Amoveo ♥🧿
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4 February 2019
SS
01:59
Spike Spiegel
How much I have to pay you to lock $1000 veo for a year
01:59
I think this may be connected to an answer
02:03
Also can we create scalar market for % of bitcoin dominance?
02:03
Z
02:07
Zack
yes you can create a scalar market for % bitcoin dominance.
or any other publicly available number.
or any other publicly available number.
05:44
Deleted Account
Anyone care to read through my draft blog post? https://medium.com/p/ec4b5ebf19a2. It needs more work, just curious of the correctness and of course any input
T
06:01
Tromp
It says degin instead of design
06:05
Pretty interesting and simple, i like it 👍🏻
A
12:01
Aries
12:01
Happy New Year Miners!!!
Deleted invited Deleted Account
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AK
16:53
A K
Gong Xi!
SS
16:55
Spike Spiegel
@tallakt the problem with the article is that it assumes prior knowledge about multiple concepts in the same time
16:55
There should be some way to gradually introduce concept by concept until it's clear why and how amoveo reaches design goals
Z
17:34
In reply to this message
You describe moving a bet to a shorter path wrong.
You didn't explain about hash locking.
You incorrectly said that one of the users would need to make a new market.
You incorrectly said that one of the users would have to buy the opposite kind of share.
You are wrong when you wrote about how shares only increase. In reality, if you buy both kinds of shares, you can combine them and they turn into Veo.
The total number of shares can decrease without closing the market.
It is confusing how you start off talking about the inability to do lending on amoveo.
In reality, it is impossible to do lending on any blockchain.
The inability to do lending doesn't relate to the rest of this document.
You didn't explain about hash locking.
You incorrectly said that one of the users would need to make a new market.
You incorrectly said that one of the users would have to buy the opposite kind of share.
You are wrong when you wrote about how shares only increase. In reality, if you buy both kinds of shares, you can combine them and they turn into Veo.
The total number of shares can decrease without closing the market.
It is confusing how you start off talking about the inability to do lending on amoveo.
In reality, it is impossible to do lending on any blockchain.
The inability to do lending doesn't relate to the rest of this document.
17:34
Deleted Account
Kacper Wikieł I already wrote a few other posts about Amoveo. Its difficult to talk about this stuff because there are a lot of moving parts, and I dont want to do something lengthy
Z
17:34
Zack
The title of the document doesn't make sense for what you are talking about.
17:35
Deleted Account
Thanks @zack. Seems I need to rethink this
Z
21:22
Zack
We should try to use Amoveo to prevent civil war in Venezuela
21:22
If there is even a chance it could help, it is worth a shot
21:23
What sort of futarchy questions should we ask?
21:24
"P=More than 1000 people have died fighting in a civil war in Venezuela;Q=Maduro calls for democratic elections; (P and Q) or (!P and !Q)"
21:25
and then we could substitute in a bunch of different values for Q.
21:26
"Guiado renounces his title as temporary president, declares his support for Maduro the true leader."
21:26
"USA changes it's stance, declares itself non-interventionist, does not support Maduro or Guaido"
21:27
It is a current event, so if we do something related to this, it is more likely to be shared widely
21:29
"USA and Guaido acknowledge Chinese claims to the large fraction of Venezuelan oil that Maduro gave to China."
21:30
If this is another oil war, and Amoveo proved it, that would be cool.
21:32
"Maduro calls for a re-election to determine the true democratic president."
M
21:42
Minieep21
Agreed, that is the best way to market VEO
21:42
Increase participation
SS
21:44
Spike Spiegel
Best way to market VEO would be to subsidise participation
21:44
Coins are essentially free from VEO perspective itself
Dragonmike invited Dragonmike
D
21:46
Dragonmike
Hi - so I'm using the Amoveo web wallet... whilst I have no idea where the keys are stored within my browser, it still seems to see the coins I have there... so I try to send those to an exchange, but the "Send VEO" button is greyed out. Any ideas?
Z
21:48
Zack
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/
Are you using this web wallet I wrote?
Are you using this web wallet I wrote?
21:48
I never grey out any buttons.
DV
D
AK
21:56
A K
you imported a private key ?
D
21:57
Dragonmike
essentially I generated one there
DV
21:59
Denis Voskvitsov
In reply to this message
the key resets after the page refresh
have you loaded the key again after refresh?
btw, if you want just transfer VEO, you can use myveowallet.com it has nice and clean UI.
have you loaded the key again after refresh?
btw, if you want just transfer VEO, you can use myveowallet.com it has nice and clean UI.
SS
22:00
Spike Spiegel
Nobody will be using Veo to actually change the world for better - only real use case is actually doing some profitable hedging / betting
22:02
Crypto community dislikes utopian delusional thinking as it's frequntly used to sell coin / token to delusional early adopters
Z
22:02
Zack
profitable hedging makes the world better in a small incremental way.
22:03
futarchy really can prevent civil wars, because it can cut through the propaganda and expose what is a lie, and what is the truth.
J
ŽM
22:09
Živojin Mirić
I just don't have enough words... Futarchy is simply beautiful.
T
22:10
Tromp
Venezuelan here, I can help in anything you need
22:10
Yes
22:10
For $$
22:11
Lol
Z
22:12
Zack
In reply to this message
great.
You can probably come up with better futarchy questions than me.
Maybe 1000 people dying isn't such a good bad-case scenario, would you suggest something different? an official declaration of war or something?
Is there anything that a large number of people believe that could possibly be false? Futarchy is good for showing if someone is lying.
You can probably come up with better futarchy questions than me.
Maybe 1000 people dying isn't such a good bad-case scenario, would you suggest something different? an official declaration of war or something?
Is there anything that a large number of people believe that could possibly be false? Futarchy is good for showing if someone is lying.
T
22:14
Tromp
Well i know from independent studies and experience within the country that 80% of the population want maduro out but are not armed
22:14
20% are with him and many are armed
22:14
I dont know if a civil war is possible
22:15
Maybe confrontations between us, colombian and brazilian forces that are bringin the humanitarian aid and the venezuelan military and the paramilitaries from the government
Z
22:15
Zack
So what is a possible bad-case scenario that everyone can agree we should avoid?
22:15
A military clash between Columbia or Brazil and Venezuela is what people all want to avoid?
SS
22:16
Spike Spiegel
People don't care about Venezuela
T
22:16
Tromp
Yes
22:16
The ideal escenario is for maduro and his people to leave peacefully
SS
22:16
Spike Spiegel
People don't care about North Korea as well - but they have nukes so Trump won't be able to just invade them for oil...
Z
SS
22:16
Spike Spiegel
But they don't have money so their feelings are worth zero - they won't be able to participate in futarchy
T
22:17
Tromp
The worst scenario is a long armed conflict within the country like syria or Irak
Z
22:17
Zack
Little Venezuela would be a great starting point for getting Barcelona to use Amoveo
22:17
Some Venezeulans have money
22:18
If you want to succeed in the startup world, you need to start by serving a small under-served market.
T
22:18
Tromp
Since we have two presidents, one legitimate and one holding power through force the question could be about armed forces turning on maduro and supporting guaido
SS
22:18
Spike Spiegel
"DeFi / open finance" is mostly for already well banked / rich young people with internet access / education so they can buy weed online / speculate / gamble
T
Z
22:18
Zack
Only desperate people are willing to spend time on new technology
SS
22:19
Spike Spiegel
Unless there is significant chance of 100x profit like with bitcoin / other alts in 2017
T
22:19
Tromp
I know negotiations are trying to get maduro out of the country and offer him save passage, he seems to be refusing
I
T
22:20
Tromp
That could be another angle to take
22:20
Will maduro abandon venezuelan territoy into exile
22:20
Something like that
Z
22:20
Zack
Amoveo is for helping communities of people make decisions. This is a community struggling to make some tough decisions.
22:21
In reply to this message
sounds good.
1) will maduro leave venezuela?
2) will the military turn on maduro and support guaido?
3) if we have fair elections, will Maduro win?
1) will maduro leave venezuela?
2) will the military turn on maduro and support guaido?
3) if we have fair elections, will Maduro win?
T
22:22
Tromp
Yeah, for the point on fair elections it has to be stablished what that means i guess
22:22
For fair elections we need a new electoral council
Z
22:23
Zack
We could list 5 participants, and if more than 3 think that the elections are fair?
T
22:23
Tromp
In reply to this message
Will maduro leave venezuela into exile. Because he could leave on a trip as he always does
22:23
That could mess with the oracle
Z
22:23
Zack
right, good point
T
22:25
Also on the military question it could be a bit tough, some military officers have already turned but the high ranking officers are still supporting him
22:35
I would use 2019 as a timeframe
Z
22:45
Zack
It will work a lot better if we can do it on a month timeframe or less
22:45
we can do it again next month to get more information
T
22:51
Tromp
Okk
22:51
Makes sense
Z
22:52
Zack
Unfortunately it just came to my attention that our futarchy market is broken.
The design is no good, the market isn't measuring what we want to measure.
We can still use amoveo for predictive purposes to help people prepare for what is to come.
The design is no good, the market isn't measuring what we want to measure.
We can still use amoveo for predictive purposes to help people prepare for what is to come.
s
[
Z
23:01
Zack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phi_coefficient
we were using (P and Q) or (!P and !Q), which was a simplification of ((P and Q) or (!P and !Q)) - ((P and !Q) or (!P and Q)) that we could do because all 4 possibilities sum to 1.
The mistake is "or". that is for addition. the formula should not use addition, it uses multiplication there. since it uses multiplication, we can't do the simplification, because the possibilities no longer add up to 1.
we were using (P and Q) or (!P and !Q), which was a simplification of ((P and Q) or (!P and !Q)) - ((P and !Q) or (!P and Q)) that we could do because all 4 possibilities sum to 1.
The mistake is "or". that is for addition. the formula should not use addition, it uses multiplication there. since it uses multiplication, we can't do the simplification, because the possibilities no longer add up to 1.
23:05
I am looking for a way to stuff the more complicated formula into the oracle, but if it is not possible, I will just write a new chalang contract that can look at 2 oracles.
We needed to make that eventually anyway, because it reduces the load on the oracle system, and moves it off-chain into the channels.
We needed to make that eventually anyway, because it reduces the load on the oracle system, and moves it off-chain into the channels.
T
SS
23:19
Spike Spiegel
Also what's the rationale behind futarchy question staying in bad question state before one can participate?
23:20
MF
23:25
Mr Flintstone
I think that’s just how the UI is showing it
SS
23:25
Spike Spiegel
One can participate right now?
MF
23:25
Mr Flintstone
actually nvm, if nothing happens in the oracle, nothing should change when it’s finalized so it makes sense to be bad question
SS
23:26
Spike Spiegel
So nobody yet bet?
23:26
Eh, english grammar :)
MF
23:26
Mr Flintstone
oracle betting is for reporting the outcome only
SS
23:26
Spike Spiegel
How to participate?
23:28
Deleted Account
first you create oracle, then you create market referencing that oracle, then you bet on the market
23:28
i was too dum to make it work
SS
23:30
Spike Spiegel
Oracle is created?
So one needs to create market now?
So one needs to create market now?
23:31
Deleted Account
yea im interested to see u try
Z
23:33
Zack
Amoveo is a little broken now.
We can't use governance oracles correctly, because there is no futarchy mechanism to know if it is the right decision.
We can't use governance oracles correctly, because there is no futarchy mechanism to know if it is the right decision.
23:35
In reply to this message
I think I will finish up OTC oracle mechanism mid February, then it will take like 1-2 months to get the correlation markets working
ŽM
23:36
Živojin Mirić
I wonder how will this bad news affect the price of VEO
23:37
Deleted Account
so you need two oracles not just cleverly worded question for futarchy
Z
23:37
Zack
it would have been worse for Amoveo if we left this bug in longer
23:37
In reply to this message
thats a good question. I have been doing lots of math to try and find the answer to that.
23:37
2 oracles is a lot simpler, we will probably use 2 oracles.
SS
23:38
Spike Spiegel
Huh, I'm getting errors
Node is not running!
make[1]: *** [attach] Error 1
make: *** [prod-restart] Error 2
Node is not running!
make[1]: *** [attach] Error 1
make: *** [prod-restart] Error 2
Z
23:38
Zack
In reply to this message
looks like your node is turned off. maybe you should send me the error log before turning it on again
23:38
maybe it crashed
SS
23:38
Spike Spiegel
make prod-attach
Node is not running!
make: *** [attach] Error 1
Node is not running!
make: *** [attach] Error 1
ŽM
23:38
Živojin Mirić
In the end futarchy will prevail! I wish you best of luck in resolving this issue Zack!
Z
SS
23:39
Spike Spiegel
First: make prod-go
Then: make prod-attach
But it crashes
Then: make prod-attach
But it crashes
Z
23:39
Zack
If things go wrong in Amoveo, we don't keep it secret. We bring our problems out in the open, so we can solve them.
23:40
In reply to this message
maybe it got shut down improperly, and has corrupted files.
make prod-clean
make prod-restart
SS
23:41
Spike Spiegel
What about some CI
23:41
Travis or something
23:42
rm -rf amoveo on daily basis isn't best way to live :)
MF
23:45
Mr Flintstone
make sure when you shut the node off you’re doing api:off() and halt() in order
SS
23:45
Spike Spiegel
Clean build works - but it would be better to have some resiliency to corrupted files
MF
23:45
Mr Flintstone
if you want to leave the node running but exit, use ctrl-D
23:45
then to come back make-prod attach
SS
23:59
Spike Spiegel
Can I have absorb block 19680
absorb block 19690
absorb block 19700
absorb block 19710
absorb block 19720
absorb block 19730
absorb block 19740
absorb block 19750
absorb block 19760
absorb block 19770
absorb block 19780
absorb block 19790
absorb block 19800
absorb block 19810 interfering with what I type?
absorb block 19690
absorb block 19700
absorb block 19710
absorb block 19720
absorb block 19730
absorb block 19740
absorb block 19750
absorb block 19760
absorb block 19770
absorb block 19780
absorb block 19790
absorb block 19800
absorb block 19810 interfering with what I type?
5 February 2019
T
00:00
Tromp
In reply to this message
Iota has a 700 mm mkt cap and it doesnt work hahahaa i dont think it will affect it, and it will be fixed
SS
00:02
Spike Spiegel
Which kind of bad news?
00:05
I'm missing something?
Z
AK
00:08
A K
all of them?
Z
00:08
Zack
Binary markets work
00:08
Scalar markets work
00:09
This thing (P and Q) or (!P and !Q) does not work
AK
00:09
A K
ah
MF
00:10
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
it looks like it is interfering visually but it actually doesn’t
00:10
so you can keep typing whatever it is you want
Z
00:12
Zack
We can get rid of those messages I guess.
I kind of like them
I kind of like them
MF
00:28
Mr Flintstone
absorb block is helpful imo
Z
02:31
Zack
I figured out a way we can do futarchy markets right now.
We need at least 4 oracles per futarchy market, and we make 4 binary markets for the 1 futarchy market.
oracle1: (P and Q)
oracle2: (P and !Q)
oracle3: (!P and Q)
oracle4: (!P and !Q)
We need at least 4 oracles per futarchy market, and we make 4 binary markets for the 1 futarchy market.
oracle1: (P and Q)
oracle2: (P and !Q)
oracle3: (!P and Q)
oracle4: (!P and !Q)
02:32
at the end, 3 of these oracles will resolve to false, and one will resolve to true.
02:32
This design for futarchy markets has a drawback that arbitrage losses are worse.
02:32
but it has the advantage that we can do it right now
MF
SS
02:34
Spike Spiegel
What about P -> Q
02:34
Implication
Z
02:36
maybe we can do it with only 3, but i think the asymmetry would make it more vulnerable to certain kinds of manipulations
MF
02:37
Mr Flintstone
what are oracle 3 and 4
Z
02:37
Zack
(!P and Q)
(!P and !Q)
(!P and !Q)
MF
02:38
Mr Flintstone
maybe my telegram isn’t updating by I only see 2 oracles enumerated there
Z
02:38
Zack
I just edited it again, hopefully that helps
MF
02:39
Mr Flintstone
nope lol, it’s probably just me though
05:07
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
my words exactly. make veo vouchers only redeemable as prediction market bets
05:22
In reply to this message
I think I am not the only one who doesnt understand what you are saying here. With P and Q, there are four outcomes. Why is this a problem? I still think there might be issues (as I mentioned earlier), but what you are linking to I cant relate to these markets
S
M⛏
T
06:40
Tromp
In reply to this message
Do you see a point where amoveo is “finished” from a development standpoint? At least with the tech available right now
Z
[
06:44
dude says its the most disruptive thing we've seen since Bitcoin and Ethereum themselves
Z
06:48
Zack
Aggregating apis is not cryptoeconomically secure. It is a type of voting mechanism, and fails like all voting mechanisms. It is vulnerable to bribery.
In particular, P+epsilon attacks, where the attacker doesn't pay the bribe if he succeeds.
In particular, P+epsilon attacks, where the attacker doesn't pay the bribe if he succeeds.
06:50
Too bad he didn't talk to anyone who knew anything about cryptoeconomics before launching this blockchain.
Now he has made really awkward commitments to a community which will hinder his abilities to develop actually useful tools.
Now he has made really awkward commitments to a community which will hinder his abilities to develop actually useful tools.
Z
SS
07:31
Spike Spiegel
Can we create Android / iPhone app which would be using this as Whatsapp replacement?
07:31
How much per 1 message?
Z
07:36
Zack
by default it is chargine 1 miliveo per message, you can customize it in the config file.
You could create an app like that, but this tool is optimized for passing smart contracts back and forth, not messages.
You could create an app like that, but this tool is optimized for passing smart contracts back and forth, not messages.
07:36
the server can't tell the difference between some encrypted data and other encrypted data. it just passes the message along.
SS
08:12
Spike Spiegel
Also what do you think about subsidising markets to increase the amount of veo locked?
08:13
There is free rider problem - nobody would want to pay for that - but one can percieve additional liqudity as public good
08:15
In VC funded companies it's easy - Augur / Veil ecosystem is probably propped by founders
08:15
There is nothing worse then not crowded market
08:16
Cryptocurrency exchange with best engine / best API / best tx/s / best security is worth nil until there is significant liqudity for both buying and selling.
Z
08:17
Zack
The plan is to get the over the counter derivatives tool popular first, then once we bring in enough users it will start making sense to use markets.
08:18
Otc derivatives are made directly between pairs of people. This kind of trading is popular for thin markets, because each contract can be customized for that customers needs.
Deleted invited Deleted Account
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6 February 2019
SS
00:20
Spike Spiegel
Professional traders won't be interested in exposure to amoveo in order to use derivatives
MF
00:22
Mr Flintstone
the technique to reduce unwanted net currency exposure is called fx hedging. same concept applies to coins
SS
00:25
Spike Spiegel
Yes, but it's possible to use veo while having zero exposure to veo?
00:25
What's the cost / available liquidity for such thing?
00:25
Who will be counter-party for that?
MF
00:25
Mr Flintstone
Not zero but close. you cannot really hedge out your mark to market profit on your fx hedging
SS
00:26
Spike Spiegel
i doubt one can find such crazy people ;)
00:28
In other words there is no actual use case for veo - no product market fit.
It's of course possible to use veo for those things but almost nobody is doing it
It's of course possible to use veo for those things but almost nobody is doing it
MF
00:28
Mr Flintstone
at least some people like to go long veo anyways, leverage can be more capital efficient
00:30
not being used =\= no use case. right now it is basically impossible for someone to intuitively short or long veo in a scalar market, but people like me and I’m sure others are working on making it more usable
00:30
so we can have an intuitive user friendly UX
SS
00:31
Spike Spiegel
Creating "abstracted" stablecoin would be nice thing - so user don't have to worry too much about what's inside
MF
00:32
Mr Flintstone
right, you’ll see something from me soon on this ;)
AK
00:32
A K
err unless it's settled in EUR/USD (assuming that's what stable means?) it'd be a hard sell
00:32
settled in Veo is so-so
MF
00:33
Mr Flintstone
you mean the stablecoin, or just markets in general?
SS
00:35
Spike Spiegel
One side should be able to have zero exposure to veo
AK
00:37
if not, you're stuck with p/l in some illiquid asset
00:37
not cool
SS
00:37
Spike Spiegel
DAI holders don't have exposure to eth or mkr
00:38
unless the system enters global settlement of course
AK
00:38
A K
aha )
00:38
like BTS
00:38
so, they don't until they do
MF
00:38
Mr Flintstone
receiving veo to settle your stablecoin is still zero net exposure to veo
AK
00:38
A K
and they exist through secondary market - you can't do a token on VEO afaik
00:38
so no secondary market
MF
00:38
Mr Flintstone
Until it settles and you need to either roll into a new contract or sell on an exchange
SS
00:39
Spike Spiegel
It's fundamentally bad UX for retail investors
AK
00:39
A K
yeah and in the moment between i sell it on the exchange things can happen
00:39
or if it's a bigger size relatively to exchange liquidity
SS
00:39
Spike Spiegel
If I had to open new contract each month I would be just not using it - and each month pay another tx fee? heck no
MF
00:39
Mr Flintstone
derivatives need to always keep in mind liquidity of the underlying if it’s physical delivery
AK
00:40
A K
well it's like proper spot FX vs NDFs
MF
00:40
Mr Flintstone
yeah
AK
00:40
A K
derivatives can have physical settlement though, eg Bakkt BTC futures
MF
00:40
Mr Flintstone
if it isn’t they still need to keep in mind liquidity of the cash they receive
AK
00:40
A K
no expiration risk
MF
00:40
Mr Flintstone
aka veo in this case
AK
00:41
A K
or CME recently launched FX futures settled in base ccy
00:41
so no expiration risk either
MF
00:42
Mr Flintstone
if people actually start to use the markets I’m not sure we will need to worry about enough exchange liquidity
AK
00:42
A K
really hate to be that guy ) but do we have smth besides amoveobook ?
Z
00:50
Zack
In reply to this message
It's possible that there will be a lot of people wanting to get more Veo exposure. In that case, someone might pay you for the privilege of taking Veo risk from you.
00:51
In reply to this message
There is open source software so anyone can run markets. I am hosting a market now.
00:53
Amoveo doesn't have product market fit yet.
Derivatives are one of the most popular use cases for currency. A significant percentage of global currency is locked in derivatives.
Derivatives today are expensive because you have to pay trusted middle men not to rob you.
Amoveo makes derivatives cheaper by getting rid of the trust.
Derivatives are one of the most popular use cases for currency. A significant percentage of global currency is locked in derivatives.
Derivatives today are expensive because you have to pay trusted middle men not to rob you.
Amoveo makes derivatives cheaper by getting rid of the trust.
AK
00:53
A K
centralized markets = poor discoverability? would we want to add smth to make all markets discoverable? still settled in state channels ofc
00:53
Augur (imo) benefits from gloabl discoverability
00:53
front ends can compete on UX, like dev.augur.net guesser veil probably others
00:54
global discoverability + global liquidity
T
SS
01:03
Spike Spiegel
❤👍
T
01:15
Tromp
I think the bull case for amoveo goes like this: next crypto bubble brings a drastic increase in mkt cap and liquidity, this increase attracts possible new users. This users stay and create a network effect as long as amoveo is a lot better than its competitors and judging by Zack’s comparative analysis from a tech standpoint seems like that is the case. Bear case: we are all just living an illusion and the market never rocovers
Deleted invited Deleted Account
02:35
Deleted Account
Admin
02:35
Ico price?
MF
02:35
Mr Flintstone
nary an ICO was had
02:35
fair mined
E
02:55
Enigma
E
Enigma 05.02.2019 10:22:58
E
02:55
Enigma
is this a new coin like veo ?
Z
02:56
Zack
this is a place to talk about Amoveo.
E
03:00
Enigma
yeah i want to know is this like a comptetor im kinda normie
03:00
so i don't really know much like tech staff
Z
03:01
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/progress_reports/November_2018.md
I compare amoveo with some competitors here.
I compare amoveo with some competitors here.
SS
03:01
Spike Spiegel
03:02
Veo doesn't even exist on similar "explainers"
E
03:02
Enigma
dude i don't have github account ... i don't know how these things works
T
03:02
Tromp
Amoveo in coinmarketcap
E
03:02
Enigma
why u going all defensive
03:02
what is this bye
T
03:02
Tromp
Congratz guys
Z
SS
03:03
Spike Spiegel
Z
03:03
Deleted Account
yayy
SS
03:03
Spike Spiegel
yayayay
T
A
03:03
Aries
holy
Z
03:04
Zack
too bad they can't see our market cap
03:04
Deleted Account
not happy until we beat tron
T
Z
03:04
Zack
they have total supply, and price, why no market cap?
T
03:04
Tromp
I dont know what tron does and at this point im too afraid to ask
03:04
The usually take some time to figure it out for some reason on new coins
Z
03:06
Zack
It looks like they are worried about "circulating supply" vs total supply
I
F
03:07
Fića
In reply to this message
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A
03:07
Aries
This is a historic day!
F
03:08
Fića
This should bring even more people to veo
T
03:08
Tromp
Lets see if they tweet about it
J
03:08
Jurko | Bermuda capital 📈
In reply to this message
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T
03:08
Tromp
They usually do
M
03:09
Minieep21
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Congratulations!
MF
03:09
Mr Flintstone
:)
LB
AK
03:10
A K
no bets (
03:10
otherwise, all good
03:10
anyway let’s cheer CMC )
M⛏
03:11
Moe ⛏
Lol like getting a participation trophy. Well done guys 🤗
Deleted invited Deleted Account
T
03:12
Tromp
Next target: top 100 🤙🏻
Z
03:12
Zack
tromp realized we were on cmc within the hour of us going up
03:13
does he refresh it all day?
T
03:13
Tromp
I search for $veo en twitter
Z
03:13
Zack
I guess someone had to realize first
A
03:13
Aries
T
03:13
Tromp
And it happened to appear on some pages
A
03:13
Aries
Needs to be updated
MF
03:14
Mr Flintstone
haha that’s only of the top 100
03:14
I believe
A
03:14
Aries
We technically are the 7th most valuable
03:14
In terms of price
Z
03:14
Zack
oh I see. coinnotifier tweeted about it
03:16
in about 5 days the dev reward will unlock, and then 100% of the coins will either be in circulation, or be trapped in addresses with lost private keys.
OK
03:17
O K
As far as they're concerned the circulating supply is the supply
03:17
No need to complicate it
MF
03:17
Mr Flintstone
yeah
Z
03:18
Zack
im not planning on selling any time soon, if anyone is curious.
MF
03:18
Mr Flintstone
lol
T
03:18
Tromp
Market dump 10.000 veo? 😂
Michael Fleming invited Michael Fleming
Z
[
Z
MF
03:25
Mr Flintstone
let’s do it
03:25
“Will the coins move” Is enough probably
03:25
unless you want to move them to cold storage first Zack
Z
03:25
Zack
If you guys start paying me interest to hold Veo, it would be incredible
03:26
It's already in cold storage
OK
03:26
O K
Keep dreaming
M⛏
03:26
Moe ⛏
"Anytime soon" doesn't seem specific enough
OK
03:26
O K
I hope he dumps it right away
M⛏
03:26
Moe ⛏
Into my bids please
MF
03:26
Mr Flintstone
ya let’s wipe out the qtrade order books please
03:27
all the way to 0
OK
SS
03:28
Spike Spiegel
"Almost 97% of active loans outstanding as of December 31, 2018, were routed via the MakerDAO protocol due to the substantial demand for the DAI stablecoin."
k
03:28
kk
Great step today on the CMC listing. Well done team 💪💪
SS
03:28
Spike Spiegel
So most DeFi demand = stablecoins
03:28
MF
03:29
Mr Flintstone
seems to me like it’s people wanting to leverage long eth that creates the dai, not necessarily demand for stability
03:29
the dai is a byproduct
03:29
there isn’t much dai on chain tx volume each day
SS
03:30
Spike Spiegel
Probably - the best way to get liquidity would be to be offer comparable product and advertise to already existing users of mkr /compound
03:31
It's much easier to convince somebody using ethereum / augur derivatives to use veo then from person with no experience in those
Z
03:32
Zack
Some people on Veo want to hedge their veo risk, but they don't want to have to pay capital gains by selling.
Other people want to get even more veo risk.
These people will take opposite sides of stable coin contracts.
Other people want to get even more veo risk.
These people will take opposite sides of stable coin contracts.
Cus invited Cus
A
03:41
how did you hear about Amoveo
03:41
>
03:41
?
John joined group by link from Group
Z
MF
03:48
Mr Flintstone
lol
03:48
we currently use futarchy to decide the emission schedule
OK
03:49
O K
The supply increases every time a block is found. Currently by less than one unit, but that may change.
MF
03:49
Mr Flintstone
but I feel like investors would like bitcoin-style emission better. so maybe we can make a futarchy market on switching to reward halving instead of changeable block reward
03:49
and see if it makes sense to change the emission schedule
03:54
no
OK
03:55
O K
There is a psychic reward for some people
03:55
It just feels good to hold them
03:55
Sometimes I throw them in my bed and roll around in them
Z
03:57
Zack
what, in a single paper wallet?
03:58
or like, a pile of thumb drives
OK
03:58
O K
Several paper wallets but be careful I have lost keys this way
Z
03:59
Zack
You can use the Amoveo to provide a service and make a profit that way.
Like running a channel node, or a market server.
Like running a channel node, or a market server.
04:00
You can profit by using Veo for reporting in oracles.
Roma ℏ invited Roma ℏ
04:06
Deleted Account
Congrats people!
S
04:07
Sebsebzen
milestone reached!
04:08
no time to read through thread, but why is circulating supply missing
Z
04:09
Zack
we don't know. I am not sure who to contact about that.
S
[
First Name invited First Name
M
04:15
Minieep21
In reply to this message
Zack maybe leave a message on their telegram. Their mods are active
Rℏ
04:15
Roma ℏ
what was ico price?
Z
04:15
Zack
there was no ico.
🅴🅽🅾🆂🅸🅽🆆 invited 🅴🅽🅾🆂🅸🅽🆆
S
04:24
Sebsebzen
what is ciruclating supply number btw?
OK
S
04:25
Sebsebzen
didnt zack burn some
04:25
sent to burn address
OK
04:25
O K
I think actually they probably want it to be circulating supply as the current supply and total supply as a question mark
I M invited I M
SS
04:34
Spike Spiegel
Welcome Aj Styles!
HichamCh invited HichamCh
H
04:49
HichamCh
Hi$
04:49
Is the total supply on CMC correct?
OK
04:50
I mean total supply means like a permanent supply to them right
H
04:53
HichamCh
total supply is 57280, correct?
[
04:53
[Riki]
yes
OK
04:54
Not sure if cmc is updating
H
04:58
HichamCh
too bad volume sucks on Hitbtc
OK
05:02
O K
Try a1 or qtrade, have used both
S
05:07
Sebsebzen
cuz marketcap is an important metric on CMC
05:07
right now we dont have one
05:08
i think it could be due to coins burned that were created through after that bug
05:08
so circulating supply should be smaller
OK
05:09
O K
I think it automatically calcs market cap if circulating is filled, right? Usually total supply is used for a max supply like btc 21m
Z
05:11
Zack
that is what veoscan says, I think that is the correct number of coins currently.
Dejv invited Dejv
D
05:36
Dejv
ho what is the best miner for nvidia ?
OK
05:36
O K
Veominer but there are FPGA on this coin
TG
05:57
Toby Ganger
any way we can get marketcap metric functioning on CMC?
A
06:10
Aries
hmm
Mo Ash invited Mo Ash
Macaulay invited Macaulay
⌚ joined group by link from Group
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Luffy Monki D invited Luffy Monki D
07:21
Deleted Account
Hello admin pm for any promotional offer. I promote viable projects only. I have 32,126 loyal subscribers i can assure you more than 10k investors within first 2 weeks upload base on how the community want me to go around the project white paper and website . pm for more details
Z
[
07:23
[Riki]
not interested??
07:23
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k
08:25
kk
In reply to this message
I thought amoveo needs more users using the markets, why not interested ?
OK
08:26
O K
You are welcome to DM him if that's a service you would like to pay for
BTC invited BTC
Deleted invited Deleted Account
13:21
Deleted Account
Hello Admin
13:21
successfully you're entered in coinmarketcap great to see you on here.
13:21
I am from coinexmarket Exchange sales team.I have a Wonderful Listing Proposal for your team.
OK
13:22
O K
Does this usually work as a sales tactic?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
OK
14:08
O K
An event sounds fun
Abiola Esther invited Abiola Esther
M
14:29
(If that's what your goal is)
T
15:24
Tromp
Jesus what is happening? 😂 pumpanomics
15:27
In reply to this message
If you have that influence then just buy a lot and you can triple the mkt cap. Very illiquid right now so you should have no problem. Go for it
S
15:41
Sebsebzen
Zack can you explain how many coins you’ve burned following that bug? Is the total supply number on CMC already adjusted to the burning?
S
15:53
the first oracle paid out double or something like that
15:53
so he burned 1805 veo
S
15:55
Sebsebzen
Yeah so that could be deducted from total supply
15:55
Into circulating supply
15:55
As well as Zacks dev reward
15:56
Should be deducted too until it’s unlocked
15:56
But I faintly remember another incident with extra coins created... not sure tho
S
16:12
Sy
not that i know off
16:12
and zacks will unlock this month i think
S
16:21
Sebsebzen
ok, then its pretty much circ supply = total supply
M
17:03
Minieep21
S
17:08
Sebsebzen
owwww
AK
17:08
A K
this sentence doesn't make much sense to me
17:08
buuut their life their rules )
S
17:08
Sebsebzen
and we are on 3 exchanges
AK
17:09
A K
they could've provided circ supply and not provide mkt cap without 3 exchanges
S
17:09
Sebsebzen
so its not less than
AK
17:09
A K
bitibu volumes are 0
Z
M
17:09
Minieep21
just need to add A1 and Qtrade...
S
17:09
Sebsebzen
ok, so put a 1$ order on bitibu
17:12
ill do it...
S
17:50
Sebsebzen
lol, still waiting for funds to arrive
17:50
hope its not a scam
T
17:51
Tromp
We could file a request to list on binance. Zack would have to sign it, are you up for it?
M
S
17:53
Sebsebzen
Pls open wallet Uncle Zack :)
Z
17:53
Zack
In reply to this message
Like, with a pen? You want me to scan my signature and email it to binance?
I could do that, but it sounds weird.
I could do that, but it sounds weird.
S
17:54
Sebsebzen
They'll likely ask for a listing fee
AK
17:54
A K
they don't
Z
17:54
Zack
I'm not paying for that.
We already have like 5 exchanges
We already have like 5 exchanges
17:54
We only need one.
S
17:55
Sebsebzen
Well, then filling out the coin listing form at least
17:55
Btw, is there any official exchange integration guide Zack
17:56
That could be helpful too, especiall if want to avoid paying fees
T
17:56
Well or binance = 100 qtrades
Z
17:56
Zack
We have 5 exchanges already. I don't see this as a priority
T
Z
17:57
Zack
What we need is a use case.
If I am spending time in anything else, that means I am not spending time getting otc derivatives working.
If I am spending time in anything else, that means I am not spending time getting otc derivatives working.
T
17:57
Tromp
It says “NDA” signed by the founder/ceo
I
Z
17:57
Zack
Nda are risky. I would have to waste time reading legaleze
T
Z
17:59
Zack
If we build a good product, then everyone will list us for free, without making me sign random contracts.
17:59
So it's better to just focus on building a good product
EW
18:01
Eli W
S
18:01
Sy
I agree, if ppl are really interested the exchange doesnt really matter, they register everywhere to get the coins plus the big ones follow
18:01
everything else is just a temporary hype you want to make money off...
EW
18:02
Eli W
Is it we can assume circulating supply is total supply ( indeed should ex developer reward)
S
18:02
Sy
yes they are the same and dev reward is unlocked at umm 53k?
18:02
it should be somewhere in the source :D
Z
18:03
Zack
Dev reward will be unlocked in less than 5 days
EW
S
18:05
Sebsebzen
Zack not say I agree but respect your opinion on this. However, a short exchange integration guide would be really great
18:05
If you find some spare time...
Deleted invited Deleted Account
18:08
Deleted Account
What's the max supply
Z
EW
18:09
Eli W
In reply to this message
For amoveo , if we really have good use case then listing / monetisation will come naturally Zack
S
18:09
Sebsebzen
Yes, but at least make it easeier and safer for exchanges to add VEO
18:10
like whats the best way technically to add
EW
Z
18:12
Zack
In reply to this message
There is already a guide for installing a full node.
I don't know what I would write in a guide like you are describing.
If you send me a list of questions, I can wrap the answers up into a guide
I don't know what I would write in a guide like you are describing.
If you send me a list of questions, I can wrap the answers up into a guide
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Deleted invited Deleted Account
18:31
Deleted Account
Hello, does this coin support masternode?
S
18:32
Sebsebzen
be careful when using bitibu, funds still havent arrived yet
18:32
Deleted Account
And what's the maximum supply of this coin?
Z
18:34
I just need to know Yes/No because I don't invest in masternode coin again
Z
18:35
Zack
If you think Amoveo might have masternode, then you don't know anything about what Amoveo is.
18:35
Let me read about it then
Z
18:35
Zack
but "masternode" isn't exactly defined, maybe a channel server would be considered a master node by some people, I don't know.
18:37
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Perhaps, I only see masternode coin as a complete pump and dump.
Investors always dump after reward was paid
Investors always dump after reward was paid
Z
18:38
Zack
A channel server only gets paid a fee if you route a payment.
A market server only gets paid if people do bets.
A market server only gets paid if people do bets.
18:39
we aren't printing new tokens to pay them, they are being paid by customers.
So we shouldn't have the problem you describe
So we shouldn't have the problem you describe
18:41
Deleted Account
There is no maximum limit amount for VEO coins, but the rate of emission can be regulated by the Governance Oracle.
👍
👍
Z
18:54
Zack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19G99_sWApI
Here is a talk about startups that are in the stage Amoveo currently is in.
Here is a talk about startups that are in the stage Amoveo currently is in.
S
19:05
Sy
In reply to this message
I think it would help for an exchange to list what they actually need to integrate a coin...its kinda hard to think up what they are after ^^
Z
19:13
Zack
Hitbtc wanted specific features.
I implemented the features before they integrated amoveo.
They wanted to be able to customize where files are saved to, and they wanted more errors returned by the api if a spend tx fails to be created.
Some other exchange asked me to make an api for looking up total coins in the market cap, and the Api had to have a certain format.
I work with exchanges to make it easy for them to integrate.
Exchanges tend to find the current documentation sufficient. If they, or anyone else asks me questions that aren't already documented, I would add the answers to the documentation.
I implemented the features before they integrated amoveo.
They wanted to be able to customize where files are saved to, and they wanted more errors returned by the api if a spend tx fails to be created.
Some other exchange asked me to make an api for looking up total coins in the market cap, and the Api had to have a certain format.
I work with exchanges to make it easy for them to integrate.
Exchanges tend to find the current documentation sufficient. If they, or anyone else asks me questions that aren't already documented, I would add the answers to the documentation.
S
19:14
Sy
spend returns more information now? interesting...
Z
19:15
Zack
if you try to spend too much, it has an insufficient balance error
19:15
instead of 500 error
S
19:15
Sy
👍
Z
19:16
Zack
it also returns a message if the signature is wrong.
SP
19:19
Stepan Panov
Binance is a difficult one. This is from a Dogecoin developer on Reddit: "It is already a no for Binance. Not only are the forms they want signed, not anything we will sign, but they also charge a massive fee for listing; which is more than 50% of the developer fund atm. Outside of this they do the communal tribunal thing to get coins listed, which requires users to vote via their own dedicated in house currency."
19:20
https://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/7prdxn/add_dogecoin_to_binance_heres_the_link_to_submit/ The top comment here gives some more info on Binance listings
Z
19:20
Zack
haha, im way to busy to deal with any of that
SP
19:21
Stepan Panov via @gif
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64.4 KB
Z
19:22
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/graphs/contributors
maybe one of the other 45 developers will step up
maybe one of the other 45 developers will step up
AK
19:41
A K
In reply to this message
things changed since a year ago, bear market and all. CZ publicly announced "no fee" and I haven't heard Binance ever asking for it since
19:42
not saying Binance should be top priority, far from it
SP
S
MF
20:16
Mr Flintstone
is anyone mining on testnet right now other than me?
20:17
Deleted Account
yea
20:17
i can stop
MF
20:18
Mr Flintstone
ya just for a bit, thanks
20:18
Deleted Account
stopped
S
20:33
Sy
what are your pubkeys? i can label you :)
MF
20:34
Mr Flintstone
im BCL
S
20:35
Sy
okay so the other one should be veoex
20:36
done
20:37
Deleted Account
yea thats right
ak Kumar | (I'll never PM you first) invited ak Kumar | (I'll never PM you first)
a(
21:50
ak Kumar | (I'll never PM you first)
Hello
21:50
Who is the right person to discuss about potential exchange listing?
Z
21:51
Zack
We are not interested in paying to be listed on your exchange.
CryptoSharkYT invited CryptoSharkYT
C
22:03
CryptoSharkYT
hi All
22:06
Deleted Account
hey hey heyy
MF
22:07
Mr Flintstone
hello
S
23:33
Sebsebzen
ok, bitibu funds arrived and im trying to increase volume by a few dollars :)
ŽM
S
23:40
Sebsebzen
If it changes anything
ŽM
23:40
Živojin Mirić
but don't deserve
S
23:40
Sebsebzen
lets hope so
ŽM
23:40
Živojin Mirić
:D
SS
23:50
Spike Spiegel
The open interest on Augur, or the total amount of funds in escrow across all Augur markets, recently fell 57%.
23:50
Can we measure amount of VEO locked in contracts?
AK
23:50
A K
t was somewhere, roughly 0
Z
23:51
Zack
we can measure how much is in channels.
in 5 days I can put the full developer reward into a contract with myself, if that would help
in 5 days I can put the full developer reward into a contract with myself, if that would help
SS
23:52
Spike Spiegel
One cannot improve what cannot measure.
Reliable on-chain metrics = availability of public good funding
Reliable on-chain metrics = availability of public good funding
Z
23:52
Zack
then we might have more open interest than Augur
SS
23:52
Spike Spiegel
Great! That would make a lot of difference
MF
23:56
Mr Flintstone
haha
7 February 2019
s
00:20
sanket
Haha..that would be great for showing metrics
00:21
But how to increase usage
Kz
00:23
Kirill zp
pump hitbtc ?
S
00:27
Sebsebzen
Bitibu VEO/BTC Volume: $16
00:27
haha yes
А
00:28
Андрюхин
btw, can't find it on hitbtc
Dave invited Dave
Kz
00:29
Kirill zp
panic sell
MF
00:30
Mr Flintstone
many people can’t see veo on hitbtc for whatever reason
00:30
I am not sure why
C
00:30
CK
doesn't work on my end either
00:30
tried multiple computers
Z
00:30
Zack
use vpn?
C
00:31
CK
i used on some and didn't use on others still nothing
MF
00:31
Mr Flintstone
I think only certain accounts can see it
00:31
I have a pretty old account as does zack I think
Z
00:31
Zack
I think I don't have an account. im not logged in
MF
00:31
Mr Flintstone
o
00:31
weird
00:32
someone said something about veobtc only being available for certain accounts on discord iirc, they reached out to hitbtc asking what the problem is
Z
00:32
Zack
maybe hitbtc is turning off trading so they can fake the price and make a profit when the other exchanges follow the pump
MF
00:32
Mr Flintstone
lol
00:32
I mean I have access to it so other people must
00:35
there isn’t much liquidity there anyways
00:35
compared to qtrade
А
00:38
maybe they delisted it due to low volume
MF
00:42
Mr Flintstone
sort the markets by price and you should see veo
DV
00:42
Denis Voskvitsov
nope, just wrong link
MF
00:43
Mr Flintstone
would be the quickest listing to delisting of all time lol
DV
00:43
well, now it redirects to the same place
А
00:43
Андрюхин
)
Z
00:43
Zack
I deleted the bad link
А
00:44
Андрюхин
still doesn't work for me.
00:44
and you can't find it in list of currencies.
Z
00:44
Zack
If you log out does it appear?
А
Z
00:46
Zack
So they are blocking some accounts from seeing it.
00:50
This is a pretty big arbitrage opportunity, if only some people can access hitbtc
00:52
you can buy 6 veo at 0.022 btc on qtrade, and sell them at 0.024 on hitbtc
00:52
I guess it's only a 0.6 veo profit on arbitrage
SS
00:54
Spike Spiegel
marketing making bot would be nice thing
00:54
Targeting low variability would lower the cost of holdign veo
MF
Z
00:56
Zack
that was like 4 minutes ago. opportunity is probably long gone now.
MF
01:01
Mr Flintstone
Abra is offering bitcoin settled CFD on equities...
01:02
they are saying this is legal
Z
01:02
Zack
thats great
MF
01:02
Mr Flintstone
if they are not bullshitting and it is legal this is a massive boon for amoveo
01:03
I dont believe them though until there is more evidence. but there is a lot at stake for them to say this, so maybe they are right
01:03
Deleted Account
With the huge spread right now its difficult to make $ on arbitrage. Add to this low volume of orders on hitbtc. Might improve though. My 5 cents: Binance is really in a different league user friendly wise. I think a lot of people dont understand how an exchange works. Binance could be a door opener for more than a trivial amount of users
Z
01:03
Zack
this looks like a finance app denominated in bitcoin, not with actual bitcoin
MF
01:03
Mr Flintstone
they take bitcoin deposits
01:04
i am not a lawyer but so many red flags are going off
01:04
no kyc?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
MF
01:06
Mr Flintstone
01:07
Veo contracts are all physical settlement
01:07
since they settle on chain
Z
01:07
Zack
haha, it is good that someone is out there fighting to get us better laws.
Deleted invited Deleted Account
AK
MF
01:08
Mr Flintstone
I think “big if true” is a massive understatement here
Z
01:08
Zack
im thinking this physical settlement is only working for people who buy like, bitcoin futures, right?
AK
01:08
A K
Brave folks
OK
01:08
O K
In reply to this message
I've heard roasbeef say lightning settlement occurs off chain, and delivery occurs on chain.
MF
01:09
Mr Flintstone
there are very specific old world financial definitions of these words
AK
01:09
A K
1broker was prosecuted for the same activity by CFTC
Z
01:09
Zack
if you use amoveo to buy a derivative on the price of coal, how could "physical settlement" not involve delivering coal?
MF
01:09
physical delivery is if you receive coal
AK
01:09
A K
Mmm after some time it was )
MF
01:09
Mr Flintstone
delivery =\= settlement
AK
01:09
A K
Abbra settles each trade on chain?
Z
01:10
Zack
I hope it works out. it would be nice if Amoveo centralized markets were confirmed legal in USA.
MF
01:10
Mr Flintstone
yes, that would be fantastic
01:10
I am pessimistic about it, but it is a surprise nonetheless
Z
01:10
Zack
im pretty sure otc derivatives are already legal everywhere?
MF
01:10
Mr Flintstone
I don’t think so
Z
01:10
Zack
since it is uncontrollable anyway
01:10
oh, well what do you know?
MF
01:11
Mr Flintstone
you need to be a registered insurance agent to sell insurance
01:11
for example
01:11
insurance is an otc derivative
Z
01:11
Zack
so which one of the symetric pair is "selling insurance"?
01:11
are they both at fault for scamming each other for not being registered?
MF
01:11
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
idk shit lol, just trying to piece information together best I can
SS
01:12
Spike Spiegel
decentralisation = unlimited legal liability for participants
Z
01:12
Zack
well, its pretty easy to avoid getting caught, and people already do these kinds of things for buying and selling crypto, so I think OTC derivatives will be an acceptable risk for most people.
01:13
if there is no central head to strike, we are like a school of fish. any individual is unlikely to get in trouble, it's not work the effort for a predator to go after any individual fish.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
Carl Yazz invited Carl Yazz
CY
02:30
Carl Yazz
This looks like a good investment
02:30
Deleted Account
why?
CY
02:31
Carl Yazz
Cause of the market cap
02:31
This guy zack is active
Z
02:31
Zack
good investment = undervalued.
CY
02:31
Carl Yazz
Hey zack may I ask you a question
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
02:31
Zack
yes
CY
02:32
Carl Yazz
I know this is a new coin and real progress takes time just out of my retail mineset lol I wanted to ask
02:32
Is there gonna be marketing
T
02:32
Tromp
In reply to this message
Hard to know if something is undervalued or overvalued in crypto dont you think?
CY
02:32
Carl Yazz
Or new exchanges like mercatox
Z
02:33
Zack
You can read more about Amoveo here:
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo
We need to get product market fit before it makes sense to do any advertising.
I do not pay for exchanges to list us.
This is what I am working on now:
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/issues/4
Amoveo uses futarhy governance to set the block reward, so we cannot predict what a max supply would be.
Eric Arsenault:
Here are instructions to create a derivative using Amoveo... feel free to add comments / edits: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V5lmk5t06HBoHnLC57zfN5fSU-AaWwTCiu7WL1qUTAo/edit
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo
We need to get product market fit before it makes sense to do any advertising.
I do not pay for exchanges to list us.
This is what I am working on now:
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/issues/4
Amoveo uses futarhy governance to set the block reward, so we cannot predict what a max supply would be.
Eric Arsenault:
Here are instructions to create a derivative using Amoveo... feel free to add comments / edits: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V5lmk5t06HBoHnLC57zfN5fSU-AaWwTCiu7WL1qUTAo/edit
CY
02:35
Carl Yazz
Ah ok cool
Zack pinned this message
02:37
Deleted Account
would it make sense to make private oracles for otc contracts
Z
02:37
Zack
if the oracle question isn't public, then how is anyone supposed to participate in reporting the outcome to the oracle?
02:38
Deleted Account
publish hash of question
02:38
if disupute reveal question
MF
02:38
Mr Flintstone
we need to come to consensus about how we want to treat hashes in oracle questions
02:39
we certainly don’t want amoveo to be used for assassinations etc
Z
02:39
Zack
that sounds like it might work. I can't immediately think of any reason it would not work.
Ill think about it some more in the coming days.
Ill think about it some more in the coming days.
02:39
Deleted Account
:)
Z
02:41
Zack
In reply to this message
having the hash of questions like this does make assassination contracts easier in some cases, but I think we might have other tricks to prevent assassinations.
Like we could agree that if a question mentions someone's death, we always report bad_question once we know that it is about someone's death.
Like we could agree that if a question mentions someone's death, we always report bad_question once we know that it is about someone's death.
CY
02:44
Carl Yazz
I can’t find the coin on hitbtc
Z
02:45
Zack
hitbtc is blocking some people. we don't know why.
CY
02:47
Carl Yazz
What do you mean
Z
02:47
Zack
some people can see veo on hitbtc, other people cannot.
S
02:50
Sebsebzen
hitbtc has a very bad reputation
SS
03:23
Spike Spiegel
what is happening to shares after "bad question"?
returned 1:1 so nobody is winning or losing money?
returned 1:1 so nobody is winning or losing money?
Z
03:24
Zack
In reply to this message
If you bet on bad-question you win.
If you bet on the other 2 you lose.
If you bet on the other 2 you lose.
03:24
So it is possible that Veo are destroyed
A
andyersata invited andyersata
Raul Vak invited Raul Vak
14:50
What is the meaning of " Not Secure" at the search bar?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
S
AK
16:04
A K
In reply to this message
Doesn't it grow from the tired discussion that Https is not necessary in light node?
S
16:22
Sebsebzen
true
θx invited θx
θ
17:03
θx
Hi, what's the max supply and inflation?
Z
θ
17:04
θx
ok...🤔
17:04
new to veo
Z
17:04
Zack
See the pinned message
AK
17:06
A K
current rate c. 100 veo / day
θ
17:06
θx
didn't find on github. is there block reward, time or reward half schedule?
AK
17:07
A K
block reward can be changed via governance mechanism (betting with VEO) (and has been lowered once already)
17:07
no halvings etc embedded
θ
17:08
θx
ah, thanks, so it's like roughly 100 veo per day, similar to grin
AK
17:08
A K
yeah, but Grin supply is fixed
17:09
veo can be changed and has been changed once already
T
AK
17:27
A K
yeah you're right
17:27
130 blocks per day at 0.66 or so?
17:27
(target is 144 blocks per day but historically has been lower)
Z
17:28
Zack
if we wanted 144 blocks per day, we would change the governance variable. It seems to me that the community wants 11 minutes per block, 130 per day
AK
17:30
A K
or lower, someone created the block reward oracle I think recently )
θ
17:31
θx
is there a place I can see block reward?
Z
17:33
Zack
trees:get(governance, block_reward).
64139933
17:33
with a full node it is easy
AK
θ
17:34
θx
thanks! I see
Z
18:54
Zack
Would it be useful to have a chalang compiler written in javascript?
Currently we embed compiled chalang as a binary into a javascript file.
With the centralized market, it is important that the javascript generated chalang bytecode is identical with the erlang generated bytecode, which means that we need to embed binaries.
But with p2p contracts between pairs of random users, there is no erlang server involved in the relationship, just 2 javascript browsers that need to generate the same contract.
So I am thinking in the p2p case, involving erlang in development at all is a mistake. It would be better if javascript could be aware of chalang opcodes. If javascript has access to the code before it is compiled, then it is easier to customize the contract for our situation. We could use javascript logic to piece together bits of chalang, which means we would need less logic in chalang, so the smart contract could be shorter.
It gives javascript hackers better access to contract creation.
I guess the drawback is how slow compilation can be.
It would be annoying for the user if they had to upload the compiled contracts every time they want to make a bet.
It would be bad for the development cycle if every time we tested a contract we had to wait more than a second for it to compile.
So this only makes sense if it can be a fairly fast compiler.
If the compiler accepts op-codes as input, then we can mix assembly in as necessary to achieve our speed goals.
Currently we embed compiled chalang as a binary into a javascript file.
With the centralized market, it is important that the javascript generated chalang bytecode is identical with the erlang generated bytecode, which means that we need to embed binaries.
But with p2p contracts between pairs of random users, there is no erlang server involved in the relationship, just 2 javascript browsers that need to generate the same contract.
So I am thinking in the p2p case, involving erlang in development at all is a mistake. It would be better if javascript could be aware of chalang opcodes. If javascript has access to the code before it is compiled, then it is easier to customize the contract for our situation. We could use javascript logic to piece together bits of chalang, which means we would need less logic in chalang, so the smart contract could be shorter.
It gives javascript hackers better access to contract creation.
I guess the drawback is how slow compilation can be.
It would be annoying for the user if they had to upload the compiled contracts every time they want to make a bet.
It would be bad for the development cycle if every time we tested a contract we had to wait more than a second for it to compile.
So this only makes sense if it can be a fairly fast compiler.
If the compiler accepts op-codes as input, then we can mix assembly in as necessary to achieve our speed goals.
19:02
Maybe we should add a reward for closing oracles, so that someone besides me will start doing it.
DV
20:11
Denis Voskvitsov
meanwhile, we decided to switch myveowallet.com to https.
not a big change from the security point of view but less of annoying notifications in browser.
(will need to resync headers on the first load)
not a big change from the security point of view but less of annoying notifications in browser.
(will need to resync headers on the first load)
S
20:57
Sebsebzen
Wohooo
ŽM
20:59
Živojin Mirić
we did not troll with thumbsup, it's the same as saying "nice" and it wasn't a big gif or sticker.. why delete? when binance?
AK
J
21:03
Jurko | Bermuda capital 📈
👍
Z
21:09
Zack
There are a lot of people being pinged with each message in this channel.
Let's try to keep our content productive.
Let's try to keep our content productive.
21:09
When we were smaller, thumbs ups were good. Now this channel is getting larger
ŽM
21:31
Živojin Mirić
It is not wise to have notifications ON on a group of 1238 members but I agree with you!
Š
21:33
Šea
In reply to this message
Man, turning off the notifications leads to missing some important stuff. Its better to be up to date then catching 50+(or even more) messages all the time
21:33
Think about it
ŽM
21:34
Živojin Mirić
In reply to this message
This is a chat for discussing Amoveo, please stick to the topic!
Š
21:35
Šea
Man, turning off the notifications leads to missing some important stuff about Amoveo. Its better to be up to date then catching 50+(or even more) messages about Amoveo all the time
AK
21:48
A K
kinda wish we started using Reddit more, discoverability and knowledge preservation rules
S
21:58
Sebsebzen
Discord
21:58
Or discus forum
21:58
Also alternatives
ŽM
21:58
Živojin Mirić
Discord!
S
21:58
Sebsebzen
We have one
DV
22:02
Denis Voskvitsov
discord can't make discussions searchable too. reddit can.
S
22:03
Sebsebzen
What about discus
22:03
22:04
AK
22:04
A K
disqus +- OK just requires maintaining an install + setting up accounts
22:04
reddit just works, millions of crypto enthusiasts there
DV
22:04
Denis Voskvitsov
we can set it up of course, but it's just another place while reddit already has tons of users, allows cross-posts to r/Cryptocurrency etc
AK
22:04
A K
discord is a chat - no threads no persistent topics no voting no karma etc
S
22:04
Sebsebzen
I’ll see if I find someone cheap to design a theme
22:05
For Reddit
22:05
That could make it more attractive
DV
22:05
Denis Voskvitsov
firstly we need to start using r/Amoveo
design etc can go after
design etc can go after
S
22:06
Sebsebzen
Bit chicken and egg
22:06
But in general experience, most activity for crypto moved to telegram and discord
22:06
Zack could do more stickies on reddit tho
22:06
Important stuff
AK
22:07
Alex K
Not active subreddit is a red flag for some investors
AK
22:07
A K
In reply to this message
an as a side effect, each growing group keeps answering the same questions when ppl join ))
22:08
when binance, when cmc, what block reward, when halving, what miner to use ))
S
22:08
Sebsebzen
When binance
DV
22:08
Denis Voskvitsov
I think we can start few futarchy discussions on reddit for instance, or another important matter (which is almost impossible to find afte rfew weeks in the chat)
also it's good place for announcements like those Zack makes time to time on discord
also it's good place for announcements like those Zack makes time to time on discord
S
22:08
Sebsebzen
Yep
ﾶ
22:56
ﾶ乇尺ﾚﾉ刀
Hey Guys
22:56
What is the max supply ?
ŽM
Z
ﾶ
22:58
ﾶ乇尺ﾚﾉ刀
Ok Thanks 🚀
S
S
23:04
Sebsebzen
Variable
23:04
:)
MF
23:12
Mr Flintstone
who knows what the market will tell us to do
23:12
but it will be what is best for the price and/or market cap
T
23:43
Tromp
Is there a simple guide for how to participate in governance?
23:44
Can someone anyone with just a few veos try to increase or decrease block reward?
Z
23:44
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/basics/using_governance.md
yes, but it is out of date.
yes, but it is out of date.
23:44
you can try to change the block reward for 0.022 veo I think
T
23:45
Tromp
Thanks
23:46
Lets say a fund comes in buys a ton of veo and tries to decrease block reward, that would put them in a game of chicken against miners?
23:47
But if miners believe this will benefit their holdings then they might not vote against?
Z
T
23:51
Tromp
Anyone would like to in the future do sone explainatory videos on how to bet and use governance?
Z
23:52
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/api/commands_oracle.md
Here you can participate in oracle bets.
Futarchy bets are off chain in the channels.
Here you can participate in oracle bets.
Futarchy bets are off chain in the channels.
23:52
You can use channels for futarchy bets.
8 February 2019
SP
OK
T
00:58
Tromp
So qtrade price is 60$ but hitbtc 80$, anyone able to access hitbtc trading or is it just very scammy?
MF
00:59
Mr Flintstone
I have access and can buy and sell veo
01:00
too lazy to do the arb tho
T
01:00
Tromp
😂😂
AK
01:00
A K
EMH goes bust
MF
01:00
Mr Flintstone
lol
01:07
wow the price on hitbtc is way higher than qtrade. maybe the arb is worth it
g
02:14
goons
Hitbtc may lock you out tho
02:14
They shaaaady
Я
MF
03:54
Mr Flintstone
yeah, when I looked there was probably 10-15 veo of depth on hitbtc that could be subject to arbitrage with qtrade, but seems like someone already did it
Juan invited Juan
J
04:04
Juan
good day everyone how to mine avomeo
04:07
Deleted Account
where buy $meo?
J
04:08
Juan
no admin
Z
04:10
Zack
DV
Deleted invited Deleted Account
MF
05:41
Mr Flintstone
it is unlikely anyone here will pay you for listing, but thanks for your interest
Limk (le loup de la blockchain) invited Limk (le loup de la blockchain)
SS
07:00
Spike Spiegel
We should change Amoveo name to Memeo
07:01
Cryptocurrency for zoomers playing fortnite
Z
07:31
Zack
I have 2 browsers open. one set up a contract, and sent encrypted instructions about it to the other through a server. the second browser downloaded and decrypted the instructions.
A payment in veo was automatically done to buy credits to afford to send encrypted messages.
We are getting near to having working otc derivatives.
A payment in veo was automatically done to buy credits to afford to send encrypted messages.
We are getting near to having working otc derivatives.
ŽM
DV
07:32
Denis Voskvitsov
great news. we'll need some simple explanation how to use this feature though after it's done
Z
07:33
Zack
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/issues/4
Join in the discussion.
Join in the discussion.
07:33
I doubt much explanation will be needed.
DV
07:33
Denis Voskvitsov
yep, I've started to read that. will check again.
Noreg invited Noreg
k
mixture invited mixture
Z
18:14
here is a preview of the page for accepting derivatives trades in the otc tool
Z
Caballero sin caballo invited Caballero sin caballo
Cs
20:10
Caballero sin caballo
guys i am new on crypto and i want mine veo ...there any guide or links for help
DV
Cs
20:11
Caballero sin caballo
thank u
20:14
there wallet for windows or not
DV
20:24
Denis Voskvitsov
there're web wallets, working on windows
also, windows desktop wallet (electron-based) is planned to release soon
also, windows desktop wallet (electron-based) is planned to release soon
Z
20:31
Zack
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo
This works in Windows
This works in Windows
20:36
Because of the way that hard fork worked, I think we are left with a few oracles that can never be closed.
20:37
I think we can do an upgrade to just ignore those oracles and stop displaying them.
9 February 2019
Z
00:42
Zack
I Amoveo's customer the person making the trade, or is our customer the broker trying to convince people he is fair?
01:53
Deleted Account
https://amoveo.io/whatis/ Looking at that comparison chart at the bottom, the project ratings crack me up. Especially the Elegance category. Amoveo 10/10 really? Oracles stuck after a hard fork, 1.8k VEO accidentally printed and sent to a burn address, etc 😂
Z
01:54
Zack
In reply to this message
Amoveo is a lot shorter than any competitor.
It's elegant in that it does a lot with a little.
It's elegant in that it does a lot with a little.
01:55
Deleted Account
Shorter in terms of codebase complexity?
M
01:56
Minieep21
it's not the size of the sword, it's how you use it 🌚
Z
01:56
Zack
Amoveo is 10x to 100x smaller than the competitors
02:14
Deleted Account
Nice. Here's a comparison w/ the Augur repo:
https://gist.github.com/chejazi/8ec7b0c2a1c5948b9c530df6c668625b
https://gist.github.com/chejazi/8ec7b0c2a1c5948b9c530df6c668625b
Z
02:17
Zack
When you compare with augur, you should either only consider the smart contract on amoveo, or you should include all of ethereum with augur.
02:26
Deleted Account
Scope is defined by the project contributors. Just because Amoveo uses a custom blockchain does not mean that a blockchain implementation is a part of Augur's contribution scope.
Pushpesh Jha invited Pushpesh Jha
R
04:28
Robot085
how to run hive os , who knows?
А
04:29
Андрюхин
What do you mean ?
R
04:43
:)
TG
05:08
Toby Ganger
does anyone know how to get the circulating supply fixed on CMC? there’s no point in being on there really if it’s going to have it permanently buried on the bottom due to it’s circulating supply being “?"
MF
05:40
Mr Flintstone
I believe some people are working on that
TG
Z
05:58
Zack
The exan.tech guys have been emailing with coinmarketcap. It looks like it will be resolved soon.
Crypto Masters invited Crypto Masters
TG
?
09:21
🤠Anton
In reply to this message
I’m emailing with CMC. The thing is that they are calculating circulating supply on the basis of trading volume on at least 3 exchanges listed on CMC (we have them but there is almost zero volume on bitibu, so we don’t meet this requirement) + they are asking about whale wallets to be sure there are no locked VEOs. We are providing them all the info to get CS calculated
S
09:27
Sebsebzen
I did like 10 USD volume on bitibu
TG
Z
17:11
Zack
I mistakenly thought that OX was a system of state channels.
It looks like OX is an on-chain order book, where a couple of features have been moved off-chain.
You can negotiate a trading fee off-chain. You can add or cancel an unmatched trade to the order book off-chain. Everything else is on-chain.
They are using an on-chain automatic market maker, similar to the LMSR in augur's markets, in order to trade different subcurrencies.
It looks like OX is an on-chain order book, where a couple of features have been moved off-chain.
You can negotiate a trading fee off-chain. You can add or cancel an unmatched trade to the order book off-chain. Everything else is on-chain.
They are using an on-chain automatic market maker, similar to the LMSR in augur's markets, in order to trade different subcurrencies.
17:12
Veil is using Ox.
17:14
sub-currencies and channels just can't work together.
When you create a channel, you lock some money inside. The channel contracts in that channel can only have control over money that is locked in a channel.
So if you want to use a subcurrency in a channel, you would have needed to lock that particular subcurrency into the channel when you first made the channel.
Instead we should use cash-settled derivatives to make a portfolio that has the risk profile you are interested in.
When you create a channel, you lock some money inside. The channel contracts in that channel can only have control over money that is locked in a channel.
So if you want to use a subcurrency in a channel, you would have needed to lock that particular subcurrency into the channel when you first made the channel.
Instead we should use cash-settled derivatives to make a portfolio that has the risk profile you are interested in.
Deri Septian Nugroho invited Deri Septian Nugroho
10 February 2019
Michael Collins invited Michael Collins
k
Z
05:08
Zack
The light-node can now create a new channel with a custom bet directly between pairs of users.
We still do not have tools for closing this channels and resolving the bet. https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/issues/4
We still do not have tools for closing this channels and resolving the bet. https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo/issues/4
B
17:51
Ben
nice work zack!
S
19:02
Sebsebzen
Veo never sleeps
Z
19:09
Zack
The developer reward unlocked.
I can't thank you all enough. I am fortunate to be able to work on something I care about, and to have the support of such terrific people. Working for you has been the best year of my life. I hope to continue participating in this community for many more years.
I can't thank you all enough. I am fortunate to be able to work on something I care about, and to have the support of such terrific people. Working for you has been the best year of my life. I hope to continue participating in this community for many more years.
M
EW
19:18
Eli W
In reply to this message
👍🏻 you deserve it , looking forward for amoveo have some useful functionality that benefit the society and the end result is amoveo is one of the top blockchain in next few years 🎉
S
19:22
Sebsebzen
In reply to this message
Congrats! After hearing the horrorstories of your past employments I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying your work now. Veo has so much pontetial and hope that you will stick with us for many years to come. Thanks for making this all happen, milestone reached. Many more good memories to come 2019 :)
X
Š
19:35
Šea
In reply to this message
Such a lovely message from the most beloved dev around!-almost worth sharing on Twitter. Keep up a fenomenal work Zack!
S
19:49
It's been a year already? Damn :D
Z
19:54
Deleted Account
Good work Zack. You deserve it even though I tried reducing reward xD
S
19:56
Veo will be much higher soon, I'm sure
T
EW
Š
19:59
Šea
In reply to this message
So you are advising Zack to dump later, when the price is higher?
S
19:59
Sebsebzen
Cover living expenses
Š
20:00
Šea
Why dumping in the first place, who needs money
ŽM
20:01
Živojin Mirić
No dump, permahold until Veo takes over derivatives markets!
T
20:01
Tromp
He said he wouldnt dump any time soon, plus now he is highly incentivized to make veo value increase
ŽM
20:01
Živojin Mirić via @gif
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ŽM
20:01
Živojin Mirić
Zack congrats! Keep on the good work!
Z
20:09
Zack
I am not planning on selling any time soon.
Amoveo has more potential.
Amoveo has more potential.
Š
20:12
Šea
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Deleted invited Deleted Account
s
k
θ
22:52
θx
i'm new here, but Zack is the most active dev I've seen. 👍
11 February 2019
Z
00:36
Zack
https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1094607204215214082?s=19
Interesting design suggestion.
Currently, a 51% majority of miners could censor channel slash txs to potentially steal money from channels.
If we switched our consensus mechanism to use this lamport 99% mechanism, then you would need to control 99% of the hashpower or whatever to be able to censor users from closing their channels.
But we would all need to come online together at the same time once every 2 weeks.
That would be a little intense. Reminds me of muslim prayer rituals.
Interesting design suggestion.
Currently, a 51% majority of miners could censor channel slash txs to potentially steal money from channels.
If we switched our consensus mechanism to use this lamport 99% mechanism, then you would need to control 99% of the hashpower or whatever to be able to censor users from closing their channels.
But we would all need to come online together at the same time once every 2 weeks.
That would be a little intense. Reminds me of muslim prayer rituals.
00:39
If we only had one block per 2 weeks, how many txs would go into that block?
AK
00:46
A K
That sounds like a Drivechain sidechain for BTC , settlement to onchain every 6 months afair
00:46
To have such a block time on a main chain is super impractical imo
MF
00:47
Mr Flintstone
what happens if we make it 1 week instead, or like a few days
Z
00:48
Zack
This kind of consensus hasn't been tested.
What does it mean for the users to be watching the consensus, if the pool of users is always changing?
What does it mean for the users to be watching the consensus, if the pool of users is always changing?
00:50
If only a fraction of users actually set up a node to watch consensus, and an attack occurs, will the small subset of users who watched be able to warn the rest of us?
MF
00:51
Mr Flintstone
is the block time in this scheme random?
Z
00:52
Zack
What if we put the entire lamport process on bitcoin. So it would take at least 1 block per step of lamport.
Then we could all be observers after the fact.
Then we could all be observers after the fact.
00:52
In reply to this message
So every step of lamport consensus would have the hash of its value inside a tx of a bitcoin block
[
00:56
[Riki]
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00:56
Congrats
Z
00:57
Zack
I feel like it's going to be too difficult to solve the problem where people sign up to participate in the lamport consensus, and then fail to participate.
00:58
Maybe if everyone who signs up needs to make a safety deposit
01:04
Deleted Account
I wouldnt dwell to much on anything relying on someone having >50% hashrate. All hell _could_ break loose then. But that assumes both ability to get 51% and will to use that power for bad
MF
01:06
Mr Flintstone
it doesn’t take much to get 51% of a small coin
01:06
but it might to get 99%
Z
01:07
Zack
When you explore consensus mechanisms, sometimes you make realizations that are applicable in other areas.
Amoveo's oracle design has almost nothing in common with the other truth coin projects. Instead, the Oracle is based off of various experimental proof of stake ideas.
Amoveo's oracle design has almost nothing in common with the other truth coin projects. Instead, the Oracle is based off of various experimental proof of stake ideas.
Z
05:02
Zack
Haha, maybe Ethereum proof of stake research has done more for Amoveo than Ethereum.
Z
17:07
Zack
American prison gangs are using a polycentric legal system, while the rest of USA is using a centralized law organized by voting.
From a game theory perspective, the prison gangs have the better legal system. It costs less to enforce, protects member's rights more effectively, and it has a rational strategy for deciding which rules should be law, and it is highly resistant to being manipulated by a rich person.
USA centralized law can be controlled by lobbyists. There is zero feedback keeping price under control. It is prone to bribery and propaganda of voters.
From a game theory perspective, the prison gangs have the better legal system. It costs less to enforce, protects member's rights more effectively, and it has a rational strategy for deciding which rules should be law, and it is highly resistant to being manipulated by a rich person.
USA centralized law can be controlled by lobbyists. There is zero feedback keeping price under control. It is prone to bribery and propaganda of voters.
SS
21:35
Spike Spiegel
Zack
What do you think about creating bounties on Gitcoin for improving usability of amoveo?
What do you think about creating bounties on Gitcoin for improving usability of amoveo?
21:35
Usually for sub $1k one can get multiple willing people to actually try & test the software and only correct submission are paid
21:36
I think it would be great idea to create some kind of collaborative fund: I can pay $10 a month for VEO improvements but I would be willing to pay more if my contribution would be matched with another participants - say 100 people contributing $10 a month = $1000 a month for amoveo improvement grants
21:37
Tv
22:30
Tarrence van As
Great idea!
S
22:36
Gitcoin is an excellent project
22:36
I’ve heard good things
SP
22:48
Stepan Panov
Hey guys, I'm currently putting together a little FAQ of the most recent questions that are being asked here almost daily, like the correctt links to HitBTC and CMC, reasons as to why Circulating Supply is currently unknown on CMC, max supply, OTC trade, what are the block rewards, block time and so on. Any suggestions of what else I should include? Maybe questions that have been frequently asked within the last month.
22:48
Going to post it on Reddit
S
22:53
Sebsebzen
Zack on this note, how about updating the reddit CSS to Naut theme, it only takes a minute or so
22:54
standard one is already good
Z
23:21
Zack
In reply to this message
They should use amoveo dominant assurance contracts.
If we aren't willing to use amoveo to build amoveo, then how can we convince anyone else to use amoveo?
If we aren't willing to use amoveo to build amoveo, then how can we convince anyone else to use amoveo?
ŽM
Tv
23:33
Tarrence van As
I 100% agree but dominate assurance contracts dont work rn
23:34
At least aren’t easy to use
23:34
Maybe fund a gitcoin project to make them easy to use?
Z
23:36
Zack
If anyone wants to do a dominant assurance contract, I am here to walk them through every step of the process. I can write the txs and fund the contracts etc. Since I want to participate as the entrepreneur
12 February 2019
Z
02:22
Here is a dominant assurance contract.
7FGyJKf4/4dRpAqNprNCKvniLLB7OLZrPseHYZ5glZY=
http://139.59.144.76:8080/explorer.html
7FGyJKf4/4dRpAqNprNCKvniLLB7OLZrPseHYZ5glZY=
http://139.59.144.76:8080/explorer.html
MF
02:23
Mr Flintstone
nice
Z
02:25
Zack
Someone wants to tranlsate the amoveo white paper to arabic
02:25
I will act as the entrepenuer and made bets at 1:9 odds.
So if you want to invest, you should bet that the document will not get translated, and you should pay a price of at least 90.
That way either the document gets translated, or you get your money back and 10 percent interest
So if you want to invest, you should bet that the document will not get translated, and you should pay a price of at least 90.
That way either the document gets translated, or you get your money back and 10 percent interest
02:26
Lets say you expect this translation to make Amoveo 1% more valuable, then it is optimal to invest about 0.5% of your veo into this dominant assurance contract, to hedge your risk.
02:27
I will only be accepting up to 10 veo of investments, that way I don't have to lock up too much money in the channels.
T
03:05
Tromp
Why to arabic? 😂
Z
03:05
Zack
they speak arabic, they want a job, they asked me to help them make a dominant assurance contract for this.
03:06
03:06
They said they are from Morocco
03:07
haha, how could you use Amoveo to degrade a woman's rights?
03:08
Lots of people speak Arabic, a lot of them don't have access to good financial tools. Maybe they will find ways to use Amoveo.
03:09
How do you tourture a journalist with Amoveo?
You throw your miliveos directly in their eye?
You throw your miliveos directly in their eye?
03:11
Violence occurs when groups of people have trouble making decisions, when powerful people want to take control of the decisions.
Amoveo powered futarchy is a way to prevent violence by peacefully finding the optimal decision for the group.
Amoveo powered futarchy is a way to prevent violence by peacefully finding the optimal decision for the group.
M
Z
03:14
Zack
futarchy works best if everyone is able to participate, but it still works very well, even when only a small minority participates.
Š
03:14
Šea
In reply to this message
"Miliveos directly in their eye" LOL cause whole veo is too large, would kill the man easily if you throw 1 veo on it
03:15
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03:15
That was funny Zack! I really laughed out loud😂😂
S
04:15
Sebsebzen
Chinese would be urgently needed too
04:15
I think some contect already exists in ZH
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Z
14:19
Zack
In reply to this message
if you open the explorer you can see 57308
it expires in about a month.
it expires in about a month.
s
15:17
sanket
Ok thanks.
SP
21:35
Stepan Panov
In reply to this message
Quick question, when you say 'you should pay a price of at least 90', what units do you mean?
MF
22:02
Mr Flintstone
it’s like saying you are paying 90 cents for the possibility of receiving either 1 dollar back or 0 dollars back
22:03
so it’s like odds
SP
22:06
Stepan Panov
Got it now, thanks!
Z
22:13
Zack
I got the binary derivatives working for the p2p contracts in the light node.
The next step is for some of us to test this out in the testnet, to make sure it acts how we expect it to in all the edge cases. https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo
The next step is for some of us to test this out in the testnet, to make sure it acts how we expect it to in all the edge cases. https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/light-node-amoveo
22:14
Ill add some documentation now.
22:28
I added some documentation to the light-node readme.
22:29
I installed the message passing software on the server, and set it up in testnet mode.
So now we should be able to test P2P derivatives in the testnet.
So now we should be able to test P2P derivatives in the testnet.
22:29
For now it only supports binary derivatives, but I will add scalar soon.
22:31
This is an exciting day. I hope that these P2P derivatives are the feature that achieves product market fit for Amoveo.
MF
22:52
Mr Flintstone
very cool! excited to try these on testnet soon
13 February 2019
Deleted invited Deleted Account
09:06
Deleted Account
Hello, i have looked at Amoveo project, we want to cooperate and invest a lot of funds, but still have couple of questions, if it is possible then, Admin, please PM me so we can sort things out!
MF
09:12
Mr Flintstone
hi ben, happy to answer any questions you have about amoveo here
A
Z
13:53
Zack
In reply to this message
Advertising before we have product market fit is a waste.
You can't advertise product features if we haven't decided on the features.
You can't advertise to our target users, if we havent decided who our target users are.
You can't advertise product features if we haven't decided on the features.
You can't advertise to our target users, if we havent decided who our target users are.
Z
15:27
Zack
In reply to this message
Eventually.
But we need to start with a smaller targeted market before we expand.
At first, software is of low quality. Only people who desperately need it are willing to use it.
So we need to identify and target the most desperate potential users.
But we need to start with a smaller targeted market before we expand.
At first, software is of low quality. Only people who desperately need it are willing to use it.
So we need to identify and target the most desperate potential users.
A
15:28
Aries
Oh Zack I was not agreeing with him. Frankly for Standard ICO bullshit marketing I think he’s right
15:29
For projects like Amoveo that achieve Unstoppability he is entirely wrong.
J
18:49
Vote for veo