Amoveo ♥🧿
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11 May 2018
MH
00:38
Mandel Hoff
World Cup 2018 about 34 days away. Anyone can start a market and take bets.
IP
00:41
I P
btw anyone tested veominer 1.4 or 1.5 for safety use? i mean keylogger/trojan/backdoor etc
Cantu invited Cantu
M
01:47
Mike
Zack have you clicked through to the telegram the spammers are linking in Amoveo 1 group? It’s really odd
OK
01:47
O K
Can someone pm me the old group link?
01:48
I'm very curious
M
OK
01:48
O K
Thank you
MF
02:07
Mr Flintstone
mr quick seller back at it
Deleted joined group by link from Group
C
A
02:09
Deleted Account
Can we already buy the coin
C
02:09
Chris 🍞
that sucks, paying rent =(
MF
02:09
Mr Flintstone
keep the hands strong boys
A
C
02:10
Chris 🍞
i’m interested in buying more, but i don’t like peer2peer
02:10
so i’ll keep mining till theres a decent exchange to buy from.
A
IP
02:14
I P
In reply to this message
you post this exact thing each day. people don't pay rent each day
Kirill zp invited Kirill zp
A
C
IP
02:33
I P
guys, trade in discord, Zack and other members told it many times
C
02:34
Chris 🍞
i wasn’t aware, joined today. i’m sorry =)
02:46
Deleted Account
Is IT easy to mine?
S
02:48
Sy
if you are on linux, yes
C
03:46
Chris 🍞
for windows also isn’t hard 😉
Srle joined group by link from Group
TG
04:32
Toby Ganger
If there is enough community pressure to redenominate the currency by a factor of 1000 at the very least least will Zack consider doing it? This is not an irrelevant factor in wider adoption. In fact it is a rather critical and human facing problem that if it is not fixed now will be almost impossible to fix later. And no, leaving it to wallets and exchanges to come to a uniform system is not the solution.
04:33
Pretty soon it'll be too late and this great and useful tech will not be adopted because other inferior tech is more human facing.
MF
04:36
Mr Flintstone
how does zack change where the decimal is placed? he doesn’t control that
04:37
I guess in theory the light wallet / node js can be changed
04:44
my guess is that first exchange lists as MVEO
TG
04:44
Toby Ganger
That should be done then at a bare minimum. And the public word needs to be minimum 2.5 million supply. Probably 25 or 250 million would be better. So anyone finding this coin can easily find out current supply is 27 million. So exchanges can list units uniformly. So coinmarketcap lists things in such a manner that the price is 4 cents or 40 cents and not 400 dollars
MF
JS
IP
04:52
I P
In reply to this message
we discussed it, no need to change anything in blockchain, just wallet default units to mVEO and work is done
TG
04:52
Toby Ganger
my guess from experience is that this gets confusing to most... I remember seeing a ton of confusion with Byteball and its listing as GB but the wallet has bytes
04:54
In reply to this message
so the public will see supply at 27 million then? and price at 40 cents? that is workable
04:54
as long as the public facing supply is listed in MVEOs and there is no mixed signals or confusion
04:55
I recommend moving it by 10,000 not 1,000
04:56
1,000 is bare minimum to avoid the human unit bias...but 10,000 would put it in the ideal 250 million range...puts current price around 4 cents
04:56
this is what people want...as irrelevant as it is to overall supply it makes a massive difference in perception
04:57
will light node be updated?
04:57
so that when we check balance we will see 1,000 or 10,000 instead of 1?
IP
OK
04:58
O K
Why doesn't someone modify the javascript to add a 'unit' button for mveo and veo and submit a PR on github?
IP
05:00
I P
In reply to this message
well that's a good idea. the thing is that Toby wants so that the whole community switch to mveo
05:00
actually i think that it is a good idea
OK
05:00
O K
The github is open source, anyone can submit a PR
TG
05:01
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
It's not that i want the whole community to switch to anything specific..I just think there needs to be uniformity
05:01
at this stage so everyone understands what is what
05:02
there needs to be one publically known supply
OK
Deleted invited Deleted Account
TG
05:02
Toby Ganger
right now the publically known supply is around 25k-28k VEO
IP
TG
05:02
Toby Ganger
and this is a HUGE problem when it comes to getting real traction with adoption
ŽM
05:03
Živojin Mirić
maybe a vote again?
05:03
on mVEO vs VEO
05:03
let the community decide if it's open source and not relevant to amoveo itself
05:03
make mVEO VEO
OK
05:04
O K
Look at Maker
ŽM
05:04
Živojin Mirić
better for adoption
TG
OK
05:04
O K
High prices and low market cap are not going to stop a great coin from getting traction
ŽM
05:04
Živojin Mirić
yeah it won't stop
TG
05:04
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
there is quite a substantial amount of evidence demonstrating otherwise
ŽM
05:04
Živojin Mirić
but it would be even better with "cheaper" coin
TG
05:04
Toby Ganger
it is a major obstacle
ŽM
05:05
Živojin Mirić
you know how common people think in these markets
TG
05:05
Toby Ganger
people have unit bias
IP
05:05
I P
well it is easier to denominate value in mVEO for sure.
TG
05:05
Toby Ganger
this is a fact
05:05
the most common phrase I hear from new investors is "Bitcoin is too expensive...I'm gonna get this Ripple or Cardano because it's cheaper"
OK
05:05
O K
I agree with you Toby, to an extent, I think you speak freom experience
ŽM
OK
05:06
O K
In reply to this message
But these are exactly the type of people we aren't interested in attracting
ŽM
05:06
Živojin Mirić
why?
TG
05:06
Toby Ganger
people don't like holding .00073 of an asset
OK
05:07
If you make real value, it will add real value
TG
05:07
Toby Ganger
all growth is organic
05:08
unless it's with government subsidies
05:08
it will inevitably have pumps and dumps
05:08
and through this process it grows and strengthens
OK
05:08
O K
People buying ripple at $3.00 because bitcoin mooned and ripple is cheap ... and then selling at $1.80 and "crypto is a scam," it's not healthy
05:08
Buying ripple at all is not healthy, but that's another topic
TG
05:08
Toby Ganger
that's normal market activity and trying to control that is an ENORMOUS mistake
ŽM
05:09
Živojin Mirić
well ripple is not unhealthy beacuse of cheap price per coin
OK
ŽM
05:09
Živojin Mirić
and VEO will still be healthy with smaller denomination
TG
05:10
Toby Ganger
I'm not trying to control market forces...I'm trying to have better appeal....there's a difference for example between marketing/branding and government regulation/subsidies
OK
05:10
O K
No one mentioned the government
TG
05:10
Toby Ganger
one is putting your best face forward by seeing how the market shops....the other is trying to control how others spend their money
OK
05:11
O K
I am not a pro-government person, you're preaching to the choir on that issue
TG
05:11
Toby Ganger
you're talking about it being unhealthy what happened with ripple (i agree)...but it's also part of the natural growth of the space and is important for it growing in a healthy way....trying to control this stuff loses the very thing that makes it valuable
05:12
i'm simply saying...."have better marketing"
OK
05:12
O K
On the one hand I agree, you're right it's a huge psychological obstacle for some people. On the other hand I understand that if you bring value to the table, the market will eventually see that. You don't need people to buy "because I can afford 1000 for $1" for the market to eventually match the value created
TG
05:12
Toby Ganger
that's not equivalent of controlling anything...it's just making this stuff human facing so that ANYONE who wants to speculate/invest/use/or develop can do so...not trying to keep out certain actors that are organic in the space
OK
ŽM
05:14
Živojin Mirić
nothing important will change, just that stupid psychological barrier that people often have and if it's beneficial it's best to change it sooner than later, especially since it's simple technically
OK
05:14
O K
At the end of the day you can't fool the market. The people that buy because it's cheap will have weak hands too. They ultimately contribute little to nothing. But still, if that's what you guys want, I think it's a simple change, just start with the javascript and submit the PR on the github
05:14
In reply to this message
Let me pose one question, I don't think this has been done before, and then I'll drop it
05:15
What if veo is in the top 100 market cap with like $40,000 value
TG
OK
05:15
O K
And CNN or some main stream crap media company headlines "More valuable than Bitcoin?"
05:15
Do you not think this could have some interesting psychological impact also?
ŽM
05:15
Živojin Mirić
well it would have
05:15
I am open for arguments against change, I just didn't hear any
05:16
until now
TG
05:16
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
it has a MUCH more difficult path to get there than if it had the same market cap but was worth 4 dollars
OK
05:16
O K
In reply to this message
Other arguments are that some of us have been here for awhile and already have a feel for what a veo is
05:16
In reply to this message
Another argument is that one day USD is meaningless, and we evaluate things in BTC, before we evaluate things in Veo
TG
05:16
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
thus why it's so important to make the change now before the community gets bigger
OK
05:16
O K
1 veo = 5 BTC is easier than some large number
ŽM
05:17
Živojin Mirić
that maybe excludes people with smaller capital
OK
05:17
O K
In reply to this message
I'm not going to throw a wrench in it, I've said my piece. Just food for thought
05:17
We always have Zackoshis
ŽM
05:17
Živojin Mirić
I mean excludes in their own head :D
TG
05:17
Toby Ganger
BTC has first mover advantage and the best decentralization and distribution mechanism and it still faces a big obstacle that every day people won't buy because they think it's too expensive
OK
05:17
O K
Make the change guys, submit the PR
05:18
We can bet on in if we have to
TG
05:21
Toby Ganger
i'm not a programmer...i teach economics...
OK
05:21
O K
You can open an issue if you want instead
TG
05:21
Toby Ganger
the issue is open...and i think probably most of the people who are familiar with crypto markets would agree
05:22
because otherwise it's very unlikely that it ever reaches that 40k "more expensive" than Bitcoin moment
OK
05:22
O K
Link?
Z
05:22
Zack
The type of person who thinks that Veo is too expensive compared to ripple is someone we do not want to invest in amoveo.
They haven't done any research. They are weak hands that increase the volatility.
They haven't done any research. They are weak hands that increase the volatility.
TG
05:23
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
Volatility will be there either way...by keeping a huge swath of investors out you make it more illiquid and thus more volatile
05:23
saying you don't want a certain type of investor to invest in your crypto is a certain death certificate for your coin
OK
05:23
O K
People who make decisions off of exchange rate alone are not 'investors'
TG
05:23
Toby Ganger
i know several large whales who believe deeply in your tech and are staying out precisely because of this
Z
05:25
Zack
This is a betting platform. A stable unit price is more important than a bigger market cap.
We can't afford to market ourselves towards fickle volatile investors.
We can't afford to market ourselves towards fickle volatile investors.
TG
05:25
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
i was using his terms...day traders, pump and dumpers, scalpers...etc....whatever you want to call them..they are a crucial part of this space and trying to purposely keep capital and liquidity out of your ecosystem is a death sentence
05:25
you market yourself towards the masses...what you will end up with is a much less liquid platform and thus far more volatility
05:27
crypto works because that greed mechanism drives people into the system which strengthens it, gives it liquidity, gives it more utility, and as it gets larger more stability......trying to keep people out as a way to keep stability is illogical
OK
05:27
O K
I'm not putting up any gates or anything
TG
05:28
Toby Ganger
and let's be honest....90% of the people mining your coin and giving it security right now are doing so to make PROFIT off new investors....and the new investors are buying because they see the potential for the tech to attract new "investors" and users if it's more forward facing.....in any coin...no matter the utility...no matter the ideological underpinning...90% plus of the people are there to make a profit
OK
05:29
O K
I'm here to make a profit
TG
05:29
Toby Ganger
you can not control that....and if you try to keep the profit seekers out you screw everyone including yourself
OK
05:29
O K
I'm not trying to keep anyone out
TG
05:30
Toby Ganger
ok...let me rephrase that ...not "keeping people out"..but rather "purposely avoiding making things human facing"
05:30
which ultimately produces the same result
OK
05:30
'human facing'
05:31
Deleted Account
Ripple? Really? lol
TG
05:31
Toby Ganger
Ripple is crap and besides the point...i apologize for bringing it up
05:32
but anyways...the fact that I currently know at least 3 or 4 very large players who are holding off putting millions into this coin because they're also in it for a profit despite loving the tech..and they know that if continues to not be human facing it will fail
05:33
Deleted Account
3 or 4 players? Oh boy you don't know what you are talking about.
05:34
Please be consistent in your opinions.
OK
05:34
O K
Hey Toby, I'm glad you're here, thanks for the discussion
IP
05:36
i think the more different people come the better
05:37
it is clearly easier for human being to denominate in 30mVeo compared to 0.03 veo
05:38
kids at school usually have much more problems learning fractions compared to operating with regular numbers
TG
IP
05:40
I P
yeah discussion is always good
TG
05:42
Deleted Account
You are assuming something from another different process,
TG
05:42
Toby Ganger
what am I assuming? I said I know 3 or 4 big players personally who are holding out on putting very large amounts of money into this coin specifically because the supply is not human facing and they are interested in making profit like everyone else
05:45
Deleted Account
This includes the comparative between assets without making a proper analysis I mean the progress on this two projects are abysmal and the process to reach a price requires multiple factors, it's not about a whale
HH
05:45
Hidden Hand
In reply to this message
3 or 4 people don’t matter. There is plenty of interest here in Silicon Valley from large whales who dwarf your 3-4ppl. Sophisticated investors here understand.
TG
05:45
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say but it is apparent that it is irrelevant to what I'm saying...
05:46
In reply to this message
Didn't say that 3 or 4 people matter...I only brought them up as an example of people who UNDERSTAND the tech and why it's important who are staying away because it's not human facing
05:46
the point was relevant to the discussion about not wanting certain "investors" in this coin
TG
05:46
Toby Ganger
yes you both get each other but not me
IP
05:47
everyone matters
TG
05:47
Toby Ganger
if we say we don't want a certain type of investor involved because they don't get the tech or utility of it or long term value...then you also begin to lose the people who do get it who don't want to invest because keeping out the first group reduces their profitability
05:49
Deleted Account
My bad, I mean Toby, you can see the process and make a comparative but you can't assume that only one factor it's the cause
TG
05:49
Toby Ganger
i'm saying that the lack of human facing effort in this coin IS the factor keeping them from investing with the supply issue being the main aspect of that
05:49
that's not an assumption...direct words from their mouth
05:50
now they don't speak for everyone of course....but savvy investors understand the motivations of the masses
05:50
and without those masses they can't profit....so they don't invest without the masses involvement
IP
05:51
I P
well i may be saying a very stupid stuff right now but if veo gets a default unit in wallets as mVeo (0.001) and we can get human readable aliases (like paypal emails or whatever) that would be cool
05:51
Deleted Account
I understand what you mean, but are different process, and the grow of amoveo depends from multiple facts, not just the investor
HH
05:51
Hidden Hand
This project is super early. We don’t need the masses right now. How long have you been in this space? I’ve been actively investing in equity crypto and trading since 2011. This isn’t the next Tron. There are tons of projects for today’s masses. The best projects have evolution and growth over time.
IP
05:52
I P
In reply to this message
the borderline is you want more and more people to actually use this blockchain
I
05:52
Iridescence
I am fully behind Toby 's suggestion. It has good upside with little to no downside
HH
05:52
Hidden Hand
Focus should be on tech, health of chain and it’s security.
IP
05:52
I P
you always want to have widespread adoption
HH
05:53
Deleted Account
For sure, but this implies a correct grow, its not an ICO
IP
05:53
I P
In reply to this message
while that is true, if there is no adoption- how cares how secure and healthy it is
I
05:53
Iridescence
If you don't care about the units, you shouldn't care whether it's mVeo or Veo
05:53
Market cap is still the same
05:53
It's easier to change this earlier rather than later
05:54
Especially since Zack's exchange is coming soon(?)
TG
05:55
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
all these things come with economic incentive...thus the need for an increase of users...it's economics..
JS
MF
TG
05:58
Toby Ganger
welcome to the blockchain
getting tired of having to explain
i know it's really not my place
but the decimal should move 5 spaces
VEO
decentralize the bets
security, transparency,
the network is run by Hess
VEO!
getting tired of having to explain
i know it's really not my place
but the decimal should move 5 spaces
VEO
decentralize the bets
security, transparency,
the network is run by Hess
VEO!
MF
05:58
Mr Flintstone
good*
05:58
haha
I
05:59
Iridescence
🤭
Z
06:00
Zack
We can keep making announcements about switching to miliveo, but then have technical delays to push our switchover date back again.
06:00
That way people will think we are about to have a pump from moving the decimal.
06:00
So people will keep investing, trying to be ahead of the pump.
TG
06:01
Toby Ganger
short term there will be pumps and dumps...this is all normal and should be irrelevant to most investors and developers...
06:01
the sooner it is announced and implemented the better
I
MF
06:02
Mr Flintstone
lol
06:02
Deleted Account
Can work
A
IP
06:03
switching to mVeo will make it borderline more usable and friendly to like 95% people out there
06:03
if that comes with a pump- fine, don't really care
TG
06:04
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
yes...this is simply a practical switch that should be easy to implement (now..not later) and makes it more human facing
Z
06:05
Zack
We could make this strategy more effective by first switching to kiloveo. So the market cap is 26 tokens, and one token is $300,000.
Then every 2 weeks we make the announcement that the decimal will move 7 places in 3 more weeks.
Then every 2 weeks we make the announcement that the decimal will move 7 places in 3 more weeks.
NI
06:05
Net Indexed
Much irrelevant -.- iota it’s the opposite, not a prob either
IP
ŽM
06:06
Živojin Mirić
Since it's all about appearance create a poll like for the logos
A
TG
06:06
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
People are irrational....being aware of that predictable irrationality and learning how to navigate it is not akin to being irrational oneself
06:10
problem: people have unit bias for a variety of economic and intellectual reasons
solution: make the unit appeal to their bias
making fun of the silliness of the bias neither changes it nor improves the potential viability of the tech adoption
solution: make the unit appeal to their bias
making fun of the silliness of the bias neither changes it nor improves the potential viability of the tech adoption
NI
06:12
Net Indexed
The different triggers curiosity
TG
06:14
Toby Ganger
profit triggers curiousity
06:15
address format should probably be bech32 also but that's a whole other issue
06:15
Deleted Account
Why?
TG
06:15
Toby Ganger
are you asking why profit triggers curiosity?
IP
06:16
I P
by the way it would be cool in terms of usability if i could buy a 'nickname' alias on the veo network like "IP" or whatever so that if smb want to pay me they don't pay to my public key but pay to a nickname (ofc it will be a payment to a pubkey on the blockchain) and it gets to me. Of course that binding of an alias to pubkey should be paid with veo
TG
06:17
Toby Ganger
also possible..i agree
06:18
although I think the decimal issue is the most glaring problem as of the moment and it's so minor to fix right now
Z
06:22
Zack
In reply to this message
Yes, it is a good idea. I spent a lot of time thinking about how to build this type of system.
But I came to the conclusion that a tool should have 1 job.
Instead of teaching amoveo to be both a betting platform and a name registry, I think it would be better if we integrated Amoveo's wallet with a different blockchain that did name registration.
That way amoveo can focus on what it is designed for.
But I came to the conclusion that a tool should have 1 job.
Instead of teaching amoveo to be both a betting platform and a name registry, I think it would be better if we integrated Amoveo's wallet with a different blockchain that did name registration.
That way amoveo can focus on what it is designed for.
06:23
Name coin for example
ŽM
06:23
There is a poll already?
IP
TG
06:27
Toby Ganger
I think a move of 4 decimal spaces would be most ideal...making supply 250 million....does anyone else who agrees there should be a shift in the unit have any input on the specificities of the shift?
IP
06:31
I P
In reply to this message
4 decimals is kind of confusing. 3 decimals mVeo is kind of logical
TG
06:32
Toby Ganger
so 25 million supply? with current price around 40 cents?
06:33
i think that's workable...i think 250 million is more idea for public appeal...but 25 million would be workable
OK
06:33
O K
If you're talking about "public appeal" and the "evidence" you have, can you please cite it
06:33
Deleted Account
Thank you
06:34
Deleted Account
milli veo sounds interesting
IP
06:35
blockheight
TG
06:35
Toby Ganger
yes we understand the supply stays the same in satoshi terms...i'm talking about the PUBLIC FACING supply
OK
06:35
O K
You've made a case for why there should be a shift. If you assume there will be a shift, now you need to argue for "how much" of a shift there should be and "why" that is ideal. I expect that will be much harder for you.
TG
IP
06:36
I P
well usually shifts are on 3 orders of magnitude
06:36
Deleted Account
maybe 100x is more reasonable than 1000x
IP
06:36
I P
milliveo, microveo, nanoveo
OK
06:36
O K
In reply to this message
I will give you another assumption to work with, Amoveo shoots for number 1.
IP
06:36
I P
kiloveo,megaveo=)
Z
06:37
Zack
0.026 megaveo market cap. sounds good.
06:38
1 megaveo is $300,000,000
TG
06:39
Toby Ganger
Amoveo should shift it's public facing supply by 1000 at minimum....if that number is the easiest to implement mVEO to VEO...then that's a fair compromise....I think maximum public appeal would come with a 10,000 x increase and that's just based on human psychology with the pricing and market experience....1000 is workable..10,000 is best
OK
06:39
O K
mega sounds strong
Z
06:40
Zack
lol
TG
06:44
Toby Ganger
1000x - current price around 40 cents....if it's able to reach 1 billion market cap that puts price around $40....
10,000x - current price around 4 cents....if it's able to reach 1 billion market cap that puts price around $4
I think the latter has the most psychological and economic appeal to the average investor
10,000x - current price around 4 cents....if it's able to reach 1 billion market cap that puts price around $4
I think the latter has the most psychological and economic appeal to the average investor
06:45
but at least the former is more workable
IP
06:47
It can reach 1bln cap with 10 cents per mveo
06:48
You just need much more coins
TG
06:48
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
that is also true...but there are economic incentives against massively increasing the supply of coins
06:49
I don't think increasing the amount of coins is a good idea for anyone....i'm only talking about the public facing "supply" by which the unit is determined and thus the price per unit
06:51
Zack I hope you understand where I'm coming from and whether you agree with the solution or not I hope you recognize that accounting for human irrationality is not a stupid endeavor
06:56
Deleted Account
i have to second Toby 's points. decimals are not natural to use and i have seen how many folks mess up decimal points during trading on DEX
06:56
Deleted Account
hey guys
06:57
trying to buy from someone, and he can't even send veo to the wallet that we bitrated to..
06:57
he said he click sends but nothing happen, is there a minimum to send?
OK
06:57
O K
What does bitrated mean?
06:58
Deleted Account
sorry it's a escrow
06:58
but he's trying to send to a new wallet address
06:58
but he said nothing happens
OK
06:59
O K
Is he using a node that is synced? Is he copying and pasting the address?
TG
I
07:18
Iridescence
Price is set by supply and demand
OK
I
07:18
Iridescence
Good way to get an idea is to check the market cap
07:19
Circulating supply mutiplied by estimate of price
MF
07:21
Mr Flintstone
that is weird. is he using an old light wallet?
07:21
there used to be two separate buttons: create and spend
07:21
you needed to use create if you were sending to an account that had no prior veo
OK
07:23
O K
You don't have to do that anymore
07:23
Unless you're thinking about the node maybe? Not sure, but I've definitely spent to new accounts before
MF
07:24
Mr Flintstone
yeah, zack made it so it’s all in one button
07:24
for light wallet
Jose Burrito invited Jose Burrito
Z
07:55
Zack
In reply to this message
what is the address you are trying to send to? maybe it was copy/pasted wrong.
08:20
Deleted Account
OK helped us. Thank you all :)
M
08:22
Mike
08:23
Your price prediction has been spot on.
MF
08:23
Mr Flintstone
when was this taken?
M
08:24
Mike
January 19th
MF
08:25
Mr Flintstone
I remember when mainnet started, veo was going for 25. I think that was the lowest I ever saw it trade for
M
08:26
Mike
I remember $80 as the base price, I think that’s what Zack first auctioned for. I could be wrong
MF
08:26
Mr Flintstone
lol I won that auction
OK
08:26
O K
I tried and failed to grab some in the 30s
MF
08:26
Mr Flintstone
I think it was like 50-60 usd each
M
08:27
Mike
Ok. In that case I would love a price correction
MF
08:54
>400 spends today
08:54
I wonder how many come from the pools
I
08:58
Iridescence
Ayy, I'm in there too!
08:58
Z
09:13
In reply to this message
I think you did the first big trade. it was with me at a price of $50 per veo.
I
09:17
Iridescence
"Price discovery" 🙈
Deleted joined group by link from Group
DK
09:59
Deve Kliman
Is there a price chart from day 1 to present?
10:00
Volume? Total supply? Market cap? Are those meaningful here?
MF
10:05
Mr Flintstone
only exchange has been OTC so no price chart
10:05
same goes for volume
10:06
current supply like 26k. market cap around 8mn
DK
10:17
Deve Kliman
So it kinda started one day at $25 and is where now?
10:18
How do we really know what it is just based on what people ask to be paid?
Z
10:19
Zack
We have never known the price with much depth.
MF
10:28
Mr Flintstone
probs like 300
Jaylen invited Jaylen
MF
10:28
Mr Flintstone
I am confident that you could sell veo for 300 given a large enough quantity
Maxi MH Chow invited Maxi MH Chow
TG
11:01
Toby Ganger
I bought for more than that
S
11:23
Sy
241 blocks in 24h
11:23
damn
TG
11:54
Toby Ganger
that's 1 every 6 minutes more or less...how often does difficulty readjust?
MF
11:59
Mr Flintstone
2000 blocks
Rob ® invited Rob ®
Maxi MH Chow invited John T.
S
12:33
Sy
next one will hit even harder
I
13:39
Iridescence
Chinese miners have arrived 🐋🐋🐳
13:39
Zack can give you help with the mining pool
T
13:54
Topab
What is the current suppy? is there a maximum supply set or an inflation calculated?
S
14:13
Sebsebzen
I also strongly support mVEO
14:14
If Zack doesn’t want to do it, we have to talk among the wallet providers
14:20
Deleted Account
mVEO for the win !
14:22
oh we crossed 600! growing fast
TG
14:39
Toby Ganger
yes...mVEO at the very least makes the situation a lot better
NI
14:46
Net Indexed
Toby this channel was a neat before it’s gotten spammed by an unending wall of text about your massappeal concern. Every freakin post.I think we all got it -.-
14:47
I respect ur view but gotta chill.
A
14:49
Aries
lol
14:50
Toby has Master's he has to answer too
14:50
to Justify a sale
TG
14:50
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
I was having a conversation with people earlier. And this time I agreed with someone else's comment. I'm quite chill and finished making my point.
A
14:50
Aries
bady Toby!!!
TG
14:51
Toby Ganger
In reply to this message
Is there a reason for this sudden douchebaggery when the conversation ended amicably about 6 hours ago?
14:51
It's childish and stupid.
14:53
Now get back to talking about the coin and ideas. I am irrelevant to the subject we are here for.
S
15:40
Sebsebzen
Or just use zackoshi
15:40
Unit
A
16:23
Aries
that should be trademarked
16:23
by you @sebsebzen
16:56
Deleted Account
Show your command line after the wallet adress
drdent18 joined group by link from Group
K
17:49
Kale
I also strongly support mVEO
S
18:22
Sy
260 blocks in 24h
18:22
hashrate still rising
K
18:25
Kale
if someone ddos all pool,what happened will?
S
18:27
Sy
no blocks ofc
18:27
except one i guess
18:27
otherwise ddos would be pointless ^^
18:27
but i can get another pool running in 30 minutes
18:27
so...good luck ^^
IP
18:29
anyways difficulty adjusts only every 2000 blocks so if you ddos pools and mine yourself you will have high diff anyways
K
18:30
Kale
now nethash is?
18:33
12t
S
18:35
Sy
more like 20+
18:35
ap2 has 14.8th
18:36
veopool.pw 2.8th
18:36
looking at the numbers zack has aproximately 3.5 times less so below 1 th
18:36
and the last pool got around 4.5th
K
18:39
Kale
ap2 is 11.9
18:42
not 14
N
K
18:43
Kale
i only have 3t
S
18:57
Sy
well when i just checked it sait 14.9
18:58
18:58
have fun guessing hashrates :)
18:58
and ap2 still shows 14+
N
18:58
NM$L
14.9*0.6075
S
18:59
Sy
/
18:59
but yes
18:59
24
N
18:59
NM$L
huge
S
18:59
Sy
and increasing
19:00
almost double the blocktarget
N
19:00
NM$L
hows the zec
19:00
compare veo
19:00
hashrate
K
19:19
Kale
veo now is a small coin now
19:20
we should 闷声发大财
Zephix invited Zephix
MH
20:05
Mandel Hoff
@jimtalksdata Thank you for your stats page. Does the new stats page have the predicted diff change like the old one? I really liked that feature, and it was generally very accurate too. Looks like the old one stopped at 20k, and I might just be failing to find that value on the new site if it's there. Thank you.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
J
21:38
Jim
Yes, I plan to add that later
21:38
Once I figure out how to use highcharts lol
MH
21:39
Mandel Hoff
Sounds great! Thank you. 👍
G
22:55
oh yes.. I'm sending you a PM
23:19
Deleted Account
@Gonzalo Thank you for suggestions. These days I've been very busy (wanna go full time on crypto some day...). But I'll gradually improve veoscan when I have time.
G
12 May 2018
Advanced invited Deleted Account
I
01:53
IRD
+1 mVEO
MF
01:59
Mr Flintstone
where’s the mveo tipbot lol
JM
02:07
J M
What are the plans for a stablecoin?
02:12
I was reading the discussion yesterday about price and volatility and I'm a little concerned about Zack's comment about wanting a stable price for Veo.
02:12
Even with a big market cap there's no way to guarantee a stable price of veo unless you specifically engineer a stability mechanism
02:15
and even if it is randomly stable with a big market cap, unless there's a stability mechanism there's still no guarantee that it will stay stable during the period in which i am making a bet, which is really all i care about as someeone making a bet
OK
02:16
O K
In reply to this message
I wouldn't be too concerned about this, because market participants will factor in volatility or expected changes in price in their market activities
JM
02:16
J M
I'm not convinced that's possible
02:16
but even so, why would I want to do that?
OK
02:16
O K
What do you mean?
JM
02:16
J M
as a bettor I just want to bet on the NBA playoffs or whatever
02:17
how can you possibly predict expected price change?
OK
02:17
O K
I would hope to come out with more Veo than I started with for now
02:17
But when you loan someone money, and they offer you 3%, most people will consider whether their money will be worth 4% less in the future. Whether it's conscious or not
JM
02:17
J M
not everyone cares about optimizing the number of VEO in their wallet
02:18
people have fixed costs denominated in their local fiat currency, for example, and just want to make money
OK
02:18
O K
As use increases, volatility will fall naturally
JM
02:18
J M
that's a truism
OK
02:18
O K
It doesn't have to appeal to everyone right away and at the same time
JM
02:18
J M
it's not even about appeal it's about utility
OK
02:19
O K
In reply to this message
It's not really a truism, the volatility is the same, but as a % of price, it's less significant
JM
02:19
J M
the system will work using VEO as collateral but it will work better with a stablecoin
02:19
the point is that you can make a bet and actually lose money because of volatility
OK
02:19
O K
You factor that into your odds
JM
02:19
J M
how?
OK
02:20
O K
What do you expect are the odds you will lose money due to volatility? Combine that with the "stable" odds of the bet you are making. Place the bet
JM
02:20
J M
you honestly think that's the best system?
OK
02:21
O K
It's a market system, in the early days it's fine
JM
02:21
J M
my question was more how do you do that accurately?
02:21
i understand it will kind of work in the early days and that stablecoins are hard to do
02:21
so i was wondering what the plans are
OK
02:22
O K
I'm sure Zack has a good answer, I'll stop spamming the chat
JM
02:22
J M
but you're never going to convince me that collateralizing bets with a volatile asset is better than doing so with a stable asset
OK
02:22
Here you go
JM
02:24
J M
thanks
02:27
having to factor in the price to your bets also ruins a feature of prediciton markets which is deriving odds/probabilities for future events from market forces, right? so you have to try and figure out the community's sentiment around price to make some adjustment to the odds. to me this is needlessly complex and inefficient
OK
02:27
O K
In reply to this message
Wouldn't having a market for that specific question make it rather simple?
JM
02:28
J M
i guess so, still a needless extra step tho
MF
02:53
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
if your bets are denominated in veo, you can hedge this veo usd price risk by shorting veo in another linear market with notional equivalent to your bets notional
OK
JM
02:58
J M
makes sense, but we all agree that's an inferior solution to just betting with a stablecoin in the first place, right?
MF
03:15
Mr Flintstone
depends on how the stablecoin works
03:16
if people somehow come up with a non collateralized stablecoin that works then I guess so. any collateralized stablecoin offers you payouts just like my description above
JM
03:17
J M
what do you mean? as a user I don't care how the stablecoin works, just that it stays stable, or am i missing something
MF
03:18
Mr Flintstone
there are always drawbacks with stablecoins
03:18
depending on how they are constructed
03:19
many of them use collateral and a price feed to maintain a stable value, but this only works as long as the collateral doesn’t lose too much value
JM
03:21
J M
so you don't believe stablecoins will work? soemthing like maker is designed around retaining value around black swan events
03:21
anyway, there are drawbacks to shorting too
MF
03:22
Mr Flintstone
I’m just saying stablecoins like maker work as if you’re shorting against someone who is margin longed
03:22
just like how I described you would remove you veo usd price risk above
03:23
if the price decreases too much, the long side runs out of margin. this is how maker works
03:23
abstractly
JM
03:23
J M
so i guess it depends if you are more concerned about a black swan event happening during your bet or short term volatility
03:24
even if you're collateralizing your bet with something that has a huge market cap you could lose more on volatility than you win in the bet
03:24
so that's the primary issue, to me
M
03:34
Mike
In reply to this message
I don’t have enough time today to make sure of this, but couldn’t the Oracle/bookmaker just provide parimutuel odds based on $USD in the pool
Z
05:52
Zack
In reply to this message
In Amoveo a stable coin is made like a synthetic asset. It is a combination of a bunch of derivatives.
05:53
In reply to this message
by looking at the interest rate, and multiplying that by the duration of the bet.
Z
06:27
Zack
Ive been making preparations to launch this exchange, and I came to a problem.
I am worried that you guys are going to throw hundreds of thousands of dollars onto the exchange, and then my VPS provider is going to steal the tokens.
This isn't what VPS is designed for, I doubt they have the security in place to handle this volume of funds.
So I have been thinking that instead, every 24 hours I will download a list of withdraws from the exchange, and then sign all the transactions from cold storage.
This type of design is far more secure, but it comes with the drawback that you have to wait a day to get your tokens.
What do you guys think? is cold storage security better or worse?
I am worried that you guys are going to throw hundreds of thousands of dollars onto the exchange, and then my VPS provider is going to steal the tokens.
This isn't what VPS is designed for, I doubt they have the security in place to handle this volume of funds.
So I have been thinking that instead, every 24 hours I will download a list of withdraws from the exchange, and then sign all the transactions from cold storage.
This type of design is far more secure, but it comes with the drawback that you have to wait a day to get your tokens.
What do you guys think? is cold storage security better or worse?
LB
06:29
Luke B
Zack That sounds fine. I think for a while Bitmex used a similar system, they may still use it.
06:32
Deleted Account
Cold storage it's the first way, centralized but necessary in this stage of the project ...
MF
06:39
Mr Flintstone
Bitmex still uses it
06:40
but agreed on cold storage signing, once a day withdrawals
I
JS
07:06
Jon Snow
In reply to this message
I prefer security over convenience. Cold storage sounds fine.
LB
07:07
Luke B
Am I able to create a market? Would like to create one for NBA playoffs.
OK
07:11
O K
In reply to this message
Will there be a mandatory time limit that an order can remain unfilled before it is cancelled? I think I remember you talking about that possibility
NI
MF
07:23
you will probably need to create an oracle first
07:23
api:new_question_oracle(Start, Question).
07:24
start is block height when betting starts
07:24
it will return an identifier. you call the below function to launch the market
07:24
api:new_market(OID, Expires, Period).
07:25
OID is the oracle identifier
07:25
“period is how many blocks you have to wait till bets get matched in a batch. Expires is the height at which betting stops.”
LB
07:26
Luke B
Ok my issue is that if I want to create a market for the game, how do I know when to end the market? I want to be sure the market isnt open after the game. The block times are too variable to calculate it right now.
MF
07:26
Mr Flintstone
please note that calling new_question_oracle costs 0.3 veo
07:26
you can just be conservative
07:27
it doesn’t actually impact the way markets work too much if the oracle starts late
LB
07:27
Luke B
ok, Thanks!
JS
Z
07:45
Zack
In reply to this message
I set up the exchange to have 2 limits. Minimum time till the trade goes stale, and maximum time till it goes stale.
For now it is 1 hour to 24 hours, but I might change it.
For now it is 1 hour to 24 hours, but I might change it.
LB
Z
07:47
Zack
In reply to this message
Why not leave the market open after the game?
Usually this is not a problem.
Usually this is not a problem.
J
07:47
Jim
@Mandelhoff I have added predicted difficulty to mveo.net, I don’t know the highcharts to get it to overlap the difficulty graph, but the data is there
Z
07:47
Zack
In reply to this message
It is hard to predict these things.
I didn't give the 2 week warning about launching Amoveo until it was already good enough to launch.
I didn't give the 2 week warning about launching Amoveo until it was already good enough to launch.
LB
07:47
Luke B
In reply to this message
Am I missing something? Then the outcome would be known and people could get free money right?
J
07:48
Jim
Currently predicted difficulty at block 21000 is 11740 TH/block
It is now even more accurate because there was some inaccuracy in how nethash was assigned per block previously
It is now even more accurate because there was some inaccuracy in how nethash was assigned per block previously
Z
07:53
Zack
In reply to this message
The outcome is known, but they can't get free money.
For example, lets say team A beat team B.
There are 2 ways to cash out early.
The price in your market would move to the point where there is about 99% chance that team A won.
1) Everyone with shares of B would be willing to sell at almost any price above 0. When users with share type B do this, they are letting users with share type A cash out.
2) if you buy shares of A, then you will make a small 1% profit when the market closes.
If you have winning shares of A, then you can sell them for 99% of the profit now, or you can wait till the oracle settles to get 100%.
The small 1% difference reflects the time value of money. It pays users for leaving their money locked up.
When someone decides to leave their money locked up, it lets other users with share type A cash out.
For example, lets say team A beat team B.
There are 2 ways to cash out early.
The price in your market would move to the point where there is about 99% chance that team A won.
1) Everyone with shares of B would be willing to sell at almost any price above 0. When users with share type B do this, they are letting users with share type A cash out.
2) if you buy shares of A, then you will make a small 1% profit when the market closes.
If you have winning shares of A, then you can sell them for 99% of the profit now, or you can wait till the oracle settles to get 100%.
The small 1% difference reflects the time value of money. It pays users for leaving their money locked up.
When someone decides to leave their money locked up, it lets other users with share type A cash out.
MH
07:55
Mandel Hoff
Thank you Jim!
J
08:05
Jim
In reply to this message
If you’re good with highcharts, would welcome help with the visual front end stuff to make it pretty (just fork the GitHub)
ΔLΞXΔNDΞR invited ΔLΞXΔNDΞR
A
Z
12:14
Zack
If I did a pre-sale for Amoveo ASICS that cost the same as a high end GPU, but mined 10x faster and used 10x less electricity, how much money would I be able to raise from you guys?
I
MK
I
12:17
Iridescence
I wonder what the minimum would be
12:17
would we need to contribute the minimum unit cost of 1 ASIC?
Z
12:19
Zack
Well, you would need to pay for at least 1 ASIC eventually. I can't mail 1/2 an ASIC to you.
I
M
12:28
Raising in VEO or BTC?
Z
12:34
Zack
Maybe I should just pay for it myself, and then sell them afterwards.
Raising funds in VEO would be weird. Since I would have to immediately sell all the VEO in order to pay for the manufacturing.
I haven't planned it all out yet.
Raising funds in VEO would be weird. Since I would have to immediately sell all the VEO in order to pay for the manufacturing.
I haven't planned it all out yet.
K
12:56
Kale
zack,we shouldnt make asic miner
Deleted invited Deleted Account
M
K
13:40
Kale
it will destroy amoveo
13:42
only chinese can make it
LB
13:51
Luke B
The NBA playoffs market is live for anyone who wants to bet on it: http://168.62.52.179:8080/explorer.html
@GoodGuyMat invited @GoodGuyMat
Z
S
S
15:02
Sebsebzen
Zack the cold storage tx is a good idea, but then at the same time, the centralised risk is you
Z
15:02
Zack
it is a centralized exchange
S
15:03
Sebsebzen
Yep but even for a centralised exchange
15:03
It’s usually more distributed
Z
15:03
Zack
How would you know that? Exchanges usually don't share their internals.
S
15:04
Sebsebzen
Knowing from TDAX for example
15:04
It’s three people, but need two in order to access
15:04
Smth like that
15:05
Plus there needs to be physical security in place too
15:06
Who has access to the office
15:06
Running an exchange is terrible work
15:06
It constantly requires attention
15:06
And always fires to put out
15:07
I’m worried it will consume all your time after a while
Z
15:07
Zack
Well, ill just make the fees very high. And within 2 weeks someone will use my open source code to make a better exchange.
15:07
high fees will reduce the number of users and make it manageable.
S
15:07
Sebsebzen
Yeah. Or make it in a way that it’s easy for existing exchanges to implement it
TG
15:15
Toby Ganger
Or just have the coin listed on an existing exchange so you don't have to worry about any of it. Seems like a lot of work and hassle to create something that already exists no?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
15:39
Deleted Account
for whom may concern about mining:
Hi all, our new version of cuda miner has been released. We have enough confidence to claim that this is the fastest VEO miner for Nvidia devices (It achieves 5.1 Gh/s on OC GTX1080Ti and 4.7 Gh/s on original GTX 1080Ti). However, we are still trying to make this miner more "easy-to-use", so every suggestion or feedback is appreciated:
https://github.com/krypdkat/AmoveoMinerMan/releases/tag/0.2
Hi all, our new version of cuda miner has been released. We have enough confidence to claim that this is the fastest VEO miner for Nvidia devices (It achieves 5.1 Gh/s on OC GTX1080Ti and 4.7 Gh/s on original GTX 1080Ti). However, we are still trying to make this miner more "easy-to-use", so every suggestion or feedback is appreciated:
https://github.com/krypdkat/AmoveoMinerMan/releases/tag/0.2
IP
15:49
I P
In reply to this message
are you talking about real asics or just xilinx FPGAs configured the right way?
S
15:51
Sy
well....fpga != asic i'd say
C
16:29
my advice, restructure your config file =)
16:38
3.51 ghs on 1070ti =)
IP
C
16:47
Chris 🍞
i just wanted to ask that
16:47
i noticed 2 of my 6 cards riggs only using 1 card
JT
16:51
Just Wallet address?
C
16:51
yeah just adres
16:51
but single card only it seems
JT
16:51
John T.
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
😀, 14.2 KB
Robin invited Robin
Cheee invited Cheee
K
19:30
Kale
who know 1070ti's code
ŽM
19:40
And my rig doesnt work on 256 256 5x 1080ti, cpu to the limit on self optimizing conf I get 64 64 or 64 96 and I get 1.5ghs on benchmark which is terrible
19:40
Any suggestions?
S
19:57
Sy
i got a working windows version...but i think cygwin somehow screwed up the cpu usage
19:58
so it kinda blocks the rig but the speed is good xD
19:58
http://veopool.pw at the top
K
20:21
Kale
why we don't have a official website
S
20:21
Sy
i dont think we need one yet
20:21
github is full of infos
K
20:26
Kale
of course we need
C
20:33
cpu usage is overkill on 6x1070ti rigg
S
20:33
Sy
yep
C
20:33
Chris 🍞
about 3ghs
20:33
but have powertune on 87 right now
S
20:33
Sy
it looks like cygwin changed something so its "blocking" one core per cpu
20:33
speed should be unaffected but the rig is kinda unuseable
C
20:36
Chris 🍞
ghehe
20:36
i’m noticing 😛
20:36
can you add an uptime counter for next release?
20:36
my linux riggs have been stable from start =)
S
20:39
Sy
there is one in the stratum miner...just have to find the last bug
C
20:41
Chris 🍞
many stales in windows miner
S
20:41
Sy
which miner on what pool?
C
20:41
Chris 🍞
i'll send you a private message ok?
K
21:19
Kale
21:19
i made some key ring
OK
K
21:25
Kale
im not sure i use a correct logo
S
21:27
Sebsebzen
Yeah
21:28
My designer will send vector files today later
K
21:28
Kale
IT'S Correct？
Z
IP
22:19
I P
In reply to this message
holy crap, were you contacted by a manufacturer directly or smth?
22:19
i mean that is kind of fast transition
Z
C
Z
22:20
Zack
In reply to this message
I've talked to a few different people.
I probably won't start this process this month. I am still in the research phase.
I probably won't start this process this month. I am still in the research phase.
K
22:21
Kale
if u want to it i can ship it to u for free
Kaan invited Kaan
22:34
Deleted Account
What's the Tx/s of amoveo
IP
22:37
i see a lot of such questions like total supply, tps and etc
Z
22:38
Zack
Governance variables can be changed.
For now each block can hold 650 txs, and there block period is 10 minutes. So that is about 1 tx per second.
Channels allow as many tx as you want practically instantly.
For now each block can hold 650 txs, and there block period is 10 minutes. So that is about 1 tx per second.
Channels allow as many tx as you want practically instantly.
IP
22:38
I P
would be cool if we had a FAQ
Z
22:38
Zack
Just use the light node in the browser.
22:38
Channels are integrated.
MF
22:59
Mr Flintstone
any easy way to see list of oracles without full node?
22:59
I think veoscan just shows markets
IP
23:03
I P
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/design/channels.md Zack to be honest with you i'm not a blockchain expert for sure, neither am i stupid but i can't really get how channels work in veo right now. in a readme therere is this reference for open/close etc, you say that i need to 'just use the light node'
Z
IP
23:05
I P
Z
23:05
Zack
In reply to this message
Our goal is that the light node in browser should be self-explanatory.
Users should not have to read the docs just to use a channel.
Users should not have to read the docs just to use a channel.
23:06
The light node isn't perfect yet. We need to make changes to make it easier
IP
23:06
I P
ah, now i get it. every commands that are in the manual are actually processed by a light node interface - the one that i took a snapshot of
Z
23:10
Zack
Correct
MF
23:13
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
what if people like oracles but don’t know what channels are / nuances around them
23:13
like, they have only been exposed to fully on-chain oracles in the past
IP
23:14
I P
In reply to this message
well i can say smth for sure that using veo for an average person right now is smth close to rocket science
Z
23:15
Zack
For Amoveo all the users will use channels to make bets in markets.
Amoveo's oracle is fully on chain.
Probably less than 1% will participate in the Oracle mechanism.
Amoveo's oracle is fully on chain.
Probably less than 1% will participate in the Oracle mechanism.
MF
23:15
Mr Flintstone
sorry, fully on chain oracles with fully on chain markets
Z
23:19
Zack
Using channels to bet in a market is simpler than doing it on-chain.
Doing it on chain would require different steps. You need to commit to your trade first, then reveal it.
You need to wait confirmations between both steps.
Doing it on chain would require different steps. You need to commit to your trade first, then reveal it.
You need to wait confirmations between both steps.
IP
23:19
I P
In reply to this message
i've had an experiment. i've told some guys in a chat about veo, gave a link so that they could start mining and use it. They could not make it=)))))))))) they are just average people but with some crypto experience
Z
23:20
Zack
There is currently no market to make bets in. So obviously they cannot make bets in a market.
MF
23:34
Mr Flintstone
we should be able to do new_question_oracle from light node right?
13 May 2018
Z
01:10
Zack
no. the light node doesn't know about oracles.
01:11
That has never been part of the plan.
MF
01:22
Mr Flintstone
but you’re just signing a different kind of tx. in theory this is possible
01:22
sign then broadcast. u do not need a full node for that
J
01:25
Jim
Hey @zack, quick suggestion: add some sort of indication when a send tx is successfully broadcast. Currently the amt field is wiped with send, but no indication if tx is in mempool/broadcast
Z
03:13
Zack
In reply to this message
true, but almost no one needs to use the oracle. We should focus on solving problems for the 99% before we worry about the 1%.
03:15
In reply to this message
if the amount is deleted, then that means it should be in the mempool.
Can you tell us what you did that made this not work?
Can you tell us what you did that made this not work?
03:15
I need to be able to reproduce a bug in order to fix it
J
03:26
Jim
No, it works, it’s just not the most user friendly as is right now
MK
S
04:01
curl -i -d "[\"mining_data\"]" http://localhost:8081/
Z
S
04:17
Sy
Yep but isn't it used for mining?
Z
04:24
Zack
Not used for mining
S
04:29
Sy
when the node creates a potential block, does it change mining_data and increase height?
04:31
i mean instantly on the local node...or does it take some extra action / syncing?
Z
05:38
Zack
As soon as a node finds out about a new block, it generates a new potential block.
Mining data looks up info about the potential block.
Mining data looks up info about the potential block.
MK
06:28
Mitchell Amador Kuzzel | Immunefi
Zack, going to be in NYC?
MF
06:50
Mr Flintstone
lol
JS
07:06
Jon Snow
I’m pretty sure the answer is no lol
MK
07:27
Mitchell Amador Kuzzel | Immunefi
worth asking.
Z
07:39
Zack
no, I am not going to be in NYC.
Jordan invited Jordan
J
08:24
Jordan
Does anyone know what port amoveopool2 uses?
08:25
Trying to get veocl miner connected to that pool, but no matter what I try to use for the pool address it either doesn't connect or connects to the veopool.pw pool
OK
08:30
O K
Should just be port 80
MK
OK
08:30
O K
I don't have any experience with that miner
08:31
Are you adding /work to the URL?
J
08:40
If I just use amoveopool2.com it connects to veopool.pw which is the default pool for the miner
OK
08:41
O K
It's very possible it wasn't designed to connect to amoveopool2
J
08:55
Jordan
It's designed to, but what they have in their discord doesn't work
08:55
It errors out trying to get work
08:55
It works for other pool addresses that have he port in the address
08:55
That's why I asked what the port is. Im thinking adding it might work
08:57
I put in Port 80 and it's connected and ringing shares like crazy
08:57
Saying the difficulty is 6220
OK
08:59
O K
Is the difficulty adjusting?
J
09:01
Jordan
Yeah it went back up to normal
09:01
Why does your pool have a spot to upload private key?
OK
09:02
O K
It doesn't upload anything, it's just like every light node
09:02
You can inspect the js. There's even a disclaimer that encourages using a trusted node, or downloading the source from the github and doing it locally on your machine
J
09:03
Jordan
This veocl miner hash higher hashrate I'll be curious to see if your pool actually shoes a higher calculated hashrate
09:03
Man can't type today
OK
09:03
O K
😆
09:03
Cool I'd be interested to know how your tests turn out
J
09:04
Jordan
The miner is slick. Doesn't lag the display on Nvidia gpu
09:04
And I can install it on Ubuntu 17. Veominer1.5 uses Ubuntu 16.04 libraries and won't run for me
OK
09:05
O K
In reply to this message
Good point. I have several USB sticks with different flavors on them for just that reason
J
09:08
Jordan
Yeah I should just install 16.04 on a spare flash drive. Im contemplating trying out 18.04 now
09:08
You should put source code and compile instructions on GitHub so we can compile for any version.
OK
09:15
O K
This would be a request for PhamHuong92, via github issue or the discord
J
09:16
Jordan
Oh I thought it was your miner as well
09:23
Thanks for the help. Port 80 works
OK
09:24
O K
No problem ^_^ glad I could help
J
09:36
Jordan
Whats up with these giant 3-4 hour gaps without finding blocks?
OK
09:36
O K
There's no gap between finding blocks like that
J
09:37
Jordan
Why does your pool show 4hr gap from 3pm-7pm central
OK
09:37
O K
on the stats page?
J
09:37
Jordan
Yeah
OK
09:37
O K
That's a gap between *confirming* blocks
09:38
We have a conservative block confirmation time
J
09:38
Jordan
Oh ok so that's how long the 50 confirmations take?
OK
09:38
O K
Roughly, yes
09:40
Do you use veoscan.io at all?
09:40
It's not perfect (yet) but it's very good
J
Z
10:05
Zack
In reply to this message
I certainly don't want to break any laws.
If someone wants to attack a blockchain, they would have to be careful about it. If you do lots of small attacks, then you are just showing the developers how to make their blockchain secure.
The ideal attack would exploit many weaknesses at once. It would create or steal many tokens, and it would quickly mix or sell the tokens before the developers could lock down the attacker's funds.
It needs to take enough time before the attack is discovered so that many other transactions take place, and it is not feasible to undo history.
If someone wants to attack a blockchain, they would have to be careful about it. If you do lots of small attacks, then you are just showing the developers how to make their blockchain secure.
The ideal attack would exploit many weaknesses at once. It would create or steal many tokens, and it would quickly mix or sell the tokens before the developers could lock down the attacker's funds.
It needs to take enough time before the attack is discovered so that many other transactions take place, and it is not feasible to undo history.
J
10:09
JackZhou
I see. Thank you.
10:10
Zack How do you view the progress that AE has made?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
J
10:11
JackZhou
After all, you do a lot of original work.
10:17
Deleted Account
Tks :)
10:18
I think u r a talent guy in block chain area
10:19
or mine it
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
10:38
Zack
In reply to this message
I compare Amoveo to many competitors here: https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/progress_reports/May_2018.md
11:30
Deleted Account
11:31
dmbr0 I don’t know how to mine . It’s my first time to mine honestly.. is this right ?
11:33
Tks . If have any schedule about mining , can you give me some links ~ thank you very much ~~ I use windows system
11:35
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
😚, 41.4 KB
Z
14:03
Deleted Account
where to get my address
14:04
14:04
Zack tks again ~
14:04
14:05
is my pubkey？
S
14:14
Sy
obviously...yes
14:17
Deleted Account
... 😂
14:18
14:19
☺️ is like this ？ and change the config.txt name to config.exe ? 🧐
C
14:24
Chris 🍞
In reply to this message
if you were to exploit stuff in other chain, no matter which chain or what history you have with them is not a good thing in my book. make better tech and you wont have to exploit anything
S
S
G
15:50
Gonzalo
New pool announced at discord:
strugglebus - Today at 7:13 AM
new mining pool to spread some hash around on fellas
https://veo.shit.fish/
strugglebus - Today at 7:13 AM
new mining pool to spread some hash around on fellas
https://veo.shit.fish/
S
S
16:26
Sy
Zack if my node is behind height, does a sync:get_headers({IP, Port}). fix that or does it need a full sync?
17:06
Deleted Account
Any one knows why I can not attach to a running node? I can find the node process and can see the 8080 and 8081 open, but I just can not attach, the [make prod_attach] always errored out with [Node not running]
OK
17:07
Deleted Account
Not working with
make prod-restart
17:08
I think
make prod-restart is equal to make prod-go + make prod-attach
17:09
OK
17:09
O K
Those are normal running messages
17:11
Deleted Account
OK
17:17
O K
Did you clone everything into
fullnode directory? or did you move files around? normally a fresh git clone will clone into a directory named amoveo
17:18
I would move to a test directory, clone the git, kill any leftovers, and make prod-restart as the first command
17:19
will try without
fullnode in clone command
OK
17:32
Deleted Account
still no luck
18:04
Deleted Account
OK I found the reason, I have changed my own hostname, and the hostname I use is not in /etc/hosts , so the hostname not resolved to 127.0.0.1
N
18:04
NM$L
hi
S
19:26
Full identity pack here
19:26
Zack if you like you can upload the content on GitHub
Jože j invited Jože j
Z
V
20:51
Vitaliy
How much is now?
Z
20:52
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
I found the reason, I have changed my own hostname, and the hostname I use is not in /etc/hosts , so the hostname not resolved to 127.0.0.1
20:52
and it will break the connection between tty and node
Игорь invited Игорь
Oleksandr Sorokin invited Oleksandr Sorokin
OK
22:16
O K
amoveopool2 seems to be under an authentic ddos attack
G
Z
OK
22:26
O K
Are you familiar with looking at those kinds of patterns Zack?
Z
22:28
Zack
My pool is looking healthy so far.
Maybe it is an altruistic attack to try and stop the 51% problem.
Maybe it is an altruistic attack to try and stop the 51% problem.
OK
22:28
O K
It was decreasing already by 3-5% per day
22:28
Down to near 55%
22:29
Seems a weird time to decide to be "altruistic"
Z
OK
22:29
O K
We will only come out stronger, it doesn't matter the motivation
Z
22:30
Zack
I guess you should try and identify the ip address the attack is coming from, and block it
OK
22:30
O K
Yes I'm working on it
Z
22:30
Zack
If you can identify which part of the api they are using, that would be helpful too.
G
Z
22:30
Zack
I could put some bandwidth limits on the api so the same IP can't contact too frequently
MK
23:05
Mitchell Amador Kuzzel | Immunefi
In reply to this message
Are you also playing with VEO?
I really like it
I really like it
S
23:06
U there?
Z
23:16
Looks like he updated the logo too. looks good.
Z
23:18
Zack
no. your database got corrupted. Probably you turned it off incorrectly at some point.
23:23
Deleted Account
so I need to clean the db and startover?
23:24
make prod-clean then make prod-restart , am I right?
23:35
Zack I noticed PhamHuong92/VeoMiner has released version 2.0 with new features such as specify wokerID of miner. Do your minepool surport version 2.0 and the workerID feature? Thanks
K
23:37
Kale
Who can tell the 1080's code
23:51
Deleted Account
Zack Still no luck with
make prod-clean then make prod-restart , will try start from git clone later today
M
23:59
Minieep21
PhamHuong miner 2.0 has lower hashrate with 1080ti than version 1.5
23:59
Same settings
14 May 2018
M
00:01
Minieep21
Been testing different settings, still far off the 4.4 gh/s of version 1.5
David Iach invited David Iach
Z
DK
00:16
Deve Kliman
is there some place that shows a price? what is the difficulty doing now?
Z
00:51
Zack
In reply to this message
people trade on discord.
you can see the estimate for next difficulty here: http://mveo.net/
you can see the estimate for next difficulty here: http://mveo.net/
00:53
Deleted Account
HI Zack , I am playing around with your mingpool , I just set the pubkey in
apps/amoveo_mining_pool/src/config.erl to the pubkey of the amoveo node running on the same machine. Is it possible that is the reason I get die msgs?
Z
00:54
Zack
you are supposed to change the pubkey, that should not cause a problem.
Is your amoveo full node synced?
Is your amoveo full node synced?
MF
00:55
Mr Flintstone
whoa
00:55
lots of spends
00:55
Deleted Account
Yes, my question is, should I make sure the Pubkey settings of pool is same to the Pubkey of node?
MF
Z
00:57
In reply to this message
The mining pools keep lowering their minimum payout, which means there are more txs per block.
00:58
Deleted Account
Oh I see , so I can just set the pubkey to a account that I fully controlled, it does not need to be same to the address of running node?
00:59
And here I am little confused, the pool needs to pay to miners, if I only set up the pubkey, how to sign those txs to pay the miners?
Deleted invited Deleted Account
OS
01:04
Oleksandr Sorokin
Hello, everyone. Have a nice day. When do you plan to enter exchanges?
01:05
And the most stabile miner for now, my opinion, from veopool.pw
01:05
Or 1.5
MF
OK
Z
01:10
Zack
In reply to this message
the pool pays from veo controlled by the full node.
In order to avoid over-paying, the first 10 blocks send some veo to the account in config.erl
Then when you are finished running the mining pool, for the last 10 blocks you are supposed to pay this money back to the miners. Look at the readme for more details.
In order to avoid over-paying, the first 10 blocks send some veo to the account in config.erl
Then when you are finished running the mining pool, for the last 10 blocks you are supposed to pay this money back to the miners. Look at the readme for more details.
IP
01:11
for me it justs starts using intel hd and that's kind of it
01:11
could not find any readme/guide to fix it
01:15
Deleted Account
Zack Oh I see, thank you ! So I can not run a pool with a node with 0 balance of veo?
Z
01:16
Zack
you can run a pool with 0 balance.
You wont pay out any rewards until you have enough veo to afford it
You wont pay out any rewards until you have enough veo to afford it
Cuong Tran invited Cuong Tran
OS
01:20
Oleksandr Sorokin
In reply to this message
Amd seems make no sense comparing to nvidia, but yes. 4x470 gives 400mh each
IP
MH
01:27
Mandel Hoff
In reply to this message
Try sync kernel as 1 or maybe run each gpu command in a separate window to force some parallel hashing. Not sure what blocksize and numblocks to suggest though.
IP
01:39
I P
Pham Huong released veominer 2.0
OS
M
01:42
Can't figure out best settings for 1080 ti. version 1.5 works better for me
MH
01:55
Mandel Hoff
Works for me. Have to set args like n=256 and b=256 now but they can be in any order. I have to set kv=2 or kv=1 for faster hashing on the k80 that I tested, but the kv=3 default is faster for some cards I have too.
M
02:00
Minieep21
Are you seeing an improvement?
MH
02:03
Mandel Hoff
Like 2% on average across my cards. Feels a little less laggy too but maybe I'm imagining that. Can't measure that.
Alexey zl invited Alexey zl
T
02:44
Temüjin
Hey guys. Where should I turn if I want to buy some otc?
S
02:45
Sy
discord
Z
T
02:47
Temüjin
Ty
Deleted invited Deleted Account
M
03:09
Minieep21
https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b
Good read on Asics and Bitmain. Sia devs are quite impressive in their achievement of developing their own custom Asics. Good case study for Amoveo's future?
Good read on Asics and Bitmain. Sia devs are quite impressive in their achievement of developing their own custom Asics. Good case study for Amoveo's future?
03:09
Scary how much power Bitmain has. Hope they don't 51% Amoveo...
IP
03:10
I P
In reply to this message
well if Zack is able to arrange VEO asic miners befor bitmain does it...
03:11
Deleted Account
is Amoveo core or memory intensive ?
IP
M
03:11
Minieep21
It is a race indeed. Problem is that the only way to find out is if they suddenly unveil Amoveo asics and we see a sudden drop in hashrate.
IP
M
03:12
Minieep21
If I'm not mistaken, hashrate for Monero dropped significantly after asic discovery
S
03:26
Sy
monero switched algo...or was it some other coin
03:26
hashrate dropped at least 50% after that
Deleted joined group by link from Group
03:29
Deleted Account
@potat_o Is there any chance to be able to request a one-timee earlier withdrawal ? <3
M
03:47
Minieep21
In reply to this message
Yea I think you're right. They switched algo and 50% or so of hashrate dropped because it was ASICs
03:48
So there were equihash ASICs for almost a year without anyone realising
S
03:48
Sy
yep
03:48
that article is quite interesting tbh
03:48
and it confirms what i know, it takes about a year and alot of money to make an asic
03:49
at least a year that is
M
03:50
Minieep21
Need to poach those Sia devs for Amoveo ASIC development 😂
03:51
9 months of development would be great
IP
03:56
but unless veo is like 1bln market cap i don't think they'll scratch their asses
J
04:20
Jim
This is good: sha256 is “easy”, making competitors more inefficient than bitmain still competitive. There’s a method to zack’s madness
IP
04:22
make it as easy and simple as it can be
Jax invited Jax
05:22
Deleted Account
How does one properly send from the wallet on the website? wont allow me to click "send" :P
MF
05:24
Mr Flintstone
what website
MF
05:27
Mr Flintstone
does veoscan say you have veo?
K
07:39
Kale
AP2 Under ddos?
K
07:59
Kale
WTS Veo large amount,PM me your offer
IP
09:58
JT
10:10
John T.
hey guys, how do i transfer coin , i have my wallet and private key, any web/software to use to trasnfer?
IP
10:12
if you do not trust- set up your own node and use it
J
10:13
Jim
Quick note for veoscan: delete_account should probably show balance of deleted account in amount if that info is obtainable. Or maybe it was just designed this way?
10:18
There should also be a note on the account page that sync_mode:normal() is needed for tx to be actually put in pool and broadcast. Since that’s not the default, it’s confusing
10:19
Just notes on how to make the full node more usable
10:20
Attempting to sign tx without sync mode normal should produce an error/warning message
Deleted invited Deleted Account
Z
10:30
In reply to this message
looks like you have a corrupted database. so you need to resync all the blocks.
10:31
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/getting-started/sync.md
Yes, it explains this in the instructions for syncing.
Yes, it explains this in the instructions for syncing.
10:50
Deleted Account
Zack I deployed a fresh new VPS on vultr running Ubuntu 18.04, installed brand new Amoveo node, still get the die message after I connected a mining pool to it.
10:50
10:51
Z
10:51
Zack
is the amoveo full node synced?
10:52
Deleted Account
10:52
yes , as you can see in my first screenshot, api:height() and block:height() both returned with 21535, and sync:start() returned with noting to sync.
10:59
If you want, I can give you the root password of that VPS in private chat, since it has nothing but a Amoveo node on it.
Z
11:26
Deleted Account
I did not do keys unlock operation, will try now
Z
11:40
Zack
I've been thinking about the economics of making Asics.
Let's say it takes 1 year to develop the asic.
In 1 year, I expect Amoveo's price to increase a lot.
It just seems like, at this point in time, you would make more profit by buying and holding Veo instead of building Asics.
Let's say it takes 1 year to develop the asic.
In 1 year, I expect Amoveo's price to increase a lot.
It just seems like, at this point in time, you would make more profit by buying and holding Veo instead of building Asics.
12:16
Deleted Account
So why are you intrested in building asics? just to raise
funds?
funds?
0
12:18
0xminion
In reply to this message
https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b
You should have a look at this= =Interesting read for the state of ASIC in crypto
You should have a look at this= =Interesting read for the state of ASIC in crypto
12:36
Deleted Account
Zack I tried the unlock command, have not seen effect over die message. My operation is :
1 git clone the node
2 make prod-restart
3 load my own account using keys:load() command
4 keys:unlock().
5 sync_mode:quick().
6 sync:start().
7 when api:height() and block:height() returns same number, run sync_mode:normal().
8 git clone the mine pool
9 run sh start.sh then sh attach.sh
10 the node console will echo every miniutes or so [ trie died!died!potential block died!] and the console of mine pool alse echos [first failure mode]
1 git clone the node
2 make prod-restart
3 load my own account using keys:load() command
4 keys:unlock().
5 sync_mode:quick().
6 sync:start().
7 when api:height() and block:height() returns same number, run sync_mode:normal().
8 git clone the mine pool
9 run sh start.sh then sh attach.sh
10 the node console will echo every miniutes or so [ trie died!died!potential block died!] and the console of mine pool alse echos [first failure mode]
J
12:46
Jordan
Is amoveopool2 still down or being attacked? If I try to mine to it I get segmentation fault error. but if it switch to different pool it's fine
12:54
Super odd situation happened for me just now. I accidentally pulled the power on my rig and then after I wasn't able to mine anymore. I am using Ubuntu on an Nvidia rig. With veocl miner that was directed at amoveopool2.com:80/work. It had been working all weekend until after this happened. Now in getting the segmentation fault error, but if I switch the pool it works. I swapped back to windows and veominer1.5 is working fine.
IP
13:32
I P
magic people vodoo people😂😂
LB
13:35
Luke B
NBA playoff market is live if anyone is interested in betting on it: http://168.62.52.179:8080/explorer.html
Crypt0mata invited Crypt0mata
IP
LB
IP
13:42
I P
actually, why don't people open markets to bet on bitcoin price at specific dates? like futures
13:42
i mean i love sports but bitcoin is kind of more important to crypto people=)))
resinzz invited resinzz
M
14:51
Minieep21
I'd bet that BTC falls below $3000 by the end of 2018
S
14:58
Sy
bold bet
14:58
open up an oracle ^^
15:07
Deleted Account
if anyone has found setup for vegas and want to share I'm listening
15:30
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
if you win, the veo may fall with btc, then you win nothing
S
15:31
Sy
veo doesnt care about other coins yet
M
15:32
Minieep21
My goal is BTC and VEO accumulation, don't care about the price of either
15:33
Deleted Account
the fact i see now is every coin will fall if btc crash in market
S
16:05
Sy
aaand we have a fork
16:05
16:06
took 10 minutes to sort itself out, thats okay i guess
Piotr G invited Piotr G
EP
17:06
Evans Pan
ap2 down？
OK
17:09
O K
Another ddos
B
17:09
Ben
;(
OK
17:09
O K
Hopefully better prepared this time, working on it
B
17:10
Ben
bastards
IP
OK
17:10
O K
By the end of the day I hope to have this pretty much locked down, we'll see
EP
17:11
Evans Pan
you have to assume its gonna be a regular attack
OK
VV
17:20
Vladimir Vorkachev
Is ap2 down as pool?
17:20
Or only as web?
S
17:25
Sy
since the pool is running on port80 aswell, both
V
17:25
Vitaliy
AP2 down?
VV
17:30
Vladimir Vorkachev
do we have any eta to fix attack?
B
17:30
Ben
yes, ASAP
VV
17:30
Vladimir Vorkachev
why cloudflare doesnt help?
B
17:30
Ben
no cloudflare in place?
OK
17:30
O K
I'm working on it
B
VV
17:31
Vladimir Vorkachev
seems its a smart attack, not just a foold
17:31
flood*
G
IP
17:40
I P
In reply to this message
same here, but i think i will sell ~25% of what i've mined because i need to pay my dentist to fix my teeth this month=))
M
17:40
Minieep21
Hold out a little, get golden teeth 😂
IP
ŽM
Tt Tirol invited Tt Tirol
ŽM
17:46
Živojin Mirić
Animation
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116.3 KB
IP
ŽM
17:47
Živojin Mirić
I know, I'm joking man
B
17:52
Branc
wts 3 veo --> 1 eth
S
17:56
Sy
this ddos is so pointless, the diff doesnt change, others dont find more blocks...i dont get it
17:56
it just slows down blockspeed but with such a short timeframe it will never have an impact on the 2000 blocks that are used to calculate the next diff
A
S
17:57
Sy
yeah but im not doing the ddos so whats the point?
17:57
me and zack are the only one "benefiting" from this
17:57
and dont tell me its an idealistic ddos...
17:57
correct, i am the only one 😅 zack doesnt take fee
IP
17:57
I P
i think smb just send a message that we need to spread hashpower
S
17:58
Sy
expensive message
IP
17:58
I P
i will do that once i get physical acces to my miners
S
17:58
Sy
although i have no idea how much you have to pay for a ddos....
OK
17:59
O K
back up
S
17:59
Sy
wb
A
S
18:00
Sy
lasted only one jhour
C
18:00
CryptoMach
is the ddos still happening?
18:00
my miners are crashing...
S
18:01
Sy
"A DDoS attack lasting 10,800 seconds will cost the client $60, or approximately $20 per hour"
18:01
kaspersky research ^^
18:03
Deleted Account
It depends on the traffic volume
S
18:08
Sy
thats for 125 gbps
K
18:18
Kale
AP2has down again
DS
K
18:37
Kale
Who will do this fucking
18:37
son of bitch
18:44
Back up?
18:45
Deleted Account
any idea why only one of my vegas does 4.3gh while the rest run at 2.4-2gh
VV
18:55
Vladimir Vorkachev
strange amoveo cuda miner cannot connect to any of pools
18:56
seems like network is dead
18:56
can someone confirm such a behavior
18:56
pools are online but no new tasks are generated
18:57
Deleted Account
Which pool? Our pool is online and we have active miners: http://amoveo.noncense.tech/
VV
18:57
Vladimir Vorkachev
i have tried yours as ell
18:57
well*
18:57
will look for issues on my side then
C
18:58
Chris 🍞
In reply to this message
maybe its someones response because of zack his stance on attacking networks
18:59
Deleted Account
Could be, but it's outbound connections and they should be allowed by any normal router. Are you including the port number 4001 in the pool URL?
Like this: http://amoveo.noncense.tech:4001
Like this: http://amoveo.noncense.tech:4001
IP
18:59
i need muh hacker gear
18:59
VV
19:01
May be those pools are hosted on AWS
19:02
Which is partially blocked in Russia because of telegram
19:03
I will play with telnet
S
19:04
Sy
mine is hosted in germany...
19:04
Deleted Account
Noncense is not hosted on AWS
EP
19:09
Evans Pan
its quite common now. Led pool will be attacked sooner or later.
S
19:10
Sy
most likely, yes
MF
19:18
Mr Flintstone
if they are ddosing right now to attack difficulty increase they don’t understand how amoveos new diff is calcd
19:19
the diff at block 22k is already determined