Amoveo ♥🧿
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2 May 2018
Z
06:43
Zack
it doesn't
OK
06:43
O K
well I mean even if it doesn't,
S
06:43
Sy
then fix it :)
OK
06:43
thus removing both the domain and work
S
06:43
Sy
i dont thing so...hosts should only work for tld
OK
06:43
O K
oh
06:45
159.65.120.84 amoveopool2.com
159.65.120.84 www.amoveopool2.com
OK
06:45
O K
If you change your hostfile? or if you do nothing?
06:45
If you do nothing, it does not affect you
06:45
Deleted Account
do nothing
06:46
cool
OK
06:46
O K
No change
Z
06:46
Zack
ok, now if you put
work/ in the url, then the mining pool will just ignore it.
06:47
I have no way to test veominer
OK
06:47
O K
I'm going to test mining on Zack's pool on 1.3 on linux without changing hosts just to be sure it's not user error in the first place
06:47
Then I will change the host file
06:47
Doing now
Z
06:47
Zack
one second, ill update the server to use the new software
OK
06:47
O K
It will take me time to boot up anyway
Z
06:50
Zack
ok, the new mining pool is live
06:55
Deleted Account
is that
Z
07:00
Zack
It seems like Flypool controls >50% of zcash hashpower.
But there are also exchanges using Zcash.
How is this possible?
Why doesn't Flypool rob the exchanges?
But there are also exchanges using Zcash.
How is this possible?
Why doesn't Flypool rob the exchanges?
07:02
Maybe the nash equilibrium is something like a retirement attack.
Since they can only do the attack a few times until the network realizes and stops using their pool.
So they are waiting for a moment when the zcash exchanges have maximum volume.
Since they can only do the attack a few times until the network realizes and stops using their pool.
So they are waiting for a moment when the zcash exchanges have maximum volume.
JM
07:11
J M
51% !== guarunteed theft, it's still hard to do and involves some luck
Z
07:11
Zack
24 hour volume for Zcash is about $65 million.
I am guessing a double-spend attacker could get around $30 million before the exchanges all turn off zcash trading.
Compare to a daily profit of $21 thousand for running the mining pool.
So a single attack would be about as profitable as running the mining pool for 1500 days = about 4 years.
I am guessing a double-spend attacker could get around $30 million before the exchanges all turn off zcash trading.
Compare to a daily profit of $21 thousand for running the mining pool.
So a single attack would be about as profitable as running the mining pool for 1500 days = about 4 years.
AS
07:12
Aizen Sou
Zack there are a lot of coins with only 1 mining pool now (aka 99% centralization) and miners don't care.
Z
07:13
Zack
only having 1 pool isn't a risk for miners.
It is a risk for exchanges and traders.
It is a risk for exchanges and traders.
AS
07:13
Aizen Sou
it's a risk when the chain could be reset and miners will lose all their rewards ?
07:14
mostly pool OP doesn't have the incentive to do such attack, since they don't want to kill their milking cow, or they don't want their reputation to be ruined.
07:14
but i have seen some 51% attacks with some small coins at C-cex.com
Z
07:14
Zack
the risk of having only 1 pool is that the pool can undo blocks to undo transactions.
So they can sell Veo on an exchange, get paid in bitcoin, and then undo the veo payment to get their veo back. So they get free bitcoin from the exchange.
So they can sell Veo on an exchange, get paid in bitcoin, and then undo the veo payment to get their veo back. So they get free bitcoin from the exchange.
JM
07:17
J M
how does it not involve luck? having >50% of the network does not mean you win every block
Z
07:18
Zack
You don't have to win every block to do this attack. you just have to win more blocks than the rest of the network put together.
MF
07:18
Mr Flintstone
if OK is stealing veo people will leave the chain
07:18
people have not left the chain
OK
07:18
O K
Zack again resorting to sensationalism in the discord, while I'm trying to help you no less
MF
07:19
Mr Flintstone
people would also be complaining
07:19
this is not happening
07:19
any new project will have centralized mining
AS
MF
07:19
Mr Flintstone
this is unavoidable
07:19
no need to restart the chain...
Z
I
07:19
Iridescence
Zack is worried that the exchange he is coding is will be vulnerable to 51% attack, and this is reasonable
I
07:20
Iridescence
but we should assume that people who have a large stake in the success of VEO have a vested interest in its success
MF
07:21
Mr Flintstone
nobody who has invested a lot into veo is going to fucking steal veo
I
07:22
Iridescence
But they might steal BTC
MF
07:22
Mr Flintstone
why would they destroy the system that secures their value
I
07:22
Iridescence
might be worth it
Z
07:22
Zack
Competitor blockchains might even be paying OK a reward to do an attack like this.
OK could sell all his Veo before doing the attack. He only ends up stealing Bitcoin, so it doesn't matter if it hurts the value of Amoveo.
OK could sell all his Veo before doing the attack. He only ends up stealing Bitcoin, so it doesn't matter if it hurts the value of Amoveo.
JM
07:23
J M
> You don't have to win every block to do this attack. you just have to win more blocks than the rest of the network put together.
And that could take days or weeks or more, potentially
And that could take days or weeks or more, potentially
MF
07:23
Mr Flintstone
you can only 51% attack once as a pool if people know about it..
OK
MF
07:23
Mr Flintstone
I guarantee if O K went rogue he would lose all the miners on his pool
I
07:23
Iridescence
I think Zack isn't saying that OK *personally* isn't a bad actor, but that we should think about the distinct and real possibility that a general actor in OK's position would act that way
07:23
*personally* *is*
07:23
damn double negatives
07:24
I think O K is a fine person so far
07:24
=)
MF
07:24
Mr Flintstone
he also doesn’t control the fucking hardware
Deleted invited Deleted Account
MF
07:24
Mr Flintstone
it’s a pool
I
07:24
Iridescence
but from a crypto and game theoretic perspective it doesn't quite matter
Z
07:24
Zack
In reply to this message
statistics isn't that hard Johnny.
AP2 currently has >60% mining power.
if AP2 has mined 15 blocks, then on average the rest of us only mined 10.
The odds that the rest of us mined 15 blocks in the same time period is very small.
AP2 currently has >60% mining power.
if AP2 has mined 15 blocks, then on average the rest of us only mined 10.
The odds that the rest of us mined 15 blocks in the same time period is very small.
I
07:25
Iridescence
A pool with majority hashpower has the capability to undo transactions by mining a longer chain
07:25
that is what Zack is worried about
MF
07:25
Mr Flintstone
once
07:25
just once
JM
07:25
J M
> on average
MF
07:25
Mr Flintstone
and then we make that block hash invalid
07:25
Deleted Account
Hi everyone
MF
07:25
Mr Flintstone
and go on with our lives
Z
07:25
Zack
We don't even know OK's real name.
I didn't write a blockchain because I want to trust strangers with my money.
I wrote a blockchain because I want to never trust anyone.
I didn't write a blockchain because I want to trust strangers with my money.
I wrote a blockchain because I want to never trust anyone.
07:26
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
he is attacking people's character here and also suggesting they might have already done malicious activities without offering any proof
MF
07:26
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
It is not possible to avoid mining concentration in the early days of a pow coin
07:26
you know this
I
07:26
Iridescence
In reply to this message
As I said, I think that Zack isn't attacking O K's character, he is worried about the potential power that somebody in O K's position would have. Two different things
Z
07:26
Zack
In reply to this message
we are already in the process of reducing miner concentration. with the "hosts" trick that OK mentioned.
JM
07:26
J M
> The odds that the rest of us mined 15 blocks in the same time period is very small.
there's some variation due to randomness, to me is the same as saying it involves luck
there's some variation due to randomness, to me is the same as saying it involves luck
I
07:27
Iridescence
I am defending Zack because I think he is being misunderstood XD
MF
07:27
Mr Flintstone
it’s just scary when he is threatening to restart the entire chain for what seems like no good reason
07:27
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
then his choice os language is poor - but doesnt sound right because on al other topics he explains himself well
MF
07:27
Mr Flintstone
esp after all of us have committed significant resources
07:27
Deleted Account
Zack do you need help with translating your content to german? I would love to support this project.
Z
07:27
Zack
In reply to this message
there is a small random chance I can predict your private key.
The odds of beating someone with more hashpower than you is similar.
The odds of beating someone with more hashpower than you is similar.
07:27
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
no, he is being something else. he is trying to incite mob behavior
I
07:28
Anyway....
07:28
Deleted Account
amazing - he is just going after the blockchain's earliest supporters
07:28
Deleted Account
Looks like I joined at the wrong time lol 😂
07:28
Deleted Account
i think i will post a screenshot of his comments here on the bitcointalk thread and see what kind of community he develops
MF
07:29
Mr Flintstone
welcome to the community lmao
07:29
and this is not the first time
07:29
Deleted Account
What do you mean? I think in germany there is a good base of miners and blockchain enthusiasts. I just want to offer my ability to connect these people.
I
07:29
Iridescence
you don't have to be here and hold VEO if you're not interested in the project any more
07:29
Deleted Account
he has attacked @potat_o earlier too when the chain broke and it was his protocol's fault
07:29
2 times earlier
07:30
In reply to this message
well i can - that's what he is talking about. he is saying he doesn't need to trust folks on blockchain. i am saying let's give him ample reasons not to
07:30
Deleted Account
If you don't need german translations it is okay to just say that to me.
07:30
Deleted Account
he believes in game theory - well let's play it like one then
I
07:31
Iridescence
Not all stories in game theory end well....
MF
07:31
Mr Flintstone
if anyone is losing confidence in veo, happy to buy your bags and provide liquidity
Z
07:31
Zack
In reply to this message
that would probably be helpful.
Does google translate work very well for german? Maybe it is already readable to Germans?
Does google translate work very well for german? Maybe it is already readable to Germans?
I
07:31
Iridescence
in fact most stories in game theory end badly XD
07:32
Deleted Account
As i stated above i would offer my time to help this project to make it more appealing for german people. I would never rely on google translate.
07:32
Just message me whenever you need me.
MF
07:32
Mr Flintstone
I think we would all appreciate a good German translation
I
07:32
Iridescence
anyway, ultimately Zack has a lot of power as the sole developer of Amoveo as well, just as much as O K has a lot of power as the owner of amoveopool2.
07:32
I think it will ultimately come down to some negotiation between them
07:33
Deleted Account
What is happening currently with the pool? I am mining there.
07:33
Is everything still safe?
I
07:33
Iridescence
unfortunately this is because of a miner that neither Zack nor O K have access to 😂
07:33
everything is OK (lol)
Z
07:34
Zack
I think that if I put limits on the total volume of trades that can exist in the market at any one time, I can limit how much OK could steal at most.
I
07:34
Iridescence
Hey @Zack, you could just mention "an attacker" instead of OK. It will make you seem less accusatory.
Z
07:34
Zack
OK is the only one with >51%
I
07:34
Iridescence
"An attacker with 51%"
07:35
Deleted Account
How long until a gpu miner can replace the existing one and different pools can be selected
07:35
Deleted Account
Use developer pool money to create an more incentivicing pool for miners so the hashing power gets split.
I
07:35
Iridescence
currently pham huong's miner is the only one that can do Windows and AMD
MF
07:36
Mr Flintstone
but it points to ap2?
I
07:36
Iridescence
yeah
07:36
Deleted Account
i was silent earlier many times when i saw Zack unnnecessarily attacking folks here - even Sy in one instance. seems he has no plans to stop
I
07:36
Iridescence
and people have had trouble trying to get it to point ot other pools
Z
07:36
Zack
Amoveopool2 is getting about $720 per day now.
How much volume of trades can we safely have in an exchange?
How much volume of trades can we safely have in an exchange?
07:36
Deleted Account
Is it even possible to point it at other pools?
I
07:36
Iridescence
It's not hard to make a miner that does so
07:37
other Amoveo pools, that is
07:37
Deleted Account
If we have problems with amoveopool2 having too much hashing power just create another pool that has 0% or even gives people 0.1% per month out of the dev funds.
07:38
It is a good investment to keep the network safe.
Z
07:38
Zack
In reply to this message
I wont have access to dev funds for another 8 months.
I am willing to use my personal saving to run a mining pool at a loss, if it helps to fix the situation.
I am willing to use my personal saving to run a mining pool at a loss, if it helps to fix the situation.
07:38
Deleted Account
THis will help for sure.
Z
07:39
Zack
The mining pool I am running already charges 1/2 as much fee as AP2.
07:39
Deleted Account
How come people don't go over?
I
07:39
Iridescence
If you offer a bounty of like 100 VEO i'm sure somebody will code a nice miner for you
07:39
Deleted Account
Is yours less convenient?
Z
I
07:39
Iridescence
maybe I would XD
Z
07:40
Zack
Because Veominer only connects to AP2.
07:40
and Veominer is the most powerful software now.
07:40
Deleted Account
I can go over with 10-15 Gh/s right now
JM
07:40
J M
> there is a small random chance I can predict your private key.
> The odds of beating someone with more hashpower than you is similar.
I thought you said statistics isn't hard Zack
> The odds of beating someone with more hashpower than you is similar.
I thought you said statistics isn't hard Zack
Z
07:40
Zack
There is also Nonscense pool, I think they charge even less than me
MF
07:40
Instead of hitting the nuclear button
07:41
A few ways: either make better mining software, change the other one to point to new pools ourselves, or ask the creator to do it
07:41
these ways are certainly cheaper than a fucking chain restart
Z
07:42
Then we have to create a comparable miner that let you change the pool.
MF
07:43
Mr Flintstone
I would contribute some veo if someone figures out how to make a miner that fixes our problems
Z
MF
07:44
Mr Flintstone
this would in theory increase the price of veo as well
07:44
so we should all be amenable to this
I
07:45
Iridescence
less hashpower = price increase? 😶
MF
07:45
Mr Flintstone
it would be the same hash power
07:45
just distributed better
Z
07:45
Zack
I am deleting the veominer links from reddit too
MF
07:45
Mr Flintstone
because the miner can switch pools
MF
07:46
Mr Flintstone
less risk of getting forked (inadvertently or on purpose)
07:46
Deleted Account
Isnt there the source code?
07:46
Can't just fork of an release for us that has no 72seconds for this indidividual and lets users select the pool?
07:46
Can't you*
Z
07:47
Zack
no. Pham Huong did not give us the source code.
I
07:47
Iridescence
the source only has a README
07:47
not the actual source code
07:47
Deleted Account
i see lol
07:47
just downloaded myself. :(
S
07:53
S
Im off till i can mine with another miner and pool and AP2 has less than 60%. OK is a good guy but 60% for a mining pool is not healthy for any coin
Z
S
07:54
S
Miner won't work on my rig tho
07:55
Better than contributing to an unstable situation
Z
07:55
Zack
S
07:56
S
No 1080tis. Can't run them all on one miner instance and running 5 crashes it frequently
07:57
Pham Huong did the trick
07:58
Ask for price to open source maybe?
07:58
Deleted Account
I am running 6 1060 with that miner without problems
Z
07:58
Zack
maybe CPU is the bottleneck for Sjz
S
07:58
S
Think so
Z
08:10
Zack
Maybe this means we need to get the dominant assurance smart contract working. https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/use-cases-and-ideas/raising_funds.md
Then it would be easy for the community to pay someone to build better mining software.
Then it would be easy for the community to pay someone to build better mining software.
08:11
Deleted Account
Hey Zack
08:11
Where does this default to Pool2 or Pool1?
Z
08:12
Zack
I don't know. the readme says amoveopool
08:12
Deleted Account
Oh it is not your release
Z
08:12
Zack
I think maybe he just forgot to update the readme, and it really does amoveopool2
08:12
I am not Mandel Hoff.
08:12
Deleted Account
Look at my last link
08:12
it does Pool2 on this release
08:12
which is the most recent one
Z
08:12
Zack
cool
08:13
Deleted Account
You might want to get this sorted out too because your readme.md links to this
08:13
New miners might then be able to find pools themselfes.
Z
08:13
Zack
It doesn't matter that the default is amoveopool2.
What is important is that it is possible to change pools.
What is important is that it is possible to change pools.
08:13
Deleted Account
true
AS
08:22
Aizen Sou
In reply to this message
Exactly. You should focus on what u do best, not wasting time on mining centralization. You raised the concern and i think as pool owner OK understands it too. He offered solution.
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
08:26
Zack
500 members!
08:26
Deleted Account
Hi
08:26
I'm having issues getting AmoveoMinerGpuCuda to run all my GPU in a bat
M
08:27
Mike
I want ASICs 🙈
08:27
Deleted Account
I'm using the default outline in the readme +
0,1,2,3 and ALL
08:27
And it looks like neither is targetting all four cards
Z
08:27
Zack
maybe you need a different terminal for each card?
08:28
Deleted Account
potentially ill give that a shot...when i fire up the bat the device info is blank even though the GPUs register fine in the veominer
08:29
GPU Device Properties: is blank and it seems to not care what arg I pass in to target the GPU, it only likes the 0th card
08:29
oh wait
08:29
that did it
08:29
thanks!
Z
08:29
Zack
great :)
08:33
Deleted Account
is there a preferred blocksize/numblock arg I can pass in for 1080ti/1070ti
08:33
saw a few other GPUs mentioned in the readme
Z
MH
08:36
Mandel Hoff
I don't have a 1080 or 1070 sorry. Some settings and hashrates for gpu models are on my github. I'm using veominer. It's about 20% faster and take much less cpu. 🙈
Z
08:39
Zack
https://twitter.com/zack_bitcoin/status/991476938471563264
I made an advertisement to hopefully find someone to write us a better miner.
I made an advertisement to hopefully find someone to write us a better miner.
08:39
@Mandelhoff please don't advertise the malicious miner here.
08:39
Deleted Account
I couldn't get Veominer to work 🙁
08:39
I'll take working over busted atm
08:42
The pool itself doesn't show nethash only the highest hash of the last share submitted?
MH
Z
08:43
Zack
It wont change pools. it only connects to amoveopool2.
08:43
and AP2 has >60% hashrate
MH
08:47
Mandel Hoff
Those two items do not make the mining software malicious.
I
08:48
Iridescence
Can one be malicious even if one doesn't intend to be? 🧐🧐
Z
08:48
Zack
https://github.com/PhamHuong92/VeoMiner/issues/7
He has known about this issue for at least 3 weeks, and continues to not fix it.
He has known about this issue for at least 3 weeks, and continues to not fix it.
08:48
He has pushed other updates in the mean time, and even lied and claimed that this problem was fixed.
I
08:49
Iridescence
Maybe he doesn't know that it broke again
Z
08:49
Zack
it was never fixed.
MH
08:50
Mandel Hoff
Again, those items still don't make the mining tool malicious.
I
08:51
Iridescence
The funny thing is that neither O K nor pham Huong asked for this. O K just runs the pool, pham Huong just runs the miner.
08:51
Truly a good example of unwanted side effects 😂
Z
08:52
Zack
The community is paying Phan Huong about $600 per day.
Seems to me she should be able to fix this.
Seems to me she should be able to fix this.
I
08:53
Iridescence
The question is how much more is it worth to be able to switch pools
MF
08:53
Mr Flintstone
I don’t particularly like the way Pham has handled this
08:54
it feels like willful inattentive
08:54
Inattention*
Z
08:55
Zack
Right now Amoveo is broken. OK can do double-spends whenever he wants.
I bet Phan Huong could fix this with less than an hour of work.
I bet Phan Huong could fix this with less than an hour of work.
08:56
oh, Phan Huong charges 2%. so actually she is getting paid $600 per day.
08:58
Deleted Account
I would call it a malicious attempt to create a closed source mining software in the very early days of a project that puty my own benefit over the security of the network. The case here is very clear.
08:59
puts*
Z
09:00
Zack
Does it even benefit Phan Huong?
I think that she would get paid more if she fixed this.
Since Veo would be worth more if it could be securely traded.
I think that she would get paid more if she fixed this.
Since Veo would be worth more if it could be securely traded.
09:00
The only way this benefits Phan Huong is if OK and Phan Huong are working together, or are the same person.
g
09:00
goons
Problem is it’s the best miner and many people will use it regardless of risk
09:01
If we could agree to boycott...
Z
09:01
Zack
We could keep doing updates to turn off Phan Huong's accounts to prevent Phan from being paid
09:01
Deleted Account
Agreed. Why would she go through all the trouble making a miner, and making it worse by pointing it to a pool she has no stakes in?
09:04
Reading this chat the last couple of hours shows it is in her interest changing it asap
MH
09:04
Mandel Hoff
Same reason majority of miners chose the largest pool even if the fees are not the lowest in many alt coins. Sy pointed this out earlier and it's correct.
09:05
Deleted Account
Miner have no choice in this case tho.
I
09:05
Iridescence
Amoveopool is stable and has a good history - it has first mover advantage
09:06
Deleted Account
Sure, but Zack also has a good history, with even a lower fee.
09:07
Deleted Account
Its not the pool. Its the software that forces miners into supporting a monopoly of a pool or they miss gains.
09:07
They are incentivized in this scenario to make the network more insecure.
MF
09:10
Mr Flintstone
I do not think drastic measures are needed
09:11
but you can’t fuck with the chain esp when there is a strong social layer this early on
AS
09:11
Aizen Sou
From what I read about PhamHuong's messages in Discord. Her English is terrible. She might not understand it's a threat. So she ignores it because it brings more work for her while she gains nothing from doing it (from her POV)
Z
09:11
Zack
Someone PMed me that they got Veominer to work with my pool.
Hopefully a solution will be available soon
Hopefully a solution will be available soon
MF
09:11
Mr Flintstone
she speaks Vietnamese?
09:11
does anyone know Vietnamese that would be willing to speak to her
AS
09:12
Aizen Sou
I think so. I could ask a friend to write her. I need to know how to contact her.
Z
09:12
Zack
Is she Vietnamese?
09:12
(I don't really know her gender.)
N
09:13
NM$L
just ban her
MF
09:13
Mr Flintstone
Pham huong is a Vietnamese name
Z
09:13
Zack
it is the name of a popular model in Vietnam
AS
09:13
Aizen Sou
From the name, yes. Could be a male/female. I'm not sure about her/his gender.
MF
I
09:16
Iridescence
Google translate? 😂
AS
09:16
Aizen Sou
I have friends from Vietnam so real good communication shouldn't be the problem. I only need to know how to contact her/him.
09:18
Deleted Account
I’m sure no one wants the network in this situation. How difficult is it to build a miner that can compete and point at different pools? Are there any existing miners that can be used?
AS
09:19
Aizen Sou
Amoveo is still so small that no famous mining developer pays any attention to it.
I
09:21
Iridescence
I can try to port my miner to opencl. Maybe @mandelhoff can assist with making it work with Windows
09:22
Will need some time though, I've already spent a lot of time on my miner and now currently also working on other projects....
09:23
Deleted Account
Why not create a github repo for it where other people can participate?
I
09:23
Iridescence
It's already hard to understand my code, let alone other people's code. 😂
09:24
We have 2 open source GPU miners already anyway.
09:25
But none for AMD and Windows
JS
09:31
Jon Snow
09:31
One positive note
Z
09:34
Zack
In reply to this message
no worries. someone figured out how to fix VeoMiner for windows.
Something very suspicious happened. It is a mystery.
For some reason, Pham Huong decided to split up the URL for contacting AmoveoPool2 into like 5 little pieces.
someone went through the .exe file byte by byte to find the pieces and change them to make it work with other pools.
Something very suspicious happened. It is a mystery.
For some reason, Pham Huong decided to split up the URL for contacting AmoveoPool2 into like 5 little pieces.
someone went through the .exe file byte by byte to find the pieces and change them to make it work with other pools.
MF
09:35
Mr Flintstone
legend
09:35
Deleted Account
So is there a new exe we can use?
09:36
Why would Phan Huong build it this way?
Now it seems like this wasn't an accident. Phan Huong was trying to get everyone to use the same pool.
Now it seems like this wasn't an accident. Phan Huong was trying to get everyone to use the same pool.
09:39
Deleted Account
The simplest solution is that they have an agreement
G
Z
09:40
Zack
yes, compilers are mysterious. I certainly don't understand them.
G
09:41
Gonzalo
😁👍
Z
09:42
check here if you are getting shares: http://159.65.120.84:8085/main.html
09:44
Deleted Account
I can try it out later
09:45
Hard to walk away from the payout I’ve spent a day building lol
Z
09:46
Zack
It only takes a couple minutes to mine a share and confirm that it works
09:47
Deleted Account
I’ll test it within the hour
J
09:56
Jim
In reply to this message
Really simple, just request all exchanges to list (and make the first exchange transact) in mVEO
09:57
Deleted Account
similiar to MIOTA?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
J
10:10
Jim
Or MBYTE, etc
I
Z
10:20
Zack
looks like the hacked version of veominer has problems. it keeps crashing
I
10:20
Iridescence
Well yeah
10:20
If you mess with binaries
Z
10:21
Zack
Ive messed with binaries plenty of times without crashing software.
To cheat in video games for example.
I had a friend in high school who would write entire new levels for a closed source video game, just by messing with the binary.
To cheat in video games for example.
I had a friend in high school who would write entire new levels for a closed source video game, just by messing with the binary.
10:29
A share was successfully mined with this miner:
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/veominer_reverse_engineering
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/veominer_reverse_engineering
10:30
Deleted Account
Any update since I tested?
Z
10:31
Zack
no updates
10:31
oh, did you test 1.3 or 1.2.5?
10:31
Deleted Account
1.3
Z
10:31
Zack
1.3 is supposed to be more stable.
10:32
Maybe if we mess with the parameters it wont crash
10:40
Deleted Account
Idk, I’m open to ideas... it’s also worth noting I was getting less hashrate per card with your version
Z
10:55
Zack
It seems like the hacked version of veominer crashes instead of mining for the developer.
So if you set up a batch script to keep restarting it, then you are able to mine without paying the developer.
So the hacked veominer is 2% better than the original, in this way.
So if you set up a batch script to keep restarting it, then you are able to mine without paying the developer.
So the hacked veominer is 2% better than the original, in this way.
P
10:58
Pan
In reply to this message
No, you will not benefit.
Because, oncemore when the marketcap increasing slowly in future, there are proposal of increasing the reward again from Zack.
Because, oncemore when the marketcap increasing slowly in future, there are proposal of increasing the reward again from Zack.
Z
10:59
Zack
11:02
This is a place to discuss Amoveo.
IP
11:04
I P
In reply to this message
so looks like we need to edit byte code to stop mining for developer. This way Pham H will learn his lesson
11:06
If he is unwilling to do a simple fix so that people could mine at any pool they choose- we byte edit the exe to allow for this AND cut out the miner dev fee
P
11:06
Pan
Please note, numbers of coins want stable price, now we achieved it😄
Z
11:07
Zack
Pham Huong is on Discord. here is your chance to talk
IP
11:09
only 2 options remain- improve existing opensource miner or hexedit the veominer exe
Z
11:37
Zack
Things are looking good.
PhanHuong says he can get it fixed within 3 or 4 days.
PhanHuong says he can get it fixed within 3 or 4 days.
IP
11:58
Deleted Account
That’s good news
Deleted joined group by link from Group
I
12:26
Iridescence
Interesting that Pham Huong thinks that reversing binaries is illegal
12:26
I personally strongly disagree that reversing binaries is immoral
12:26
legality depends on the government of course
12:27
also, new miner coming out soon?
12:27
dkat - Today at 8:51 PM
hey guys, me and my folks will release open-source Veo_miner_man in the next couple weeks since Mandelhoff didn't push any new commits. We already have a local version (20% optimized), things are going well , but I need to test more tho. And sure, no fee
hey guys, me and my folks will release open-source Veo_miner_man in the next couple weeks since Mandelhoff didn't push any new commits. We already have a local version (20% optimized), things are going well , but I need to test more tho. And sure, no fee
Deleted invited Deleted Account
IP
12:41
I P
In reply to this message
yeah, good news everyone. opensource+pools working+nofee looks very nice
12:43
In reply to this message
he just thinks that if something isn't done in its interest its illegal=) however pool issue had been brought up to him a long time ago, how much time does it take to make a small fix
Sudoku invited Sudoku
Sudoku invited Sudoku
13:15
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
That is a cool idea for a logo. But get rid of the 3d effect
S
13:17
Sy
looks like i didnt miss anything through the night 😁
M
Z
13:34
Zack
Ok controls amoveopool2. That pool has more than 50% of he hash power. So ok can do double spends.
13:34
It seems like we got this solved. The situation should be fixed within a week.
S
M
13:36
Mike
Wouldn’t it be beneficial for OK to do double spends
Z
13:37
Zack
No.
A double spend means that ok could sell Veo, and then later undo the tx to get his Veo back.
To steal bitcoin.
He could drain all the bitcoin from a btc-veo exchange for example.
A double spend means that ok could sell Veo, and then later undo the tx to get his Veo back.
To steal bitcoin.
He could drain all the bitcoin from a btc-veo exchange for example.
13:37
But this will probably be fixed soon.
M
13:40
Mike
A 51% attack is beyond that right?
S
13:42
Sy
not really
Z
13:42
Zack
A 51% attack is this.
S
13:42
Sy
it just means you reverse whatever transaction you did
M
13:43
Mike
Yeah that’s what I mean. I wouldn’t call it trivial
Z
13:44
Zack
I would.
You add one line to the block verification code.
If height == H, and block hash == BH, then the block is invalid. This would force your node to mine on a fork that starts right before height H.
You add one line to the block verification code.
If height == H, and block hash == BH, then the block is invalid. This would force your node to mine on a fork that starts right before height H.
M
13:47
Mike
That doesn’t fork?
Z
13:48
Zack
Yes it forks.
That is why you need >50% hash power to do this.
So you can win the fork.
That is why you need >50% hash power to do this.
So you can win the fork.
S
14:38
Sy
maaan...compiling C for windows sure sux
IP
14:41
I P
In reply to this message
I think you overreacting a bit. OK is not going to double spend with 51% attack. But sure would be better once the hashrate distribution gets more even between pools
S
14:46
Sy
it will even out over time for sure
14:46
i mean there is money to be made ^^
14:49
someone here mining with a decent linux farm?
14:50
Zack any idea why my node would be running at 100%?
14:51
15:00
just restarted it after git pull, unchanged
Deleted invited Deleted Account
S
15:45
Sy
its not the pool, just stopped it to check
17:35
Deleted Account
Which is the best card for mining?
17:52
Deleted Account
nvidia cards
17:52
1.3 Ghs gtx 1060 6 GB
17:53
2 Ghs gtx 1070 ti
17:53
around 3 Ghs 1080 ti
G
18:05
Gosen
how many coin does 3 ghs mine per day？
G
18:10
Deleted Account
you welcome 😀
Kinniku Man invited Kinniku Man
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Zack removed Deleted Account
Z
S
19:31
Sy
looks like it stopped, cpu usage is back to normal
19:32
never saw it before but i didnt really monitor
Z
19:32
Zack
Maybe it was syncing blocks?
S
19:44
Sy
no
19:45
it was a sync_mode:normal(). node running for days, i just checked out of boredom how the server was doing and noticed the unusual high cpu usage
19:57
Deleted Account
hi ppl
19:57
what this mean, sometimes got msg on miner
19:57
duplicate nonce submittet....
19:57
share error
EP
20:06
Evans Pan
Zack, can you make some incentives for miners to move to your pool? And also maybe setup an oracle to bet on AP2's hashrate< 50% or not.
20:07
a betting on AP2's share of the nethash will be very interesting for many miners.
MF
20:09
Mr Flintstone
Like : ap2’s Coinbase will get x blocks of next y
Z
20:14
Zack
Cool idea. We should bet on how much control ap2 will have
EP
20:16
Evans Pan
this might be the best real usecase for Amoveo oracle for the time being.
Z
20:19
Zack
It looks like Pham Huong is not being paid by her mining software.
The 2% that should be going to her seems instead to be destroyed.
This is the biggest proof of burn in amoveo history. It makes Pham Huong a hero for selflessly giving so much of her wealth to support amoveo.
Or maybe there is a language barrier and she doesn't know that she isn't being paid.
The 2% that should be going to her seems instead to be destroyed.
This is the biggest proof of burn in amoveo history. It makes Pham Huong a hero for selflessly giving so much of her wealth to support amoveo.
Or maybe there is a language barrier and she doesn't know that she isn't being paid.
IP
20:19
I P
Im in. But wait for new miner release first
20:19
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
😥, 9.1 KB
20:20
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
😑, 11.8 KB
EP
IP
20:24
I P
No point to bet before miner is released
C
20:25
ChmunChabad
I luv this action. So happy I found it
EP
20:25
Evans Pan
well, then it turns out the bet can be when the new miner will be released.
C
20:26
ChmunChabad
What is problem with other miners?
EP
20:26
Evans Pan
In three month time, a new miner will be release?Ｙｅｓ ｏｒ Ｎｏ
C
20:27
ChmunChabad
Just tried phams because zack linkes it on github
S
21:13
Sy
In reply to this message
where did you find that? i never actually bothered to check the dev address
Z
21:14
Zack
Gonzalo has been doing experimentation, he was looking at the messages being sent, and identified the developers pubkey, and says no money is going to it.
I searched the executable, and all the pubkeys in it have never received payment.
I searched the executable, and all the pubkeys in it have never received payment.
S
21:15
Sy
lol shit
21:15
that must suck
Z
21:28
Zack
The language barrier is pretty big.
I wonder what is going on in Pham Huong's head?
Maybe she thinks she is getting paid?
Maybe she thinks Amoveo is much smaller than it actually is?
I wonder what is going on in Pham Huong's head?
Maybe she thinks she is getting paid?
Maybe she thinks Amoveo is much smaller than it actually is?
AS
21:30
Aizen Sou
No idea. I'm waiting for the translator to work with him/her
21:31
Deleted Account
one of my 1080ti got burnt
Z
21:43
Zack
Does Pham Huong even speak Vietnamese?
I tried sending messages in Vietnamese, and she seemed just as confused as my English messages
I tried sending messages in Vietnamese, and she seemed just as confused as my English messages
21:43
I asked what language is easiest, and she would not tell me
MF
AS
21:46
Aizen Sou
what else ? He/she doesnt speak English and his/her name is clearly Vietnamese. You used the translator right? It could be a bad translation as well.
Z
21:49
Zack
yes, that is possible too
B
22:36
Ben
depending on language, google like to fuck it up ;)
22:36
like with hebro, they never get it right
22:43
Aizen we need ur help interpret
22:43
Vietnamese
AS
22:44
Aizen Sou
My translator already wrote PhamHuong in Discord and waiting for his answer
IP
S
22:46
Sebsebzen
ah nice
22:49
Heeeerrrow
MF
22:55
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
for tdax, is the plan to wait for zacks exchange code to be finished?
S
22:56
Sebsebzen
nope
22:56
but we need to integrate and now slow development speed
22:56
maybe 3 weeks
MF
22:56
Mr Flintstone
so listing is not dependent on zacks separate exchange
IP
S
22:56
Sebsebzen
no
22:56
and yes
MF
22:56
Mr Flintstone
so I assume it would be using node wallet?
22:56
cool
S
22:56
Sebsebzen
excatly
22:57
is it stable now?
IP
MF
22:57
Mr Flintstone
people have been running the nodes for weeks now iirc
S
22:57
Sebsebzen
ok thats good
IP
22:57
I P
In reply to this message
yep, can vouch for that. was running node for weeks with no crashes
MF
22:57
Mr Flintstone
anyone feel free to chime in if there have been crashes
EP
23:11
Evans Pan
Try French to Pham
I
AS
23:30
Aizen Sou
Okay PhamHuong is probably Vietnamese-born in non-English and non-Vietnamese as well, my translator said. He sucks at both of these 😅
23:30
He is trying to understand which language is the best for PhamHuong
IP
23:30
I P
In reply to this message
it would be easier if he could say what is his native language really
S
AS
23:33
Aizen Sou
Ja ich denke er ist ja ein Kartoffel 🤣
23:34
In reply to this message
My friend already asked him but he probably doesn't understand the question
S
23:34
Sy
lol
Z
23:34
Zack
if we keep throwing words at him in different languages, he will eventually realize and tell us his preference
23:34
You think he is a potato?
23:37
It looks like the pubkey to receive rewards for PhanHuong's miner is wrong.
Her pubkey in the miner starts with a "v" instead of a "B".
So AmoveoPool2 is not paying any rewards to her.
So Pham Huong is not being paid.
She is throwing away like $600 a day.
Her pubkey in the miner starts with a "v" instead of a "B".
So AmoveoPool2 is not paying any rewards to her.
So Pham Huong is not being paid.
She is throwing away like $600 a day.
S
AS
23:39
Aizen Sou
Cant stop laughing, really
S
23:39
Sebsebzen
How about you use the hexeditor and fix it too
23:39
haha
Z
23:40
Zack
We only figured out the pubkey Phan Huong uses because Gonzalo was watching the messages on the wire while mining.
I have not been able to figure out where in the byte code this address is written.
I have not been able to figure out where in the byte code this address is written.
AS
23:40
Aizen Sou
My friend asked him what is his native language and his answer is: C++ 🤣
B
23:41
Ben
i like more "Krauts" ;)
OK
23:44
O K
Is the discord PH maybe impersonating?
Z
23:51
Deleted Account
what is reversing binaries?
S
23:51
Sebsebzen
discord is full with fakes
S
23:51
S
Gambling, conspiracy theories and crypto 💘
23:53
Deleted Account
Its no fake. I think he is real. Same Bad english as on git
IP
23:56
Deleted Account
Yes
AS
23:58
Aizen Sou
He didn't ask for money and his bad english style is the same. I would say it's him.
23:59
Btw Zack . at least PhamHuong said you don't have to worry. He is updating his miner to work on any pool now.
3 May 2018
G
Z
MF
00:43
Deleted Account
my node block height is still in 17869
00:44
says nothing to sync
Z
01:04
Zack
In reply to this message
you probably need to update and do
make prod-clean so you can restart from the genesis block.
01:04
Deleted Account
is there a reason its not syncing itself?
Z
01:04
Zack
git pull updates the software
01:04
It is probably because you are using an old version of the software that is no longer valid
01:05
We did a hard fork a few days ago, I think it was at 17869. everyone who didn't update got stuck there.
01:05
no, it was at 18629
01:06
Deleted Account
that would appear to be it.
Z
01:06
Zack
I don't see your node on the list of nodes.
01:06
Deleted Account
thanks
Z
01:06
if you don't have publicly accessible IP and port, then your peers can't send you info about new blocks.
01:08
Deleted Account
)
(amoveo_core_prod@veonode001)4> block:height().
** exception error: no match of right hand side value error
in function block:top/1 (/home/amoveo/amoveo/_build/prod/lib/amoveo_core/src/consensus/chain/block.erl, line 106)
in call from block:height/0 (/home/amoveo/amoveo/_build/prod/lib/amoveo_core/src/consensus/chain/block.erl, line 111)
(amoveo_core_prod@veonode001)4> block:height().
** exception error: no match of right hand side value error
in function block:top/1 (/home/amoveo/amoveo/_build/prod/lib/amoveo_core/src/consensus/chain/block.erl, line 106)
in call from block:height/0 (/home/amoveo/amoveo/_build/prod/lib/amoveo_core/src/consensus/chain/block.erl, line 111)
01:08
it should be publicly available
01:09
Z
01:09
Zack
that is an unexpected error
01:09
Deleted Account
i just did git pull
01:09
make prod-build
Z
01:09
Zack
did you do
make prod-clean ?
01:09
Deleted Account
make prod-go
01:09
yes
01:09
between build and go
Z
01:10
Zack
I think make prod-clean deletes the stuff from build.
01:10
1) clean
2) build
3) go
2) build
3) go
01:11
I usually use
make prod-restart it combines build and go into a single command
01:11
Deleted Account
cool good to know thank you
01:11
looks better now
Z
01:11
Zack
great
01:12
Deleted Account
getting blocks now
01:21
(amoveo_core_prod@veonode001)10> block:height().
18942
18942
01:21
still not on node list
Z
01:24
Zack
yeah, it is weird you haven't appeared on the list. I guess it takes some time for the peers to propagate. how many blocks has it been?
01:27
Deleted Account
I just restarted. it was stuck on 18942
01:27
resyncing now
Z
01:28
Zack
18948 is the top. so you were 6 blocks away
01:29
Deleted Account
could you build a permanent market around an asset like a car?
01:29
attached to its vin
Z
01:29
Zack
I don't understand.
01:29
Deleted Account
mhmmm
01:33
the car itself will have a lifetime and things will happen to the car and it will be traded
01:38
somewhere the car could be registered
01:38
like the dmv
Z
01:38
Zack
like, a single automobile?
Amoveo oracles can only report on the state of something that is public knowledge.
You can ask the oracle what the average price for a particular type of car is in a particular city.
You cannot ask about whether an individual car is functioning.
Amoveo oracles can only report on the state of something that is public knowledge.
You can ask the oracle what the average price for a particular type of car is in a particular city.
You cannot ask about whether an individual car is functioning.
01:38
Deleted Account
and the things that happens to it and its trades and owners are tracked
01:39
a car registry is public information
01:39
carfax is public
Z
01:40
Zack
Amoveo only stores accounts in the consensus state.
There is no place to record a registry of cars.
I think it is a bad idea to use a blockchain for this application. I recommend using Ethereum if you want to do this.
There is no place to record a registry of cars.
I think it is a bad idea to use a blockchain for this application. I recommend using Ethereum if you want to do this.
01:41
Amoveo smart contracts are in the lightning network. Data in the lightning network can usually only be proven to the 2 participants in that channel.
They can't prove to anyone else what their channel state is.
They can't prove to anyone else what their channel state is.
01:42
Deleted Account
got it
01:42
well
01:42
can there be more than two participants in a channel?
Z
01:42
Zack
no.
01:42
Deleted Account
ok
Z
01:43
Zack
I used math to show that having more than 2 participants per channel only has costs, with no benefits.
01:46
Deleted Account
so I need to open a channel with all my friends or merchants individually ?
01:51
where do i change my node description?
01:52
its synced but still not on veoscan
Z
01:53
Zack
you don't need any channel at all.
01:55
Deleted Account
so its just if i do a high volume with someone i trust, we open a channel do a zillion transations and verify all of them on close with the blockchain?
S
01:55
Sy
doesnt the node refuse to spend the veo if the pubkey is invalid?
Z
S
01:56
free veo
Z
01:57
only my pool had this bug where it was keeping 1/3rd of the money. But with Gonzalo's help I found a fix, so now my pool is paying out the correct amounts, even with the cracked-veominer.
iYames invited iYames
01:58
Deleted Account
(amoveo_core_prod@veonode001)9> peers:add({{47,76,94,155}, 8080}).
server crashed.
txs
removing peer [-7,[-7,70,133,222,59],8080]
command was txs
removing peer [-7,[-7,70,133,222,59],8080]
talk_helper failed_connect 1
ok
server crashed.
txs
removing peer [-7,[-7,70,133,222,59],8080]
command was txs
removing peer [-7,[-7,70,133,222,59],8080]
talk_helper failed_connect 1
ok
01:59
there we go
01:59
on list now
S
01:59
Sy
In reply to this message
if phamong has given an invalid address the pool cant payout so it stays in the pool...dude stay in context xD
M
01:59
Deleted Account
how do i change my node description?
S
02:00
or catweed? sorry :D
Z
02:00
Zack
In reply to this message
I did a measurement. Amoveopool2 got 308 blocks during a time period, and paid out like 318 veo in rewards.
S
Z
S
02:00
Sy
i will have to verify pool payouts vs block explorer soon, catweed will implement some form of json so i can easily parse it
02:01
it looks like the node lost a tx every now and then, gotta make sure its working alright now
02:01
every now and then = over the last month, lots has changed since then
Z
02:01
Zack
amoveo_utils:address_history is good for looking up history of an account
S
02:02
Sy
ah neat, thanks
02:02
gotta try that later
02:02
is it accesable by api?
Z
02:03
Zack
yes. api:pubkey/3
S
02:04
Sy
na sorry, i meant via http post
Z
02:05
Zack
the entire api module is available via http post from the same machine
02:05
here, ill figure out curl format
02:08
curl -i -d '["pubkey", "BEwcawKx5oZFOmp1533TqDzUl76fOeLosDl+hwv6rZ50tLSQmMyW/87saj3D5qBtJI4lLsILllpRlT8/ppuNaPM=", 100, 18000]' http://localhost:8081
S
02:11
Sy
return 100 up from block 18000?
02:11
Deleted Account
Am I right to assume that the circulating supply is growing by ~1.4% per day?
S
02:12
Sy
hmm
02:12
cant be
02:12
target is 144 veo per day so the total is increasing, the increase is fixed so the grow rate is decreasing over time aswell if you stick with %
02:12
we are at 23000?
02:12
Deleted Account
Total supply was 23875 a day ago, and today it's around 24802
S
02:12
Sy
so currently 0,62% per day
02:13
thats true we are above target
02:13
190 blocks in 24h
02:13
Deleted Account
oh ok
B
02:13
Bluedream
zack do you need any korean for ur team? translation or community manager whatever
S
02:13
Sy
but since total supply is growing and growth should be more or less static the inflation will decrease over time
02:13
not sure if i used the right words tho xD
02:14
unless ofc governance variables are changed etc etc
02:14
Deleted Account
It's quite difficult to get your hands on some VEO if you're not a mining specialist atm
02:14
:(
Z
B
02:15
it’s me
S
02:17
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
lol... well my laptop isn't plugged in 24/7 and it would turn into a heatblaster I think
S
02:17
Sy
well you should have a rig and know how to use it, thats correct
02:18
Deleted Account
I'd rather financially support someone to do that for me
02:18
each their own specialty in life
02:18
I maybe know someone, let's try it
02:24
Deleted Account
You can send me money to mine for you
02:24
:)
02:27
Deleted Account
Any of you guys willing to sell OTC? (I tried a couple of times in the discord)
MF
02:29
Mr Flintstone
how much are you trying to buy for
02:29
I feel like that is quite the relevant parameter
02:29
Deleted Account
I read the last price at which a trade happened was 200 usd?
MF
02:30
Mr Flintstone
I put a bid out for 200 usd and nobody was willing to sell to me lmao
I
02:30
Iridescence
Couple of days ago there were asks for 200
02:30
but that is gone now
02:35
Deleted Account
if they ever come back, I'll be there :p
S
03:01
Sy
there have been trades at 250
03:01
noone selling at 200 supports that :)
03:11
Deleted Account
i think the market has spiked overall
03:12
so now the price probably will be higher
I
03:13
Iridescence
I personally think Aeternity is a good comparison for valuation in terms of market cap
f
03:13
finex
500! 😁
03:16
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
i dont think so. the user interfaces and experience is completely missing from veo as of yet
03:16
until we do that, it'll not attract that kind of attention
MF
03:17
Mr Flintstone
literally anyone can create a ui
03:17
you cannot compare the technical depth and capabilities of ae to amoveo
03:17
ui creation is not requiring any special skill set
I
03:17
Iridescence
haha look at us fanboying over Amoveo
MF
03:17
Mr Flintstone
amoveo should be multiples of ae
03:19
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
great UIs are not created that easily. they take time and iterations. i have overseen some of these projects in the past - creating UI, they are painstaking and iterative. also easy to create doesnt mean they are done. truth is they are still not done here. for example using the oracle need to be UI based and easy for uptake. just my opinions
I
03:19
Iridescence
In reply to this message
I agree with you in that good UI and UX are crucial for adoption and marketing. (See AmoveoPool for case in point...). But I tend to focus on the underlying technical ideas and code as well. (See Bitcoin/Ethereum for case in point....)
03:19
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
i am not disagreeing with the potential - i am saying as of yet, it's probably not true
I
03:20
Iridescence
In reply to this message
Well definitely not true because Amoveo market cap is currently tiny XD
03:21
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
yes but check one of the latest polls by Emin on twitter. last time i read 77% identified UI/ UX as the main thing that's WIP in crypto. and he said this exactly that the developers have it the other way around
03:22
the current monetary/ incentive structure is great to keep main dev engaged but isn't conducive enough for more devs to start contributing on other aspects. so you will mostly have miners and pool managers.
I
03:23
Iridescence
is there an ICO for a decentralized UX provider? XD
03:23
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
there are design firms who can do an excellent job but they are expensive - very expensive. and they just dont design UIs, they will map behaviour and then design interfaces. Like IDEO
03:24
cheap design can be bought off fiverr for less than 1k usd
S
03:24
Sebsebzen
UI,UX is important, but don't know if Zack wants to manage or spend on it
03:25
Also these things are hard to do in a group, because everyone has different taste
03:25
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
i dont think so and probably he is not great at it. it's a different skill
S
03:26
Sebsebzen
But he could spend some of the founder wallet on it
03:27
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
1. it's locked up for a long time and 2. he might argue, given he believes in game theory so much, that because the benefit will go to everyone, why should he be the only one to spend on it
S
03:27
Sebsebzen
I wouldnt mind spending on it, but I would mind having to reach consensus for each pixel in the UI
03:28
These things better handled undemocratic way
03:28
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
exactly - get the right folks and relinquish control to them
03:29
In reply to this message
again - game theory would suggest while it'd be in the best interest of everyone to contibute, the nash equilibrium would be somewhere else
S
03:29
Sebsebzen
I would really like if that could start sooner than later
03:29
Deleted Account
i am trying to think like Zack would - to predict outcomes here
S
03:29
Sebsebzen
Hire a creative agency
03:29
that takes care of all aspects
MF
03:29
Mr Flintstone
if we really give a shit about ui / ux
S
03:29
Sebsebzen
website, twitter, corporate design, UX/UI
MF
03:29
Mr Flintstone
let’s create a dominant assurance contract
S
03:30
Sy
all the light node does is doing posts vs the node, you can do that in any language and make it look however you like, no magic there
MF
03:30
Mr Flintstone
a ui agency provides a mock-up
03:30
If we like, we agree to pay them if they implement
03:30
Once implemented, the oracle will resolve correctly and they will get paid
S
03:30
Sebsebzen
Having worked with creative before, it never is that smooth
S
03:31
Sebsebzen
And also people have different tastes
MF
03:31
Mr Flintstone
it’s a dominant assurance contract
03:31
So everyone can contribute
03:32
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
that's the thing - it'll get stuck there if you leave it to game theory. you will get some volunteers maybe but most will try to freeride
MF
03:32
Mr Flintstone
“So if we are using the dominant assurance contract to build a bridge over a river, and the bridge will make your restaurant worth $10,000 more, then the Nash equilibrium strategy for you is to give $10,000 to the contract.”
03:33
i would suggest creating a community fund for next 6 months/ 1 yr/ perpetual that takes a slim cut from all mining and puts it into a wallet that's for community development
03:33
the wallet can be a multisig
03:34
and it'll be a hard fork but create long term solution
MF
03:34
Mr Flintstone
one of the killer apps of amoveo is trustless crowdfunding via a dominant assurance contract tied to an oracle output
03:34
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
ok so let's put it to practice - can you create one and then we can see how far crowdsourcing for this is working ?
MF
03:35
Mr Flintstone
we need to code the dominant assurance contract in chalang I believe
03:35
unless I am mistaken it isn’t written
03:35
03:36
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
so then more hurdles to cross than i knew. let's see if it works. again - why would anyone code it for free ?
MF
03:36
Mr Flintstone
yeah definitely not a hurdle free path
03:36
perhaps easier alternatives
03:37
but we really just need seamless ux for 1. Participating in markets 2. Participating in oracles
03:37
Deleted Account
i am not trying to be a naysayer here - i am trying to say that because we have been told everything here is designed to happen through game theory - everyone will probably now react accordingly
MF
03:37
Mr Flintstone
this seems like a one time ish build
MF
03:38
Mr Flintstone
anyone have any idea how much this would cost?
03:38
I assume it depends heavily on the agency
03:38
Deleted Account
kind of catch 22, you need an contractual incentive to create a contract that is designed to incentivize contractually
03:40
In reply to this message
depends on the scope. if you include wallets, websites, interfaces for oracles - you are probably looking at anywhere between 100k and 200K
03:41
might be a more if you want your website to have interactive elements etc. scope definitions are important and can pull this up to 400k+
S
03:41
Sebsebzen
which is nothing in crypto
03:42
but still, someone needs to manage it
S
03:42
Sebsebzen
yep
03:42
Deleted Account
for organic structures - a lot of money
S
03:42
Sebsebzen
but then
03:42
who stops anyone from taking Amoveo code and buid an ICO around it
03:43
remove the founders reward
03:43
and build a fancy UI/UX and marketing operation
03:43
essentially what happend with Aeternity
Deleted invited Deleted Account
MF
03:45
Mr Flintstone
yeah anyone can do that
03:46
but it’s not like you can sneakily do it
S
03:46
Sebsebzen
that's what happened with Aeternity afaik
MF
03:46
Mr Flintstone
they also wouldn’t have zack
S
03:46
Sebsebzen
Probably they wont care
MF
03:46
Mr Flintstone
then the base code doesn’t matter anyways
03:46
if it’s all just marketing
03:47
anyways
S
03:47
Sebsebzen
I don't see one succesfull organic project
03:47
they all end up like Peercoin
MF
03:47
Mr Flintstone
I think we have skilled enough members of the community who are interested enough in the success of amoveo to create these pools
03:47
define organic
S
03:48
Sebsebzen
even Ethereum is run by Vitalik and pretty centralized until now
MF
03:48
Mr Flintstone
monero started from height zero right
03:48
same with btc but that’s disqualified
S
03:48
Sebsebzen
organic as in only code is put out and then volunteers take care of the rest
03:49
I don't think that works anymore
03:49
which is sad
03:50
but maybe the users could vote for a lead
03:50
who has to take care of the UI/UX for example
03:50
Deleted Account
hey guys havent checked in on this chat in a while
03:50
any updates on the exchange?
03:51
and what are current OTC rates?
03:51
thanks
P
S
03:53
Sebsebzen
I'd rather have someone who lives close to Zack
03:53
for face to face meetings
03:54
if he's comfortable with that
Z
04:15
Zack
In reply to this message
it makes me uncomfortable when you make up stories about me. I can speak for myself.
04:17
In reply to this message
we can approximate it with the current market contract. but it would work better if we made a contract optimized for raising funds.
04:20
Deleted Account
thank you zack!
Z
04:25
Zack
In reply to this message
Read the docs. We address the issue of freeriders.
or check out page 14 of this paper from bitcoin hivemind: http://bitcoinhivemind.com/papers/3_PM_Applications.pdf
or check out page 14 of this paper from bitcoin hivemind: http://bitcoinhivemind.com/papers/3_PM_Applications.pdf
MF
04:29
Mr Flintstone
not too much discussion on the bitcointalk forum
04:30
but I feel like it’s definitely driven an increase in telegram / discord members
04:30
idk, or maybe it just happened at the same time
04:37
In reply to this message
read it again - i was saying i was trying to think like you, not put words in your mouth. i might have failed - that's different
04:41
In reply to this message
Vitalik doesn't have as much say in eth anymore as compared to the early days. he is however influential - any stand he takes or puts his weight behind has an impact - how much is anyone's guess. I have read that he is therefore quite careful on policy/ governance matters these days. Also Eth did an ICO - so they had funds. their website was one of the best long before any crypto did substantial marketing
04:44
one scenario i see here is someone building amoveo tools privately and monetizing it somehow - maybe with small fees etc. that's need somewhat deep pockets and also significant confidence on ROI/ continuity. After Zack spoke about restarting the chain yesterday - I am not sure if that'd happen in the near future.
04:48
I can myself create a basic website with info etc through html tools available these days and small private funding. but i dont have necessary skills to do anything beyond that. will have to think about that.
04:49
i have seen some folks already have registered some related domains. anyone has any plans for them or are just planning to sell at a premium later?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
I
05:22
Iridescence
Amoveo Squatters 😤
C
05:34
ChmunChabad
on ubuntu 18.04 the miner wants libcpprest.so2.8 but libvpprest-dev 2.10.2-6 is installed :(
05:34
won't let me sudo apt-get install libccprest2.8
05:34
someone gosu?
A
06:48
Aaron
The version it wants is on ubuntu 16.04
06:48
There's a related issue in the repo
G
07:49
Gonzalo
no squatting at all for me
G
07:49
Gonzalo
S
Sebsebzen 29.04.2018 02:43:44
I've reserved amoveo.pm ("prediction market") for 12 euros :)
07:49
and amoveo.one for 10 eur
07:49
S
Sebsebzen 29.04.2018 03:00:52
I'm happy to donate em to the project
G
07:50
Gonzalo
Also I secured 4 amoveo domains way before starting main net and I offered then to Zack
07:51
registered 6 months ago
07:53
If anybody has some great idea for them just tell us
07:57
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
thanks. i will try to create a basic website whenever I find time next and share it with folks here. if you everyone feels okay then we can move it to one of these domains
G
08:23
Gonzalo
great! 👍
I
08:32
Iridescence
Discord trading picking up
Z
09:36
Zack
https://github.com/PhamHuong92/VeoMiner/releases/tag/1.4
Can someone test this to see if it can connect to other pools besides amoveopool2?
Can someone test this to see if it can connect to other pools besides amoveopool2?
09:41
Deleted Account
What's your pool ip again
09:41
and port
Z
09:48
Deleted Account
yes I could connect to your pool
09:48
on v1.4
Z
09:48
Zack
you got shares? what is your pubkey?
09:48
was it ubuntu or windows?
09:48
Deleted Account
windows
Z
09:50
Zack
What is your pubkey? did you confirm that you are being paid shares on the pool?
09:50
Deleted Account
I didn't wait around log enough to check, I just confirmed that it showed that it was using your url as the pool
Z
10:05
Zack
@dontshoot619 what exactly did you type in to get it to work? we are having trouble in discord trying to get it to run
10:14
veominer.exe (wallet) ALL 256 256 1 0 http://159.65.120.84:8085/main.html
10:14
correction
10:15
plus the seed
10:15
sorry I'm running between computers to get the info
Z
10:16
Zack
don't type "main.html" at the end.
10:17
the main.html part is for visiting the web page to see your stats
K
10:19
Kale
Who can tell me 1080's set code?
10:30
Deleted Account
Will usb ASICS be usable in the future?
Z
10:33
Zack
We confirmed that the new version of VeoMiner can change pools.
10:41
You can learn how to change pools here: https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo
We should slowly switch some mining power to other pools. There could be bugs in the other mining pools, so do it slowly and check to make sure you are being paid the right amount.
If anything seems broken, report back here and we will get it fixed quick.
We should slowly switch some mining power to other pools. There could be bugs in the other mining pools, so do it slowly and check to make sure you are being paid the right amount.
If anything seems broken, report back here and we will get it fixed quick.
10:43
Deleted Account
Was the stability issue fixed from the tests yesterday?
10:57
Deleted Account
hi all, any idea what is the best OC setting for Nvidia Card?
IP
11:49
I P
is there an info page with pool links, min payots on that pools, pool fees, hashrates?
11:50
i only know that there is Zack's pool and some private pool (besides the amoveopool2)
S
12:08
It could become very patchwork like
12:08
Ideally it should be one agency doing all aspects
12:08
Logo, website, Twitter
12:08
Etc.
Z
12:24
Zack
I think patchwork is better.
Depending on a central authority to maintain all the gui stuff is dangerous
Depending on a central authority to maintain all the gui stuff is dangerous
S
12:47
Sebsebzen
I just mean for design aspects, like the website, logo
12:48
for aestethic reasons
12:49
rather stay underground with github site only then
12:49
that's quite cool and minimalist
12:49
and a statement
12:53
just come up with some basic identity for the project
12:53
and have amoveo.io forward to github
12:53
or take amoveo.pm
12:55
the domains should be forwarded into your hands tho
12:58
i mean ownership
IP
13:27
I P
well at least redirect from amoveo.io to a github would be nice as a placeholder for a future website
13:28
i do understand that Zack does not like fancy stuff like UI/websites and so on because really github docs are enough to run the systems
13:28
BUT 99% of ppl like fancy stuff like websites/UI/videocontent and etc
J
13:28
Jim
Or use GitHub pages as I do
IP
J
13:29
Handy as it directly uses GitHub as backend
13:30
As long as you don’t need PHP/MySQL or whatnot, it does everything your standard web host does
IP
13:32
I P
well not bad at all
Deleted invited Deleted Account
A
13:40
Alex (🅐_🅑)
can anyone point me to a link where i can see the current amounts of coins i circulation?
S
13:41
Sebsebzen
its on veoscan latest block
A
13:46
Alex (🅐_🅑)
ok
13:46
what is the current amount in circulation and how many VEO will be created a day approx?
S
13:48
How about we work on logo concepts first?
13:48
PM me
J
A
J
14:04
Jim
Market cap 24316.11098279 VEO
S
14:05
ap2 down to 56%
14:05
so...phamongs newest can switch pools now?
IP
14:05
I P
yep
S
14:05
Sy
someone wanna try vs mine? :)
IP
S
14:07
Sy
hmm how do i answer whats my pool? its mine xD
current hashrate 3.5 th, fee is 4%, payout 0.5
i would mainly be interested about your invalids stats
current hashrate 3.5 th, fee is 4%, payout 0.5
i would mainly be interested about your invalids stats
I
14:11
Iridescence
I think he was asking for the url
S
14:11
Sy
ah...that makes more sense 😅
14:12
pmed :)
14:13
dont want to go full public just yet
Firas Boudabbous invited Firas Boudabbous
17:02
Deleted Account
BANLovEH/4fiD5u5OTowQu2JXhI2Tn+sIcb6LpFcv0wIDeAsyUGzWfzXNRA+0UIx+6HAp0yXtlyaE2caYautyDw=
Is this a correct Amoveo public key? Is it the one used by VeoMiner?
Is this a correct Amoveo public key? Is it the one used by VeoMiner?
S
17:02
Sy
yes
17:02
interesting one xD
17:02
BAN LovE
17:02
:D
17:02
Deleted Account
For sure :)
Deleted invited Deleted Account
K
17:40
i found my hash One-third reduction today
S
17:43
Sebsebzen
Zack if there was a service provider for VEO, how would they be paid via governance mechanism
G
S
18:27
Sebsebzen
.pm too
18:28
Nice
G
18:53
Gonzalo
👍
Z
MH
19:30
Mandel Hoff
In reply to this message
50 block delay on avp2 would make latest veominer work not even credited yet, so probably not that.
S
19:31
Sy
there goes the paranoia train again
19:31
plus hashrate on pools end is always an estimate
Z
19:32
Zack
There is some evidence that this will happen.
19:33
In the previous versions it looked like 1/3rd hash power was going to the broken pubkey.
But it couldn't receive any funds since it was broken.
But it couldn't receive any funds since it was broken.
S
19:39
Sy
hmm but wouldnt the user have noticed the lower hashrate on the pool way earlier?
IP
Z
19:40
Zack
Maybe not. It could have been related to other problems in the old miner
OK
19:40
O K
In reply to this message
No. He has no idea how much hashpower was going to which of pham's pubkeys.
Z
19:41
Zack
Well, I have some idea.
Gonzalo ran tests on old versio s and looked at the messages on the wire to see which pubkey was being rewarded how often. 1.4 is untested.
Gonzalo ran tests on old versio s and looked at the messages on the wire to see which pubkey was being rewarded how often. 1.4 is untested.
OK
19:44
O K
There is more than one version, for more than one OS, and you have no idea what % of miners use which version.
IP
19:44
I P
well hashrate on pool fluctuates a lot so i can't really say about real fee %
S
19:46
Sy
hashrate on pool is mostly garbage
19:46
a bit lucky and it spikes, unlucky and it goes to hell
OK
19:46
O K
We've fixed it since those days
S
19:47
and api:spend seems to check if the account exists and switches to the correct form, spend_tx via post doesnt
Z
19:47
Zack
In reply to this message
Create account consumes consensus state space. So we might want a bigger fee for it in the future.
S
19:48
Sy
okay
19:48
it seems a bit redundant tho to check if the account exists first and then use the correct one if api:spend does that anyway
19:48
or ignores it, not sure
19:48
but api:spend accepted a 0 balance account just fine
Z
19:51
Zack
Changing the consensus mechanism to add a new tx type is very expensive. It would be a hard update.
Changing the Api so that you use a different tx type with a certain command is very cheap.
Changing the Api so that you use a different tx type with a certain command is very cheap.
19:52
For now they both have the same fee, so the user shouldn't have to think about the difference between spend or create account.
19:52
It is automatic
S
19:52
Sy
nope
19:52
spend_tx failed
19:52
i finally figured out why some addresses didnt get paid by my pool xD
19:55
variable_public_get(["account", to],
function(result) {
console.log("result was ");
console.log(result);
if (result == "empty") {
fee = 152050;
variable_public_get(["create_account_tx", amount, fee, from, to],
spend_tokens2);
} else {
fee = 152050;
variable_public_get(["spend_tx", amount, fee, from, to],
spend_tokens2);
}});
}
function(result) {
console.log("result was ");
console.log(result);
if (result == "empty") {
fee = 152050;
variable_public_get(["create_account_tx", amount, fee, from, to],
spend_tokens2);
} else {
fee = 152050;
variable_public_get(["spend_tx", amount, fee, from, to],
spend_tokens2);
}});
}
19:55
you should probably let the node figure out the fee aswell instead of defining it in a javascript...
Z
19:57
Zack
Your mining pool uses javascript to send rewards?
19:58
Trusting the node to set your fee would be less secure.
They could set your fee too high and drain your wallet.
They could set your fee too high and drain your wallet.
S
19:59
Sy
you should recognize your own js code...
Z
19:59
Zack
It's from the light node sure.
S
19:59
Sy
so a js that can be easily adjusted is more secure than your own erlang code?
20:00
the pool pays via posts ofc, its still the same
20:00
a post spend doesnt work if the account hasnt been created yet
20:00
an api:spend does
Z
20:00
Zack
The erlang code is easy to adjust. The light wallet cannot be adjusted, if you download it securely from github.
20:01
Api:spend is the same thing as a post request spend.
Api module is the post request api.
Api module is the post request api.
S
20:01
Sy
no it isnt
20:01
i just paid 3 addresses via api:spend which failed via post spend for days
Z
20:02
Zack
Maybe you wrote the command a little differently?
20:03
There is an external api too. But you cannot use that one to spend
S
20:03
Sy
...
20:03
you know i run a pool right?
Z
20:04
Zack
I wonder where you think the post request api is programmed in erlang, if not in api.erl
S
20:04
Sy
why the heck do you assume that i misstyped a command that is paying out for weeks now?!
20:04
the command is correct
20:04
the call is correct
20:04
its paying every other account that already had balance
20:04
the node returned a 500 on every 0 balance account
20:05
you can ignore that if you want but im telling you, its handled differently
Z
20:05
Zack
The mining pool I wrote is able to pay rewards to empty accounts.
20:05
It uses a post request to do it.
S
20:05
Sy
which one?
Z
20:05
Zack
Amoveopool2 uses a post request to pay rewards to empty accounts
S
20:06
Sy
dude
20:06
just nvm, its one of those days you dont want to understand me, its fine
Z
20:07
Zack
This is the mining pool I wrote https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo-mining-pool/tree/shares/apps/amoveo_mining_pool/src
S
20:07
Sy
i got it worked out, others will too eventually
20:14
you do relealize that bug fixing isnt about "but im doing it differently and its working" right?
spend(ID0, Amount) ->
ID = decode_pubkey(ID0),
K = keys:pubkey(),
if
ID == K -> io:fwrite("you can't spend money to yourself\n");
true ->
B = trees:dict_tree_get(accounts, ID),
if
(B == empty) ->
create_account(ID, Amount);
true ->
Cost = trees:dict_tree_get(governance, spend),
spend(ID, Amount, ?Fee+Cost)
end
end.
spend(ID0, Amount, Fee) ->
ID = decode_pubkey(ID0),
tx_maker0(spend_tx:make_dict(ID, Amount, Fee, keys:pubkey())).
and im right
sad that i have to point you to your own code
if called without fee it does the check, if called with fee it doesnt
spend(ID0, Amount) ->
ID = decode_pubkey(ID0),
K = keys:pubkey(),
if
ID == K -> io:fwrite("you can't spend money to yourself\n");
true ->
B = trees:dict_tree_get(accounts, ID),
if
(B == empty) ->
create_account(ID, Amount);
true ->
Cost = trees:dict_tree_get(governance, spend),
spend(ID, Amount, ?Fee+Cost)
end
end.
spend(ID0, Amount, Fee) ->
ID = decode_pubkey(ID0),
tx_maker0(spend_tx:make_dict(ID, Amount, Fee, keys:pubkey())).
and im right
sad that i have to point you to your own code
if called without fee it does the check, if called with fee it doesnt
20:14
why are there even 2 methods if you dont want the node to calculate the fee to begin with?
Z
20:23
Zack
Amoveo is about 11000 lines of erlang, and around 9000 lines of javascript.
I do not have it memorized.
If you want my help fixing a bug, then just say so. I didn't know until now.
I do not have it memorized.
If you want my help fixing a bug, then just say so. I didn't know until now.
20:23
Although, it isn't possible for me to help with you closed source mining pool
S
20:24
Sy
i told you spend doesnt create an account, it took me 5s to spot the error in that code but you rather argued with me for minutes that your code cant be wrong and it is working with your pool
if that wasnt a bug report i have no idea what is
if that wasnt a bug report i have no idea what is
OK
S
20:24
Sy
and if you dont even bother to look at your code after i report it...no comment
20:24
it doesnt matter AT ALL how my closed source pool you cant look at works, i reported the bug very clearly
Z
20:25
Zack
I am not sure what page this code is from, or what you want me to do
S
20:25
Sy
then just leave it shitty
IP
20:25
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
😥, 9.1 KB
S
20:25
Sy
im tired, i know how to fix it so dont bother
OK
20:25
O K
😂
S
Z
20:25
Zack
is this from api.erl?
S
20:26
Sy
whats the bug i reported?
Z
20:26
Zack
you reported a bug?
S
20:27
Sy
lol
Z
20:27
Zack
oh, were you using spend/3 instead of spend/2?
S
20:27
Sy
i hope you are just sleep deprived otherwise im really worried about this project
20:27
now you got it...
20:28
the next question is, why is there even spend/3 if its not supposed to be used because spend/2 does the same, just better?
20:28
plus calculates the fee you set in the js earlier which the node just ignores...
Z
20:28
Zack
In reply to this message
This sort of negative comment is not so good.
I want us to build a culture for Amoveo that is more positive.
It is important that we discuss problems when they come up, but this feels more like a personal attack than an effort to solve a problem.
I want us to build a culture for Amoveo that is more positive.
It is important that we discuss problems when they come up, but this feels more like a personal attack than an effort to solve a problem.
S
20:29
Sy
true, you should know that one tho
20:29
you've personally attacked many members of this channel
20:31
but dont worry, im done for today - reread it tomorrow after you've slept and it might make more sense
Z
20:31
Zack
I think spend/3 is there because that was the original format, and their might still be tests that use it.
S
20:31
Sy
i clearly reported the bug, you replied, i replied, you forgot everything along the way
S
Z
21:59
Zack
In reply to this message
To make a lightning payment you need to know the recipient's pubkey so that you can encrypt a message to them.
In Amoveo's design I optimize assuming that everyone is using the lightning network for everything they do.
You can generate the address from the pubkey, but you can't generate the pubkey from the address.
So it is simpler if the user just keeps track of the pubkey and doesn't have to also record the address.
In Amoveo's design I optimize assuming that everyone is using the lightning network for everything they do.
You can generate the address from the pubkey, but you can't generate the pubkey from the address.
So it is simpler if the user just keeps track of the pubkey and doesn't have to also record the address.
S
22:00
Sebsebzen
ok. thx. but is it safe?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Jurko | Bermuda capital 📈 invited Jurko | Bermuda capital 📈
Deleted joined group by link from Group
Z
22:10
Zack
It looks a little strange now, since we aren't using the lightning network yet
22:11
In reply to this message
It is as safe as reusing a bitcoin address for more than one payment.
T
23:54
Tato
In reply to this message
as I can see some data of the miners focused on their pool http://159.65.120.84:8085
23:56
It seems that mine is less than in amoveopool2
4 May 2018
Z
00:02
Zack
Why do you think it is less?
00:09
I was able to help tato by PM in Spanish.
Since my pool pays out rewards less frequently, he was concerned that he is making less profit.
Tato is going to use both pools for a couple days as an experiment to see if either is better.
Since my pool pays out rewards less frequently, he was concerned that he is making less profit.
Tato is going to use both pools for a couple days as an experiment to see if either is better.
A
00:15
Al
Guys, got about 6 Veo to sell quickly.. If needed - dm me
MF
01:17
Mr Flintstone
Lol, always quick with your sells
A
MF
01:45
Mr Flintstone
maybe makes sense for someone to bump the ANN on bitcointalk?
01:46
been awhile since last response
S
02:04
Sebsebzen
02:04
different idea for logo
02:04
still A and V
OK
02:04
O K
That's pretty sick
S
02:04
Sebsebzen
but as interlocking arrows, i.e. prediction
OK
02:05
O K
Kinda looks like lightning too
S
02:05
Sebsebzen
not sure about what color combo
02:05
OK
02:05
O K
Whoa
G
02:06
Gonzalo
looks nice
S
02:06
Sebsebzen
I think it's up to par with other crypto logos
G
02:06
Gonzalo
colors are little 80's
02:06
Miami Vice
S
02:06
Sebsebzen
and not the clichee crystal triangle thing
02:07
yeah I'm not sure about what combo
02:07
was thingking something futuristig
02:07
*futuristic
I
02:07
Iridescence
Dang that is one nice logo
G
02:07
Gonzalo
yes this looks better to me... the other one I saw Ex xE
OK
02:08
O K
I still kinda like the handshake logo, besides the red
I
02:08
Iridescence
What you made it look like a "M" instead of an "N"?
02:08
Not sure if that is possible
OK
02:09
O K
You could make the final | of the M with a lightning bolt
02:09
:b
G
02:16
Gonzalo
😂
S
02:16
Sebsebzen
I'm thinking a bit more cyberpunk-esque color scheme
A
G
S
02:17
Sebsebzen
Decred?
02:17
Nano?
G
02:17
Gonzalo
02:18
02:18
OK
02:18
O K
Hmm, not a bad point
G
02:18
Gonzalo
sorry!
S
02:18
Sebsebzen
Minimalist logo, always have similar
G
02:18
Gonzalo
true
S
02:18
Sebsebzen
There is only so much you can do with four lines and a circle
02:19
it's about the details then