Amoveo ♥🧿
3 March 2018
OK
00:11
O K
I'm thinking GPU
00:11
Deleted Account
sorry, FPGA, not asics
s
00:12
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
gpu seems likely
00:12
Deleted Account
I'm just happy they got the vanity address for the lulz
K
00:12
Kenny
gpu seems very likely
00:12
same
I
00:12
Iridescence
I'm still working on a CUDA miner to fight Batman
s
00:12
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
In reply to this message
genisis block reward for open gpu miner?
I
00:12
Iridescence
Unfortunately couldn't make it in time for launch
s
00:12
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
i could try to find someone to build it if there is
Z
00:13
Zack
In reply to this message
did you look at my opencl code? it can help you
s
00:13
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
(i cant build one myself)
I
00:13
Iridescence
The c miner is enough
00:13
I'm about 50% done
OK
00:14
O K
That's awesome
00:14
Deleted Account
great news, CUDA miner!!
Z
00:14
Zack
In reply to this message
I already did the work of unraveling the code into a kernel
00:15
Deleted Account
mandel is absent ..?
00:16
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
please share
I
00:16
Iridescence
Still working... I need to make sure it works before releasing it
00:17
Deleted Account
CPU right?
MH
00:17
Mandel Hoff
I'm reading.
I
00:17
Iridescence
Will let the community know when it is ready. I will ask for some beta testers when it is ready for testing
00:17
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Up for that
00:17
Deleted Account
once we are close to getting a gpu miner released I will get some more gpu's
00:17
me too
00:18
I got CUDA on my machine, but i couldn't get it to work
00:18
i was going to try working it today, but mainNet didn't go so well
00:18
Deleted Account
What after gpu miner? We mine on the same chain or hardfork ?
P
00:20
Psdev
mainnet log is ./_build/prod/rel/amoveo_core/log/testnet.log ?
00:21
also looking at ./_build/prod/rel/amoveo_core/log/run_erl.log
00:21
unclear why logs stop, not response from (amoveo_core_prod@xyz123)1> block:height()
KR
00:23
Kevin Roberts BWD
my node stops at the last block it saw when i turn my miner on
00:27
Deleted Account
my node lags behind always
Z
00:31
Zack
In reply to this message
We can't help if you don't share your progress.
OK
00:31
O K
💯
00:35
I always have trouble finding the full node instructions on github
00:35
almost got the VPS node running btw
00:36
"turn-it-on"
00:36
got it
Z
00:36
Zack
In reply to this message
it says "Full node" all big as a heading.
00:36
in the readme
OK
00:37
O K
I was just looking at the getting started docs, but that make sense
00:37
Deleted Account
so absorbed block 1010 and then stops its ok to turn sync_mode:normal().?
Z
00:38
Zack
yes.
00:38
Deleted Account
Thanks
P|
00:39
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
could not get block 503 from peer [-7,[-7,52,234,133,196],8080]
00:40
why do I get this when doing sync:start().?
Z
00:41
Zack
my mining pool doesn't work. it pays out rewards too frequently. even if the block doesn't get included.

So my mining pool is paying out 100% of the rewards.
but sometimes it has no balance, and can't afford to pay a reward.
00:41
In reply to this message
I think you need the new version of the software.
I
00:42
Iridescence
In reply to this message
😱
OK
00:44
O K
"You must be on a branch to propose changes to this file"
00:44
What does that mean?
00:44
On github
Z
00:44
Zack
I don't know. What are you trying to do?
OK
00:45
O K
Make a pull request on a file
Z
00:45
Zack
did you clone the repository to your own account?
OK
00:46
O K
I'm not sure, usually I just click the little pencil
Z
00:46
Zack
near the top is a button that say "Fork". this is how you copy the code to a space of your own. So you can store your work and I can look at it.
00:46
Deleted Account
amoveopool.com is down for me
Z
00:46
Zack
In reply to this message
you don't have permission to modifying files in my repository. you need to make your own space for storing your work.
00:46
Deleted Account
so my node is 3 blocks behind current height will I be able to mine somehow?
OK
00:46
O K
okay
00:47
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
mandels pool is down
Z
00:47
Zack
In reply to this message
if you join my mining pool you might be able to. or just wait till height 2000.
00:47
my mining pool is finding blocks.
00:47
Deleted Account
ok will setup a vps pointing to you
00:48
now that you pay more 😂
OK
00:48
O K
Weird, I forked it and the file is different from yours
00:48
I'll just open an issue
D
00:49
Denis
In reply to this message
Looks like Batman stopped mining. Or he just started new private chain.
KR
00:50
Kevin Roberts BWD
00:50
will not get another block
Z
00:51
Zack
Now that enough people are in the mining pool, it started working again, and I am making profit
00:51
Deleted Account
i'm running 10x 8 core server to my node and finally got 1 block that i get to keep.. expensive block
Z
00:52
Zack
In reply to this message
I updated the code over 400 times since you made this copy. it is very old.
OK
00:52
O K
That doesn't make sense, I just made the copy
00:53
ok
Z
00:53
Zack
I got 8 Veo!!! :D
00:53
now I can afford to turn the block reward up
00:53
Deleted Account
I got 0 😣
Z
00:55
Zack
Maybe it is best to wait a couple more weeks to turn the difficulty up. Let us assume that another error like this will happen, and someone will get more tokens than we intended.
00:57
Deleted Account
So no increase of block reward also ?
Z
00:57
Zack
It seems like all the blocks are going through my pool now
00:57
In reply to this message
yes, I think we should increase it soon
P
00:58
Psdev
2018-03-02 16:56:03.908 [error] <0.1070.0> Ranch listener http terminated with reason: {nocatch,[{reason,{error,{1,truncated_json}}},{mfa,{ext_handler,handle,2}},{stacktrace,[{jiffy,decode,2,[{file,"/amoveo/_build/default/lib/jiffy/src/jiffy.erl"},{line,68}]},{packer,unpack,1,[{file,"/amoveo/_build/default/lib/encrypter/src/packer.erl"},{line,13}]},{ext_handler,handle,2,[{file,"/amoveo/_build/prod/lib/amoveo_http/src/ext_handler.erl"},{line,26}]},{cowboy_handler,handler_handle,4,[{file,"/amoveo/_build/default/lib/cowboy/src/cowboy_handler.erl"},{line,111}]},{cowboy_protocol,execute,...}]},...]} in cowboy_handler:handler_handle/4 line 119
D
00:58
Denis
Because amoveopool.com down
Z
01:00
Zack
In reply to this message
looks like someone tried to send you misformatted data.
01:00
Deleted Account
just begin mining
G
01:00
Gonzalo
My 3 nodes updated and synced up to height 1046 👍
01:01
Deleted Account
mandel is up
01:01
Zack that's my VPS
01:02
caught up to 1043, sync_mode:normal(). hasn't hit 1044
Z
01:02
Zack
In reply to this message
awesome
01:02
In reply to this message
yes, propagation isn't that quick yet.
MH
01:03
Mandel Hoff
Pretty sure that all this large forks and orphaned blocks will make my pool be unable to make all payouts.
P|
01:05
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
is there a way to find out the overall (all cores) hash rate?
01:05
I only see the single core score in the test mode
Z
01:06
Zack
In reply to this message
multiply by how many cores you have.
P|
01:06
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
hypothetically, if I have 512 cores, will the miner be able to use all of them?
Z
01:06
Zack
haha. yes, It should be fine.
01:07
erlang is very good at this sort of thing
01:07
but I have not tested it personally
P|
01:07
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
I see. thanks ;)
MH
01:08
Mandel Hoff
I expect to have very little time to work on stuff this weekend, and I expect to only be able to fix my broken nodes about twice per day this weekend. Just want to set expectations for my pool being down a lot based on the last several hours.
OK
01:10
O K
Alright, I think it's smooth sailing on my node
P|
01:13
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
What pool should I be joining? Is there a list and things like total hash rate and such yet? (I guess not, but that's cool ;) )
OK
01:14
O K 
Found a block. 1
read nonce n is 2
Found a block. 2
01:14
2 in a row? can't be
I
01:14
Iridescence
No, that means you found 1 block
01:14
Deleted Account
it means one block
G
01:14
Gonzalo
this is just 1
OK
01:14
O K
bummer
01:15
😄
G
01:15
Gonzalo
lucky!
Z
01:15
Zack
In reply to this message
you found a block. just one. it makes 2 messages. this helps me to diagnosis problems.
OK
01:16
O K
okay 🙂
01:16
Deleted Account
would i be able to find a block on a 10mh/s machine?
Z
01:16
Zack
In reply to this message
de default pool, the one I am running, seems to be working well
01:16
Deleted Account
Found a block. 1
read nonce n is 2

If you are running a solo-mining node, then this error may have happened because you need to turn on and sync your Amoveo node before you can mine. You can get it here: https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo
If this error happens while connected to the public mining node, then it can probably be safely ignored.Found a block. 2
did not find a block in that period
OK
01:16
O K
I'm on Zack's pool
01:16
default pool
01:17
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
I keep getting this message so I know the block won't count :(
I
01:17
Iridescence
Scott are you solo mining or pool?
OK
01:17
O K
@ZululAnon I'm a lot less than 10mh/s so yes
01:18
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
solo mining, but it's a sync issue which I hoping will work itself out
01:18
Deleted Account
ok I am on Zacks pool too so I have all confs mandel pool and solo too
M
01:18
Minieep21
Anyone mining with i7700k?
I
01:18
Iridescence
If your node is not synced you can try re-syncing from scratch
01:18
Deleted Account
yep.. i keep just doing that over and over again until it works
01:18
Deleted Account
i am mining with ryzen 7 1700x
OK
01:19
O K
does the explorer "lookup account" button work?
I
01:19
Iridescence
Make sure you are connected to peers too
Z
01:19
Zack
yes. it tells your balance
01:19
of whatever address you type in
OK
01:19
O K
I typed in one of my addresses, but not related to my node (I typed in the address that found a block) and it returned NaN
I
01:20
Iridescence
If you find a block solo mining, it is your node address that get the reward
Z
01:20
Zack
maybe the node hosting that explorer isn't synced. or maybe you didn't actually mine a block
01:20
In reply to this message
correct
I
01:21
Iridescence
api:pubkey().
01:21
Gives your node address
Z
01:21
Zack
In reply to this message
Thanks for the community support Iridescence. This is great.
01:21
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
yes. BKYp6
01:22
sucks my headers are stuck at 806, but I'm getting blocks 1089
Z
01:23
Zack
In reply to this message
refresh the light node page.
OK
01:23
O K
How can I get pubkey from private key
01:23
I don't know what public key this is anymone : (
I
01:23
Iridescence
In reply to this message
No problem! Hoping that Amoveo succeeds!
01:23
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
forgot about that one.. worked
Z
01:24
Zack
In reply to this message
where did you get the private key from?
OK
01:24
O K
a wallet.html download
I
01:24
Iridescence
You can open the wallet on Zack's node to load the private key
01:24
Or your own node as well?
01:24
Not sure
01:25
Deleted Account
do i have to set the pub key in sys.config?
OK
01:25
O K
Okay right
Z
01:25
Zack
In reply to this message
the light node has a button for opening up your key file.
P
01:25
Psdev
so full node needs port 8081 and/or 8085 to accept mining? or just 8080 ?
Z
01:26
Zack
8080 is for the node consensus stuff. 8085 is for mining. 8081 is internal. not externally accessed.
P
01:26
Psdev
thanks
Z
01:26
Zack
8081 is for other apps on the same computer
01:26
the mining pool uses 8081 to talk to the full node
OK
01:27
O K
Okay well it's the right public key in my miner.erl ... I guess I didn't really mine a block
01:27
BH4t
01:29
Apparently not on my other device that reported a block mined early in the day either T_T
BPcOTB
01:29
That's disheartening
Z
01:30
Zack
try using my mining pool. it is giving out lots of rewards
OK
01:30
O K
I've been on your mining pool since launch 😕
01:30
on multiple devices
Z
01:31
Zack
oh. then guess you are like me. we have slow computers
OK
01:31
O K
:]
Z
01:32
Zack
Has anyone bought or sold any Veo yet?
OK
01:34
O K
If I had I would have $100,000 ^_-
F
01:35
Francesco @ Simply
is a restart from 0 still on the table?
N
01:35
N
Zack what do the economics look like? Ie emissions rates; expected supply in ten years
Z
01:36
Zack
In reply to this message
I estimate a 85% chance we will restart from 0 within the next 30 days.
01:36
In reply to this message
I don't know. the community will decide by using the governance mechanism.
N
01:37
N
What’s the emissions rate for the first 6 mo?
OK
01:37
O K
I have so little veo it's Not even a Number T_T
Z
01:37
Zack
I don't know.
I
01:39
Iridescence
I think the governance variables are somewhere in the github
01:40
You should be able to find them and check what their current values are
OK
01:47
O K
So now that I have this VPS node up, I can't mine to it without a mining pool? Is mining pool software on the github?
R(
01:47
Rlyyy (Mr Green)
In reply to this message
Can you pin that message? 😄 So that everyone who is too busy to check the group on a regular basis can see the status of the launch
OK
01:48
O K
shit.
01:48
thanks for being so helpful
Z
01:49
Zack
The first day of Amoveo was a mixture of success and failure. Over all, I am guessing we have about 15% chance to survive to the end of the month. Please don't invest too much.
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo
Zack pinned this message
Z
01:49
Zack
In reply to this message
good idea
M
01:50
Mike
In reply to this message
Thanks
I
01:54
Iridescence
We need a Joker to fight the Batman
Silov joined group by link from Group
01:57
Deleted Account
is the public minepool down?
01:57
my miner doesn't work now
D
01:57
D
Looks to be down
Z
01:57
Zack
In reply to this message
yes. restarting now. thank you for saying.
01:57
now I just need to hire someone to reboot my node every 20 minutes
01:57
Deleted Account
D
01:58
D
Tried mining to my own pool but it's so difficult to remain in sync that I think it's wasted unless you have the most mining power and drive the head of the chain
01:58
Deleted Account
can I leave it here and go to sleep?
P|
01:58
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
what is the best way to create a pub/private key?
D
01:59
D
In reply to this message
Bash while loop to start services and pkill erlang processes in another console?
Z
01:59
Zack
In reply to this message
you are right. but things will get better once we retarget at height 2000.
01:59
In reply to this message
yes. this is a slow growing project. there is no critical moment that you need to be here.
02:00
In reply to this message
doing it off-line in cold storage is a good way.
02:00
In reply to this message
but cold storage is a lot of work.
Generating a key in your browser light node is a lot less effort. but it is also less secure.
02:01
the erlang full node is not very secure with keys. your password is getting written to the log file.
I
02:01
Iridescence
You can take a look at the JavaScript code in the light node wallet to see how the private key is generated to a public key
02:01
Deleted Account
anyone know why my node height isn't updating api:height()?
P|
02:02
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Zack Hey. Thanks man. I'll probably help on the easier-to-use UI if I have time
D
02:03
D
Zack it may be worth looking into copying bitcoind RPC calls in the node so exchanges can plug-and-play amoveo
Z
02:03
Zack
In reply to this message
I forgot to do sync_mode:normal(). sorry. is it working after the next block?
D
02:03
D
At least for sending money and getting balances etc
Z
02:04
Zack
In reply to this message
you will change the browser light node?
P
02:04
Psdev
is there an easy way to issue the sync_mode:normal(). command without running amoveo_core attach? Because when I exit the attach, it stops the node.
D
02:05
D
In reply to this message
Both sides will have to change, but I can help with the javascript side sure
P
02:05
Psdev
how to start sync_mode normal automatically on start?
Z
02:05
Zack
In reply to this message
hold the control key, and press D
02:06
to exit amoveo without shutting it down
P
02:06
Psdev
nice, thanks
P
02:09
Philipp
hey, is the full node generating a new private/public key set on build?
Z
02:10
Zack
no. it generates a new one if you don't have one yet.
Then it stores it for the future in _build/prod/rel/amoveo-core/keys/keys.db
I
02:10
Iridescence
Zack, is your mining pool address the one that starts with BGDXG ?
P
02:10
Philipp
ah ok, thx!
Z
02:10
Zack
In reply to this message
yes.
I
02:11
Iridescence
Ok, good to see that it's getting blocks
Z
02:12
Zack
yes.
02:14
Deleted Account
Heya. I run a ui dev team, we're interested in experimenting with Amoveo and would like to explore building useful projects for the project under an insured crowdfund, as explained in the docs. We've built similar stuff in the past, for large numbers of users, so proven ability to execute.

1. If we move forward with this, we'd like to be as helpful as we can. I was thinking wallets, block explorer, stuff for desktop/mobile, additions to the node so it's easier for exchanges to list, etc. More ideas are welcome.

We were thinking June/July would be a decent time to suggest this as some (ofc not all) of the kinks will have been worked out and we could be reasonably confident there's a main chain. Zack - any comments on this? No rush, I get that you're busy with the launch. Just thought I'd start the conversation early and get a bit of context: on chain oracles and insured crowdfunding are fascinating to us, would like to see how it works from the contributor side, and give feedback once we've tried.
02:15
And of course, congrats on the milestone! Mixed success is still a big step forward. :)
Z
02:15
Zack
In reply to this message
Sounds great. I will probably invest in this insured crowdfund.
I can help you use Amoveo for this.
DB joined group by link from Group
I
02:17
Iridescence
It would be a nice demo of Amoveo
Dev joined group by link from Group
Z
02:24
Zack
about 30 terahashes of work went into building Amoveo in it's first 7.5 hours.
That would take my computer over 3 years.
DB invited Kuandyk Tleuzhanuly
I
02:29
Iridescence
Haha
02:30
It seems that Zack's pool is now paying out to Mandel's pool
Z
02:30
Zack
haha. that is funny
I
02:30
Iridescence
Zack and Mandel have combined to fight the Batman!
Z
02:30
Zack
how can you tell?
I
02:30
Iridescence
Looking at recent transactions
02:31
I see that BGDXG... Is sending to BKyLq...
Z
02:31
Zack
I didn't think this was possible
I
02:31
Iridescence
Why not?
02:31
It's just addresses
02:32
But if people in Mandel's pool know about this they should just join Zack's pool
Z
02:32
Zack
windows miners can't join my pool
I
02:33
Iridescence
🧐
02:33
Deleted Account
That was my question... Was anybody able to make Mandel's Windows Miner work with Zack's pool? I get "500 Sleep and retry" when I point it to http://159.89.106.253:8085
D
02:34
D
Malb need to modify USE_SHARE_POOL to 0
02:34
Deleted Account
Thanks will try
Z
02:34
Zack
wow, you guys made them compatible. that is so cool. I couldn't figure it out.
P
02:36
Philipp
im trying to mine with the pool -define(Peer, "http://159.89.106.253:8085/")., it keeps saying "did not find a block in that period". also my account balance is still 0, is that normal?
D
02:37
D
Normal. Just tells you it's still working
Z
02:37
Zack
In reply to this message
sounds good. you are mining.
D
02:37
D
It will say you found a block when you do
P
02:38
Philipp
ok cool. when i mine for a pool, doesn't that mean, the paypouts get split accoring to my hashing power that i provide to the pool?
D
02:38
D
Zack I have found a few blocks with your miner and your pool but my balance is still 0. BOTs85pC/Abn3XwuYek+F/5p+mNzl6mujUtbfoJYwVNwE5GVE6MXhIue1ThFsxYabYgg54IAeTaZQAd+K92y4Eg=
sd
02:38
steel dan
In reply to this message
someone has compiled a gpu miner, I guess!
D
02:39
D
Also seems amoveopool.com's node's height has fallen behind http://52.234.133.196:8080/explorer.html
Z
02:39
Zack
In reply to this message
with the pool I made you only get paid if you find a block. I think Mandel's pool does what you describe
sd
02:39
steel dan
In reply to this message
and keeping it for himself, ofc
D
02:41
D
In reply to this message
Zack's pool sends 0.7 of 1.0 reward to whoever mines the block. A share is a block solve in this case. It's more of a way for people to mine without setting up their own node than a standard pool
I
02:41
Iridescence
I am working on a CUDA miner and will share it with the community when it is ready
s
02:42
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
🙏
D
02:42
D
In reply to this message
Any reason not opencl?
Z
02:42
Zack
In reply to this message
Thanks for all this help answering questions D. You are so accurate, it is amazing.
D
02:43
D
In reply to this message
It's in the code :P
I
02:43
Iridescence
I am more familiar with CUDA, and my GPU is Nvidia
O
02:45
Oliver
Why does madelhoffs pool has 404s for the important parts of the webpage, but the Rest is working?
D
02:46
D
In reply to this message
He disabled them because the API calls to the node were causing it to crash in his opinion
O
02:48
Oliver
OK, but i still get balance for my cotribution to the pool hash rate?
D
02:50
D
I don't run the pool @Mandelhoff
O
02:51
Oliver
Maybe he cam give an update when he reads this. Thanks D.
P|
02:52
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Zack my miner said I found a block (using the default pool), but balance stays "NaN"
D
02:52
D
I think it is sending some txns out once when reach 1 Veo? http://amoveopool.com/transaction
MH
02:53
Mandel Hoff
Yes, I can't keep my erlang node alive for more than 15 minutes so I'm mining in to zack's node via my pool.
02:54
Deleted Account
what does that mean?
MH
02:54
Mandel Hoff
Yes, payouts from my pool should still be happening. I'm going to reduce my pool's block reward from 1.0 to 0.7, which is what I receive from Zack's pool. That should fix my pool from going broke and paying some people nothing.
02:54
Deleted Account
so if you get a block, you'd still distribute to all your connected miners?
G
02:55
Greg
In reply to this message
nice! this will help decentralisation, any ETA?
MH
02:55
Mandel Hoff
Yes, Tia - I just have less to distribute. 0.7 instead of 1.0.
02:55
Deleted Account
your mining, wallet, stats page aren't working
I
02:56
Iridescence
In reply to this message
Probably a couple of weeks, I can only work on it in my spare time.
MH
02:56
Mandel Hoff
Right, they just ddos the node even more. I don't want to crash Zack's node anymore than requesting work.
I
02:57
Iridescence
I will probably start asking for beta testers in about a week
O
02:58
Oliver
So we get only 0.7*0.901 = 0.6307 from the miner work, when we use amoveopool.com?
D
02:59
D
Yes but you also get less variance
02:59
I've solved maybe 5 blocks on Zack's pool and have 0.7 to show for it :P
MH
03:00
Mandel Hoff
Currently, yes. It's still shared payout, so if you aren't getting any blocks solo - you might want shared payouts.
O
03:00
Oliver
I am used to a 2% pool fee, this is really too much fee.
P
03:01
Philipp
seems like my node doesn't sync anymore after switching to sync_mode:normal().
D
03:01
D
In reply to this message
Agreed that the fees are huge, but remember this isn't traded anywhere and could be worth nothing if the main net fails. The pool owner has all risk atm
O
03:02
Oliver
Is it possible to mine veo without a pool ATM?
03:02
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
For which os are you making ?
MH
03:03
Mandel Hoff
If you run your own node and pool, you can make your own fees. That is welcome and encouraged.
I
03:03
Iridescence
In reply to this message
Ubuntu
D
03:04
D
In reply to this message
It's possible, but with the block solve time being way below 10mins and getwork being slower than some blocks are solved it's likely you will mine blocks that are not included in the network
03:04
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Will you be writing a windows version if its success
I
03:04
Iridescence
If there is an incentive for it
O
03:04
Oliver
In reply to this message
But it makes it difficult for New people to get on board. Our sharded interest is decentralization and Adoption. Too high fees are not good here.
I
03:04
Iridescence
Windows development is.... more complicated for me
03:06
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
👍
P
03:07
Philipp
if i try to mine with my own node it says: "If you are running a solo-mining node, then this error may have happened because you need to turn on and sync ... If this error happens while connected to the public mining node, then it can probably be safely ignored."
03:07
but sync is on and the node is in sync
03:07
Deleted Account
that means your node isn't sync'ed
P
03:08
Philipp
but it is
03:08
Deleted Account
or you aren't in normal mode
03:08
blocks and headers are the same?
I
03:08
Iridescence
sync_mode:normal().
P
03:08
Philipp
ok, usually it stops syncing once i'm in normal mode
03:09
Deleted Account
you wait for close to top height and switch to normal
03:09
that's what i do anyway
03:09
i have to restart and clear database once an hour
P
03:10
Philipp
it always stays behind 1/2 blocks
03:10
Deleted Account
yep does that
03:10
block times are too fast to stay sync'ed
03:11
you have to get sync'ed and then mine blocks fast to get in front.. sucks, but should be ok after diff adjustment
P
03:13
Philipp
ok, also i don't understand what port to use. default node port is 8080, but default port for local node in miner.erl is 8081
03:14
Deleted Account
don't mess with ports i haven't
D
03:14
D
Public node: 8080, private node: 8081, public pool: 8085
03:14
Deleted Account
default worked for me
03:14
yes
P
03:14
Philipp
so, i have my node run on a digitalocean droplet on port 8080, but my miner will connect to 8081?
03:15
miner runs on my local machine
D
03:15
D
Best option until block 2000 is mine to http://159.89.106.253:8085
03:15
Deleted Account
i have the exact same setup and you don't have to mess with ports..
03:15
just setup the software and edit ip address and public address on the miner
O
03:16
Oliver
Diff adjustment after all 2k Blocks?
P
03:17
Philipp
In reply to this message
and pub key
D
03:17
D
In reply to this message
Yup
P
03:17
Philipp
ah thats whay oyu said, sorry
03:17
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
pub key/ pub address same thing
03:18
private key / public address
03:18
different
OK
03:22
O K
I just read the readme for the mining pool, can someone help clarify?
03:22
I have the node running on the VPS
03:23
I should leave the node running, and in another terminal, ??, clone the git for the pool, and then start the pool in the separate instance with sh start.sh and sh attach.sh?
D
03:26
D
Yes exactly
03:26
Run tmux or screen to make it easy
OK
03:28
O K
Interesting thank you, so ... sorry I've never used these before, I'm going to stop the node and install tmux or screen on the VPS, and then run it, and then start the node again and proceed?
03:32
Awesome
steel dan invited V P
D
03:36
Denis
Have somebody get opencl miner running? I'm getting gcc errors: unrecognized command line option '-framework' and OpenCL: no such file or directory while running compile.sh under ubuntu 16.04. I have installed drivers and OpenCL SDK before trying to compile, but not 100% sure if installation was successful.
OK
03:38
O K
You just changed my life by mentioning these things D thank you
D
03:39
D
In reply to this message
tmux is best, but both are amazing for productivity. Also if you have four panes open with logs scrolling in one it makes people think you are doing serious stuff :P
03:40
One tail -f /var/log/syslog away from being
03:40
OK
03:41
O K
hahaha
O
03:48
Oliver
How much MH do you mine?
D
03:48
D
~500 blocks until adjustment
O
03:49
Oliver
I have 2 quadcore CPUs and I get around 40-50 MHs
D
03:52
D
Between 60-70 atm I think. Definitely not batman
03:52
He should have mined to Zack's node
03:53
Deleted Account
Any one had luck in finding a block? I am mining from morning on mandels pool but still 0.
P|
03:57
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
how many veo per block now?
03:59
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
I got 1 block solo mining
04:01
Deleted Account
Thats with 10 octacore proccessors right ?
O
04:05
Oliver
In reply to this message
How many CPUs do you use and which types?
D
04:06
D
I have a few dual xeon's working away that had* some spare resources available :)
P|
04:07
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
D How much hashrate do you get per core?
D
04:08
D
Not in front of a console atm I can say later
P|
04:08
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Thank :)
04:16
my node's saying block absorber dies and tx_pool_feeder died
04:16
what should I do?
04:16
Deleted Account
txpool is nothing
Z
04:17
Zack
In reply to this message
Not necessarily a problem.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
P|
04:19
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
I've been solomining on the node, and found a couple of blocks but doen't have change in the balance
04:19
Deleted Account
I do that. not at top height
04:28
Deleted Account
i got 4.25 veo
04:31
Deleted Account
it says I'm mining but my block height is 0, whats going on?
04:31
it's not showing the 'absorb blocks' when I start amoveo like it did before, now it's an input for commands
D
04:31
D
In reply to this message
Your node is likely syncing slower than blocks are being solved and than new work being sent out to your miner. I'd take the 30% loss at Zack's pool. Even amoveopool.com is mining off of his pool atm
04:33
Deleted Account
amoveopool.com/Wallet is broken unfortunately
04:33
figured out how to sync nvm
OK
04:40
O K
Cannot allocate 367904368 bytes of memory (of type "old_heap").
Z
04:42
Zack
BATman has about 900 tokens out of a total of about 1600.
OK
04:42
O K
Including other addresses we assume to be him?
Z
04:42
Zack 
420000000 BOTs85pC/Abn3XwuYek+F/5p+mNzl6mujUtbfoJYwVNwE5GVE6MXhIue1ThFsxYabYgg54IAeTaZQAd+K92y4Eg=
425803558 BK8i+BBDW93etv1aZosHJDkxj8J5hWsJNTSusjHWkDXim9DnNxDEqtxpByqDHwMvghAiGEo7yomEj+ZoSUNJfF0=
429949934 BAJjbMF6rajiZN/cwPs3jDaWwt1rgpu6w5GZ3CpC6kgPdY47DSCU6u3zM96Z9E6BaoWf+osLBCY4MF/WXFbYsOo=
480893318 BKHhT3pOKjyLsYxDj3ESj+Xr2a/WU+SFWSlYJEkFqeouSdWMcvjruxHFCN9M7MHKtroOb8fIvCBYRfOT63Uxblo=
512846385 BKV+hn/9S6QLckdSOpiS/CCQQ75Je+uHNAAWxkvCoHhL8Vv7eq17mQhT3PO1bTtIwgzYWWyAErZ8UUcAwJBGnaI=
604558355 BNZW28XJtPgaYfCbxrO2K4JrBUaILv6ubR0aywoaVLctlcFplWmw3wQJ++8yQYXaJ+ersVIAwvOcR1zJUgpCGG8=
621257142 BFuPYRbXEryU42prZmlp0sLBjk1XZFNh0yRIq4CZOG49UgDC7uETsDw1Kd+/1QbeCn24uXyFdxVvcDxU/SllXGs=
630133346 BMiJ70jHZjHjQlx8XZGypzCJGzNchrXRAMrIRZGj8i58UBq/j9V9LdYve3oU9ZMZ/WAuD2r2l6ggk4HPA0DhhAc=
678739808 BGDXGmovuTEr3CFfzY0xr0zXS3purkIPPZsljZv4gvQe87K6W8be1IpwDwmqhgcSIlhTvb9Q7pgrl+h2dmXGEXM=
1279396188 BCRGTI7SacLqvWe+pl8svnrHMCX/HY/aYGka4zqZXIBcSL9K+3Ra2+guOEW1G3/hWGarKAyNeTqiDc90eG7XYrI=
1403400119 BF8i3nrwyEuu5PKZuidwX+OjuzWyaYEbSOf9Il5d4eH0V6YiFKw3TW+Zp75fu06RXtgiqLadxkjdTpiU67KgEAo=
1582479497 BGqJUIdev29tUoG1QiuupB7NJXz05z0DepTWZ2bZC3VCopaXppmSNjOF92whP0Py9KzxzJTgZGwHJTb1lhFdidM=
7553377068 BEUPZZqVe77E7Z1AAVAMLeqKJ1F1Dpu3pp09GaB7kdEtvkjGZu+ksOOJ1tXFtpdlap5dhr+ic889rwqE1Y+4pQ8=
11290000000 BCjdlkTKyFh7BBx4grLUGFJCedmzo4e0XT1KJtbSwq5vCJHrPltHATB+maZ+Pncjnfvt9CsCcI9Rn1vO+fPLIV4=
17477850723 BOvlUiLRFemrmj4NlF6vf+At8BCxL4l+uTKEWFJPHqp8XDykuuusPOU4giGMyF+LTA8r4kxf5z9DmAKDwjBGUPk=
22125321978 BKyLqCvF5vt7KBiPLId7xlW64Bb/uV+icPnvn5mgEKncqlCKiaXUTkRcZv7iYK3GKxSspNh0leIhc4YA+DJAY/s=
42156969475 BL0SzhkFGFW1kTTdnO8sGnwPEzUvx2U2nyECwWmUJPRhLxbPPK+ep8eYMxlTxVO/wnQS5WmsGIKcrPP7/Fw1WVc=
89904150024 BATman9wDh0c8K45+MUvXATNROMEtjPQMHXHBHjthmLcCMwF2ESAkh3i3ga5WwhICMjzWfExfQwig7WruIvqtG0=
Priyatham joined group by link from Group
Z
04:43
Zack
Mandel's pool has over 221.2, he has 3rd most.
04:44
2nd most is the master pub key for developer reward at 421 VEO.
04:44
4th is BovluiL.... I don't know who that is. they have 174.8
04:46
5th is BCjdlkT.... which is one of my addresses. it has 113 VEO.
04:46
Deleted Account
0.7 hallelujah
Z
04:46
Zack
The rest I don't know about
04:46
there are 50 accounts so far
OK
04:46
O K
.7 too
04:47
Deleted Account
This is painful 😊
04:49
Deleted Account
I have NaN balance😋
D
04:50
D
In reply to this message
I'm BOTs85pC
Z
04:50
Zack
I didn't include the developer reward in the market cap calculated on each block.
04:50
In reply to this message
cool
D
04:51
D
310 blocks left..
Z
04:55
Zack
90% of VEO controlled by 4 people.
MH
04:56
Mandel Hoff
My pool payouts are all messed up. I paid out on a bunch of blocks that got thrown away, and now my address isn't coin base so all the auto payments are broken from that.
04:56
I'd really recommend not using my pool in the current state of things.
04:56
Deleted Account
Now i know why i am not getting paid
04:57
Deleted Account
lol
Z
04:57
Zack
BATman has about 45% of token
04:59
I haven had to reboot my node in like 3 or 4 hours. Maybe the fix worked and it wont crash any more.
04:59
Deleted Account
ok, so in short, windows miner cannot be used
04:59
Deleted Account
Yes
05:00
Deleted Account
😡
05:00
Deleted Account
Zack what do you recommend solo or pool ?
05:00
Deleted Account
i'd say solo but i've been having issues get myself to sync and stay sync.
MH
05:01
Mandel Hoff
Until 2k, you'd never stay in sync with Zack's node.
Z
05:01
Zack
In reply to this message
Join my pool. we will both make more VEO.
05:06
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Done.
OK
05:06
O K
according to wallet.html I'm caught up after restart from crash
05:06
according to block:height(). I'm 0
05:06
problem?
05:07
Deleted Account
Your pool is shared pool i only get paid if i find a block ?
Z
05:07
Zack
In reply to this message
wallet.html shows headers, not blocks.
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/getting-started/sync.md
05:07
In reply to this message
correct. you get paid if you find a block.
05:07
Deleted Account
👍
05:08
Deleted Account
is it possible to find blocks by using a normal i7 cpu on Zacks pool now? or is Mandels pool finding most of the blocks?
Z
05:09
Zack
In reply to this message
I think that my pool is finding all the blocks.
You can do a speed test to measure how many mh/s your computer does.
05:11
Deleted Account
Mandel, how difficult is it to make your window miner work with Zack's pool?
Z
05:12
Zack
In reply to this message
D said: need to modify USE_SHARE_POOL to 0
05:13
I don't know if that works
D
05:14
Denis
In reply to this message
Looks like nobody using GPU miner now.
05:16
Deleted Account
Is Batman tromp?
05:17
He might have written a better implementation
Z
05:17
Zack
I think not.
05:18
lots of people visiting the Amoveo reddit today
O
05:19
Oliver
And lots of people joined Telegramm group. It is growing fast.
05:20
Deleted Account
What is the biggest risk that could effect us not getting to the end of the month? A segfault in the code? A consensus error?
I
05:21
Iridescence
Batman mines all the blocks
05:23
Deleted Account
i went into the day thinking I might get 2 VEO per day.. seems like i was right.. sucks that other have so much, but I don't have so much computing power
Z
05:23
Zack
In reply to this message
1) there could be a bunch of forks at the same time, and we are unable to agree on which fork to continue with. (almost happened today)
2) there could be a hyperiflation event, where one person gets a ton of tokens, and the rest of us find this unacceptable. (almost happened today).
3) someone could have better mining hardware than the rest of us, and use their power to shut us down. (might be happening already.)
4) there might be a security vulnerability where coins get stolen, and we aren't able to identify which transactions are theft txs.
S
05:24
Silov
so i'm facing issues in syncing blocks
05:24
stuck at block 0
05:25
how much time does it take to sync for a fresh node?
05:25
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
couple minutes to sync
Z
05:25
Zack
it should sync about 25-50 blocks per second.
S
05:26
Silov
*could not get block 250 from peer [-7,[-7,209,250,250,137],8080]* it's stuck here
Z
05:26
Zack
In reply to this message
do sync:start().
S
05:27
Silov
In reply to this message
yeah did that. it happens after this only
Z
05:28
Zack
peero 209.250... isn't synced with the network. you need to download from someone different.
sync:start(). selects one of your peers at random.
05:28
oh nvm. 209.250 is synced
S
05:29
Silov
In reply to this message
is there a way to manually define the peer on inital sync?
Z
05:29
Zack
yes.
05:30
api:txs({1,2,3,4}, 8080).
Z
05:30
Zack
In reply to this message
Thanks OK. I notice now I shared the wrong link. You are sharing what I meant to share
OK
05:31
O K
It's funny because I did spend some time reading the code, and forgot why I was there x)
05:31
So I just attach.sh my mining pool
05:31
what's the easiest way to confirm success?
Z
05:32
Zack
In reply to this message
confirm success of what?
OK
05:32
O K
Well, that my pool is good to go and ready for miners
Z
05:33
Zack
try connecting a miner to it, and see if the miner crashes
OK
05:33
O K
fair enough
Z
05:33
Zack
for me it is easy. the JS miner is already set up. I jut hit the "start mining" button in the light node
OK
05:33
O K
ah, good idea, then I can use som eresources that aren't tied up with your pool
S
05:34
Silov
In reply to this message
thanks. do you know of a node ip which is fully synced? using 159.89.106.253:8080 just returns 0
Z
05:34
Zack
common issues:
you need sync_mode:normal(). before you can have a mining pool.
You need to unlock your keys keys:unlock(""). so you can pay out rewards
Asmodat | KIRA Staking | WON'T PM YOU FIRST joined group by link from Group
OK
05:35
O K
What if I do not payout, will the pool keep all? All workers using my pool are working for the same wallet
05:35
And thank you
Z
05:35
Zack
the mining pool pays 70000000 per block found.
I think you would have to modify the code.
You can comment out the one line that spends the 70000000
05:36
or just let it pay all the rewards. the tx fee isnt' that bad
05:36
152000 satoshi
05:36
1/650 of a block reward
OK
05:36
O K
@Silov try 159,89,106,253 the default pool address
S
05:37
Silov
In reply to this message
yeah i tried that. for some reason it gives me an error "could not get block 250"
05:37
i tried make prod-restart. still the same again. my headers are synced
Z
05:38
Zack
are you using the recent version of the software?
S
05:38
Silov
In reply to this message
yeah i just downloaded. was there an update in the past 30 mins? sorry i may have missed it
OK
05:38
O K
make prod-clean?
Z
05:40
Zack
I did this
make prod-restart
sync:start().
sync:start().
and now it is syncing the blocks.
The first sync:start() connected to someone who didn't have blocks.
S
05:42
Silov
In reply to this message
i'm gonna re-download the repo and try
05:42
having same issue
Z
05:43
Zack
150 blocks left until the retarget. at that point hopefully we will all be able to mine.
MH
05:46
Mandel Hoff
👍
S
05:46
Silov
In reply to this message
seems to work after a clean git clone
Z
05:47
Zack
In reply to this message
great
05:49
Here is a picture of bandwidth consumption on my server
05:49
it is getting kind of expensive
05:49
all outbound
05:49
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Wouldnt difficulty increase after 2000 blocks which should make harder for us mine ?
Z
05:50
Zack
In reply to this message
yes, it makes it harder to mine.
When blocks are too fast there are lots of tiny forks, and your block is more likely to not be included in the main chain.
Once difficulty is higher, then the rate of blocks will be slower. So when you find a block, it will probably be included in mainchain.
OK
05:51
O K
My node light wallet does not show the start mining button
05:51
sync mode is normal and keys unlocked
Z
05:51
Zack
In reply to this message
what is the URL for your light wallet?
05:52
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Oh i see.
A
05:52
Asmodat | KIRA Staking | WON'T PM YOU FIRST
what is te current block time ?
Z
05:52
Zack
In reply to this message
it has a "start mining" button.
OK
05:52
O K
😨
Z
05:52
Zack
In reply to this message
less than 1 minute I think.
once we retarget, it should take 10 minutes per block.
A
05:53
Asmodat | KIRA Staking | WON'T PM YOU FIRST
some ppl said 10 minutes i looked up in the hsistorry
05:53
ok thank you
OK
05:53
O K
11 hours, 1888 blocks
05:53
2.86 blocks per minute so far
05:53
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
That will make it super difficult to mine on cpu 😲
05:54
In reply to this message
mathematical!
A
05:55
Asmodat | KIRA Staking | WON'T PM YOU FIRST
is this pool working ?
Z
05:55
Zack
In reply to this message
I think it is not working well right now
A
05:55
Asmodat | KIRA Staking | WON'T PM YOU FIRST
or you guys just do solo
OK
05:55
O K
Don't follow those directions involving that URL
05:56
go to his github
05:56
this can connect to my pool
OK
05:56
O K
👍
05:57
I don't understand why the "start mining" buttons are intermittently there
Z
05:58
Zack
In reply to this message
wow! I haven't seen this before.
Do you know how to open the developer console?
It probably has an error message to tell us what is going on.
05:58
Thank you for this helpful error report
OK
05:58
O K
Before I refreshed, your pool actually showed it but mine did not!!
05:58
I was straining my eyes haaha
05:58
I use a lot of extensions, let me disable ublock origin really quick
A
05:58
Asmodat | KIRA Staking | WON'T PM YOU FIRST
what is total supply ?
OK
05:59
O K
It's ublock!!!
A
05:59
Asmodat | KIRA Staking | WON'T PM YOU FIRST
so community decides on issuance rate and its uncap ?
Z
06:00
Zack
In reply to this message
what is that for?
OK
06:00
O K
modern adblocking
06:01
It wasn't blocking it earlier, so someone filtered it today
Z
06:01
Zack
In reply to this message
229531957550 satoshi at height 1910.
about 2300 VEO.
06:01
In reply to this message
yes.
S
06:10
Silov
has anyone managed to use the windows miner to mine for their own node?
OK
06:21
O K
What are the problems with windows miner?
S
06:22
Silov
In reply to this message
if i point it to my node it just gives an error: Getwork failed.....
OK
06:23
O K
I see, you mean @Mandelhoff 's miner
Z
06:23
Zack
In reply to this message
the windows miner only works with the mining pool that Mandel wrote.
OK
06:23
O K
Will the amoveo-c-miner work on windows, if not what are the problems?
06:23
Has anyone tried the opencl miner on windows?
S
06:23
Silov
In reply to this message
ah i see, i believe there was something mentioned as a solution
Z
06:23
Zack
In reply to this message
I don't know. I dont' have windows to try it out.
06:24
I think it should be pretty easy to install on windows. if you figure it out, please share the instructions
OK
06:24
O K
I'll give the openCL a try on windows
06:24
Yes, will do
Z
06:24
Zack
OpenCL is not working so well, and it is very difficult to install
OK
06:24
O K
On windows too?
Z
06:24
Zack
I do not own a windows computer. I have no idea.
OK
06:24
O K
We don't have ideas why right
06:24
I'm assuming varying OpenCL sources?
Z
06:25
Zack
I have not tried at all
OK
06:25
O K
Well you use the openCL miner with success on Mac right?
06:26
I have several devices I can toy around with
06:26
none of them are very powerful but can help troubleshoot
Z
06:26
Zack
yes, I think it was working. it is about 2x faster than the C miner
06:26
I included a speed test
D
06:26
D
1 block left..
Z
06:27
Zack
we are on block 2000.
Lets see if we can survive, or if the difficulty is too high that we die
06:27
Deleted Account
why do we die if its too hard
Z
06:27
Zack
if everyone stops mining, it would take me like a year to find a block with my computer
06:28
Deleted Account
oh yeah
Z
06:28
Zack
no one wants to wait 12 months for a payment
06:28
and 3 more years if you want confirmations
06:28
Deleted Account
i dont see that being an issue reall
06:28
even if batman quit
06:28
should only be like, what, 1 hour blocks?
OK
06:28
O K
if batman quit?
Z
06:29
Zack
I think batman disappeared long ago
I
06:29
Iridescence
Newcomers will be like "Batman wtf?"
Z
06:29
Zack
got 900 blocks, then left
06:29
Deleted Account
And increased the difficulty for us
D
06:29
D
Difficulty at 10,061 now up from 8.8k
06:29
Deleted Account
if a huge miner increases the difficulty and then leaves when difficulty resets higher, then blocks are founder slower, but if they are still mining it shoudl be 10 minute blocks, or possibly slower, but would mine blocks
06:30
didnt realize batman left
06:30
Deleted Account
Maybe he will be back for another 900 round
I
06:30
Iridescence
🦇
OK
06:31
O K
ಠ_ಠ
I
06:32
Iridescence
10k difficulty is pretty high
Z
06:32
Zack
where did you read the difficulty?
I
06:32
Iridescence
Just following what D said
D
06:32
D
curl -i -d '["mining_data"]' http://localhost:8081
s
06:33
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
i think we should set block reward to 1000 rather than 1
Z
06:33
Zack
In reply to this message
awesome, thanks
s
06:33
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
notional value per coin will be too high for humans (altho just fine for robots)
A
06:33
Asmodat | KIRA Staking | WON'T PM YOU FIRST
how do you get hash speed on ubuntu ?
Z
06:35
Zack
looks like the difficulty is 20x higher than before the retarget
06:35
In reply to this message
look at the readme.
06:36
Deleted Account
thats probably good
06:36
also, we should set up some markets for mining reward i think
06:36
i have no idea how to do that
A
06:36
Asmodat | KIRA Staking | WON'T PM YOU FIRST
oh I am stupid, sorry it works
Z
06:37
Zack
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/tests/market.py
Here is how to use the API to make a market.
06:38
Deleted Account
should we create a market for mining rewards?
Z
06:38
Zack
In reply to this message
Here is an example on how to use the governance version of the oracle.

https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_core/src/consensus/txs/test_txs.erl#L596
06:39
we found 1 block!
looks like we will survive
06:39
Deleted Account
and in a reasonable amount of time too
06:42
Question = «»,
MH
06:43
Mandel Hoff
I started mining to my pool again, so coinbase-payouts should work there again. My node may die again though. I suggest we all expect it to be down often still.
D
06:47
D
In reply to this message
Can we get the miner page back up?
06:47
Deleted Account
im solo mining and haven't had any problems with staying alive
Z
06:47
Zack
In reply to this message
Yes. The question needs to be empty for governance oracles.
06:47
In reply to this message
Great
06:48
In reply to this message
Great. Thanks for this report
06:48
Deleted Account
we'll see if i find any blocks though :P
06:48
looks like block speed is good
Z
06:49
Zack
2003. Looking good yes
06:50
Amoveo survived 12 hours, and the first retargeting period. We have already surpassed my expectations. Lets keep it up.
06:51
In reply to this message
very cool. Can you describe the hardware?
This is 420 times faster than my computer
I
06:52
Iridescence
Why would you be banned? 😳
06:52
Deleted Account
apparently its frowned upon
I
06:52
Iridescence
Is it a service you are paying for?
06:52
Deleted Account
yeah
Z
06:52
Zack
they probably charge prices thinking that people will use 10% cpu load on average
06:53
Deleted Account
yeah, that sounds likely
06:54
i intend to just buy veo from others, but i doubt anyone will be selling for awhile
D
06:54
Denis
In reply to this message
You can use Amazon AWS. Never got banned for mining here. And good prices if hire spot instances.
06:55
Deleted Account
and i suspect mining reward will icnrease from 1 to a much higher value like 100 or 1000, so i think mining right now is probably not profitable at all
MH
06:55
Mandel Hoff
In reply to this message
No, I want to see if my node can stay stable before enabling the dashboard back on. I would love to turn them back on, but I'm afraid it will break quick.
06:56
Deleted Account
i think its pretty safe to bet on the mining reward now that difficulty is reset, it would be interesting to try this
D
06:56
D
In reply to this message
Which API calls is it making to the node? I will see if I can reliably break it
Z
06:57
Zack
In reply to this message
yes, we should probably do this soon.
MH
06:57
Mandel Hoff
Block height and wallet balance are probably what's causing it.
06:58
I have to leave a while. Sorry if my pool goes down while I'm away. 🙈
s
06:59
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
In reply to this message
can we pump it really high?
06:59
like 1k or 10k?
Z
07:00
Zack
We can increase it by about 50% per 1000 block period.

We can change a different governance variable to decrease the period from 1000 blocks to less, that way we can increase the block reward more frequently.
07:01
I have about hit my limit too. I think I need to leave to sleep a few hours. I will be back to help change governance variables soon.
s
07:01
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
oh thats cool
07:01
Deleted Account
i think 1000 is plenty
s
07:01
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
actually having governance onchain is awesome
Z
07:02
Zack
yeah, I agree. It is one of the big innovations of Amoveo.
It is enabled by our new oracle design.
07:02
Deleted Account
yes, governance on chain is amazing i hope it works well
07:02
my biggest complaint with other chains, like dpos, is they hard code all the variables and you get stuck with $3 fees despite have a delegation system (lisk)
Z
07:04
Zack
I was inspired by stuff Paul Sztorc wrote about getting the community to come to consensus about hard forks
07:05
Deleted Account
Even though I did not mine a dime I learnt today a lot so it was a good day
S
07:05
Silov
In reply to this message
what are the specs if i may ask?
07:07
Deleted Account
so thats much more expensive than the single 1 cpu
07:07
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Will he ever launch hivemind?
S
07:09
Silov
ok. thanks ryan
07:11
Deleted Account
i think mining for profit right now is a waste of time, since the reward of 1 is most likely to only increase or stay the same
07:12
so if the reward doubles but hash rate does not, what you spent for coins is now cut in half, youd lose half your money
Deleted joined group by link from Group
Deleted joined group by link from Group
s
07:25
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
regardless of mining profits, the supply is just to scarce right now. people wont be able to purchase one whole token.

i think ideally we should shoot for a notional value such that 1 VEO is about $1 when amoveo starts onboarding real users actually using the chain to do stuff. (for example cryptokitties collector vs ETH speculator, to make an ethereum analogy)
07:25
Deleted Account
if thats the righ tmove, and the governance works, then thats whats going to happen
07:26
its pretty common opinion that higher supply and low inflation is good
s
07:26
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
8 guesses would have to go into that, and in reality we will never get all that close, but a notional of $50k/VEO. will hurt adoption a ton
07:26
Deleted Account
since this is proof of work with 0 supply, that means inflation has to initially start out extremely high
s
07:26
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
In reply to this message
yep yep
07:26
Deleted Account
that also means that mining right now with a reward of 1 is likely "burning" money
s
07:27
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
i agree with all that. just laying our a framework to get a real answer
07:27
rather than a qualitative, more is better
07:28
Deleted Account
we'll have to see how governance betting works, i think were going to try it tonight
07:28
ill probably place a bet that very high reward is good right now
07:28
like ~1000 per block
07:30
i believe the optimal supply is probably around 100 billion
OK
07:30
O K
@Zack can you help me understand what these dependencies are, more broadly than the ubuntu apt 'tag'
07:31
erlang and git are obvious, so is G++ probably...
07:31
libncurses5-dev libssl-dev unixodbc-dev g++
07:33
anyone here use choclatey or scoop (anyone here use windows, I don't)
Jim joined group by link from Group
Z
07:38
Zack
In reply to this message
The governance mechanism incentivizes us to cooperate and have dialogue.
ill start increasing the block reward, but it will take 1000 blocks to work.
07:38
In reply to this message
g++ is needed for jiffy. it is a json encoder written in c++.
07:41
In reply to this message
I think libncurses is to help erlang print text. I think libssl-dev is needed by cowboy for http request. I am not sure about odbc.
maybe we don't need all these things, I have been adding and removing dependencies to Amoveo for a while, and I didn't keep track of all the sub-dependencies.

Rebar is automatically downloading some other dependencies.
OK
07:41
O K
I will start with minimal, and build up then
07:42
on the conservative side we definitely need: erlang
07:42
git to keep it simple
Z
07:43
Zack
great. thanks for the help OK
07:46
Deleted Account
what do you mean youll start increasing the difficulty?
07:46
Deleted Account
Maybe he meant block reward
Z
07:47
Zack
In reply to this message
yes, I meant block reward
07:48
Deleted Account
what happens when there are conflicting governnance markets
07:49
like one for 100 reward and another for 1000
07:49
or is it first come, or doesnt work like that at all?
07:55
Deleted Account
That's a sign of over working. You should take a break now for few hours.
Z
08:01
Zack
mcxWXI5sQPJYhELJ76bJljJFYPsLJqwt4R82T+0/Lbc=
Here is the ID for the governance oracle I am making to increase the block reward.
08:03
the oracle_new tx is in the transaction pool of my full node.
08:04
Amoveo survived 13 hours
08:04
Deleted Account
i am looking for it
08:04
not familiar with how to do this yet
Z
08:06
Zack
The oracle interface is still very raw. it will get easier as time goes on.
I am updating some docs about it now.
08:06
Deleted Account
ok
08:23
Deleted Account
trying to use keys:load(pubkey, privkey, "password"). and get the error ** exception error: no function clause matching keys:load
08:24
trying to connect my miner address to this node so i can use it to use the oracles, etc.
Z
08:24
Zack
In reply to this message
instead of transferring your private key, you should spend the VEO.
08:25
how did you even find out the private key?
08:25
Deleted Account
i created the address on a light wallet
Z
08:25
Zack
you can move your key to a different node by moving the keys.db file in _build/prod/rel/amoveo-core/keys/keys.db
08:25
the use the light node to spend the VEO
08:25
and wait for the next block
08:26
I think that the javascript key format is pretty different. I haven't tried writing a converter.
08:26
Deleted Account
will i be able to particpate in your governance oracle using the light wallet though
08:27
thats all im trying to do here anyways
Z
08:28
Zack
In reply to this message
no.
you can spend the veo to a full node, and then participate from there.
08:28
Deleted Account
ok
Z
08:28
Zack
I guess I could make a market on my full node, and you could use the light node to make a channel with my full node, an the market could be related to the governance oracle.
08:28
then you could participate indirectly
08:29
but I don't think we will do that.
08:29
the cost of locked up liquidity would be too high
08:29
Deleted Account
yeah im okay with the normal approach
08:37
i sent 1 over to my node, we'll see if it arrives
Z
08:37
Zack
great. thanks for testing out sending veo from the light node
08:38
Deleted Account
how many transactins have been done on mainnet so far?
Z
08:38
Zack
I see that the oracle_new tx correctly appears in block 2014
OK
08:38
O K
gresham's law states hold onto your veo
Z
08:39
Zack
In reply to this message
I think an average of 2.5 or 3 tx per block
08:39
so like 5000 txs
08:39
Deleted Account
nice
Z
08:40
Zack
we have a test where you process completely filled blocks as fast as you can. It still operates well at full capacity.
08:40
Deleted Account
so is it possible to extract the private key from this node?
Z
08:41
Zack
the full node?
yes it is possible, but it is not very easy.
You probably have to modify and recompile the erlang software
08:41
Deleted Account
ok
08:41
but i can just send the balanace back out when im done
Z
08:41
Zack
oh, there are a bunch of little commands you can do to read the file, and decrypt the key and change format
08:42
look in keys.erl
it is really not recommended
08:42
sending your veo to a new key is the better way
08:44
Deleted Account
yeah sounds fine
08:45
ill take a look at the oracle on block 2014, i should have some money to participate
Z
08:45
Zack
I just did a software upgrade so we wont waste so much bandwidth.
My bandwidth cost is getting too expensive. Please update your full nodes soon.
08:47
The network has been looking really solid since we retargeted. The nodes are staying in sync. the blocks propagate quickly.
I think solo-mining would probably work now.
MH
08:48
Mandel Hoff
My node has not crashed in 1hr+, so I turned on my pool dashboard. Time to live dangerously. 🙈
08:49
I'll monitor it for a couple hours. I'll probably turn off the dashboard if it crashes two times.
Z
08:49
Zack
cool. I see that the "oracle_new" transaction doesn't appear on your interface
MH
08:49
Mandel Hoff
No, I'm only parsing blocks for create, spend, and delete txs.
08:49
It doesn't mean it's not there - I'm just not parsing blocks for it yet.
08:54
Deleted Account
looks like my transfer didnt go through
Z
08:57
Zack
I made a bet in the oracle mcxWXI5sQPJYhELJ76bJljJFYPsLJqwt4R82T+0/Lbc=

I bet 0.5 VEO that having a higher block reward will be better.

I warn you, if you bet against me, we will use a hard for to make sure that you will lose the bet. because the community wants higher block reward.
08:58
In reply to this message
thanks for testing this out.
Is the tx in your mempool?
tx_pool:get().
08:58
if it is, you can share using sync:trade_txs(Peer).
Where Peer is someone from your list of peers peers:all().
08:59
37 people cloned the Amoveo full node software in the last 24 hours.
RL
09:00
R L
Hey all I've been away most of the day
09:00
Around 10 est I started the mandel win miner
09:00
Just got back and appears to be mining
09:01
Should I shut this down?
09:01
I don't see any balance
09:02
It's been going for about 11 hours
09:02
Mining on mandel pool
Z
09:03
Zack
Mandel's pool was down most of the day.
RL
09:03
R L
It's passing out work
09:04
It wasn't when I started it this morning
09:04
I just left it running
G
09:04
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
👍 node 51.15.212.91 updated & synced at height 2016
RL
09:05
R L
Also just using the prebuilt win miner from Mandel's repo
MH
09:05
Mandel Hoff
Sorry RW. My pool had a very bad day. I couldn't keep my erlang node and pool from crashing with the very fast first 2k blks.
RL
09:05
R L
Ah no worries!
09:05
Just wondering what happened.. if I should stop it or..
Z
09:06
Zack
In reply to this message
Awesome. Thank you Gonzalo
RL
09:06
R L
It's getting work from your pool
09:06
Right now anyway
MH
09:06
Mandel Hoff
It's been good since block 2k at the diff change, but it was garbage before that.
09:07
Deleted Account
i just saw block height over 2000
G
09:07
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
Thanks, going to update the others
09:13
Deleted Account
1 block all day.
09:15
Deleted Account
when do u think gpu is gonna be set up zack?
Z
09:18
Zack
I reduced my mining pool fee from 30% down to 3%.
09:18
so 97% of the profit goes to the miner now.
09:18
Deleted Account
is that in the pool mining code now
Z
09:18
Zack
yes, this is the new default in the mining pool code.
09:19
you need to git pull to update.
09:19
Deleted Account
cool
09:19
sure
09:20
no miners except me but i don’t want much stored in the node wallet
09:23
I’ll update soon but now people could connect with me and help keep me at top block height 😎 http://192.241.144.151:8080/wallet.html
Z
09:25
Zack
In reply to this message
you are in the list of peers on my server now
09:25
Deleted Account
cool
G
09:27
Gonzalo
node 51.15.69.135 updated & synced at height 2019
Z
09:27
Zack
In reply to this message
awesome
09:28
Deleted Account
Funny there was run on gpu’s here. so i bought the last gpu in the store today.
09:28
second gpu for my miner. eventually we’ll get the gpu mining working and i’ll be ready
lw
09:31
lijun wang
http://192.241.144.151:8080/wallet.html
ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT
09:32
Deleted Account
Let me see. eating dinner
09:33
it’s online
Z
09:33
Zack
In reply to this message
looks like you downloaded all the blocks. This is a fully synced node.
09:34
Deleted Account
block:height().
2020
(amoveo_core_prod@anode)7> api:height().
2020
09:34
and i'm mining now. I have to update it though.. so be back up in a second
09:36
back online.. and mining no issue..
09:37
pool is updated also
09:37
3% seems like a fair amount to keep
09:38
big headache running a full node lol
09:39
Deleted Account
seems pretty easy once you get used to it
09:40
Deleted Account
gets you trained. lots of restarts, and code updates..
09:40
Deleted Account
zack is there any balance tracking for your pool?
09:40
Deleted Account
my job allows me the freedom to monitor the node and miner so I can keep my node updated
09:42
Deleted Account
i think i need to join a pool im not getting any blocks
09:42
Deleted Account
block times really slowed down.. 7-8 min block times now
09:44
Deleted Account
in amoveo-c-miner if you are solo minig on a full node on the same computer does setting -define(Pubkey, x) reward to the given pubkey? perhaps not
G
09:45
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
reward will go to the pubkey on the full node
09:45
you can leave it
Z
09:45
Zack
In reply to this message
No.
09:45
In reply to this message
Great
09:46
Deleted Account
ok
09:47
so ill probably want to chang eto use your peet instead of smae computer
Z
09:47
Zack
In reply to this message
Thanks for the community support Gonzalo
09:47
Deleted Account
do you have a way to confirm if im mining in your pool
Z
09:48
Zack
In reply to this message
No, but that is a good idea.
09:48
Deleted Account
looks like i did mine a few veo from these solo pools, but now i should probably send them to my real address
Z
09:49
Zack
In reply to this message
Great. I bet other people have had this problem and lost Veo.
09:49
Deleted Account
yeah i thought it was odd i wasnt getting any veo
Z
09:53
Zack
In reply to this message
If you put in the right url, and it says "did not find a block in that period", then you know you are connected and it is working.
09:55
Deleted Account
api:spend(base64:decode(«"BBH26TpQgvscsPWyfIz3zjSA4wopZrVKf3mYktTd2xnjOYi/MW5AXODhK4ZZnud2DeRFkyVlq9q5zESFqbWJCE8="»), 123). produces an error when i include the address i am attempting to send to and the integer balance i get from api:balance().
09:56
Deleted Account
you can't send all.. you have to subtract the fee and leave some in the account
09:56
Deleted Account
ok
09:57
Deleted Account
I've been using 152117 as the fee, and then subtract some until it doesn't give an error
09:57
I'm sure zack has a great way to do this, but I have to use trial and error
MH
10:00
Mandel Hoff
Zack, I'm running some backup nodes. They are sync'd and then set to normal. I have local erlang mining pool started, but they lag blocks after a while and don't sync. The pool is 'on' but no miners are actually doing work on these "backup nodes". Am I doing something wrong?
10:00
10:00
Deleted Account
i wish i had spun up like 100 cloud servers this morning just for the first 12 hours
MH
10:00
Mandel Hoff
This screenshot shows a node that has been in "idle mining" mode for a while and is ~10 blocks behind.
10:01
Deleted Account
all the pools went down so you would have had to do that and be solo, and that would have taken time to set up
10:01
Deleted Account
well maybe I'll get a second block today..I'm thinking 1 block per day is all I can expect
10:02
yah i could have setup prior, but didn't think we'd have Batman to deal with
10:02
i was running 10x servers and expected that to be enough to get a few blocks
10:03
100x probably wouldn't have been enough, no idea how the guy had so much hash power without a secret gpu miner
OK
10:04
O K
my poor baby thinkpad spent all day cookin didn't even get a block
10:04
Deleted Account
i have a very powerful laptop, but i don't want to ruin it mining...
10:05
i have this new tower i built for mining, and some servers before I'm not using now
10:05
Deleted Account
most of my nodes apparently have height less than 2000
10:06
Deleted Account
running one node is enough work.. I wouldn't want to run several unless i had to like mandel for his pool
10:07
Deleted Account
yeah i might start over and figure out how to use zacks mining tools, but i wasn't using them before and wasn't sure how to get a mining pool to actually work
10:07
Deleted Account
i just use zack's code and it's super easy..
10:07
Deleted Account
but are you running a pool
10:08
Deleted Account
i run a cloud node, and a local miner
10:08
pool is required to make it work
10:08
but it's easy
Adrian joined group by link from Group
10:09
Deleted Account
i could start over but now i need to make sure i send all this veo to the right account
10:09
Deleted Account
just one more step and I can link 10+ miners easy
10:09
light wallet makes that easy also.. i tested yesterday
10:15
Deleted Account
so i guess im on a fork
10:16
mining blocks i probably wont get to keep i think
MH
10:18
Mandel Hoff
I think 2021 is current top.
10:18
2022 is a 30 minute block
10:20
Deleted Account
so did something happen at ~1900 that would cause me not to stay on the right blockchain?
MH
10:21
Mandel Hoff
Anything below 2k was complete bananas for network sync. 🙈
J
10:24
JasonWW
hey guys, one stupid question: i got segmentation fault (core dumped) error when run ./amoveo_c_miner. any suggestions?
MH
10:36
Mandel Hoff
Oh good. Batman is back and got block 2022 - a 42 minute block. 👍
10:37
Deleted Account
He wants to mine most coins and keep that network alive as well thats why he was taking a break.
OK
10:41
O K
Hey Zack congratulations today, and thanks for the help everyone. See you guys tomorrow
N
11:49
N
Has anyone figured out the supply schedule of Veo?
11:49
Deleted Account
no
11:49
an they never will
Deleted joined group by link from Group
Roland Rood ✒️ joined group by link from Group
D
12:42
D
lol atm it's 52,560 VEO/yr emissions (10 minute blocks; 1 VEO reward) plus the 2,000 that flew by before adjusting the difficulty
12:42
But that can change based on what people bet
12:44
iirc there's already a movement to make block rewards higher
13:20
Deleted Account
I can show you how to make up to $1000 daily just by mining crypto currencies. Dm me
13:47
Deleted Account
I think we should focus on getting the miners to work properly for all platform for fair distribution.
M
14:02
Mike
the most fair would be get gpu miners working on both linux & ubuntu and then start again =)
14:36
Deleted Account
No reason to start again
14:37
The answer to starting again is to increase mining rewards by the magnitude of the screw up
Wall joined group by link from Group
14:37
Deleted Account
If all people agree that the first period of 2000 blocks was bad, youd increase future mining rewards to minimize that.
14:37
Theres no reason to start over again
14:38
Increasing the reward from 1 to 100 would essentially remove the initial rewards, but youd only do that if it was expected to add value to the system, so you don't need to start over you just need to use the miner reward governance
14:39
It is good that the reward started so small, as everyone recognizes 50000 VEO in 1 year is a very small amount, but its much more likely that the reward will increase as the network technology matures, and then it will start to decline again towards zero
14:43
Deleted Account
Ccminer support amoveo ?
O
14:47
Oliver
Just woke up, has the main net launch been postponed finally after the issues yesterday? Zack
14:48
Deleted Account
i wouldnt think so, i dont think the issues were material
14:49
restarting solves nothing that cant be solved through the governance
14:49
and in any case, it seems unlikely wed benefit at all from restarted because theres no new technology
O
15:33
Oliver
ok, I launch some new miners then
Z
15:37
Zack
In reply to this message
did you do sync_mode:normal().?
Did you add their IPs to the list of peers so that my block will send them headers?
15:38
In reply to this message
update for the changes in the software.
15:39
In reply to this message
you probably need a software update.
15:40
In reply to this message
Follow the directions in the README.
15:41
In reply to this message
Thanks.
Congratulations to us all. We survived over 20 hours.
15:42
In reply to this message
the community decides. It uses a governance mechanism. I cannot predict what the community will decide.
15:44
In reply to this message
no, I think it does not work.
15:45
In reply to this message
I estimate about 80% chance that we will restart from 0 in the next 30 days. Don't invest too much.
15:45
Deleted Account
Quitted solo mining too much time that i dont have for updates an all, now only pooling.
Z
15:45
Zack
In reply to this message
No. it is not a voting protocol. It is a betting protocol.
Even if only 1 person participates, it is still accurate.
EW
15:48
Eli W
In reply to this message
Thank you 👍👍👍
15:49
Deleted Account
Seems like Bats has slowed down... now i have to learn more about the governance mechanism... Zack I must say I like the project a lot hopefully at work i finish something that has been bugging me last month and have some more time to dive in Amoveo.
15:49
Deleted Account
I think theres a 5% chance we will restart from 0 :P
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15:56
Bandwidth requirements have gone down a lot. Thank you for updating software guys
I
16:00
Iridescence
What does create_account do?
16:00
As in, what's the difference between an account and a pubkey?
Deleted joined group by link from Group
Z
16:01
Zack
In reply to this message
It is similar to spend_tx. It gives money to someone else.

You use create_account if the person you are sending to does not have any VEO yet.
You use spend if they already have some VEO.
16:02
Deleted Account
Zack If batman does not want to increase block reward, he would keep on bettting agaist your governance oracle question using his VEO. But if the oracle settled against, then the chain would hardfork, right?
Z
16:02
Zack
In reply to this message
An account is a datastructure stored in the consensus state of the blockchain. It tells how much money is secured by a set of keys.
The pubkey is the 65-bytes that identify your account, so we can send money to it.
16:03
In reply to this message
If he bets against us, then we will use a hard fork to make him lose the bet. And we will take all the money he used to bet against us with.

I feel confident that the network wants a higher block reward.
16:05
Deleted Account
its probably good to gradually increase rewards until the network and supportive technology is more stable (1-2 years?)
16:06
which I guess would be similar has having a fix reward for hash rather than a competitive reward
Z
16:06
Zack
Looks like someone did reset the oracle
16:06
Deleted Account
it doesnt protect against a powerful miner taking 80% of the rewards
M
16:06
Mike
I also think that it would be good to 'copy' bitcoin reward scheme which 'mass people' are used to
16:07
like 50 per block with 10 minutes blocktime
16:07
at start
16:07
Deleted Account
So, what if he will try to bring down the reward using oracle after the fork? Will we repeat the same process until he gives up?
M
16:07
Mike
then we could PR amoveo like 'bitcoin with oracles & state channels with smart contracts inside them'
16:07
Deleted Account
the reward itself is probabl less important than the rate of change
Z
16:08
Zack
oh, nvm. I read it wrong. the oracle is still type 1.
We will be ready to increase the block reward around height 3020
16:08
In reply to this message
sure, that sounds fine.
16:08
Deleted Account
16 core working 5 hours and get nothing.
Z
16:08
Zack
In reply to this message
We will be able to double our money every time he tries to attack, and the attacker will lose a lot of money. Eventually they will be unable to continue the attack.
16:09
Deleted Account
is that so hard to mine?
16:10
Deleted Account
id like to participate in the voting, but not sure hwo
Z
16:10
Zack
In reply to this message
What is your mining power? yes the difficulty is high.
Which pool are you using?
EW
16:10
Eli W
In reply to this message
👏👏👏
16:10
Deleted Account
i think increasing to 50 is pretty aggressive
Z
16:10
Zack
In reply to this message
there is no voting in Amoveo.
16:10
Deleted Account
i mean, betting
16:11
isn't betting on binary choices similar to voting though
16:11
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
using your public mining pool. 8m hashrate
Z
16:11
Zack
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/tests/market.py#L81
here is an example of using the betting API from python.
16:12
In reply to this message
I calculate that you will find one block every 27 hours or so.
16:13
In reply to this message
no. Betting can be accurate with only 1 participant, because of the threat of escalation.
Voting cannot be accurate under any circumstances. The incentive to vote well is almost 0.
EW
16:14
Eli W
In reply to this message
One day one Veo , a good motto 😁
16:15
Deleted Account
Zack Thank you, one more question. Do you think such hardfork will occur frequently in amoveo (besides block reward issue), or if the amoveo ecosystem matures, everybody becomes to behave honestly from the beginning?
Z
16:17
Zack
In reply to this message
I hope we will need to do hard forks to fix the governance result. Since we can all double our money when it happens.
But probably no one will give us free money, so it wont happen almost ever.
16:18
Deleted Account
has anyone bet on the reward oracle?
Z
16:19
Zack
I did. I bet enough so that once it settles, it will increase the reward.
16:20
Deleted Account
is it a percent increase
Z
16:20
Zack
yes. about 50%.
16:20
so it will increase to 1.5 VEO per block.
16:20
Deleted Account
that seems good
16:20
the percent increase is a separate oracle variable?
Z
16:20
Zack
If we increase the reward too much, then we also need to change some other variables to keep it in balance
16:21
Deleted Account
I think a more beginner friendly tutorial on this would be helpful
Z
16:21
Zack
In reply to this message
the percent increase limit is a different oracle variable. right now 50% is the limit of the maximum amount of we can change it in a single instance of the governance mechanism.
16:21
yes the 50% limit is also a governance variable we can change.
16:21
Deleted Account
yeah, i think it is good to keep that value smaller
16:21
even 50% is quite large really
16:22
once the network is older, we'd probably want to see that move towards 1% i think
Z
16:22
Zack
right, I thought we would want to freedom to change things quickly in the beginning, and then later in a few months we can slow down the rate of change and stick to the values that work best.
It is a learning process.
16:22
Deleted Account
yeah
16:23
50% right now makes perfect sense
16:23
because the periods also represent a significant portion of history right now
Z
16:24
Zack
the amount of time it takes to run the governance mechanism is also a governance variable. right now it is set to 1000 blocks. Maybe we should reduce it to 500.
16:25
Deleted Account
or shorter block periods
Z
16:26
Zack
You think 10 minutes is too long?

If the blocks are faster then there are more orphan blocks, and it takes longer to sync with the blockchain
16:28
Deleted Account
Probably we should be careful to tweak hyperparameter-like variables, such as amount of time.
16:29
Deleted Account
I think we could expect to have blocks shorter than 10 because of increased mining activity over time, though if for some reason it goes the other way as you said, it can stall us early on. Since mining power is one of the most volatile metrics right now it may make sense to protect against sudden loss of hash, but really we can protect against this externally by adding more hash which is something we certainly have the ability to do
16:31
targetting weekly metric adjustments sounds kinda nice early on
16:32
increasing the frequency and reducing the magnitude is probably my preferred approach
16:33
Deleted Account
That makes sense.
16:34
What we are trying to do is really interesting from various perspectives. To fix the governance problem using oracle betting... If we succeed we would get a lot of attention.
16:37
Deleted Account
One thing we've seen this year is many chains not adjusting their fees fast enough for market booms. Some protocols require quarters or years before changes can be made. The calculus of a perfect action would have the frequency of change instanteous but the max change close to 0.
16:38
Im not sure if "instanteous" is good in practice, but I would lean towards fast and small from that logic
Z
16:38
Zack
In reply to this message
Yes
Paul sztorc suggested this strategy http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/fork-futures/
16:39
Deleted Account
Thanks, I'll read it
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16:41
Deleted Account
The success in governance will increase the value of veo significantly. So after all it's also good for Batman to remain silent to the reward change.
Z
16:41
Zack
I think Paul Sztorc got the idea from stuff Robin Hanson wrote about Futarchy
16:42
Deleted Account
i think the reward change would have happened regardless of blocks 1-2000
Z
16:43
Zack
I have to lock up about 2/3 a veo to run the governance mechanism.
I get most of the money back eventually, so it isn't a big deal.
16:44
Deleted Account
I have some VEO i'd like to help, I just need to get more familiar with all the steps
16:44
also sending from the light wallet wasn't successful for me
Z
16:45
Zack
I have enough Veo to update all the governance variables at once.

If someone attacks the governance mechanism, then I will need everyone's help to defend. And we will all double our money.
16:45
Deleted Account
what would an attack look like
Z
16:45
Zack
In reply to this message
Did you use the light node served by my full node?
16:46
Deleted Account
i believe so, might have been my own node though
16:46
i can try again
Z
16:46
Zack
Try tx_pool:get(). to see if the TX is in your mempool
16:46
It should share txs every time you download blocks from the network
16:47
Deleted Account
159.89.106.253 this is you right
Z
16:47
Zack
Yes
16:48
Deleted Account
so to be clear im doing what im supposed to, loan p private key under account, then use amount to send and the receiver topubkey, then hit spend. When i did this late time, the amount to send disappeared but nothing else happened
Z
16:48
Zack
sounds like it worked
16:48
the amount disappears so that if you accidentally click the button twice, it wont spend money twice
16:49
Deleted Account
yeah thats a good protection
16:49
but it was never removed from my account, im not sure if i was using your node though and its quite possible my node was not synced
Z
16:49
Zack
let me check the server's tx_pool
16:50
Deleted Account
so when you are betting on this governance variable, it only requires 1 person to bet and you have bet to increase it. Do you gain anything for doing this? Me as a spectator may want to bet as well but the result I want appears to be winning does it make sense to lock up coins for that
Z
16:50
Zack
I don't see any tx in the pool
16:51
Deleted Account
I guess if someone bets to keep it the same or decrease it, I would need to contribute to bring our betting stake towards increasing? is that correct?
M
16:51
Mike
Zack I think that 10 min per block is quite long, but still ok. But diff adjustment once per 2000 blocks - this is strange, considering current blockchains usual approach is to change difficulty each block
16:51
Deleted Account
But if I can see the bets, wouldn't I have an incentive not to participate on the losing side?
Z
16:52
Zack
In reply to this message
if you lock up coins first, then you are first in line as a defender.
Defenders can double their money during an attack, but only if you are early enough in line.
We can only double our money if the attacker spends enough.
16:52
In reply to this message
2000 blocks is same as bitcoin.
M
16:53
Mike
bitcoin is old fashioned in many ways =)
Z
16:53
Zack
In reply to this message
the result is ultimately decided by the community.
16:53
via hard fork
16:56
Deleted Account
If the diff adjustment period is too short the community would not have time to discuss
16:56
Deleted Account
yeah
lw
16:57
lijun wang
which Hardware configuration requirements for fullnode?
Z
16:57
Zack
I am not sure if 2000 blocks for difficulty adjustment is best. It seemed like the safest choice.
There are a lot of ways to attack the difficulty adjustment.
16:58
In reply to this message
you need at least 500 mb of RAM.
And you need externally accessible IP address
lw
16:58
lijun wang
cpu?
Z
16:58
Zack
In reply to this message
Any CPU should be fine. I have a $5 VPS, and the CPU stays at 1% or less all the time.
lw
16:59
lijun wang
👍 thanks
Z
17:00
Zack
actually, it stays around 5%, I just checked
17:05
I don't know.
17:06
I am running a pool. the C miner connects to it by default.
17:07
I don't know what you mean by "miningrigs"
17:07
Deleted Account
It's different from ordinary sha256
17:13
pool's protocol is also specific. you should use miners on amoveo github
lw
17:43
lijun wang
Which ports should be open for fullnode? zack
Z
17:43
Zack
8080
CB
17:50
CeloStarter Bandits
Looks like a Scifi Chain..
lw
17:52
lijun wang
api:txs({{192,241,144,151},8080}).
** exception error: undefined function api:txs/1
Z
17:55
Zack
In reply to this message
api:txs({192,241,144,151}, 8080).
17:55
thank you for pointing this out. In the next update, the syntax you suggest will also be accepted.
lw
17:56
lijun wang
😂
18:04
Deleted Account
Any advice for Amoveo Cloud Mining ? I want to get a bunch of VPS on digital Ocean but I heard that it is against their terms and conditions.
O
18:05
Oliver
Mandelhoff, you run your own pool now without connecting it to Zacks pool, right?
18:05
(Maybe someone else can answer.)