51
Tromp
In reply to this message
🍺nice
[
20:53
[Riki]
What aspect of sharding is amoveo utlitzing? Is it already live?
Z
20:54
Zack
In reply to this message
Currently full nodes remember all the consensus state, and light nodes remember none.

A shard node will only remember some of the consensus state.
20:56
Before this update, block verification involved looking up some data from the accounts.

After this update, you can verify blocks without having to look anything up.
So you can store any fraction of the consensus state, and you can still verify all the blocks like a full node does.
20:56
I will add some options to the config file soon so you can run your node as a shard.
[
21:00
[Riki]
Smooth explanation. Ty
ŽM
21:01
Živojin Mirić
very nice
T
21:58
Topab
Nice
Z
23:21
Zack
https://veoscan.io/
2/3rds of nodes did not update.
They will need to resync all the blocks.
Make sure to do ./rebar upgrade so that all the dependencies get updated, then do git pull to update Amoveo, then make prod-clean to start over from the genesis block.
e
23:24
enti
In reply to this message
are your light wallets updated ?
Z
23:30
Zack
In reply to this message
The light wallet on github is. Probably some full nodes are still serving the old broken version.
Since I broke it immediately before telling everyone to update.
23:38
Deleted Account
https://veoscan.io/blocks
Last block mined is over an hour ago
23:39
(according to VeoScan at least)
AK
23:41
A K
🤔
e
23:42
enti
In reply to this message
happens a lot you know :)
23:42
but veoscan might be not updated
Z
23:42
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_core/src/consensus/forks.erl#L20

You can see that the update height was 25 blocks ago.
The 1 hour block is probably due to randomness.
e
23:43
enti
well, it's 3 hours late now 😅
Z
23:43
Zack
What is 3 hours late?
23:44
Nothing is late. This was a very successful hard update.
23:45
Deleted Account
Great. Will keep monitoring
23:46
Speak of the devil... Veopool block just appeared
AK
23:47
A K
and now amoveopool )
28 December 2018
Deleted invited Deleted Account
S
00:41
Sy
explorer.veopool.pw stopped syncing for some reason, just came back and will look into it now
00:45
all back to normal
Z
01:44
Zack
Great, thanks sy.
T
03:24
The Ancients
that boy sitting on a beach somewhere sipping a coconut
MF
03:38
Mr Flintstone
veo added to another cmc exchange :)
Z
03:38
Zack
which one?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
03:43
Zack
awesome, thanks for sharing Mr Flintstone
AK
03:46
A K
😍
M
03:55
Minieep21
Great! Can now officially req\uest CMC submission https://coinmarketcap.com/request/ @zack#6467
?
03:55
🤠Anton
In reply to this message
🔥🔥🔥
Z
03:56
Zack
In reply to this message
thanks imalk, i will fill it out now
03:56
bitibu is one, what is the other exchange that listed us?
M
03:57
Minieep21
graviex
?
03:57
🤠Anton
https://amoveo.io/wheretobuy/
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
04:14
Zack
I submitted the request to CMC, it says they will take at least a week to process it.
J
04:20
Jurko | Bermuda capital 📈
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04:35
Deleted Account
When Dow Jones?
M⛏
05:41
Moe ⛏
Can people start making markets again, now that the hard update is done?
MF
05:41
Mr Flintstone
i think so
05:42
would love to try out the otc bet functionality
05:42
once available
Z
05:46
Zack
yes, we can make oracles and markets again.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
11:30
Deleted Account
hi guys
T
11:32
Topab
Futarchy is great for governance but I see coin issuance should be fixed and not changable like in btc. When the issuance was reduced by 33% the priced increased, if issuance is increase price will fall, what is the use of changing this part of the protocol? I see more people attracted to amoveo when they are assured issuance is set in stone https://twitter.com/KyleSamani/status/1077624476144144384
11:32
What is your view?
11:43
Deleted Account
I have the following problem. amoveobook.com uses Amoveo3 wallet. I've installed it (getting a new account) and transferred some veo there. Veoscan shows that transaction is ok, and my new account really have some money. But wallet's gui shows 0 VEO
11:45
did anyboby used Amoveo3 wallet and maybe had similar problem?
11:47
it works with chrome only
11:51
In reply to this message
in my opinion, it depends on particular emission policy. If emission is always small (such as for gold) than it is similar to zero. On the other hand, money must not become an absolute treasure like piece of art. overvaluation is not good
MF
12:18
Mr Flintstone
@victor_vl you can reach out to Johnny cash on discord who maintains it
12:21
johnny_cash
12:54
Deleted Account
thanks
Z
13:15
Zack
In reply to this message
I think that the reward should be proportional to the demand for new Veo.

This isnt a decision for us to make. Futarchy should control these decisions, that way it is decentralized.
MF
13:19
Mr Flintstone
old veo is just as good as new veo
13:22
the only thing new veo does that old veo can’t is increase the market cap
Ivarna Zhirkov invited Ivarna Zhirkov
IZ
17:47
Ivarna Zhirkov
In reply to this message
I think that the volume has to pick up before it can get listed.
17:49
It's still close to 0
29 December 2018
02:52
Deleted Account
The block subsidy is an interesting thing to parametrize. At any given point it seems like former miners and existing holders will want it minimized. And current miners will want it maximized.

One reason the first group may want to keep it higher is to encourage more miners/mining development. But I don't see why that would need to be tied to future VEO minting rates when the incentive (VEO) could be provided by existing holders via a contract.
04:18
Deleted Account
has anyone noticed that in the last couple days the volume in A1 exchange on VEO/ETH pair is nearly 0? what happened?
MF
04:48
Mr Flintstone
veo died
T
04:50
Tromp
Long live veo
04:52
Deleted Account
i am not me when trading veo lol
ﾶ乇尺ﾚﾉ刀 invited ﾶ乇尺ﾚﾉ刀
ﾶ
05:23
ﾶ乇尺ﾚﾉ刀
MerLin:
What is the circulation supply & max supply ?
Thanks.
DV
05:24
Denis Voskvitsov
current supply is on veoscan.io, top right corner
max supply is unlimited
ﾶ
05:24
ﾶ乇尺ﾚﾉ刀
Ok Thanks 👍
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
06:35
Zack
In reply to this message
Mining is how the network grows. Bigger networks gain value from network effects.

Too low a reward is bad for the price of Veo just like too high a reward is bad.
Z
08:01
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo

The light node no longer requires running python, this should make it easier for anyone who wanted to use the stand alone light node on a windows computer, and it makes cold storage easier.
08:07
oops, I messed up compatibility with Amoveo. I will fix that now.
Z
08:25
Zack
ok, all fixed.
T
12:32
Topab
After reading this I think amoveo makes a lot of sense https://twitter.com/TuurDemeester/status/1078682801954799617 Zack mentioned that about 10 smart contracts and no more are enough to bring up all the potential of decentralized financial markets in amoveo
12:36
here is in an article for anybody who wants to read it out of twitter https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1078682801954799617.html
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
14:46
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/getting-started/updating.md
I made a document about updating a full node.
Since a lot of people running full nodes didn't update for the recent hard update, and got left behind. This could be useful.
14:47
Deleted Account
Still plan to fork Amoveo for AE holders? Zack
Z
14:48
Zack
That was never a plan.
14:48
Deleted Account
Ok Sorry for misunderstanding
30 December 2018
Z
00:19
Zack
catweed
How do you calculate txid for each transaction?
I think I made a mistake somewhere, because veoscan and veopool explorer are using different txid for each tx
S
00:21
Shaun
In our internal system we hash the entire raw transaction data, isnt that how its supposed to be?
Z
00:22
Zack
that sounds right. if you calculate the same hashes as the full node, then for sure it is good
Deleted invited Deleted Account
01:30
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
I figured out that it is veoscan's problem.
It does not correctly parse a block when it contains channel_solo_close tx.
I will fix this but may take some time.
01:52
Deleted Account
Veoscan assumes txs are aligned by txid in a block, and txid will be assigned wrongly when it fails to parse some tx.
Z
02:48
Zack
ok, thanks for the info catweed.
Toan Matos | Mo Mo Moon invited Toan Matos | Mo Mo Moon
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Alpha Fawkes invited Alpha Fawkes
🅰͢͢͢🅽🅳🆁🅴🅸 invited 🆂🅸🆁🅾🆃🅰
31 December 2018
Z
00:50
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/other_blockchains/bonding_curves.md
I wrote about why bonding curves are bad.
It is also introduces basic concepts for why Amoveo is designed how it is.
Z
01:31
Zack
https://twitter.com/zack_bitcoin/status/1079419216900419584?s=19

My least popular tweet ever.
0 of 500 people liked it.
Less than 0.1%, compared to about 1% for a typical post.
01:31
I guess linking too many people is a bad strategy for tweets
Xing invited Xing
DV
02:31
Denis Voskvitsov
02:32
presented amoveo today at 35C3 in Leipzig
Z
02:33
Zack
Awesome! Thanks Denis.
I can help you with making slides or planning the talk if you do something like this again
AK
02:34
A K
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DV
02:34
Denis Voskvitsov
In reply to this message
thanks, I think I'll ask you next time
AK
02:34
A K
having a community created open source slide deck is a great idea indeed
DV
02:36
Denis Voskvitsov
I have this info card, and can share source if someone wants to improve
02:36
02:37
it's for A6 format flyer
02:37
slides for presentations would be great thing too
Z
02:38
Zack
Looks good.
I probably don't have much to add, Denis and exan.tech always produce high quality professional looking content.
But I would still try to help.
A
02:40
Aries
In reply to this message
Looks good
B
02:43
Ben
Great Job, was not aware that you are in Leizig, i would have stopped over.
S
02:56
Sebsebzen
In reply to this message
Wowowow
Z
02:57
Zack
Is there a video of the talk?
DV
02:57
Denis Voskvitsov
I'll ask orgs, but I'm not sure it was recorded
Z
03:37
Zack
Can you post the slides somewhere? Maybe I can help improve them
Z
06:51
Zack
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=amoveo

It looks like the amoveo-coin vs amoveo-spa flippening is about to happen!
06:52
I bet we surpassed the Amoveo Australian construction company a long time ago.
OK
06:53
O K
If we cost them a lot of business, we can use dominant assurance contracts to fund some bridges in their area
Z
08:13
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/use-cases-and-ideas/climate_maintenance.md

I wrote this document about using futarchy to maintain an environment where humans can thrive.
Kirby invited Kirby
Z
13:37
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/issues/4

Now I'm thinking about how to do the resolution step. The tx to close the channel and properly distribute winnings.
Izlo invited Izlo
Andre Cronje invited Andre Cronje
D
20:02
Danil
Hi @andrecronje! Are you going to do Veo's code review?
AC
20:03
Andre Cronje
In reply to this message
Don't know. Will see ;)
D
20:03
Danil
In reply to this message
👍
TT invited TT
1 January 2019
Z
01:50
Zack
The price changed a lot today
k
01:57
kk
That's such a huge greed dildo
02:01
Hopefully they will clear both orderbooks at qtrade and vinex
02:01
Then moon 🌝
T
02:11
Tromp
The “greed” dildo hahaha
02:14
Happy new year to the amoveo community, lets hope 2019 is a great year for crypto and this awesome project 🍺
J
02:15
Jurko | Bermuda capital 📈
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AK
02:15
A K
😂
02:15
VEO 2019 in 2019
AS
02:15
Aizen Sou
Too easy. 1 VEO = 1 BTC at least 😏
k
02:17
kk
Someone knows something, so many buy orders the last 3 hours
Z
02:18
Zack
So many inexperienced traders in amoveo.
If you want to invest, it is best to do it slowly. Especially in small cap coins like amoveo.
J
02:20
Jurko | Bermuda capital 📈
In reply to this message
This. 😁👍
MF
02:20
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
not if you have an informational edge
02:21
then u just gotta take as much liquidity as you can up to what the new price should be
Z
02:22
Zack
There are trust limitations in cryptocurrency markets.
the liquidity in the exchange is only a fraction of how much actually exists.
02:22
If you take a few days, you will buy so many more Veo at a much better price
MF
02:22
Mr Flintstone
not if other people are about to find out what it is that you know
Z
02:23
Zack
Yes, in that case you are right. If there is some secret about to be revealed, then their strategy would make sense
T
02:23
Tromp
In reply to this message
Why so bearish?
MF
02:23
Mr Flintstone
maybe it is just someone that likes to pump coins idk
02:23
but ppl don’t usually destroy their money for fun
Z
02:24
Zack
Ever been to las Vegas?
[
02:24
[Riki]
that was the pre-CMC listing pump
MF
02:24
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
haha fair, but I bet lots of those ppl think they’re gonna win
02:25
I can’t imagine someone does this out of straight up gambling tho
Z
02:25
Zack
You would think cmc would have a better system to profit from listing, since they have total control of timing.
OK
02:25
O K
Is cmc that important?
02:25
At such a low cap? I really don't know.
T
02:25
Tromp
Well, there is not much liquidity yet if a huge fund wants a piece of veo even if it represents a small fraction of their AUM it would inveitably impact the price
Z
02:25
Zack
I don't know either. There is probably enough historical record to find out
OK
02:26
O K
If we appeared out of nowhere in the top 50 that would be big though
02:26
So maybe there is some incentive to raise the market cap.
[
02:26
[Riki]
cmc does matter, it is somewhat important
OK
02:26
O K
I just mean the lower on their list, the less important I would assume it would be
02:27
Maybe I'm wrong
02:27
Or if it gets listed and shows +xxx%that might look good too
Z
02:28
Zack
I'm imagining some rich Chinese kid getting a new years gift and dumping it all in a market buy in Veo.
T
02:28
Tromp
Lol
[
02:28
[Riki]
at current mkt cap $15m we are in top 200 on cmc
T
02:28
Tromp
In reply to this message
I guess you are the biggest holder right?
02:28
That we know of
Z
02:28
Zack
It's still locked up an inaccessible to me
T
02:29
Tromp
Yeah true, maybe exantech is the biggest holder right now
Z
02:30
Zack
How many people use amoveo apps on their phones now?
T
02:33
Tromp
Is it possible to get data from apple and android app stores and see the downloads?
Ben Middleton invited Ben Middleton
AS
02:41
Aizen Sou
Someone already ruined the fun 😠
MF
02:44
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
I use the exan android/iOS app for small amounts
02:44
very convenient
02:52
maybe some small hf is trying to window dress 2018 returns lmao
M
04:31
Mike
VEO price means nothing with little liquidity
04:32
Everyone is hoarding so price isn’t really a reflection of the project in my opinion
04:32
Deleted Account
price is right
M
04:35
Mike
If anyone wanted a real chunk they’d be paying $600 per
AK
07:50
A K
In reply to this message
this is not mutually exclusive )
AK
08:23
A K
How i became a crypto-mining millionarie in under 2 years during a bear market. - CryptoCurrency
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ab7qce/how_i_became_a_cryptomining_millionarie_in_under/
08:23
(mentions amoveo)
d
14:28
dr. propionate
Animation
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
140.2 KB
S
18:13
Sebsebzen
4chan /biz posting needed now :)
18:13
where are the VEO memes
18:17
> greentext stories
v
18:20
vavanu4
In reply to this message
To late..
EW
22:05
Eli W
Happy new year VEO 🎁
2 January 2019
Z
01:52
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/issues/4
More planning for the OTC betting mechanism.
Now we know what information the users will need to write on their form, and we know how many messages are needed for this protocol, and we know how many stages the light node will pass through in the time evolution of this contract.
DV
03:10
Denis Voskvitsov
btw, I've checked the stats for mobile wallets, and it shows about 190 active users total
so, it turns out like 15% of community (and maybe even more share of active community members) are using them.

just wanted to remind that theirs source code is available at github.com/amoveo-project/
we're working on publishing android build to f-droid too.
Z
04:04
Zack
In reply to this message
great job Denis!
B
04:30
Ben
indeed, great job.
BH
05:28
Blue Hills
Is this wallet still up to date? http://159.65.120.84:8080/wallet.html
05:29
Doesn't seem to be working to send Amoveo, I got it to work last time but it was a little finiky
05:31
Nevermind, I seemed to have gotten it to work now!
trappist invited trappist
George invited George
S
10:03
Sebsebzen
In reply to this message
Let me know if you need the ZH translation
10:03
Can you extract into a format that’s easy to translate?
milly invited milly
Z
11:02
Zack
use the light node.
t
12:45
trappist
what's the appropriate multiplier to apply to difficulty for a mining calculator? on bitcoin it's 2^22 but that doesn't give the right results here, and I can't find a reliable source for total network hashrate so I can't use that either
Z
12:45
Zack
veopool has a calculator I think
12:46
http://159.65.120.84:8080/explorer.html this page estimates current hashrate. "update height"
AK
12:59
A K
In reply to this message
Veo diff is in hash per block afair
12:59
So calc from Blocktime and diff
t
13:00
trappist
but diff times what?
AK
13:00
A K
Diff / seconds in a block
13:01
If I remember correctly and diff is returned in "hashes per block"
t
13:03
trappist
guess I need to find an api with this data or figure out how to read the output of block:get_by_height()
Z
13:04
Zack
just use the veopool calculator.
t
13:04
trappist
I did find a source of hashes in the last block, but either it was wrong or my math is wrong because the result was definitely wrong
t
13:04
trappist
Zack I'm trying to make a calculator for my own app
13:04
wish that one was js so I could just port it
13:05
or open source php
Z
13:05
Zack
estimate the network hashrate.
(your rewards per day) = (block rewards per day) * (your hashrate) / (network hashrate)
t
13:06
trappist
that's just what I was doing when I noticed the standard difficulty multiplier doesn't work, but it turns out "estimate the network hashrate" is easier said than done
13:07
so I look for a source of that data and found several but they report very different results
Z
13:07
Zack
I have no idea what a "standard difficulty multiplier" is.
13:07
there are plenty of ways to estimate something like the hashrate, and they will give different numbers.
t
13:07
trappist
well I'm new to writing these calculators but on bitcoin it's 2^22 and that seems to be quite common
Z
13:08
Zack
I have no idea what you are using 2^22 for in bitcoin.
t
13:11
trappist
(block_reward * 24 * 60 * 60 * hashrate) / (2**22 * difficulty)
Z
13:11
Zack
Why would you do that? hashrate of what?
t
13:11
trappist
that's ruby for 2^22
13:11
my hashrate
Z
13:11
Zack
are you trying to calculate something useful?
t
13:11
trappist
that returns expected blocks per day
13:12
based on (my) hashrate and bitcoin's current difficulty and block reward
Z
13:12
Zack
why would increasing the block reward make you find more blocks? That doesn't make sense.
t
13:13
trappist
sorry, expected coins per day, not blocks
Z
13:14
Zack
Amoveo difficulty can change on every block
t
13:14
trappist
that's a bit problematic with bitcoin though because hashrate changes a lot between difficulty readjustments, but it's close enough to be useful for now
13:15
right so I can get very up to date info there, but I don't know what to do with that number, 2^22 isn't the right multiplier and neither is 1
Z
13:15
Zack
So, in bitcoin, they give you a number they call "difficulty", and what that number means is (our estimate of the number of hashes per day created by the entire network / (2^22))
13:16
If you wanted to calculate a similar number for Amoveo, simply estimate the network hashrate per day, and then divide by (2^22).
t
13:17
trappist
difficulty on bitcoin (and I assumed amoveo) describes the requirement for a valid block... it's set based on network hashrate, but only about every 2 weeks, so it's not quite the same thing
Z
13:18
Zack
what do you mean by "difficulty in amoveo"? what number are you talking about?
t
13:18
trappist
well that's a good question, I'm getting it from an API and I don't know the actual source, I assumed the blockchain as on other projects but that may be wrong
Z
13:19
Zack
what api? can you give an example of this number?
13:19
amoveo.tools shows the current network hashrate, which is what you would want to know to estimate how profitable your miner would be
13:20
so here, at the moment, it's 14081
Z
13:21
Zack
amoveopool is a mining pool. This is a centralized source of information.
14081 is using scientific notation to encode one way of estimating the hashrate.
13:22
http://159.65.120.84:8080/explorer.html
This open source javascript contacts a full node of Amoveo to ask for an estimate of the current network hashrate. click "update height"
t
13:23
trappist
fantastic I can use that, thanks Zack
t
13:41
trappist
network hashrate increased by ~25% in the last minute, that's fun
13:41
but this gives me exactly what I want: JSON.parse(RestClient.post('http://159.65.120.84:8080', '["f", 1]'))[1][2] * 1_000_000_000
Z
13:42
Zack
https://amoveo.tools/ it didn't increase 25%
that way of estimating isn't exact.
t
13:44
trappist
I almost said more precisely, this estimate increased by 25%
S
15:24
Sy
i first get topblock from one of my nodes to get current diff
15:24
then diff to hashes needed
15:24
function GetHashCountForDifficulty($difficulty)
{
$a = floor($difficulty / 256);
$b = floor($difficulty % 256);

return round((pow(2, $a) * (256 + $b) / 256.0) / 1000 / 1000 / 1000);
}
15:24
then user hashrate
15:25
i think i could also pull block reward by now but it doesnt change often enough ^^
Deleted invited Deleted Account
OK
19:35
O K
In reply to this message
So is veopool's calculator. A little consistency please.
S
20:02
Sy
true 😝
t
23:52
trappist
wow ty @Simon3456
S
23:53
Sy
yw
t
23:53
trappist
@Simon3456 what is that pow() function
23:54
i made that calc because there was none out there, i think we have prettiert ones nowaday ^^
23:54
Deleted Account
other coins can use amove's futarchy market to make decision?
S
23:54
Sy
ah sorry thats /de/ @trappist3 but im sure you can switch language somehow ^^
t
23:54
trappist
yeah I did s/de/en/ 😛
23:55
I thought that was js and pow was a custom function
S
23:55
Sy
ah na, php ^^
t
23:56
trappist
should have realized, I knew your site was php and the calc was server side
MF
23:58
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
yeah
3 January 2019
00:10
Deleted Account
but i guess they may want to use their own i guess, they may not want to depend on other coins.
00:18
Deleted Account
amoveo needs to get turing complete asap, otherwise will be hard to pump
00:20
Deleted Account
it isn't?
00:20
not sure what it means
00:21
Deleted Account
this guy needs turing complete stop making excuses
MF
00:22
Mr Flintstone
veo been turing complete sir
Z
00:22
Zack
In reply to this message
Amoveo smart contracts are already written in a turing complete language. It is called chalang https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/chalang
MF
00:22
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
no mechanism in place for the vast majority of coins to participate in this kind of mechanism as trust minimized as veo
Z
00:23
Zack
In reply to this message
Yes.
Groups of any size can use amoveo to make decisions.
00:25
Deleted Account
anysize?
00:28
i saw 2 coins currenty using vote tokens , or community votes a lot,. i guess they can benefit from it. but they may not try
Z
00:34
Zack
Voting is not a secure mechanism.
00:41
Deleted Account
is goverance of veo onchian or off chain?
00:41
i saw some debates over this
Z
00:42
Zack
It is a mix.
We do the decision making off-chain, then we do the reporting on-chain.
00:42
Deleted Account
some people seems to cricisize onchain, but some believe onchain is better
00:43
i see
t
00:45
trappist
In reply to this message
this reads like you've read Bryan Caplan, or else you've done the same "math" independently
Z
00:46
Zack
In reply to this message
I don't know who that is.
00:47
Oh, some libertarian economist
t
00:47
trappist
who has written a lot about voting, yeah
00:58
Deleted Account
i'm not sure. for now only decred have most developed (built-in?) onchain system,although it's voting. all other coins , if they are using votes, i guess it's mostly offchain votes. i only know 2 coins are using that
t
01:20
trappist
the voting coins I know of have a dpos governance model or something like it, like masternodes, where not just anyone can vote, and voters have a demonstrable stake in the outcome, but I'm not a fan of that either
Z
01:21
Zack
Before writing the OTC trading into the light node, I am planning to review the changes Sy and Denis wrote into their versions of the light node and see if I can add some to the version I am maintaining
01:21
In reply to this message
that still does not work. Voting is just a bad protocol. Down with democracy.
t
01:21
trappist
agreed
01:29
Deleted Account
what i saw is community votes in discord, etc, at early stages that may be fine
01:30
another coin distribute vote tokens to coin holders i'm not sure how it' works both are proof of work coin. i guess for now they are just offchain votes
01:31
In reply to this message
but voting & democracy is what's in use
Z
01:49
Zack
Amoveo uses Futarchy, it works great.
T
01:53
Tromp
In reply to this message
Has there been any other organizations or communities that have tried futarchy in a big scale?
Z
01:53
Zack
Best buy used it to know that blue ray would win.
01:53
The usa electronics store
01:54
Deleted Account
it's not trust free ?
01:54
the way best buy use it?
Z
01:58
Zack
http://www.consensuspoint.com/case-study-employee-personal-tech/
best buy used centralized trustful tools for their prediction market.
01:58
Amoveo makes this technology trustfree and decentralized, that way we can run many more kinds of markets without worry of legal risk.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
02:42
Deleted Account
Hi! Is it possible to create prediction market based on stable coin with amoveo?
Z
02:43
Zack
You can make stable coins in amoveo.
02:43
For one person to short Veo, someone else has to go long.
MF
02:44
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
in theory it is possible to price derivatives in other derivatives but it hasn’t been programmed like this yet. currently what you would need to do is bet in a prediction market denominated in veo then go to a veousd scalar market and short the market value of your position in the PM to hedge the price risk
02:49
while hedging non linear instruments like binary options with linear instruments like CFD isn’t super clean, hedging linear (aapl shares) with linear (veousd) is quite clean
02:49
Deleted Account
It's cool but seems too nerdy for mass market to understand. I expect from users to understand simple app with 2 buttons. "Buy" and "sell".
MF
02:49
Mr Flintstone
yeah, agreed. UX needs to handle this
02:50
I’d be surprised if most use is in usd-stable risk to begin with though, I’d imagine that would come after veo denominated betting is popular anyways
M
06:50
Mike
In reply to this message
Wow, good and very straight forward
H
07:02
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
Deleted joined group by link from Group
22:54
Deleted Account
github says WARNING! do not reuse a pubkey after it has been deleted.
22:54
because replay?
Z
22:55
Zack
The delete account tx removes your account from the consensus state.
If you recreate an account wih the same address, it starts at nonce 0, so any tx can be replayed
22:56
Deleted Account
account is not deleted if balance goes 0
22:56
:)
22:58
light wallet never delete account?
Z
23:08
Zack
I removed all the tools for deleting accounts
23:08
With a full node you can make a delete account tx
23:09
Deleted Account
👍
4 January 2019
Z
01:36
Zack
What if we made a game boy game for Amoveo cold storage?
OK
02:28
O K
In reply to this message
That... Sounds... Cool... Isn't their memory usually dependent on a small battery
S
02:34
Sy
whats the correct value for a node thats not running production?
02:35
{kind, "test"}
02:35
doesnt seem to work ^^
Z
06:06
Zack
In reply to this message
It lasts years.
Just like a normal cold storage, you would have your secret words backed up somewhere.

I bet a gameboy could display a qr code.

The only step I am unsure of is typing in a recipients address to the gameboy.
06:11
A hardware wallet is like $70, and you have to connect it to your computer.
A game boy or a clone is like $40, and it has no way to connect to the Internet.
06:12
I wonder if we could use a dominant assurance contract to have someone write it.
S
06:13
Sy
😂
[
06:14
[Riki]
gameboy partnership??
Z
06:15
Zack
You mean nintendo?

Nintendo doesn't care if we use consoles that they haven't manufactured in over a decade. They won't give us anything for that.
06:16
Game boy cold storage for bitcoin would be awful, because you need to know unspent txids to make a valid tx.
For Amoveo, it could be possible, you only need to know your accounts nonce.
[
06:17
[Riki]
i have a gameboy + original printer and camera
S
06:17
Sy
the gameboy classic is actually not that cheap...
06:18
around 50€+ on ebay in Germany
Z
06:18
Zack
Gameboy color can play game boy games. There are also handheld emulators.
S
07:16
Sy
... so your suggestion for a save cold storage wallet is to use an emulator? how does that make sense?
F
07:47
Fića
In reply to this message
10/10 would buy, even for 70$ that was mentioned as higer price point device in earlier argumentation
OK
07:49
O K
In reply to this message
😂😂😂😂
07:50
Best of
A
07:53
Aries
Wait what
F
08:07
Fića
well apparently there is a brainstorming session on potential innovative cold storage devices for veo
Z
08:12
Zack
In reply to this message
As long as the hardware can't connect to the Internet, and it has a screen that can display qr codes, then it should be fine for cold storage.
I don't see how it makes any difference if we use the original gameboy hardware vs an emulation.
MF
08:16
Mr Flintstone
lmao
Z
08:19
Zack
In reply to this message
I cannot do this. It looks like this hardware is basically an asic for keeping time.
It doesn't have memory to store your private key.
F
08:21
Fića
maybe this casio model with memory could be hacked DBC611G-1D
08:22
but it prolly cant display qr codes since its made to display numbers
Z
08:24
Zack
there are NES emulator handhelds with screens for $15.
Z
10:08
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/issues/4

I did some more planning on how the OTC smart protocols will work in Amoveo. This time I wrote about the experience in detail from the perspectives of each of the participants in the protocol.
10:10
Im usually a bottom-to-top programmer, but I have written enough protocols to know that a certain kind of planning can make it much easier later.
Ben Morgan invited Ben Morgan
t
14:43
trappist
weeks of coding can save hours of planning
k
15:28
kk
In reply to this message
This is interesting, just read it
VIB invited VIB
B
19:28
Ben
just on a side note, the worries about the Dual ETH/VEO Miner will solve itself, due to upcoming fork in ETH Network.
e
20:13
enti
didn't even know there was a dual eth/veo miner
21:18
relevant??
MF
21:37
Mr Flintstone
in general limit orders in continuous markets can be thought of as free american call or put options
21:38
single price batching alleviates this problem which is what veo markets have been coded to use
DV
22:03
Denis Voskvitsov
no new block in 1.5 hours… odd
S
22:08
Sy
yeah
22:08
no errors anywhere either...fun times
22:08
it happens every now and then
22:09
node said i just found one
22:10
and ap too lol...figures
22:10
luck is a b....
Z
23:41
Zack
In reply to this message
This is completely unrelated to cryptocurrency.
A centralized company holding stocks on behalf of their clients. Businesses like this have existed for centuries, and cryptocurrency adds nothing.

On Amoveo you can buy derivatives on Tesla stock. This way you can profit if Tesla succeeds, and you don't have to trust any centralized company, it is trust-free.

Cryptocurrency technology enables trust-free financial contracts, I think it is a scam to call something "crypto" or "cryptocurrency", if it involves trust. False advertising like that is usually illegal.
5 January 2019
Z
01:34
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/issues/4
I made a repository for the messaging part of the protocol, and made a plan on how it will work.
BM
06:10
Ben Morgan
Hey guys, just started mining Veo and I have transactions showing payouts but nothing is registering in the wallet. The light wallet seems to sometimes show the balance but I cannot do anything with it...... am I doing something wrong? I have downloaded the IOS wallet and this shows no balance. Wallet was generated using the light wallet screen. Any help appreciated!
06:39
Deleted Account
Lets crowdfund the mega leak papers with veo 😁 this would be great marketing
S
06:52
Sy
How much do they want?
Z
07:36
Zack
In reply to this message
What is your address?
Which light node did you use?
Did you sync all the headers?
BM
07:48
Ben Morgan
BNL2FfMTIDQssdXp9xAcqnnBFYQkivZDe2DjVMLiwBvU3cs1GbnApr4ZtvVFIkMaDsp8uqM6PWqeelEEpeBO7lM=

http://amoveo.exan.tech

I have ‘clicked’ the update headers button several times - not much seems to happen when I click any o the buttons...... thanks again!
BM
12:12
Ben Morgan
Balance viable on Veoscan but not in any wallet GUI? Anyone got any ideas? Thanks!
Z
12:27
Zack
http://159.65.120.84:8080/wallet.html
This is a light node I am serving.
When I make a read only wallet, it says you have about 0.64 Veo
12:27
When you load the private key, does it say the correct address?
BM
12:33
Ben Morgan
Yep. I have tried the google extension wallet, the myveowallet.com and the IOS wallet. Interestingly the veoscan website does not do anything on my computer when I plug in the wallet address in either chrome or IE. if I use brave browser it does work and shows the balance. This makes me think local PC issues however the balance does not show up in the IOS wallet on my phone either...... I am perplexed.
Z
12:55
Zack
I wrote this light node.
http://159.65.120.84:8080/wallet.html

I can't help with veoscan, or the phone apps, or exan.tech.

Here is the version you can download and run on your own computer https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo
BM
12:57
Ben Morgan
Thanks, think I have figured this out. I am using the wrong private key. Great support and I have now learned a lot!! Thanks!!
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6 January 2019
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7 January 2019
Boris invited Boris
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8 January 2019
v
01:10
vavanu4
In reply to this message
Unfortunately, my attempts to launch a miner failed. Miner crash on Nvidia and AMD. Windows 10, latest drivers, 1070 and 580 cards in rigs. With AmveoMinerMan Nvidia works.
OK
01:11
O K
Try veominer for amd and for zrank support there is a discord channel where you can reach the dev (same with other miners, AMM and Veominer)
T
01:39
The Ancients
@Vavanu4 the zRank miner has a bug currently on RX580's try the others like OK has suggested like Pham's Miner
v
01:40
vavanu4
OK. 10x to all. Wl be test.
Z
02:35
Zack
http://139.59.144.76:8080/explorer.html
looks like some people made bets in the futarchy market
MF
03:08
Mr Flintstone
nice
03:20
Deleted Account
tbh not many people even know how to make bet :)
03:45
Deleted Account
its nice to have very barebones light node
03:45
going through stuff with it is educational
03:52
cold storage, hot wallet, betting, even messaging
03:52
cool stuff
03:53
or encryption
Z
03:53
Zack
There is a lot there, but not many people are able to use the current interfaces.
03:53
Deleted Account
yes
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Deleted joined group by link from Group
Z
11:45
Zack
We can overcome a big limitation with maker.
Our stable coin contracts can have margins customized for the customer's needs.
Maker uses a one-size-fits-all solution of 1.5x margins, which is too high for some, and too low for others.

Additionally, our stablecoin can eventually be put through any Veo channel, you don't have to make separate channels for different kinds of assets.
ДМ
12:41
Димитрий МДФ ТЕХНО ФАСАД
In reply to this message
Good day! What do you think about integration Amoveo in game industry?
I think, that 2019 may be year of game industry in crypto. Looks like 2017 was year of ICO
JM
12:41
Jack Metaverse
A
12:52
Al
In reply to this message
This is kinda cool.. so we are getting x100 on dec 31 and that would take veo to top 20 coins..
ДМ
13:23
Димитрий МДФ ТЕХНО ФАСАД
In reply to this message
Why do you think so?
A
13:25
Al
In reply to this message
analytics of development etc
ДМ
13:27
Димитрий МДФ ТЕХНО ФАСАД
In reply to this message
Where can I see that analytics?
A
13:33
Al
In reply to this message
Друг мой, ну пройдите в этот твиттер - там даже ссылка есть, почитайте его методологию, почему вы у меня спрашиваете?
ДМ
13:34
Димитрий МДФ ТЕХНО ФАСАД
In reply to this message
Если Вы отвечаете за автора поста, стало быть, резонно, что свой вопрос я адресую к Вам?
A
13:38
Al
In reply to this message
Это же была очевидная шутка..
ДМ
13:39
Димитрий МДФ ТЕХНО ФАСАД
In reply to this message
Слишком тонкий юмор для меня, увы)
A
13:40
Al
In reply to this message
Ну это очевидно глупый прогноз, рынок не видит такого движения в этом году, прогноз для монеты в x100 с учетом текущей 4кк..
ДМ
14:08
Димитрий МДФ ТЕХНО ФАСАД
In reply to this message
Спасибо, кэп)
A
14:10
Al
In reply to this message
Все пожалуйста морячок
15:40
Deleted Account
😂😂😅
SS
16:42
Spike Spiegel
How governance variable change works?
Say if somebody is making bet for change and the change won't be accepted then he loses the money?
S
16:49
Sy
yes
16:49
you put your money where your moth is
SS
16:52
Spike Spiegel
So let's say i bet 1 veo and somebody is giving 0.5 against the motion then it's 0.5 in unmatched for?

But if I win then other side will lose?

When the motion is actually decided?
16:52
There is final block to decide?
16:53
Also people winning are getting money from people losing?
16:54
#stupid questions maybe but I think if I understand this I can explain it in much simpler terms
17:01
What will prevent people from playing attrition games?
17:03
1) Say I prove that I own X btc or veo
2) Commit to outbidding strategy
3) Announce the strategy so people won't be bidding against
4) Win the motion by epsilon
S
17:05
Sy
its basic matching
17:05
you put 1 veo on your decision
17:05
someone else bets 0.5 they instantly loose that 0.5 since you are still 0.5 ahead on your side
17:05
after 1000 (or was it 2000?) blocks of the oracle start an oracle can be closed
17:06
unless it changed direction, then its another 1000
17:06
whatever side wins will have all matched veo doubled
17:06
unmatched are just returned
SS
17:06
Spike Spiegel
Whoa, it's beautifully simple
17:06
this was the most interesting one
17:07
i didnt program the current state and balance so you have to do that one by yourself
17:07
but basicly someone bet 1 veo to decrease block reward, someone else bet 2 veo on unchanged so there is 1 on unchanged now and so on
17:07
until it escalated a bit xD
SS
17:09
Spike Spiegel
2,634 in unmatched
S
17:09
Sy
all bets are instantly matched so if you bet 100 on decrease, someone bets 101 on increase there is only 1 veo left the third person can bet just 2 on unchanged to switch again, you dont have to match 101 nor 100, just 1
17:09
yeah
17:09
i think veo was around 200$ at that time? like i said, you put your money where your mouth is ^^
17:09
Deleted Account
how to distribute the winnings among the winners.
S
17:10
Sy
half a million oracle
17:10
no distribution
17:10
you get matched and double or you get your coins back
17:10
early birds special :)
17:11
you DO have to run a fullnode to participate in oracles tho...but since you want to change core mechanics i think thats a fair requirement

normal betting is easier and possible via light node once someone has set it up
SS
17:11
Spike Spiegel
Oracle Initial Liquidity - 0.33826071 veo
is that same requirement for gov variables?
17:12
Deleted Account
got it, simple but powerful, thanks.
SS
17:14
Spike Spiegel
"DO have to run a fullnode" - you have to be 100% time online?
S
17:38
Sy
you usually want to run a full node from a vserver or something that is connected to the internet
17:38
otherwise you cant say synced anyway
SS
19:12
Spike Spiegel
Can you:
1. Place a bet
2. Disconnect?
3. Reconnect from time to time to see status and do something?
DV
19:26
Denis Voskvitsov
you can. just stay synced when you place a bet or check the current state
S
19:29
Sy
you can sync...yes
you cant stay synced
19:29
peers dont talk with you so you have to sync:start() sync up, probably switch to sync_mode:normal(). do your stuff and you are out of sync again
19:30
you dont need to sync to see status, just use a lightnode or the explorer, you only need to sync again at the end to claim Kacper Wikieł
Z
21:03
Zack
In reply to this message
Yes
[
21:39
[Riki]
has anyone noticed anything since the dual eth+veo miner is out? some people had concerns, hence i ask
21:39
amoveo hashrate has not changed much
itburnz invited itburnz
9 January 2019
S
00:16
Sy
no impact imho
00:16
fpgas did more but new bitstreams got released today so i think many left
Z
02:01
Zack
https://veoscan.io/account/BI6HnXdyxaxh4mwcCE43pyzLPd3O8VnVvE4YVZPzdwWc779ovO0kF%2FR05ucTQDkh1g%2BZmYJUwRySyN0EuLCM2Yg%3D

Whoever's owns this address, please contact me.
I messed up the market, I have to close our channel manually.
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13:59
Deleted Account
are there any other competitors to AMOVEO?
S
21:19
Sy
did someone decode the proofs in block yet? im looking for a way to get current fees
21:20
i think there was a website that lists all gov values
MF
21:24
Mr Flintstone
veo.sh
А
21:26
Андрюхин
In reply to this message
CAn you share a link with new bitstream ? )
S
21:51
Sy
In reply to this message
they arent for veo...
А
21:52
Андрюхин
oh, got you. I misunderstand your message.
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A
23:18
Al
In reply to this message
Thank you my dear Zack
10 January 2019
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11 January 2019
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03:37
Deleted Account
What should happen if ProgPOW lead to a fork in ETH? Not entirely unheard of imho...
Z
03:38
Zack
Our oracle should probably follow whichever side of the fork is worth more
04:30
Deleted Account
hhmm cant make channel with 139.59.144.76?
Z
04:33
Zack
In reply to this message
it should work now.
I forgot to delete your channel data from last time.
04:40
BTW how to explain that even if there exist way to deal with something people don't actually use it? And use something obviously worse?
04:41
"Yes, many governance variations do not seem to have been tried much, but that seems mostly due to a lack of interest. I can’t get people to do futarchy experiments, even though it could be tried in organizations of most any size."

http://www.overcomingbias.com/2017/05/im-not-seaing-it.html

Seems like futarchy / amoveo will die/perish not due to bugs / fundamental insecure mechanism but rather complete lack of interest / apathy
04:44
Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door is no longer true as marketing seems out-weight objective quality criteria
04:57
Deleted Account
channel open but get internal server error when betting hhmm
05:21
Deleted Account
maybe amoveo users are not apathetic about amoveo
05:21
😊
05:23
all sort of contracts talking about amoveo maybe starting point
05:24
listings, famous people advertising etc, yes they were tried
05:25
but not really
05:26
but someone need write dominance assurance contracts and ui for them etc :)
M⛏
05:41
Moe ⛏
In reply to this message
Mousetraps are simple to use. Once the UX improves, I think we will see this happen
Z
07:29
Zack
In reply to this message
Robin is talking about why people aren't using futarchy.

Futarchy is just one very new kind of derivative.
Other kinds of derivatives, like betting on the price of oil, are some of the biggest markets on earth.

Even if futarchy never becomes popular, even if amoveo could only be used for trading derivatives on the price of gas, Amoveo could still end up worth tens of billions.

Amoveo can be used for trading any kind of derivative, so we don't have to worry if some individual kind of derivative is not so popular.

Futarchy is an exciting experiment that holds a lot of potential, but it probably won't make amoveo huge or get anyone rich.
The potential of futarchy is that people will stop arguing so much, and make better decisions for humanity.
Z
09:07
Zack
I am adding a configuration option to customize where the full node will store blocks and keys
EA
09:33
Eric Arsenault
In reply to this message
I agree, marketing and business strategy play a huge role in success. On the other hand, there might be economic reasons for a prediction site like Veil to switch from Augur to Amoveo if it could make them more money, or make it cheaper for people to participate
09:49
The absolute minimal valuation of Augur / Amoveo / something else should be at least higher than sum of total money at stake
09:50
It's just demand for augur prediction markets (and augur has comparably good marketing) is still low
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H
16:05
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
Bro can you send whats the use of veo?
[
20:26
[Riki]
In reply to this message
See pinned msg
H
20:40
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
In reply to this message
Thanks
J
21:48
Jeans
21:48
Amoveo could become a small square
T
21:49
Tromp
Will*
12 January 2019
EP
00:08
Evans Pan
https://veil.co/ Veil got very nice funding in the bear market. Anyone want to do the same for Amoveo can learn from its funding model.
MF
00:35
Mr Flintstone
looks like they got funded to provide liquidity on augur markets as well as build a better UX
00:37
there isn’t too much written on how it works though. Like it looks like they want to gate UX use for reg reasons, but isn’t the liquidity still available at the blockchain level?
00:37
that is probably the more important aspect of veil (liquidity) vs the UX but we will see
Z
00:38
Zack
looks like veil is running a centralized oracle.
MF
00:38
Mr Flintstone
they say they are using the augur oracle for reporting
Z
00:38
Zack
https://veil.co/feeds
MF
00:39
Mr Flintstone
maybe they just use this as the level they will provide liquidity at in the smart contract
00:39
but it is kinda weird, I didn’t see that page
Z
00:41
Zack
if they raised money, then they must have some expectation of generating profit
00:41
"providing liquidity", does this mean they are planning to profit by making bets in Augur?
00:42
It seems to me like Veil is advertising itself as a very different product to different audiences, and whatever their real business plan is, it is still secret.
MF
00:42
Mr Flintstone
i think it is market making as well as providing exit liquidity in exchange for oracle settlement risk
00:43
is how they recoup the investment
Z
00:43
Zack
I bet they want a centralized derivatives platform like Intrade, and this blockchain stuff is just a marketing thing to make it easier to raise money
00:43
what is "exit liquidity"?
00:43
like if the result is known, but the oracle hasn't expired?
MF
00:43
Mr Flintstone
when the event has happened but the oracle hasn’t settled
00:43
yeah
Z
00:43
Zack
Can't anyone do that though?
Why invest in veil, if you could do that personally?
AK
00:44
A K
In reply to this message
what exactly did they get, can you share?
MF
00:45
Mr Flintstone
yeah you could do it yourself. though it requires a large capital base that can absorb losses and expertise
00:45
so it might make more sense for the investors to syndicate the risk effectively by forming a company to do it
00:46
idk, the regulatory considerations are a red flag to me along with their veiled ether and the fact that it isn’t completely clear if it’s trust minimized but the UX isn’t or if it’s all trusted
Z
00:46
Zack
you think the Oracle will break sometimes, and Veil will lose millions?
MF
00:46
Mr Flintstone
the oracle may not break but they might be wrong about the outcome
00:47
disputed oracles in augur have people that think both sides should win sometimes
00:47
same with any oracle
00:47
like the republicans vs Democrats house election market on augur
Z
00:48
Zack
letting people leave early once the result is known is a lot different from gambling in a market when the result is not yet known.
You can tell because once the result is known, the price stays ~ 0.99
MF
00:49
Mr Flintstone
except there is an implicit spread over the interest rate of veo that embeds the oracle settlement risk
00:49
it will never price 0 settlement risk
Z
00:49
Zack
there is some spread because of the cost of leaving your money locked up for a period of time
MF
00:49
Mr Flintstone
I mean a spread over that
00:49
that is your compensation for locking up your money
00:49
there is an additional spread that has settlement risk
Z
00:52
Zack
I don't see how having a large capital base would help in this business
00:52
if you split up your money into the markets in the same percentages, you will earn the same percentage profit
00:53
there are already plenty of people running automatic trading software on blockchains, this is just one more app
00:54
if you give all your money to a centralized institution like Veil, then you have legal costs, legal risks, and the risk that Veil will run off with your money, and a loss of privacy.
00:55
it reminds me of all those centralized "crypto banks", where you trust someone to invest in altcoins for you.
MF
00:58
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
selling liquidity is like selling insurance. you are effectively selling options. Insurance business form large capital bases
00:58
idk, I am not a veil expert, just giving what I *hope* their business model is
ryota T invited ryota T
Z
01:52
Zack
If it was a small enough number of investors, I guess teaming up and hiring some experts could increase their profit.
Z
05:51
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/config/sys.config.tmpl#L19
I added a configuration option so you can customize where the blocks and stuff are stored.
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S
21:15
Sy
i take bets now which are ppl and which are bots 😝
H
21:15
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
Lol 😂
T
21:28
Tromp
If they are bots they have cook names lol
S
21:31
Sy
random namelist ^^
13 January 2019
SS
02:24
Spike Spiegel
Minimal amount of veo necessary to try to change gov variable is 0.33826071?
Z
02:27
Zack
if you immediately make the first bet, and you correctly guess how the network will decide to upgrade, then you get all that money back.
04:38
Deleted Account
Wow, I got a mention!
04:41
After reading, I am thinking this: There is no incentive to parttake in betting if you believe you are not the most informed participant. At the same time, the people benefiting from getting «the fortune read» are getting the results of the market for free.
04:43
My take is that before the markets open, there should be a phase where people would pay a feed-in contribution. This sum is allocated to people placing orders in the market.
04:45
An example algorithm would be to split according to winning or losing bets placed as orders in the market (as opposed to taking orders out of the market), and only orders that were matched
04:48
In this way all behavior is rewarded: placing orders (reward feed-in), matching open orders (the placed orders are suboptimally priced) and finding truths (you have to pay to reveal valuable info)
Z
06:09
Zack
There is a lot of history of research into markets.
If someone really wants to find out information, they might subsidize liquidity in a market to incentivize others to reveal the information.
06:30
Deleted Account
yeah that works too I guess
06:32
Though maybe more expensive than my approach. If the market has large volume the feed-in approaches zero. For small volumes feed-in is large. Also feed-in doesnt skew the look of the order book directly
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H
10:33
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
Why we have testnet? Are we changing algo?
Z
10:34
Zack
Sy wanted a testnet.
OK
10:34
O K
Lots of people wanted a testnet
10:34
It will be good for pushing changes safely and will allow people to test the markets with little risk
H
13:29
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
What will happen after testnet?
OK
13:30
O K
What will happen after bitcoin's testnet?
13:30
It's just a playground
S
14:48
Sy
Every serious software development got testing and stable, thats how it is done
H
15:07
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
Oh i see. Sorry for noob question
H
18:01
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
What happen to CMC?
S
18:01
Sy
they dont care i guess
H
18:05
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
😭
J
18:08
Joshua
The testnet helped a lot tbh 😊
Deleted invited Deleted Account
21:52
Deleted Account
Are all oracles public?
21:54
I am a contractor looking to implement this in my business
22:00
There are two of us working together. We would like to view the contractor agreement as an investment contract and write true and false statements about the timeline and scope of work to handle the movement of funds as the project progresses.
A
22:02
Al
In reply to this message
Zack
22:03
Deleted Account
Our hope is this could be preferable to bonding and insuring.
22:04
From what we've read so far it seems this was built for this.
22:05
I have some limited programming knowledge and are both willing to put in the work
Z
22:09
Zack
In reply to this message
Yes
22:10
In reply to this message
Amoveo is for financial derivatives. I'm not sure what you want to make.
22:11
Deleted Account
Amoveo isn't for raising funds for projects?
Z
22:12
Zack
Amoveo can support dominant assurance contracts, which are to pay for the creation of public goods.
Are you making a public good?
22:14
Deleted Account
Yes
22:16
It doesn't support private investment contracts?
22:21
Home owner wants garage. We give quote. They accept. They make deposit. We start. Complete a portion of work get paid, repeat until complete. Except this requires a lot of trust, people get screwed all the time, and the mechanisms for recovering your money are worthless.
22:23
Home owners will screw contractors and vice versa and after 2 years in court with a judgement you are largely left to collect on your own
22:28
I know you have financial derivatives in mind for what you are targeting but I guess im asking if this could be covered here as well. A contractor agreement derives its value from the underlying materials and labor and makes true and false statements about the future that need enforcement no?
23:02
Deleted Account
Is there no investor in VEO?
23:02
Z
23:02
Zack
In reply to this message
Amoveo cannot be used for that.
How will the Oracle know if the garage was built?

You can only ask the Oracle about things that are easy for anyone to look up.
23:03
Deleted Account
The home owner signs off on its completion
Z
23:04
Zack
If the home owner voluntarily signs off, then why use amoveo at all?
The home owners could voluntarily pay in cash.
23:05
Deleted Account
Because of the rest of the project
23:06
Pay deposit cash and contractor leaves
23:06
Or never shows up
Z
23:07
Zack
If the home owner has complete control over whether the contractor gets paid, then why make a deposit at all? The home owner could just leave it as cash in their pocket until they are ready to pay.
23:07
If the contractor doesn't show, then don't hand the cash to them.
23:08
Deleted Account
Ok shows up and does 25% of the work and never comes back
Z
23:09
Zack
So let's imagine there was an Oracle asking if your garage is built, but it is only 25% built.
Someone in China wants to participate as a reporter in the Oracle.
What will they tell the blockchain about your garage?
23:10
It seems to me that they will mark your garage question as bad. Since no one can look up anything about your garage.
23:11
Deleted Account
put it on camera? And stream it's construction?
23:11
Lol
Z
23:11
Zack
Just because there is a video of someone building a garage doesn't mean anything about whether your property has a garage
23:12
Deleted Account
Verify permits and inspections with third parties?
23:13
That's all public information
Z
23:13
Zack
If someone posts info online, you can bet on what info will get posted sure.
23:14
That is easy for anyone to look up
23:18
Deleted Account
Right so the bet on an inspector posting pass fail on an inspection?
Z
23:18
Zack
You can bet on info posted on websites.
23:23
Deleted Account
a series of bets on invoices and inspection information that leads to the completion of a garage?
Z
23:24
Zack
If someone leaves you a receipt, this isn't something that can easily be looked up by users. We can't ask the Oracle about that
23:24
You can bet on anything that you can ask the Oracle about.
You can ask the Oracle about any information which eventually will be easy to look up.
23:25
I can ask the Oracle the price of gold, but I can't ask the Oracle the color of my t-shirt.
C
23:26
Chris 🍞
In reply to this message
you can try 😆
23:28
Deleted Account
I can ask if something has been paid or not?
23:28
Deleted Account
think about the huge misinformation war wether the garage has been built
23:29
money at stake keeps growing
MF
23:29
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
needs to be public
Z
23:30
Zack
For example, of we wanted to bet on a football game.
We would set up the Oracle so it would resolve after the football game is over.
Once the football game is over, then it is easy for us to look up who won the football game so we can report to the Oracle who won, that way the Oracle can know who won.

The Oracle can't resolve until after the football game is over.
23:30
You can ask whether a particular tx exists on a particular blockchain.

You can't ask the Oracle whether your friend handed you a $20 bill yesterday.
23:33
Deleted Account
Ok I use square to send invoices and customers pay by card. Can I ask questions about it's API or use its api to leave information in a blockchain to ask questions about?
23:34
Deleted Account
i think every quastion possible should be on amoveo
23:34
ik gonna fork
23:34
im
Z
23:34
Zack
If you are being paid by square, then what are you using amoveo for?
I thought your goal was to use a contract to get paid and minimize trust.
C
23:35
Chris 🍞
👆😂👍😎
23:36
Deleted Account
Yes it is. I am trying to go from how it works now to another way
23:36
And trying to bridge that conceptually
Z
23:36
Zack
I seriously doubt that your customers want to mess around with a blockchain just to pay you to build a garage.
23:36
Deleted Account
They don't need to know it involves it
Z
23:37
Zack
Being paid in cash is best, so there is less record and you can avoid tax.
23:37
Deleted Account
Lol
C
23:37
Chris 🍞
you could use an oracle to have people pay by card, through "some" system that automaticly uses a dex to turn it into your crypto of choice,
The oracle can tell if all tx's have been confirmed.
23:38
Deleted Account
You clearly have never stood in front of a home owner and asked for cash
Z
23:38
Zack
If the person paying you to build the garage doesn't know the blockchain is being used, then which aspect of trust are you reducing?
There are only 2 participants, you and the customer.
If the customer doesn't use the blockchain, then it is only you.
Do you have trouble trusting yourself? You need a blockchain to enforce relationships with yourself?
23:39
Deleted Account
Especially talking $15,000 to $70,000 projects
Z
23:40
Zack
In reply to this message
No.
C
23:40
Chris 🍞
what part am I missing?
MF
23:40
Mr Flintstone
if there is a local government I would recommend using public records from their website for the entire oracle process
Z
23:41
Zack
In reply to this message
Just because your business has a problem doesn't mean that Amoveo is the tool to solve it.
Amoveo is for financial derivatives, not for convincing home owners to trust you with tens of thousands of dollars.
MF
23:41
Mr Flintstone
if there is a local government with the right kinds of record keeping*
Z
23:44
Zack
In reply to this message
The Oracle can't look up your private financial information about whether you made a payment.
23:44
Deleted Account
That's not what i'm trying to do with it. The point was about cash in those amounts. Home owners don't go pull thousands in cash out of the bank.
Z
23:45
Zack
In reply to this message
If people don't want to buy your service, making them use an altcoin won't help.
C
23:45
Chris 🍞
In reply to this message
thats right, but the steps after this can be verified with an oracle.
this automaticly makes it able to verify the first transaction even though its in the private sphere
23:46
Deleted Account
It's not a matter of them not wanting to buy my service
Z
23:46
Zack
In reply to this message
So you are saying that people will trade altcoins using a dex?

Yes, people already do that.
23:48
In reply to this message
So you are asking if amoveo could be useful to solve a problem, and that problem is "not a matter of not wanting them to buy your service"?

This is a troll, right?
23:48
Deleted Account
What?
C
23:49
Chris 🍞
In reply to this message
i'm talking about his case, he obviously want people to pay by card but recieve some form of crypto in return.
Z
23:49
Zack
In reply to this message
Please don't spam this channel with jokes. This is a place to discuss amoveo.
23:49
Deleted Account
Im not
23:49
This is really actually disappointing
23:50
Im genuinely trying to apply this
T
23:50
Tromp
I dont think he is joking Zack , you guys are just having a dissagreement its normal
23:50
Deleted Account
Thinks your tech is cool, trying to apply it
23:50
You're just turning me off to the whole thing
Z
23:51
Zack
In reply to this message
Just because it is cool doesn't mean it is useful for your job.
23:51
You can't use amoveo to cook your breakfast
23:52
Amoveo is for derivatives.
23:53
Deleted Account
And could be used to enforce contracts between homeowners and contractors i believe
OK
23:54
O K
In reply to this message
Classic
23:54
Deleted Account
But i guess ill just stop trying to apply it to anything else
Z
23:55
Zack
Amoveo can only do contracts with information that oracles can provide.
Oracles can only provide information that can be easily looked up by anyone.
23:56
Deleted Account
escalation dynamics will lead any question to be easily looked up by anyone
23:56
#forkit
Z
23:57
Zack
In reply to this message
I just flipped a coin.
Was it heads or tails?
Use escalation dynamics if needed.
23:58
Deleted Account
hhmm
23:58
ok
23:58
heads u win
Z
23:58
Zack
Would you bet $1000 on that?
23:59
Deleted Account
yeah thats too extreme situation
23:59
any situation where deep investigation can lead to truth coming out
23:59
Deleted Account
I can easily look up all the information about a construction agreement
14 January 2019
MF
00:00
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
can anyone else look it up easily as well?
00:00
Deleted Account
Yes
00:00
Or could be made to
Z
00:01
Zack
Whoever controls a website about garages in a neiborhood, they could lie on their website. People could bribe them to lie.

Why not just give them the money, and have them pay for the garage once it is built.
Since you are trusting them either way.
I
00:02
Instinct
In reply to this message
😂
Z
00:03
Zack
In reply to this message
I don't know how to run your business, neither is this the place to discuss that.
This is a forum about amoveo.
00:07
This is a place to discuss amoveo, i will ban you if you keep talking about other things here.
00:08
Deleted Account
Yeah im trying tobhave that discussion
00:10
Seems youre not interested in the applications of your own technology in other areas. Im telling you there is a problem in our space and that ive had discussions with other contractors and we think this could help
00:11
Seems you dont want to listen
00:12
The questions you are asking don't happen. They are not real world. The best you can do right now is sue and hope to collect or someone pays
00:13
Your examples that you write about seem asking applicable
00:14
This is for the enforcement of contacts right? I write contracts that i need enforced.
Z
00:15
Zack
You know the limitations of oracles, so either you should make a realistic scenario of how they can be used in your business, or you should realize that they cannot be used in your business.
00:17
In reply to this message
Amoveo has financial derivative type contracts over publicly available information.

Not arbitrary contracts.
You can't enforce intellectual property with amoveo.
You can't enforce debt.
You can't use private information from witnesses.
00:24
Deleted Account
I am trying to turn the contactor agreement into something enforceable by amoveo because current mechanisms for recourse if someone fails on their obligations sucks. I want to provide another option for home owners and contractors to choose over licensing bonding insuring and the court system
00:26
And the contractor agreement is flexible so i can reimagine it
00:28
My father is still trying to collect on insurance after a judgment on a roofer from 3 years ago
Z
00:29
Zack
in a court system you can call witnesses and use private information. It is a lot easier to prove something to a jury than it is to prove it to the Amoveo oracle.
00:30
If your dad can't collect on roofer insurance, I don't see how Amoveo would help him.
00:30
Deleted Account
Yeah but the court is completely ineffective at providing any remedy
00:30
They just say you're right good luck getting your money
00:31
Doesnt matter what i prove to the court
Z
00:32
Zack
What, did he get injured?
It is basically impossible to prove to an Amoveo Oracle that you have a broken bone or whatever
00:33
Deleted Account
No the contractor did not perform. In your documentation you write about what you can do to protect your funds if someone disappears right?
Z
00:34
Zack
If the community raises money for a public good, like some new software to be created, then we can ask an oracle if the software was created.
It is easy for us all to use google to find out if the software exists, so this is something that the Amoveo Oracle can know.
So Amoveo smart contracts can know if the software exists, and they can give different people the money depending on this.
00:35
How do I use google to find out if the contractor did not perform?
00:36
Amoveo contracts depend on the users being willing to leave money locked up inside of them.
Traditional legal contracts can similarly involve a trusted arbiter to hold the money during the contract.
It sounds to me like your employment contracts are not currently using a trusted arbiter, which makes me think that your users will not be interested in leaving so much money locked up in the contract for such a long amount of time.
00:48
Deleted Account
If one person issues a solo close?
00:51
You could learn about a contractor leaving no?
00:52
In your section about options you talk about only one of the 2 participants in the relationship needs to be trusted and needing to lock up funds
00:54
When a person signs the agreement they are mentally locking up and allocating those funds anyway
Z
00:58
Zack
Options are not suitable here, your situation has trust in 2 directions.
The contractor is trusting to get paid for the work.
The homeowner is trusting that work will get done for payment.
00:59
If one person does a solo close, that just puts their contract on-chain.
It doesn't help the Oracle learn anything.
01:10
Deleted Account
I see
01:16
Can an oracle get information from an on chain contract? Can i make an oracle about an oracle?
Z
01:47
Zack
Anything on chain is public information. You can ask the Oracle about it.

You can ask the Oracle about on-chain data from any blockchain.
etag invited etag
01:59
Deleted Account
The contract being solo closed is recorded on chain? Could i include something in the contract the oracle could learn about the nature of a solo close as it pertains to that particular contract?
Z
02:00
Zack
You could, but it never makes sense to do something like that.
There are cheaper ways to timestamp signed data.
02:04
Deleted Account
For example?
02:06
So technically amoveo can handle what i'm trying to do so long as i make what it needs publicly available
Z
02:37
Zack
In reply to this message
If the public can easily tell whether the garage was built, then you can ask the Oracle and build the contract.
S
04:34
Sy
Seems kinda pointless so since only locals can check if the garage was built or not which would reduce the amoveo user to probably one...you xD
Deleted joined group by link from Group
04:52
Deleted Account
Where would the home for this use case be then?
05:53
Deleted Account
just write a contract in ethereum using a deposit and a trusted third party.
05:53
Kind of vanilla. But notice the use of trusted third party, Amoveo is trustless, so your use case is hard to implement.
Z
08:19
Zack
2 of 3 multisig on bitcoin is popular for escrow
SS
08:35
Spike Spiegel
You don't need escrow for such kind of projects
08:39
You can use this
08:39
08:41
Here is explanation how it works: https://cryptoprimitive.github.io/toastycoin-frontier/gametheory.html

Since it's burning token (in toastycoin ethereum) it would be benefitial to port such thing to Amoveo to create simple "Fiverr like marketplace for gigs"
- to get task done you deposit money (veo) into channel or something
- person willing to perform a task is depositing money as well
- either all money is going to worker or it's burned
Deleted invited Deleted Account
13:02
Deleted Account
I dont think someone paying for a garage would use that
B
14:43
Ben
so how much is a garage? i need one :P
22:56
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Why not?
22:57
In reply to this message
Depends. Size, materials, style, how much it costs to fly us wherever you are lo
15 January 2019
T
00:41
The Ancients
daed project?
rッ
00:41
rot ッ
In reply to this message
Absolutely not
T
00:42
The Ancients
oh okay seems quiet on the discord and no real updates from the developer 🤷‍♂️
00:42
no exchanges no cmc
DV
00:43
Denis Voskvitsov
six exchanges at least: https://amoveo.io/wheretobuy/
AK
00:43
A K
6 exchanges
00:43
2 of them in CMC, application in process
T
00:43
The Ancients
i mean real exchanges
00:43
those are small random ones i never heard of
AK
00:43
A K
ah
00:43
you have trouble buying veo?
T
00:43
The Ancients
no im mining it just getting worried
00:44
community support in this coin is non-existent
00:44
usually coins that do well have strong support behind it
AK
00:44
A K
no ICO no bag holders that’s why )
T
00:44
The Ancients
😅
AK
00:45
A K
a lot of ICOd projects have thousands trying to rationalize their poor decision :)
T
00:45
The Ancients
no, thats not it ive seen multiple pow coins that have big supports
AK
00:45
A K
Raven?
00:45
Beam? Grin?
T
00:45
The Ancients
bittube? turtle?
00:45
ya those too
AK
00:45
A K
eh
T
00:45
The Ancients
all have big communities
AK
00:45
A K
trtl bittube snow suqa
00:45
dunno
T
00:45
The Ancients
snow's community isn't that great
AK
00:45
A K
don’t like any of them compared to veo
T
00:46
The Ancients
but what im saying is
00:46
its non-existent in amoveo and makes me wonder why
AK
00:46
A K
agree, veo is small but high quality
T
00:46
The Ancients
its not like a new coin either now its been 1 year i think
AK
00:47
A K
Suqa had a vibrant commuynity from the very beginning
T
00:47
The Ancients
kinda making me question myself if i should keep mining this
AK
00:47
A K
dunno maybe the coin is run by marketing pros
T
00:47
The Ancients
ya but thats just the initial hype that happened in amoveo also
00:47
happens in all coins but the aftermath from the pnd
AK
00:47
A K
so let’s see suqa in a year i guess )))
00:48
Raven is a better example, buuuut
00:48
but but but it’s run by Overstock basically
00:48
who knows who much money they pumped into it behind the scenes
00:48
(for the benefit of community ofc, still)
T
00:48
The Ancients
turtlecoin was basically made on 4chan and its community is strong as hell though
00:48
with no marketing
00:48
i think it recently 5x'd or something
00:48
maybe more
AK
00:48
A K
well like DOGE back in the days
[
00:49
[Riki]
In reply to this message
The community built nearly everything outside of github code 🙄
T
00:49
The Ancients
verge was like that too i remember
AK
00:49
A K
still DOGE is used just to do transfers between exchanges , that’s all ) VEO has much higher ambitions
T
00:49
The Ancients
ya ive been reading up but it confuses me too be honest
00:49
almost all crypto's in general confuse me
AK
00:50
A K
well, it took ETH 3 years, Monero 3 years, etc. i too ofc wish VEO had more followers and users.
00:50
but the “core” “og” ppl here though are of the nicest and the smartest i’ve seen in crypto
T
00:51
The Ancients
as the sayings goes
00:51
go where the nerds go
00:51
😂
00:52
Will see if it was a good decision i have alot of this coin just my confidence is rattled recently
00:52
just so quiet
00:52
been hearing alot of FUD on this coin too
AK
00:52
A K
short term hope for CMC
00:52
Zack submitted application, 2 exchange listings are there
T
00:52
The Ancients
saying its a 1 man army, guy whos just out to get vengance on AE and Augur
00:53
Wasn't that like 2 weeks ago?
00:53
i remember reading it on discord
AK
00:53
A K
last year )
T
00:53
The Ancients
2 week sounds better
00:53
lol
Z
01:51
Zack
Futarchy is like a religion to me. We need it to guide us to a peaceful coexistence, to end the violence.
Working with ae or augur would have prevented me from focusing on building something that is capable of hosting futarchy.
R
02:10
Robot085
Who knows. What is the problem with the server? All Rigs is disabled. Veopool.pw
S
02:11
Sy
nothing, pool restarted
02:11
but no mining questions in telegram
R
02:15
Robot085
In reply to this message
Ok, thx.
Rastimonac joined group by link from Group
05:37
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Because it doesnt make sense to normal people to burn money rather than getting a refund.
05:38
Deleted Account
How do you get a refund?
05:41
Deleted Account
I dont know. I was just pointing out that I dont think your concept for financing garages is very good. Thats all I will say in the matter. You could evaluate that or not, its free advice after all
06:07
Deleted Account
Q: I read ETH state channels could have zero transactions. This is useful for a situation where two users must make a deposit, but when the contract resolves, no money changes hands? How could this possibly be safe? Did I misunderstand?
06:07
New in Constantinople that is
Z
07:15
Zack
I think that could be useful for some advanced form of proof of existence.
If you want to publish some cryptographic checksum along with 2 parties signatures, and have some guarantee that this is the most recent version of the checksum that they both agreed with.
It gives a little more privacy to proof of existence, and decreases how much data is put on-chain.
07:16
You can make channels with practically zero veo in amoveo to do the same.
MF
07:48
Mr Flintstone
gonna be testing out scalar markets on the testnet later today if anyone wants to try them out. you can run an amoveo full node on aws in their free tier btw
08:59
Deleted Account
Hi guys. Amoveobook.com does not show current markets. Is it a problem of Amoveobook or Amoveo network?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
10:24
Zack
In reply to this message
They only run markets they want to run
10:24
Centralized market with decentralized enforcement
10:27
Deleted Account
In December, you said that you planning an update in Amoveo network during which all markets will be closed for some period
Z
10:27
Zack
Already done
10:27
Deleted Account
Thanks
Z
22:25
Zack
I have a plan to get the light node to sync with the testnet.
Lets do a checkpoint after all the hard updates have already been engaged. At that point, it should behave the same as a full node.
Deleted invited Deleted Account
16 January 2019
LB
00:53
Luke B
@victor_vl Amoveobook is going through a redesign right now. We will have the update on the testnet next week. Zach is right we are centralized but we try to host every market.
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Deleted invited Deleted Account
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SS
06:47
Spike Spiegel
https://app.veil.co/
T
10:35
The Ancients
dang
10:36
looks nice
Deleted invited Deleted Account
S
20:08
Sy
i can only shake my head at this, IF you could make +5% per day you would be rich within a year even if you only had 100$, NOBODY would just share this