Amoveo ♥🧿
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23 May 2018
09:12
Deleted Account
At least you're on top of it, I appreciate that
OK
09:13
O K
Trying to make improvements sometimes causes the things that usually go right to go wrong
09:16
Deleted Account
Any luck on the orphaned blocks from earlier?
OK
09:17
O K
We are running the updated node code, the list has shrunk slightly so that's a good sign. Will have to see how it plays out overnight
09:18
Deleted Account
👌🏻
Андрюхин invited Андрюхин
J
09:26
Juggy
Can you check the activity on my public wallet? I've been mining for 12 hours on 8x 1080ti with almost nothing gained
OK
09:26
O K
What's your address?
09:28
Deleted Account
news logo
09:28
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OK
09:29
O K
Lol I saw that
T
09:39
Topab
09:39
Same problem in this pool
09:42
Ok, got it. reda it above
Deleted joined group by link from Group
DY
11:32
Demi Yilmaz
WTB any amount @ $350 pm me
Tina invited Tina
T
11:37
Tina
Hi how much VEO price now？
HN
11:54
H N
600 $
L
HN
11:56
H N
well people selling it 600 dollar now
11:56
whats wrong with that
L
11:56
Larry
nothing
11:56
i love it
11:57
I'm not on discord so not following the OTC trades
11:57
know what kind of size being filled at $600?
HN
11:57
H N
don't know
11:57
but it keep going
11:57
selling and buying
L
11:58
Larry
very nice
11:58
this project is cool. the team seems solid.
11:58
onward!
HN
11:59
H N
yeah
12:01
Deleted Account
500$
HN
12:02
H N
650$
12:03
Deleted Account
lowest is 500$ now
HN
12:28
H N
nah
12:28
my grandmother also buying
12:29
so no
12:29
Deleted Account
U don't know so don't say no
12:30
I could wash trade on discord, pump up the price, the unload my bag on people like u. Rekt.
HN
12:44
H N
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12:44
Go for it
12:44
Not only you have money buddy
12:45
Deleted Account
Sorry for exposing ur game, now u r fussy
HN
12:49
H N
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12:59
Deleted Account
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12:59
👆 you trying to pump n dump
T
13:12
Tina
8x1080Ti GPU mining 1 VEO how long time? thanks
DY
13:13
Demi Yilmaz
WTB any amount @ $350 pm me
HN
DY
T
13:39
Topab
13:39
Does it look like mining correctly?
DY
T
f
14:12
felicity_9
what the total amount of VEO？
IP
f
14:50
felicity_9
I mean total
IP
15:01
I P
In reply to this message
total is unlimited but it will take 300 years or so to mine 21mln coins like btc...veo emission is pretty slow. and read github about governance and oracles, block time and block reward actually can be changes in future through governance oracle, how cool is that? we already used it to lower min spend tx fees
DY
f
15:19
felicity_9
thanks for your explanation
Anh Nguyen invited Anh Nguyen
Deleted invited Deleted Account
C1
18:21
CARS 10
In reply to this message
Thanks catweed, I think that doesn’t contains the all Infos. I can use it, but I didn’t get any information about date/ time of a transaction! Can I include it?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
21:12
Zack
Yesterday we had an update to prevent txs from getting dropped when blocks are orphaned by sharing new txs more aggressively.
Today I undid that update from yesterday, and instead solved the same problem more elegantly.
When a node orphans a block, it immediately tries to re-add all the txs from that block into the txpool.
Today I undid that update from yesterday, and instead solved the same problem more elegantly.
When a node orphans a block, it immediately tries to re-add all the txs from that block into the txpool.
MF
21:20
Mr Flintstone
nice
21:22
new diff +50%
21:22
should be around 19101
J
21:25
Juggy
How long should a payment take to clear from the pool pending confirmation to my wallet? I've had two payments pending for a while now
21:25
And by a while, I mean one has been pending for over a day
OK
21:26
Hopefully Zack's commit will help
J
21:26
Juggy
Ok, I will stand by for today then, thanks.
Z
21:35
Zack
In reply to this message
orphans aren't very frequent.
There must be something else that would delay a tx by 24 hours
There must be something else that would delay a tx by 24 hours
OK
21:36
O K
Yes, our resubmit delay + orphan frequency
21:36
Or lost tx
21:36
However it is happening since the fee oracle closed
Z
21:36
Zack
Each account has a nonce that increases every time it publishes a tx.
Each tx has a nonce bigger than the accounts current nonce to be valid.
So if you include a tx with nonce 1000, then it invalidates all txs with nonce <1000.
Each tx has a nonce bigger than the accounts current nonce to be valid.
So if you include a tx with nonce 1000, then it invalidates all txs with nonce <1000.
21:37
So if a tx with nonce 1000 is published, then you can be certain all the txs with nonce <1000 will never be published. so you can re-make them immediately
Korney invited Korney
MS
21:49
Matvii Sivoraksha
Опа, кукусики
Z
21:55
Zack
@potat_o
Maybe try waiting 1 second between each tx that you publish. This will give your node more time to calculate your new nonce.
If this fixes it, I will try and remove concurrency between publishing txs, or I will try calculating your nonce differently.
Maybe try waiting 1 second between each tx that you publish. This will give your node more time to calculate your new nonce.
If this fixes it, I will try and remove concurrency between publishing txs, or I will try calculating your nonce differently.
OK
22:04
O K
In reply to this message
Here's the thing.
1. We have been using the same payment system without this issue _since_the_beginning_, so it's tried and tested.
2. The tx backlog started when the fee oracle closed.
3. We changed the sleep delay, like you just suggested, from 2 seconds (which always worked fine) to 3 seconds.
4. I've had complaints in PM from other pool operators. I have had traders message me saying they spent money to someone on only 1 confirmation and had it disappear.
5. Orphan rate has been as high as 1 in 5 blocks sometimes, you even messaged me yourself about this high orphan rate. That is a lot.
Maybe it isn't orphans and is somehow related to sharing txpool with bad nodes who were unable to receive the oracle fee update. Maybe there are two separate problems here.
1. We have been using the same payment system without this issue _since_the_beginning_, so it's tried and tested.
2. The tx backlog started when the fee oracle closed.
3. We changed the sleep delay, like you just suggested, from 2 seconds (which always worked fine) to 3 seconds.
4. I've had complaints in PM from other pool operators. I have had traders message me saying they spent money to someone on only 1 confirmation and had it disappear.
5. Orphan rate has been as high as 1 in 5 blocks sometimes, you even messaged me yourself about this high orphan rate. That is a lot.
Maybe it isn't orphans and is somehow related to sharing txpool with bad nodes who were unable to receive the oracle fee update. Maybe there are two separate problems here.
Z
22:12
Zack
1) yes, I realize that you have a closed source patch to solve this problem. But I would rather have open source working software, instead of expecting everyone who runs a full node to re-invent a closed source patch.
Besides mining pools, everyone running a market needs to have a full node too, and everyone running channel hubs.
3) you already had a delay. Then my guess was wrong. Thanks for sharing.
4) thanks for telling me, I didn't know this happened.
5) I didn't realize it was so high.
So the update I just made might solve the dropped tx problem.
Besides mining pools, everyone running a market needs to have a full node too, and everyone running channel hubs.
3) you already had a delay. Then my guess was wrong. Thanks for sharing.
4) thanks for telling me, I didn't know this happened.
5) I didn't realize it was so high.
So the update I just made might solve the dropped tx problem.
OK
22:17
O K
Re: 1) I would love to work with you more to solve these issues, but when I message you about them, you have a tendency to:
a) express skepticism, "Let's see if this problem is actually happening"
b) say, "well it's closed source so I can't help you" — or related,
c) take my lack of technical precision in language as meaning the problem is user-error, or is not a real problem, rather than trying to infer meaning or asking guided questions to try to better understand.
I think there are some of us who have been around and involved enough that if we describe some oddity to you, even if we can't explain it in detail, to just acknowledge that yes that is odd, and if we haven't changed anything on our end, that maybe the problem is in the network, so that we can help you fix the problem for everyone. Some action should be taken.
a) express skepticism, "Let's see if this problem is actually happening"
b) say, "well it's closed source so I can't help you" — or related,
c) take my lack of technical precision in language as meaning the problem is user-error, or is not a real problem, rather than trying to infer meaning or asking guided questions to try to better understand.
I think there are some of us who have been around and involved enough that if we describe some oddity to you, even if we can't explain it in detail, to just acknowledge that yes that is odd, and if we haven't changed anything on our end, that maybe the problem is in the network, so that we can help you fix the problem for everyone. Some action should be taken.
Pac Man invited Pac Man
Z
22:23
Zack
I am sorry if I haven't been listening well enough.
You are a valued member of Amoveo, and I am glad that you share with me what is going on.
You are a valued member of Amoveo, and I am glad that you share with me what is going on.
OK
22:23
O K
In reply to this message
That means a lot, I will try to do better at getting you information in a more timely and precise manner
22:25
Deleted Account
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S
22:25
Sebsebzen
Group hug! I love this
ES
22:25
Ed Sonic
❤️
HN
22:28
H N
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K
22:30
Kale
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MF
22:31
Mr Flintstone
a beautiful moment
22:34
Deleted Account
O K is a nice guy
22:34
Thanks for his efforts in maintaining Pool2
22:34
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
OK
22:35
O K
Thanks bo
22:37
Deleted Account
Welcome tto Guangzhou, China. I will invite you to have a great dinner
OK
22:37
O K
That would be lovely, I hope to take you up on that some day
22:37
Deleted Account
😀😀
G
22:46
Gonzalo
👏😍
S
22:50
Sebsebzen
Same for Thailand
22:50
O K is pretty OK :)
MF
22:56
Mr Flintstone
amoveo did over 1k tx for the first time today !
22:56
22:59
1k spends *
K
23:03
Kale
O K is a nice guy
23:03
Help me a lot
K
23:42
Kale
evilpokerqueen -：just get Sy and OK to raise to 10% for couple of weeks, this method worked very well recently on ARO for an exchange listing feeevilpokerqueen -
OK
23:43
O K
I would contribute to a dominant assurance contract for such a goal
23:43
Might be a bit early
23:44
What if Pham added an "ef=" argument — 'exchange fee'
23:44
So every miner could choose
K
23:45
Kale
yes
Z
23:45
Zack
I am pretty sure OK would want to participate as an entrepreneur in a contract like that
K
23:45
Kale
but i think no miner will do it
23:46
as we can see,miner only care about money
23:46
mining,selling,withdraw
Z
23:47
Zack
OK could make money by raising his fees, and he could make money as an entrepenuer. His greed for money is aligned with Amoveo's success.
OK
23:48
O K
Raising avp2 fees alone to 10% would be a death sentence for avp2. Every pool would have to be on board, and even then, "Selfish Pool" would probably start, and take the cake
23:49
Cartels aren't easy to maintain, even "altruistic" ones
K
23:49
Kale
maybe we should make a ico,rasie money for asics miner
OK
J
23:57
Jim
In reply to this message
This could make sense as a business decision if OK was guaranteed a certain allocation of these ASICs, and pays resulting hashpower in form of dividends
23:58
Can dominant assurance contracts interact physically in that way?
S
23:58
Sebsebzen
How’s FGPA btw
Z
23:59
Zack
fpga
24 May 2018
S
00:01
Sebsebzen
I wanna pretend it’s a typo, but it wasn’t
OK
00:02
O K
Lol I didn't even notice, I thought you both typed the same thing
Z
00:06
Zack
field programmable gate array
S
00:08
Sebsebzen
Yeah I mixed it with gpu
Deleted invited Deleted Account
B
00:50
Ben
FPGA for amoveo is not feasable
00:50
i checked that with an FPGA DEV and you would get 16-20 GIG out of an XILIX Ultrascale+ FPGA which cost 6k
00:50
so not worth at all
OK
00:51
O K
In reply to this message
What do people that have those FPGAs already do with their cards right now?
B
00:51
Ben
kekkak lyra2z
00:51
cryptoknight
00:51
eth
00:51
equihash
00:51
you name it
OK
00:51
O K
But, surely they aren't more profitable?
B
00:52
Ben
not in the short run
OK
00:52
O K
Or you're just saying they're more FPGA efficient?
B
00:52
Ben
and they are hard to obtain
OK
00:52
O K
I see
B
00:52
Ben
this algo is perfect for ASIC
00:52
asic will crush it
MF
00:53
Mr Flintstone
I think there were some fpga linked in the discord
00:53
for 3-4k usd each
00:53
someone said it could potentially get 80 gh/s
B
00:56
Ben
i say bullshit
00:56
at that rate i would instant buy 100
00:56
can you link me to who that said?
OK
00:56
O K
I don't think they are much faster than GPUs, from what I've read... just don't use much power
B
00:56
Ben
yeah
MF
01:01
Mr Flintstone
I think it was in the dkat-mining channel?
01:01
I am not mining expert
01:01
so I’m just relaying what I saw
B
01:21
Ben
thanks found it.
K
01:26
Kale
FPGA is useless
01:26
asics is only choose
IP
01:29
I P
In reply to this message
trully asic resistant algo and decentralization through gpu mining is the only choice. Zack does not like it because gpu miners can switch algos/coins but i don't see at as a problem, was never a problem for ethereum
MF
01:34
Mr Flintstone
no such thing as true asic resistance
01:34
you can always make a machine more specific in its computation
01:34
like zack says, increasing complexity of asic resistant algo just makes it easier to protect your asic r&d
IP
01:35
I P
In reply to this message
https://github.com/ifdefelse/ProgPOW well if these guys accomoplish what they claim asics will get only +20% in efficiency. Actually for ethash current asics are only like 2x effective compared to gpus
S
01:39
Sebsebzen
MTP is pretty asic resistant
01:39
Memory hard
01:41
There are certain features of MTP that makes it more challenging than existing algorithms to develop an ASIC:
its large use of memory. MTP can use memory anywhere from 2 GB to 8 GB. Although the original paper described the use of 2 GB of RAM, we believe for future proofing, it makes sense to increase this to 4 GB of RAM in our implementation. This size is large enough to make the use of SRAM or eDRAM unfeasible at this point in time. This compares favorably to Scrypt's use of 128 kb of memory (as used in Litecoin) or Cryptonight's use of 2MB (as used in Monero).
MTP can be implemented in such a way that MTP memory capacity can be a function of the current difficulty and the block number if required that we foresee will greatly increases the development cost of any ASIC.
its large use of memory. MTP can use memory anywhere from 2 GB to 8 GB. Although the original paper described the use of 2 GB of RAM, we believe for future proofing, it makes sense to increase this to 4 GB of RAM in our implementation. This size is large enough to make the use of SRAM or eDRAM unfeasible at this point in time. This compares favorably to Scrypt's use of 128 kb of memory (as used in Litecoin) or Cryptonight's use of 2MB (as used in Monero).
MTP can be implemented in such a way that MTP memory capacity can be a function of the current difficulty and the block number if required that we foresee will greatly increases the development cost of any ASIC.
01:45
First implementation should be our end of the month
01:45
*out end of month
01:54
Not shilling coin. But article is re asic resistance
04:29
Deleted Account
@potat_o it's scary how it ended up accurate anyways (if you remember from yesterday )
04:29
OK
04:31
O K
Oh? That's good right?
HN
04:48
H N
Hnm payout from veopool still got a problem, i didnt get my previous two payout on my wallet.
04:48
Anyone got the same problem?
04:48
Or should i wait 24 hours Zack
OK
04:52
O K
Its every pool
04:52
I think every pool operator is aware and is doing their best
HN
04:54
H N
Ah okay
04:54
Thanks
Z
04:57
Zack
No one is complaining for lack of payout from my pool.
OK
04:58
O K
Another pool operator is running your open source code and having the same problems. It's a matter of volume of payments and luck.
Z
05:10
Zack
who, CN pool?
I was talking with Aaron today, he showed me the code.
He wrote some stuff for keeping track of individual workers, and it was causing problems.
I was talking with Aaron today, he showed me the code.
He wrote some stuff for keeping track of individual workers, and it was causing problems.
HN
05:14
H N
Its sy
05:14
S
05:14
Sy
yep, looking good so far
05:14
i think
HN
05:14
H N
Also complaining the same problem
S
05:14
Sy
last 28 payouts finally went through
05:14
waiting for the next 50 i issued
05:15
2 blocks without them tho -.-
05:15
yep, they are gone
HN
05:15
H N
:(. So no payment for me
05:15
?
S
05:19
Sy
not yet
05:19
trying to pay everyone for 4h now
05:19
sometimes it works, sometimes i have to retry after a few blocks of nothing
HN
05:19
H N
Okay sy. Thank you
S
Zack changed group title to «Amoveo Official»
L
05:52
Larry
nice! 👍
05:52
we're official
S
05:52
Sebsebzen
wohoo
L
05:53
Larry via @gif
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HN
05:53
H N
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903.1 KB
S
05:55
Sebsebzen
Sticker
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😠, 32.0 KB
A
05:55
Aries
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S
05:56
Sebsebzen
Now we have to read everything that gets posted in the channel in a mental newsanchor voice
05:56
narrated by Morgan Freeman
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐 invited Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
JS
06:07
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
Whats max supply of this coin? Just started mining it today
ES
06:27
Ed Sonic
No max - about 300 years to get to 21m coins like btc
JS
06:28
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
so im an idiot and just got referred to this coin - help me out on why its so expensive so far? Good team, etc..?
S
06:28
Sebsebzen
Who referred you?
[
06:29
[Riki]
tell him not to shill 😄
S
06:32
Sebsebzen
it's not really expensive when you think mVEO
JS
S
06:43
Sebsebzen
haha no, just wanted to make it sound like we're fight club
JS
06:44
Jon Snow
It’s only around $12m mkt cap. Not expensive for a live product.
JS
06:45
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
A trusted investor friend wanted me to mine it since he cant....just never seen just a high $$$ for a coin in this stage
S
JS
06:46
Jon Snow
About $0.5 per MVEO now.
S
JS
06:46
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
Looks great from what he says
07:10
Deleted Account
500usd per veo now?
MF
07:10
Mr Flintstone
seems to be about that, yeah
07:11
there are bids for 500. I bet you could sell for a little more with the right quantity
07:11
im a bit worried about the upcoming difficulty tick tho :S
07:12
when's that due?
OK
07:12
24k
MF
07:12
Mr Flintstone
another 300 blocks or so
07:12
Deleted Account
shit thats 331 blocks
MF
07:12
Mr Flintstone
yeah
07:12
Deleted Account
how much do you think the difficulty will increasy?
MF
07:13
Mr Flintstone
+50%
07:13
it’s already determined
07:13
Deleted Account
shiiit....
MF
07:13
Mr Flintstone
lol last time was 80%
07:13
Deleted Account
man -.- gonna cut my profits in half ;(
07:13
price never follows as much
OK
07:13
O K via @gif
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MF
07:14
Mr Flintstone
trying to see relevance to this conversation 😂
OK
07:15
I was looking for a different gif, but that one was funny
MF
07:16
Mr Flintstone
were you looking for the sheeeeeeeit guy
07:16
Deleted Account
is raising the block reward a possibility? i know it's been discussed and raged upon
OK
MF
07:16
Mr Flintstone
because that is what I am looking for
07:16
Deleted Account
hahaha that once is awesome
MF
07:16
Mr Flintstone
lmao
OK
07:16
O K via @gif
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MF
07:16
Mr Flintstone
Nice
OK
07:16
O K
I typed 5 'i's
MF
07:17
there is a shit show every time we talk about it
JS
07:20
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
Is there a chart of the planned difficulty increases?
IP
07:22
I P
In reply to this message
it is kind of possible because it is a governance variable but i doubt that it will be agreed upon by the community. if you open a governance oracle and bet a lot of money on raising block reward master holders will bet more on keeping it and you will loose your money
MF
07:23
difficulty respond to the amount of hash rate miners are throwing at the network which cannot be predicted
IP
07:23
I P
actually i don't really think that there is such a need to increase block reward. i would rather decrease block reward and decrease block time. so it is not 1 veo per 10 minutes but like 0.3 veo per 3 minutes
MF
07:24
Mr Flintstone
I’m pretty sure ppl that used to be pro block reward increase are now anti after getting their hands on some veo lol
IP
JS
07:24
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
Sorry misread. Someone said in 300 blocks 50% difficulty
IP
JS
07:25
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
In reply to this message
I thought it sounded weird since it’s usually based on miners
IP
07:25
I P
i think difficuly will double
MF
07:27
Mr Flintstone
no it isn’t an estimation
07:27
the diff increase is determined
07:27
already
07:32
u can get very close by doing
07:32
6.9 / (days between timestamp of 22500 and timestamp of 23500)
I
07:38
Iridescence
Can we vote multiply the supply of all current and future VEO by 1000? So then price will be "cheap", but nobody is negatively impacted
07:39
Though if I remember correctly, we wouldn't be able to do that directly in one go
n2
07:40
noob 2
What would the point in that be?
JS
IP
I
07:44
Iridescence
To decrease the price of 1 VEO by 1000x 😱
I
07:47
Iridescence
It was a half joke 😉
JS
I
07:48
Iridescence
The "can we vote" part - I think community voting is cool and should be done more
JS
L
08:10
You want to build a cool project and a decent community? Low liquidity and high prices are two decent ingredients in a strategy to attract longer term members/holders.
08:10
My two cents anyway!
TG
David invited David
IP
08:42
I P
In reply to this message
you don't need to scale anything on the blockchain, just make mVEO as default unit in light wallet
TG
08:44
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
I'm fine with that as long as it is the official unit. Although I think it's a relatively easy fix on the blockchain. But as long as everyone sees the price as 50 cents instead of 500 dollars it'll be much easier to attract investors regardless of the arbitrariness of it in reality.
A
09:57
Aries
Why would we want investors when it’s more developers that we need.
L
TG
10:14
We tend to get one with the other.
IP
10:24
I P
In reply to this message
both are fine, come on. More people, more awareness. I'm a miner myself but i want more miners to come (this means i get less coins though, but im not selfish). Ultimate goal is to build a big community.
MF
10:32
Mr Flintstone
btg hit by double spend?
10:32
not good
10:32
we need ASICs
L
10:34
Larry
I've seen a few arguments here for ASICs, even by Zack. Why not just change PoW algo to match BTC so that current ASICs can be used? Forgive me if this question is simplistic.
MF
10:34
Mr Flintstone
then it would be super easy to 51% attack us
10:36
for example, there are bitcoin miners that could double spend attack bch
10:36
keep in mind you don’t even need 51% to double spend
10:36
I think Luke Dashjr tweeted the other day that 30% gives you a 1/8 chance to pull off a double spend
10:37
I guess a double spend is less harmful than a 51% attack, but still it is not good
L
10:37
Larry
ohhhh
10:37
thank you!
10:38
so VEO and Zack need to control supply of ASICs?
10:38
and distribution?
MF
10:38
Mr Flintstone
maybe at first this is the best strategy
L
10:38
Larry
The SiaCoin route?
MF
10:39
Mr Flintstone
but hopefully this PoW is simple enough that asic manufacturers can’t get too much of an edge by putting money into r&d
10:39
like they can with the current bitcoin pow
10:39
but I am not an expert at these things so idk for sure
L
10:40
Larry
In reply to this message
meaning that creating an ASIC would be easy and therefore (hopefully) evenly distributed?
MF
10:40
Mr Flintstone
this is a difficult subject. like zack says, many ways amoveo can fail
L
10:41
Larry
i see. i see
IP
10:48
I P
In reply to this message
although Zack is cool i think people who are against asics and try develop trully asic resistant algo are not stupid either. Zack thinks it is bad that gpu miners can switch to other algos but i don't see such problem with eth for exaple, millions of gpu are stable mining eth., why not millions of gpus stable mine VEO.. Anyways, if we want asics we need to act fast
MF
10:48
Mr Flintstone
I think the point here is that unless you are the biggest gpu pow coin, you are much more susceptible to 51% attack /double spends
10:49
the switching thing is a different subject
10:50
if like 0.05% or less of the cards can 51% attack amoveo, do you feel very safe?
10:50
cuz I don’t
10:52
this is not an amoveo-specific problem obviously
IP
10:57
I P
well true but bitmain pretty much had cryptonight and equi asics for many months, i think he had close to 50% network hashrate=))
S
12:46
Sy
the only reason to sell an asic vs using it yourself is if your think you can make even more money selling since it will increase the diff too much - think about it ^^
J
12:52
Jim
In reply to this message
A less asic resistant algorithm makes selling it more likely, as you believe your competition will come to the game sooner than later
S
12:53
Sy
tbh if i were to develop an asic i would mine with it as long as possible and once the competition announces the development or the production, watch the hashrate real close and sell mine once there are jumps
12:53
you have to be smart tho :D dont quadrupple diff
J
12:53
Jim
Most coins with novel algorithms in existence for >1yr probably have FPGAs or (inefficient) ASICs running
S
12:54
Sy
if you roied already and your asic isnt as good as theirs, shit happens, keep em running and toss em later
12:54
if they are equal or better, double your money
12:54
a decent fpga dev can get a fpga running for this in a week tops
12:54
more like 1-2 days if he has done it before
J
12:55
Jim
It being sha256 certainly helps with development even though there are a lot of changes
S
12:55
Sy
afaik there are hardly any
12:55
it actually became even easier than btc sha
J
12:56
Jim
I meant in nonce selection, how client communicates with miners, the fact that we don’t have stratum yet, etc. I don’t do miner dev so I don’t know
S
13:01
Sy
the communication with the pool has always been a software problem, the asics kick in afterwards
13:02
so that part is customizeable
13:03
the older smaller asics werent standalone, you needed a rpi or some controller to talk to them via usb
T
13:27
Tina
hi guys I'm a amoveo node but my node's Description and Location is null. how setting of amoveo code config can fix its? anyone knows that?
13:27
13:27
this web's Description and Location
13:57
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Node description in veoscan.io is manually updated by me. Please tell me your node's address and description. As to geolocation, I updated right now.
T
14:37
Tina
In reply to this message
my node url: http://47.75.0.196:8080 description: Amoveo中国矿池 Location：Hong Kong China
14:37
thanks
14:41
my node url: http://47.75.0.196:8080 description: Amoveo中国矿池：amoveopool.io Location：Hong Kong China
T
17:14
Deleted Account
Btg doublespend
17:14
Lol
IP
17:41
I P
what/s happening? why do they dip btc so much? did btc also get doublespend or smth?
MS
17:47
Matvii Sivoraksha
Hey, Zack
Is there a possibility to create multisigs at the protocol level? Or it is necessary to write the contract (as at an ethereum)?
Is there a possibility to create multisigs at the protocol level? Or it is necessary to write the contract (as at an ethereum)?
S
IP
17:55
I P
In reply to this message
easier to change default units to milliVEO in light wallet interface
S
17:56
Sebsebzen
Also fine with me
17:57
At this stage it’s still easy to roll out change
Deleted joined group by link from Group
ŽM
18:15
Živojin Mirić
Group agreebot or do we have to do it on veo to be legit? :D
18:20
Deleted Account
mveo would be great
Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄 invited Harmony is lifer • $ONE 🦄
18:41
Deleted Account
raven is lifer he is the man
H
18:44
Nka on pla notif mo
18:44
😂
18:46
Deleted Account
hehe
MS
19:03
Matvii Sivoraksha
Where can I see the entire network hashrate?
MF
19:16
or, if you want to see trailing 20 block net hash
19:16
Hit update height
Z
20:11
Zack
In reply to this message
No multisig in amoveo.
We can make contracts that are a little similar in channels.
We can make contracts that are a little similar in channels.
Максим invited Максим
М
21:11
Максим
Hi how I can join to mining Amoveo?
MS
21:16
Matvii Sivoraksha
I often see Russian-speaking members of the community. how do you think it is worth creating a Russian-language channel on a discord, and chat in a telegram? What you think Zack ? I can take it
Z
21:17
Zack
россияне приветствуются в амовео
MS
21:20
so create a Russian-language channel?
Z
21:21
Zack
Українці також вітаються в амєєво
DS
MS
K
21:38
Korney
👍 for russian community
Z
21:42
Zack
в настоящее время в Discord есть русский канал.
DS
21:44
Denis Stepannikov
а можно ссылку на канал?
21:45
Deleted Account
How exactly is the PoW different than sha256
21:45
looking for technical specifics
MS
21:48
Matvii Sivoraksha
Trying to create Amoveo RU community:
https://t.me/joinchat/BcXkWw48ZIYwFoGaXriEpw
Попробуем создать русскоговорящее Amoveo community
https://t.me/joinchat/BcXkWw48ZIYwFoGaXriEpw
https://t.me/joinchat/BcXkWw48ZIYwFoGaXriEpw
Попробуем создать русскоговорящее Amoveo community
https://t.me/joinchat/BcXkWw48ZIYwFoGaXriEpw
21:51
Deleted Account
Creat a chinese telegram group plz.
IP
21:51
bitcoin is double sha256
21:51
Deleted Account
@zack
21:52
Deleted Account
looking for github link to code
21:53
found it
Z
MF
22:18
Mr Flintstone
also, anyone can create a telegram group
22:39
Deleted Account
is there something going on with the pool?
Im pretty sure it's on my end but still hmmm
Im pretty sure it's on my end but still hmmm
22:40
my hashrates are fluctuating like crazy and getting invalid shares due to low diff etc
MS
OK
22:57
Deleted Account
did you restart the nodes? got a bunch of 503's and now it looks back up again
OK
22:57
O K
Fixed a hung process, thanks for reporting
22:58
Deleted Account
u can donate 400 veo to me if u want
OK
22:58
O K
😆I wish I had that much veo
22:58
Deleted Account
im reporting you to the SEC
22:58
lol jk
OK
22:58
O K
😂
22:58
Deleted Account
im happy i was of any usefullnes
22:59
everything is back up on track! some other people also reporting stable hashrates now
OK
22:59
O K
I'm glad, thanks again
22:59
Deleted Account
❤️ you're the one making all this possible, you deserve lots of blow jobs
OK
23:00
O K
😂😂 I can take only less than 3% of that credit, but thank you
23:51
Deleted Account
Hi everybody~~
N
23:51
NM$L
hi
23:52
Deleted Account
i have a question
23:52
People transferred to me, but there was no transfer record in the block chain.
23:52
what's wrong with??
k
23:53
kdmlll
Are you looking on veoscan?
23:53
There is some delay
23:53
Deleted Account
yes
23:53
but already 3 hours long
k
23:53
kdmlll
You can try querying other nodes, such as zack's to check
OK
23:54
O K
explorer.html will tell you if the tx is in the txpool
23:54
Deleted Account
where is zack's node?
OK
23:54
O K
All the nodes are listed on the front page of veoscan
Z
23:55
http://159.89.106.253:8080/wallet.html and this is the wallet for my node.
23:57
Deleted Account
ok thanks~~~
25 May 2018
MF
00:58
Mr Flintstone
140 second blocks...
JS
00:58
Jon Snow
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
👆, 20.8 KB
Z
MF
01:04
Mr Flintstone
this might be contribution to tx difficulty
01:04
cuz so many orphans at these block times right
01:05
“Tx difficulty” as in like, hard to send transactions successfully
Z
01:06
Zack
Just now I was able to recreate the bug where orphans cause txs to get dropped. I am working on a solution now.
OK
Z
01:08
Zack
I am diagnosing now
01:09
I do a binary search for these sorts of things.
I start by printing out the flow of data half way through, and I see if it is correct at that point.
Then I know whether the bug is after or before.
I start by printing out the flow of data half way through, and I see if it is correct at that point.
Then I know whether the bug is after or before.
OK
01:09
O K
I was just curious
01:09
Cool
Z
01:27
Zack
The problem is that the top block is determined by headers, and we sync headers before blocks, and that blocks are looked up using the longest chain of headers.
Once the headers are synced, then it isn't possible to look up txs in the orphaned block any more.
Once the headers are synced, then it isn't possible to look up txs in the orphaned block any more.
OK
01:48
O K
In reply to this message
Is it worth looking into why there are so many orphans — or one thing at a time?
Z
01:51
Zack
yes, there shouldn't be so many orphans.
Bugs usually don't become obvious unless there are multiple of them compounding on each other like this.
We should solve all these problems to build a better Amoveo.
Bugs usually don't become obvious unless there are multiple of them compounding on each other like this.
We should solve all these problems to build a better Amoveo.
IP
MF
01:59
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
aren’t orphans expected at a block time this low? or is the orphan rate even exceeding expectation given these block times
OK
02:01
Sometimes the nodes don't* send headers to any other node
Z
02:02
Zack
orphans are more common at lower block time.
But there are projects which have decent orphan rates at sub 1-minute blocks.
So I think there is a lot of room for improvement.
But there are projects which have decent orphan rates at sub 1-minute blocks.
So I think there is a lot of room for improvement.
IP
OK
02:02
O K
In reply to this message
He found the root of the problem of not being able to look up txs in the orphaned block
02:03
But there is a seperate issue of why said block was orphaned
IP
02:03
I P
ah, i see, yes. i think the problem is too low block time now, more and more miners come
Z
02:04
Zack
I solved the problem where it was dropping txs.
Now I am running the full test suite before updating on github.
Now I am running the full test suite before updating on github.
OK
02:04
O K
It seems that any orphaned block where two nodes don't find a block at the same or almost-same time is not to be expected
Z
02:05
Zack
correct
OK
02:06
O K
Which happens often (often enough that if one watches the nodes carefully for a few hours one can witness these behaviours), when a pool finds a block but it doesn't propagate to the other nodes, and then it's overwritten
02:07
Or if it's a fast pool, sometimes it will find a second block as the rest of the network finds the last block again, but 10 minutes late, and then the 10 minutes late block is overwritten
02:08
Another symptom is that sometimes a node or a few nodes will trail exactly one block behind everyone
02:09
Usually they eventually stall out, but sometimes they can trail behind exactly 1 block for several blocks
Z
02:09
Zack
In reply to this message
This is concerning, I hadn't noticed.
I wonder what could cause this.
I wonder what could cause this.
OK
02:10
O K
Sometimes latency between the nodes is not great, one hypothesis could be that latency starts the cycle
02:10
How it continues, I don't know
02:11
That node is exhibiting that behaviour right now
02:11
But I've seen it happen in groups, and include mining pools in the confusion
02:12
I would bet that most of the rest of the stalled nodes over 20,000 trailed behind or stalled out for same reason — probably not all, but a lot
02:14
In reply to this message
This seems like it would be easy to simulate latency in the tests though
J
02:16
Jim
Haven’t seen any problems with my node, though it’s on a low latency network with plenty of CPU power. Could overloaded nodes be contributing to problems?
OK
02:17
O K
Sure, that's another possibility
02:18
My nodes also have plenty of power, I only know from watching blocks get found what happens to the network
IP
02:18
I P
my node is on a cheap vultr vps and rather slow on latency and cpu but it is not a mining node
J
02:18
Jim
In another project I’m advising (Bismuth), we talk about this problem as it pertains to masternodes - many masternodes on current coins are on woefully inadequate systems
IP
J
02:19
Jim
Yes, hence the problem
Z
02:23
Zack
In reply to this message
I pushed the fix. time to update.
Now when blocks are orphaned, we don't drop txs.
Now when blocks are orphaned, we don't drop txs.
JS
02:42
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
Is there a wallet download or is it just through the amoveopool2 site?
MF
02:43
Mr Flintstone
you can download the light wallet from zacks GitHub
JS
02:43
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
ok thanks
02:44
That link?
OK
02:47
O K
That's the one
02:47
You can also use any light wallet that you trust from the front page of veoscan.io
JS
02:49
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
awesome thanks
Z
03:25
Zack
It seems like we really need the ability to look up individual txs from history. so you can easily prove who paid who.
Here are some potential features I am thinking of including:
1) the ability to verify a merkle proof, so you have cryptographic proof that the tx was included in a block.
2) you can know the id for looking up a tx before the tx is included in a block.
(2) would require a hard update.
(1) seems necessary to me, even though this feature doesn't exist for most people using bitcoin.
Here are some potential features I am thinking of including:
1) the ability to verify a merkle proof, so you have cryptographic proof that the tx was included in a block.
2) you can know the id for looking up a tx before the tx is included in a block.
(2) would require a hard update.
(1) seems necessary to me, even though this feature doesn't exist for most people using bitcoin.
Tc
03:28
THE KING cavalc
amoveo2 and pwpool both have issues now?
J
03:32
Jackie
Yeah veopool seems to be down
MF
03:35
Mr Flintstone
is Batman ddosing veopool so it gets back below 51%? Lol
OK
03:35
O K
It's up for me, and also getting work on avp2
03:35
Maybe you guys are having a network issue
J
03:36
Jackie
Ap2 is working
03:37
No issue the past 24 h
J
Z
03:38
Zack
In reply to this message
Channel smart contracts don't reference unspent txs the way bitcoin smart contracts do.
Channel smart contracts don't even reference spent txs.
It is because smart contracts were hacked together on bitcoin as an afterthought, so they used tools for unintended purposes.
Channel smart contracts don't even reference spent txs.
It is because smart contracts were hacked together on bitcoin as an afterthought, so they used tools for unintended purposes.
03:41
who is running veopool.pw?
And who is running pool BEwcaw?
And who is running pool BEwcaw?
03:41
are they both Sy?
MF
04:54
Mr Flintstone
we can close the latest tx fee oracle right
04:54
it hasn’t been closed yet I don’t think
04:54
could b wrong
04:54
fees should drop 30% when we do that
04:54
oh wait nvm I’m conflating with the dev reward oracle. that can be closed now I thinks
04:55
we should be able to close the fee oracle soon tho
OK
04:55
O K
I'll have a go with closing the dev oracle
A_n_dr_e_w invited A_n_dr_e_w
OK
05:08
Are we sure anyone can close
05:10
Maybe I succeeded
05:11
Or maybe ... hmm
MF
05:11
Mr Flintstone
I’m pretty sure anyone can close an oracle
OK
05:13
O K
api:oracle_close(base64:decode("firE+J0/yBeBKiZ96oy66r662rvOcP9TwXSxfHAGoSQ=")).
05:13
See anything wrong with it?
MF
05:17
Mr Flintstone
I think you might need the <<>>?
05:17
and the normal OID format
05:17
OK
05:17
O K
99% sure that's what the decode does
05:20
Same error
05:20
api:oracle_close(<<126,42,196,248,157,63,200,23,129,42,38,125,234,140,186,234,190,186,218,187,206,112,255,83,193,116,177,124,112,6,161,36>>).
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Deleted invited EdoFazlinovic
MF
06:31
Mr Flintstone
new diff guys
06:31
19211
06:32
I was off by 100 :(
I
06:45
Iridescence
19k wow
L
06:48
Larry
Jeesh
06:50
So mining profits just took a 40% haircut?
OK
06:51
O K
Well the price has been up and up
IP
06:51
I P
In reply to this message
yes. But i see it as a good thing. The more PoW is put into the chain, the less rewards each individual miner gets the better
06:52
of course i get 40% less reward and i can't be happy about that for sure but if i put aside my personal happiness.. it looks very good
06:54
Deleted Account
Zack whats the difference between "spend, sign and broadcast" and "unsigned spend" on your light wallet?
Z
06:57
Zack
In reply to this message
It can't be closed yet.
The timer works a little differently if it is closing in bad_question state.
I think I did this to prevent a certain ddos attack on access to the oracles.
The timer works a little differently if it is closing in bad_question state.
I think I did this to prevent a certain ddos attack on access to the oracles.
IP
06:58
I P
so, how much money who put into that dev fee oracle?
06:58
any chance to see that?
Z
06:58
Zack
In reply to this message
unsigned is for printing the unsigned tx to the browser.
sign and broadcast is for publishing into the blockchain
sign and broadcast is for publishing into the blockchain
06:59
Deleted Account
Ty!
Z
06:59
Zack
In reply to this message
I know it is very little, since I was one of 2 participants.
I used 0.1 veo to change it and haven't bet since.
I used 0.1 veo to change it and haven't bet since.
06:59
Deleted Account
My def fee proposal did not pass?
06:59
Dev*
IP
07:00
Deleted Account
😅
М
07:00
Маfеt
please help. i started mining on 1080, set the address that was received at http://159.65.120.84:8080/wallet.html began mining with this address, but the balance for some reason does not change, but rather is not displayed at all. i need to wait and something is displayed when it changes? Mining literally 3 hours continues.
IP
07:00
I P
you or other people who want to reduce dev fee need to bet on that oracle
07:00
Deleted Account
How much time?
М
07:00
Маfеt
where to read, what is oracle, channels ?
07:01
Deleted Account
And there is some exponential increase in required bet size?
IP
07:01
I P
In reply to this message
nope, just bet whatever you think will win. i guess you wanted to bet on false, correct?
07:02
Deleted Account
Betting resets the timer?
М
IP
07:02
I P
In reply to this message
i don't think so but you need to bet on an outcome you desire for the oracle to work in your favour
Z
07:03
Zack
betting resets the timer, yes.
07:03
well, not always
М
07:03
Маfеt
a lot of documentation, but did not immediately find what i need
Z
07:03
Zack
it sometimes resets the timer
07:03
In reply to this message
http://159.65.120.84:8085/main.html
This is the page to see your mining progress for my pool.
This is the page to see your mining progress for my pool.
IP
07:03
I P
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/white_paper.md links are in the whitepaper i guess, it is also on github
М
07:04
Маfеt
thank you very much, then what i need
IP
07:05
I P
In reply to this message
i mean anyways, thank you for opening an oracle so that we could see it work but betting is the ultimate goal. no point to open an oracle if you or other people won't bet on na outcome you want from it
MF
Z
07:05
Deleted Account
I bet twice
Z
07:05
Zack
In reply to this message
only if you are adding a trade to the order book.
No limits if you are matching a trade.
No limits if you are matching a trade.
07:05
Deleted Account
First sccidentally increase
07:08
Ok i think i will lose more if i keep betting 🙈
OK
Z
07:10
Zack
In reply to this message
make sure to do api:oracle_unmatched(OID) and api:oracle_winnings(OID) after it is closed. you should be able to recover some of your veo.
07:11
Deleted Account
Create cost like 0.3 and 0.3 for bets 😂
Z
07:11
Zack
I think that Veoex made two contradictory bets that almost canceled out.
OK
07:13
Deleted Account
Yes its true
OK
07:14
O K
i am truley sry for your lots
Z
07:15
Zack
it is good. since they cancel out, Veoex will be able to recover almost all of his money
IP
Z
07:16
Zack
only if you are the first to bet, and you bet the right way
OK
Z
07:17
Zack
the person who makes the oracle is the first to read the oracle too. It isn't so hard to make the first bet.
07:17
Deleted Account
How much "no change" bet wins?
Z
07:17
Zack
A mining pool could be programmed to always replace the first bet with it's own.
But then you could trick the mining pool into always making losing bets, and profit.
But then you could trick the mining pool into always making losing bets, and profit.
IP
07:18
I P
so basically, we have now 10 min blocks, 1 veo per block + 0.2dev fee. if i want it to be 5 min 0.5 and 0.1 (scale), do i need to open 3 oracles?
Z
07:18
Zack
In reply to this message
in this case, no-change bets will probably win.
If you make a winning bet, and it gets matched in the order book, then your money doubles.
If you make a winning bet, and it gets matched in the order book, then your money doubles.
OK
AS
Z
07:19
Zack
dev fee and block reward can be both transformed in scale with 1 oracle. or you can change the dev reward alone with 1 oracle.
You need 2 oracles if you want to change them both and have them not stay in scale.
You need 2 oracles if you want to change them both and have them not stay in scale.
MF
07:20
Mr Flintstone
how would you call a function to scale multiple oracles at once by the same proportion?
IP
07:20
I P
In reply to this message
wow, cool, so i only need 2 oracles. So, ppl anyone thinks that we could reduce blocktime and scale blockreward down to match current emission rate?
MF
07:20
Mr Flintstone
or is this specific to dev reward and block reward
07:21
maybe I am misunderstandinf
07:22
Deleted Account
So my second bet matched the first?
Z
07:22
Zack
there is one governance variable that controls both dev reward and block reward.
There is a second governance variable that controls only the dev reward.
There is a second governance variable that controls only the dev reward.
AS
07:22
Deleted Account
And both of them wrong
OK
07:23
O K
In reply to this message
I'm not in until the syncing issues are fixed, faster blocks affect smaller pools disproportionately
IP
07:23
I P
In reply to this message
yep. sorry for you. looks like you need to bet mor money to false to actually get your funds back by winning
Z
07:23
Zack
oops. maybe some of your bets were left unmatched. so you can still get that money out.
Since my bet was so small, maybe it didn't completely match yours.
Since my bet was so small, maybe it didn't completely match yours.
IP
07:25
Deleted Account
Fuk i need some diagram for this 😅
AS
OK
IP
07:30
I P
damn this all kind of complicated
07:30
i would love to watch a tutorial
AS
07:35
Aizen Sou
We know it Zack but we still need a guide for newbies/ people who are not familiar with ur concept
Deleted invited Deleted Account
IP
07:50
I P
BC80oG/EAXojuLCjIjQmIQgTv9wHscgCccEy4q7R2Vwak2iPbrTb1htgVOU+NjChxxmOeNiUJMxURPqUEWZ2lzc= what pool is that?
AS
07:50
Aizen Sou
Chinese
IP
07:51
I P
well, it looks terrible because it is over 50% now
G
07:52
Gonzalo
😁
IP
07:56
I P
In reply to this message
unless we start any kind of promotion for miners we risk them having like 70% of hashrate on that pool easy
08:01
actually, in last 23 blocks (after diff adjustment) they already had like 16 which accounts for 70%...
Z
g
08:07
goons
I thought bbcn was Big Black Chinese Nurses
IP
08:30
I P
you don't want to know what BBC means=))
B
08:54
Ben
Can we bet on bets without needing an oracle for the bet placed on the outcome of a bet?
08:54
For example if I want to bet that three bets will all result in true
08:55
And initiate a bet for that ?
OK
08:55
O K
🙃
MF
08:58
Mr Flintstone
I think maybe
08:58
you can bet on the price of a binary option
08:58
in the lightning network
08:59
without actually having to have the oracle resolved?
08:59
maybe not. Zack
Z
09:03
Zack
In reply to this message
the oracles are for reporting on the outcome of events after they have occured.
If you want to bet on whether an event will occur in the future, you should use a market. This is a protocol implemented in the turing complete state channels.
The state channels are aware of the outcomes of all the oracles, so you can write a program that depends on 3 oracles yes.
If you want to bet on whether an event will occur in the future, you should use a market. This is a protocol implemented in the turing complete state channels.
The state channels are aware of the outcomes of all the oracles, so you can write a program that depends on 3 oracles yes.
Deleted invited Deleted Account
IP
09:27
I P
In reply to this message
wow, how cool is that " you can write a program that depends on 3 oracles yes." Very cool
MF
10:05
Mr Flintstone
this function lets you build scalar markets !
IP
10:19
I P
In reply to this message
man i'm lost, this tech is too advanced for a non-blockchain fortran guy
Z
10:24
Zack
In reply to this message
if you like fortran, then maybe you can handle chalang. the language used for making amoveo smart contracts: https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/chalang
10:25
I want to make the game called Goofspiel into an Amoveo smart contract.
10:25
It is uniquely capable compared to other games, because Goofspiel is resistant to people making AI to always win.
10:25
It would be a fun way to gamble veo
MF
10:26
Mr Flintstone
@kitty123 what I mean about scalar markets is the following: imagine that we want to make a bet where I pay you the percent change of the sp500. This means that if the percent change is negative, you pay me
IP
10:26
I P
wow, cool, thx i will check once i get some sleep after work=)) i don't really like fortran but i kind of had to learn it
Z
10:26
Zack
I think people would like it more than satoshi dice.
OK
10:26
O K
is the code for satoshi dice available somewhere?
OK
10:27
O K
Sweet, thanks IP
IP
10:31
I P
actually would be cool if we could make a contest to write smth for amoveo, i mean like ui or some cool smart contracts to incentivize devs except Zack. We could all donate some veo for that cause so that prizes are good.
Z
10:44
Zack
We should write a dominant assurance contract in chalang. I think it is only a small modification on our current contract.
Paul Sztorc gives some suggestions on truthcoin.info for how to convert a market into a dominant assurance contract.
Paul Sztorc gives some suggestions on truthcoin.info for how to convert a market into a dominant assurance contract.
IP
11:12
I P
11:12
does that augur actually work now?
MF
11:18
Mr Flintstone
augur isn’t going to be fully functional for a long time
11:18
iirc even their mainnet v1 will have a lot of training wheels
11:18
that is going live in july?
IP
Z
11:32
Zack
Im so glad I didn't sign any intellectual property over to Augur.
Matt and Joey would be having a law suit over it.
Matt and Joey would be having a law suit over it.
11:37
11:37
It looks like most visitors of the github page are coming from google search, then amoveopool2 is 2nd most common.
11:38
number 3 is bitcointalk
This is a big surprise for me, I thought twitter was bringing in more people, but bitcoin talk is like 4x more important.
This is a big surprise for me, I thought twitter was bringing in more people, but bitcoin talk is like 4x more important.
11:48
I have been putting almost no effort into Reddit, but it is more popular than twitter too.
11:49
I think I should repost lots of stuff from twitter to reddit.
IP
11:56
I P
there is a lot of ppl on btctalk. It would be great to post some updates there from time to time. Well, unfortunately altcoin forum is kind of a garbage can there=( but nothing we can do about it, we can't fix those people, only hope that there are good ones out there too
MF
12:04
Mr Flintstone
yeah, these numbers are quite surprising
12:05
I would have bet that twitter was bringing in more than that
12:05
Although people may see it on twitter then hit up google
Z
next steper joined group by link from Group
Deleted invited Deleted Account
12:33
Deleted Account
Ok, how do I buy this?
12:34
Deleted Account
discord
k
12:34
kdmlll
Discord
12:35
Deleted Account
Cheers
12:35
Deleted Account
🥃
12:46
Deleted Account
Ok attempting to buy some in the trade section now
12:47
trying to mine now too
J
12:54
Jim
Re btctalk: there is a right (development and technical discussions) and wrong (bounty campaign) way to use it. Most of the most amazing things such as lightning, ring signatures, bulletproofs, etc have come from the first forum. Most of it is pure garbage, however 😅
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Deleted invited Deleted Account
T
15:35
Tina
hi guys I plan build a amoveo pool, how count the miner's hashrate?
LJ
15:37
Long John
Does Amoveo using Bitcoins lightning network? I thought it was all done on Amoveo's blockchain
IP
LJ
15:41
Long John
Using its own state channels?
IP
15:43
I P
In reply to this message
yes. please referr to https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/white_paper.md
15:44
you can choose a node, open state channel and use it
15:45
you can have markets in these channels if i'm not mistaken
Daniel joined group by link from Group
1van joined group by link from Group
1
15:57
1van
What's the market cap of this?
15:57
How many coins are there /will there ever be?
IP
15:58
you will get 21mln coins in 300 years
G
15:58
Gonzalo
more or less, yes
1
15:58
1van
And what's the current going rate of coins
15:58
$1k?
15:58
$500?
G
1
15:59
1van
How many currently sorry, what's the blockheiight?
G
IP
16:00
I P
In reply to this message
i guess it is around 400-600 or so. block height is the number of blocks currently mined. current supply is 24000
G
16:01
Gonzalo
Block 24,111; Market cap 30393.04944507 VEO
IP
S
16:36
Sy
I stopped the veopool.pw webserver that handles the frontend because someone is overloading the pool this way - mining is unaffected
DS
16:37
Denis Stepannikov
18.05.2018 TH per Block: 12631.189
25.05.2018 TH per Block: 19210.667
34% increase difficulty for per week
136% per month
Considering that interest in the coin is growing, there may be an increase in complexity and more.
for example the coin now costs $ 420 (yesterday sold), then a month later it should cost:
420 * 2 + 420 * 0.36 = 991 $
Well, this is to keep yesterday's rate of return
are my calculations correct?
25.05.2018 TH per Block: 19210.667
34% increase difficulty for per week
136% per month
Considering that interest in the coin is growing, there may be an increase in complexity and more.
for example the coin now costs $ 420 (yesterday sold), then a month later it should cost:
420 * 2 + 420 * 0.36 = 991 $
Well, this is to keep yesterday's rate of return
are my calculations correct?
S
16:39
Sy
current price should be closer to 500
16:39
and a month ago it was 100-150
HN
17:04
And your front end website down
17:05
We are going to 90% of the whole hashrate
S
17:10
Sy
no, we are pretty stable
P
17:21
Pan
In reply to this message
Hello OK,
When will you release amoveopool2.com with worker ID well done?
When will you release amoveopool2.com with worker ID well done?
CRHoss invited CRHoss
t
17:43
toy
how to build mining pool
17:43
I encountered this error while building
17:43
Deleted invited Deleted Account
HN
18:28
H N
hmm
18:28
the block chain is stuck
K
18:28
Kale
hi
18:28
bro
18:29
china pool down now
18:29
sy down
18:29
ap2 down
18:29
blockchain can't sync
18:32
another unpaid ex employee
HN
18:47
H N
Blockchain stuck
HJ invited HJ
HN
19:08
H N
Its normal now
MF
19:36
Mr Flintstone
how long has this dos been going on for?
Z
19:48
Zack
In reply to this message
All lightning networks are connected. You can make a payment that starts on one blockchain, and finishes on a different blockchain.
19:50
In reply to this message
Maybe you could raise your pool fee until you don't have 50% hashrate any more.
HN
19:52
may be you should working on your pool front end first zack
20:01
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
I have pool problem too, for like 15 miniutes alll my miner went to sleep, I have no idea if I was attacked or just because my poor code skills.
20:01
I rolled back the code to no workid version to make sure everything is fine
20:04
BTW after a days running, the ways I was used to estimate user hashrate worked not very well, the number jumps up and down, so I rewrote a new version :https://bitbucket.org/scenix007/amoveo-mining-pool/src/master/apps/amoveo_mining_pool/src/workers.erl
Serhii Pashchenko invited Serhii Pashchenko
21:17
Deleted Account
We do something similar for http://amoveo.noncense.tech, for individual miner hashrate we look at the last 30 shares (~30 sec with our share diff), we sum those shares' hashes and divide by the time differance between the last and the first share of those 30
Z
23:00
Zack
@Simon3456 I updated the open source mining pool to prevent the kind of DDOS attack that is happening.
S
23:17
Sy
you are catching faulty submits...i dont have a problem with that
23:17
i get SYN flodded, classic ddos
Z
23:22
Zack
23:24
Should we change the api to use UDP instead of HTTP?
S
23:35
Sy
thats one thought tbh
23:35
pools would be faster aswell
Hawk invited Hawk
Z
23:58
Zack
When Amoveo runs smoothly, few people take interest.
When we are under attack, everyone becomes interested.
Maybe someone is attacking Amoveo to create drama to make Amoveo more popular.
When we are under attack, everyone becomes interested.
Maybe someone is attacking Amoveo to create drama to make Amoveo more popular.
MF
23:59
Mr Flintstone
thinking outside the box
23:59
lol
[
MF
23:59
Mr Flintstone
at any rate I think people attacking amoveo is generally good
26 May 2018
g
OK
00:03
O K
In reply to this message
People have been taking plenty of interest 😂 Complaints from miners is not "interest"
Z
00:05
Zack
Twitter has a lot more traffic than usual.
And a blockchain website's reporter is asking me questions to write an article about Amoveo.
And a blockchain website's reporter is asking me questions to write an article about Amoveo.
OK
00:05
O K
Well then
00:05
Animation
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
364.1 KB
MF
00:08
Mr Flintstone
one of the great news clips of our era
OK
00:08
O K
Everybody saw the leprechaun
OK
00:09
O K via @gif
Animation
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
408.8 KB
I
00:13
Iridescence
In reply to this message
Probably a large miner that wants to reduce diff and mine more Amoveo for itself.
OK
00:13
O K
Is veoscan down too
Z
00:15
Zack
In reply to this message
But the block-time doesn't start getting measured for difficulty adjustment until 24500.
Attacking us now doesn't change the difficulty at all.
Attacking us now doesn't change the difficulty at all.
OK
00:16
O K
If they are attacking veoscan, then I am much more worried
00:17
block height is 24159 I believe
MF
00:18
Mr Flintstone
man, I wonder who could possibly want amoveo to fail
Deleted invited Deleted Account
MF
00:18
Mr Flintstone
if veoscan is attacked too it just makes me more optimistic about amoveo. someone is seriously threatened
OK
00:19
O K
😘
K
00:19
Kale
maybe we should make more than one explorer
00:19
if one down,others working
Z
00:20
In reply to this message
Maybe one of our many competitors: https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/progress_reports/May_2018.md
I
00:20
Iridescence
In reply to this message
Yes, but diff adjustment tries to take into account the blocks over the adjustment period. Maybe they are planning a long ddos
MF
00:20
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
this is sarcasm btw. I think we all know who wants amoveo to fail the most
Z
00:21
Zack
Worth noting that no one from Aeternity has contacted me at all since I launched Amoveo.
A few hours before this attack started, Emin Mahrt (upper level manager who was almost made CEO of Aeternity at one point) sent me a message.
A few hours before this attack started, Emin Mahrt (upper level manager who was almost made CEO of Aeternity at one point) sent me a message.
MF
00:22
Mr Flintstone
what was it
00:23
if you would be so inclined to share
Z
00:30
Zack
Just a friendly message.
"Hello Zack, how are you. I often talk to people about you, your project and also follow Amoveo. I hope you're doing fine and you're happy wherever you are right now."
If people around him were talking about me/Amoveo, then it increases the odds he would send a message like this.
"Hello Zack, how are you. I often talk to people about you, your project and also follow Amoveo. I hope you're doing fine and you're happy wherever you are right now."
If people around him were talking about me/Amoveo, then it increases the odds he would send a message like this.
OK
00:31
O K
That sounds well intentioned, I doubt it's to shield any ill behaviour, but you probably know him well
Z
00:33
Zack
14 weeks with no contact.
I don't know him well.
I don't know him well.
I
00:34
Iridescence
No point seeing ghosts in shadows
OK
I
00:34
Iridescence
Maybe he wants you to help with Aeternity 🙈
K
00:35
Kale
maybe he want to u back to ae
OK
00:36
O K
I would think more likely just trying to maintain a useful network
K
00:37
Kale
why this attacker have so much power
00:37
attack all of us
00:38
why he attack veoscan?
00:38
Deleted Account
veoscan is now back
I
00:38
Iridescence
FUD to get cheap VEO?
00:38
Deleted Account
It's unclear whether it's attacked or not.
00:39
Server shut down due to heavy traffic. I'll look into logs from now.
J
00:39
Jim
Veoscan isn’t on Cloudflare?
Z
J
00:42
Jim
Predicted diff has dropped a lot. Perhaps attacker is trying to control how fast diff grows?
OK
J
00:43
Jim
Hm
Z
00:47
Zack
Maybe we just need to rent better hardware with bigger bandwidth limits
Daniel invited Daniel
00:56
Deleted Account
It looks like veoscan was not attacked. I'll consider upgrading server.
Z
01:00
Zack
Maybe you can make more pages static?
B
01:05
Branc
hej guys
01:05
01:05
any ideas?
Joshua invited Joshua
Z
01:07
Zack
Someone spammed my mining pool with about 100 mb in about 4 minutes about 2 hours ago.
It didn't cause any problems for the mining pool, so maybe they gave up and decided not to attack me.
It didn't cause any problems for the mining pool, so maybe they gave up and decided not to attack me.
Deleted invited Deleted Account
K
01:16
Kale
use aliyun's black hole service
01:16
anti ddos
01:16
expensive but useful
g
01:24
goons
In reply to this message
So if the attacker shut down most of the pools w ddos, wouldn’t he just find all the blocks ? Seems motive enough
01:26
This is assuming he also controls a fair amount of hash
[
01:27
[Riki]
Maybe he got an asic too 🤑
01:47
Deleted Account
Zack i have tried to set up my own pool. Everything seems ok but i have solution submision error 500. do you know what could be the problem?
01:47
sorry, maybe this is more a miner problem, i will ask @Simon3456
Z
01:49
Zack
I am not sure. some miners make that message even when it is working correctly.
Are you being paid shares?
Are you being paid shares?
01:51
Deleted Account
is somthing weird i have started 15 minitus ago and it shows in my main.html i have 18434 shares and increasing but 0 veo (i have config payouts with 0,1 veo) i dont know if it is ok
01:52
my miners shows no one shares...
Z
01:55
Zack
Right.
In the beginning 1 account has all the shares. This way you don't over-reward miners of the first few blocks.
In the beginning 1 account has all the shares. This way you don't over-reward miners of the first few blocks.
JS
01:57
Jake Shepherd 🏔🐐
This prob doesnt help but my miner isnt working - no connection
01:58
Deleted Account
thanks @zack. i will wait for a bit to see if i get shares
0
02:01
0xminion
In reply to this message
https://t.co/j9YrG7qLBe zack, try have a look on this, advanced ddos protection, just saw it on my twitter feed
MF
02:43
Mr Flintstone
I wonder how much it costs to do an attack like this
Z
03:20
Zack
It seems like my pool and Aaron's China pool are the only pools being spared from the attack.
We are also the only ones using open source software.
Maybe the attacker hates closed source pools?
Maybe our open source software is harder to attack?
We are also the only ones using open source software.
Maybe the attacker hates closed source pools?
Maybe our open source software is harder to attack?
03:26
@Simon3456 @potat_o
Could you tell me more about your http servers?
Maybe they are vulnerable to SYN floods in a way that cowboy is not.
Could you tell me more about your http servers?
Maybe they are vulnerable to SYN floods in a way that cowboy is not.
03:30
Deleted Account
How do i check my hash on your pool zack :)
OK
03:40
O K
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
🔥, 48.1 KB
Z
S
03:44
Sy
still, its a PROTOCOL vulnerbility, tcp - not the server
Z
03:45
Zack
OK PMed me about it. I guess he is embarrassed or something.
03:45
tcp is just a library right?
03:45
It can be implemented in different ways
03:45
lighttpd is single threaded, so I think it's TCP works differently
OK
03:46
O K
In reply to this message
"Lol, I guess he is embarassed to reveal his weaknesses publicly"
- Zack Tsu
The Art of Cyber War
- Zack Tsu
The Art of Cyber War
Z
03:47
Zack
lol
S
Z
03:49
Zack
The whole of Amoveo is a protocol, and it can be implemented in different ways
03:51
I read the wikipedia about SYN flood, and they seem to suggest different ways of implementing the TCP protocol to avoid this problem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SYN_flood
For example, they suggest re-using the oldest half-open tcp.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SYN_flood
For example, they suggest re-using the oldest half-open tcp.
03:52
TCP is like a language. There are many ways to write a program that can produce valid TCP.
Z
03:55
Zack
You can write a TCP library in erlang using sockets: https://github.com/yuce/teacup
Which is what this project is.
Which is what this project is.
03:59
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4987
This document describing SYN flood solutions talks about tradeoffs in the different ways that you can implement TCP.
This document describing SYN flood solutions talks about tradeoffs in the different ways that you can implement TCP.
S
04:01
Sy
have fun doing that
Z
04:06
Zack
It seems likely that you and OK were using bad http servers, and the attacker was kind enough to point it out for us.
S
04:07
Sy
lol
04:07
i could use apache and the same would still happen
04:07
you are getting big now, just wait for the attack
04:08
apache, nginix and iis are the 3 most used webservers in the world
04:09
oh and about that "my servers bandwith is high enough"
Sum 835.978.000 packets/300s (2.786.593 packets/s), 5.553 flows/300s (18 flows/s), 29,138 GByte/300s (795 MBit/s)
Sum 835.978.000 packets/300s (2.786.593 packets/s), 5.553 flows/300s (18 flows/s), 29,138 GByte/300s (795 MBit/s)
04:09
and that was a small ddos tbh
Z
04:09
Zack
795 mbit/s!! wow that is a lot of data
S
04:09
Sy
i had 5 or 6 of these
04:10
today :)
OK
04:10
O K
I guess the attacker is trying to show us that data is really important
Z
04:10
Zack
data is important? I don't get it
OK
04:10
O K
I mean look
04:10
835.978.000 packets,
04:10
there are 8 sides to an octagon
04:10
an octagon is the name of a shape
04:11
3 + 5 is 8
04:11
that's 88
04:11
it's racist symbolism
04:11
now 9+7+8
04:11
is 24
04:11
24 divided by 5 is almost 5
04:11
but when you add three
04:11
( 0 0 0 )- three zeroes
04:11
that's like a triangle
04:12
So you have an eye, a pentagon, and a triangle
04:12
illuminati confirmed
Z
04:12
Zack
so that is why the data is important
OK
04:12
O K
It makes sense
PL
04:16
Paww Lee
Guys, how much should a 50MH rig mine daily?
Z
04:22
Zack
20 terahashes per block. so it would take you about 4000 000 seconds to find 1 veo.
1 day is only about 80 000 seconds.
So like 0.02 veo per day
1 day is only about 80 000 seconds.
So like 0.02 veo per day
04:23
Deleted Account
have any new blocks been found lately? veoscan.io still showing last block an hour ago
04:24
assume related to the attack
Z
04:26
Zack
It looks like China pool is out of sync. So I guess I am the only pool left
Z
04:28
Zack
A lot of nodes have fallen out of sync.
Maybe the attacker's strategy is more sophisticated than we had thoughtt.
Maybe the attacker's strategy is more sophisticated than we had thoughtt.
S
04:28
Sy
they all stopped at the same tho
04:28
Deleted Account
Thought he asked with 50GH/s
S
04:31
Sy
sync:start().
<0.4105.104>
<0.4105.104>
04:31
why doesnt it start?
Z
04:32
Zack
It is because it trie syncing with someone else who is frozen/out of sync.
04:32
I restarted my node without deleting the database, and did
sync:start(). like 10 times. now it is synced up.
04:33
Deleted Account
Where do i see my shares Zack?
Z
04:37
Deleted Account
Outstanding shares?
04:38
Or are these the overall shares?
04:38
Of your pool
04:40
Lookup pubkey doesnt do anything
04:41
Lookup Account *
Z
04:47
Zack
you need to use your pubkey to look up your balance
HN
Z
04:48
Zack
approximately
HN
04:49
H N
Nice
Z
04:49
Zack
since we have 28000 shares now, it is more like 2900 shares per veo
HN
04:49
H N
Ok
PL
04:53
Paww Lee
In reply to this message
Thanks. Looks like my pool has been DDOSed...'cause i've been mining just a small fraction of that...
IP
05:02
I P
getting getwork exception when trying to use Zack's pool with veominer 1.5
05:07
Zack is your pool working right now?
Z
05:08
Zack
I am resyncing my node, it seemed like the database got corrupted.
IP
05:10
I P
i think we need more nodes on the network so that it gets expensive to try to attack the network
05:16
Deleted Account
Zack, does your pool work with veominer 2.1 on linux.. Getting 500 error
IP
05:17
Deleted Account
On Windows its showing hashrate right now on my console/terminal
05:17
A na linux nihuja
Z
05:18
Zack
I am resyncing will be back shortly.
http://159.65.120.84:8080/explorer.html
you can watch me syncing blocks here
http://159.65.120.84:8080/explorer.html
you can watch me syncing blocks here
OK
05:18
O K
Set up your twitch so we can /really/ watch you sync blocks
05:19
Deleted Account
Haha
IP
05:20
I P
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
😥, 9.1 KB
Z
IP
05:21
I P
any pool operational right now btw?
Z
05:22
Zack
I guess I will launch a second mining pool.
05:22
so if one goes out, then we wont be without
R
05:22
Ryan
I can help launch one
OK
05:23
O K
I'm launching one that's better shielded to attack right now
05:23
It's just Zack's pool though as a temporary solution
05:23
Until we can get amoveopool moved
Z
05:24
mining pool #2
05:26
Deleted Account
Synced?
IP
05:27
Deleted Account
I need a tool where i can configure all my miners at once xD
OK
05:28
If I want to download 50 or 100 blocks in a batch
05:28
What would I change? I changed a couple things in the config tmpl file but it didn't make a difference
05:29
At a certain point it might be worthwhile to have a bootstrap file
Z
05:29
Zack
@potat_o Transfering of blocks is already happening concurrently, it is not the bottleneck. making it faster wont make a difference.
05:30
a bootstrap file is a good strategy. I was thinking of doing that for the light node
05:30
for the light node it is just a single header hard-coded
05:30
9000 more blocks till synced.
05:34
some solo miner mined a block
HN
05:35
H N
Hwo do you solo mined it?
05:35
Is that even possible
Z
05:36
Zack
I don't know. they haven't shared the block, and I cannot connect.
05:36
they aren't serving an explorer.html
OK
05:41
O K
Yup
05:41
Can't get it either
05:42
Deleted Account
Synced!
HN
05:44
H N
What pool guyss
05:44
Pleaaee
I
Z
05:46
Zack
I managed to download the header from that weird node, but I can't get it's block
OK
05:47
O K
same
05:47
Will we overwrite the header without the block if we have more hashpower combined?
Z
05:47
Zack
maybe it has a corrupted database, and it built an invalid block that looks valid for it's broken database
05:47
yes, we will just make a longer chain and ignore the weird block.
IP
05:49
I P
In reply to this message
we need to mine for that to happen. pool 1 node synced but still getwork exception in miners
V
05:49
Vitaliy
scam
Z
05:50
Zack
the pool is having trouble because so many people use WorkerIDs.
05:50
Every time someone uses a WorkerID, it wastes a lot of the pools time
OK
05:52
O K
Zack, how does your pool handle workerIDs
05:52
Can we just parse from B to = to save resources, or is that worse
05:54
Zack the file handler blocks access to main.html ?
Z
05:54
Zack
yes, that would save resources. I should do an update.
05:54
OK
05:55
O K
I'm talking about that page on a fresh node with your mining pool
Z
05:55
Zack
the mining pool uses 8085
VV
05:56
Vladimir Vorkachev
Do we have a risk to be 51% attacked now with double spending in particular?
OK
[
IP
OK
06:00
Working on it..
06:05
Zack can I mine on port 8080 instead with your pool?
06:05
(with your software)
06:05
Is that config/sys.config?
Z
06:06
Zack
the full node supports mining, but it is not recommended. you can only connect 1 miner at a time. better to use a mining pool.
OK
06:06
O K
I'm setting up your mining pool software
06:06
I want to use port 8080 instead of port 8085
Z
06:06
Zack
the pools config file is somewhere different
OK
06:06
O K
Is that possible?
Z
06:07
Zack
If you are already running a full node on 8080, it wont work
06:07
they need to be different
OK
06:07
O K
How about 80
Z
06:07
Zack
if you change the full node to something else, then 8080 would be available
OK
06:07
O K
80 would probably be fine,
06:07
I'll leave the node alone
Z
06:07
Zack
the pools config is with the software in config.erl
OK
06:07
O K
not the sys.config that I see a
{port, 8085}
Z
06:08
Zack
I haven't tested changing the port. hopefully I didn't hard-code it anywhere else
06:08
oh, maybe it is in the sys.config then
OK
06:08
O K
Not sure if that's the only instance
Z
06:08
Zack
grep says there are no more 8085s
OK
06:09
O K
Let's see what happens, 80 now
06:09
How do I make file handler happy now
06:09
aha