Amoveo ♥🧿
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3 April 2018
OK
04:00
O K
Hooray
04:00
Zack are you working on the changes for that? I can have a go at it
04:00
You probably already finished it though
Z
04:01
Zack
the tests passed, I am about to update the server
04:02
now I have to run more tests. I forgot to save something before running the first time.
04:09
http://159.89.106.253:8080/explorer.html
ok, I pushed the update.
ok, I pushed the update.
Z
06:09
Zack
Maybe the biggest advantage of writing this exchange is that I am updating the amoveo api to make it easy to build exchanges.
M
MF
Z
09:24
Deleted Account
Original exchange is great, and I'm looking forward to atomic swap. Amoveo adoption by not relying on centralized exchanges would be very cool.
Z
09:25
Zack
yes, atomic swap would be nice
09:26
the bitcoin side seems fairly complicated still.
For example, to prevent signature malleability, you have to make a bitcoin contract that you sign both ways.
For example, to prevent signature malleability, you have to make a bitcoin contract that you sign both ways.
09:31
Deleted Account
So, starting from exchange and reuse the codebase later for atomic swap is good strategy.
Z
09:32
Zack
yes, that is the plan
09:33
Deleted Account
great :)
C
12:18
CryptoMach
hi guys - my GeForce GTX 1070 are producing 1.59 Gh/s and my GeForce GTX 1080 Ti are producing 2.32 Gh/s
Does this sound about right? Or are there any tips to help improve this...?
Does this sound about right? Or are there any tips to help improve this...?
N
12:29
1080ti should 3+ gh
C
12:29
CryptoMach
that's what I thought
I
12:39
Iridescence
you probably need to tune your gpu params
12:59
Deleted Account
Zack - do you think http://proofofwork.news/ would be a decent place to feature amoveo?
l
13:25
linky
how much supply is in circulation right now?
13:28
Deleted Account
about 16154 veo
C
l
13:29
HEY @Crypto_Mach
I
13:30
Iridescence
haha
13:30
sounds like a reunion
S
13:42
curl -i -d '["block", N]' NODE_URL
13:43
You can look data order here.
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_core/src/records.hrl
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_core/src/records.hrl
18:39
Deleted Account
What's the development of AMOVEO in the future focus on?
Z
18:53
Zack
In reply to this message
There is a todo list in the docs a with many short term goals.
Long term goals:
Atomic swap with bitcoin, combinatorial markets, market optimized for insured crowd funding.
Long term goals:
Atomic swap with bitcoin, combinatorial markets, market optimized for insured crowd funding.
CB
19:16
CeloStarter Bandits
Open Dex for Amoveo Markets
Z
19:17
Zack
The amoveo markets are already trust free. They don't need to be decentralized.
19:26
Deleted Account
can you estimate how long will it take?
Z
19:28
Zack
No.
I don't plan ahead so much, because then it restricts what I will do.
I need to be free to adjust my strategy at any moment.
Today I am planning on continuing to work on the centralized bitcoin Veo exchange.
I don't plan ahead so much, because then it restricts what I will do.
I need to be free to adjust my strategy at any moment.
Today I am planning on continuing to work on the centralized bitcoin Veo exchange.
21:28
Deleted Account
Zack i have my key.db and i want to make a transfer with amoveos. i thought key.db was the private key and i tried with amoveopool but it didnt work. how i can get my privatekey, or what is the easiest way to transfer? any easy comand from the full node?
Z
21:29
Zack
keys.db is an encrypted copy of your private key. It works from inside of a full node.
21:29
so turn on your full node, and make the transfer.
21:29
Deleted Account
with a comand? api:send... or somthing like this?
S
21:40
Sy
api:spend
Z
21:46
Deleted Account
great! thanks both. api:spend(To, Amount). one question, amount 100000000 = 1 VEO, is ok?
S
21:46
Sy
would be easier if api:spend would accept the base64 string and encode decode internal
21:46
i mean the pubkey itself
21:46
Z
S
21:47
Sy
do api:balance(). first, made it easier for me with all the not showing decimals
Z
21:53
Zack
It is better to use "delete_account" if you don't intend to use the account again. it sends all the veo and gives you are reward for cleaning up after yourself.
B
22:03
Ben
how much is the reward?
22:03
i might enter the cleaning business :P
22:05
Deleted Account
api:off(). halt(). git pull make prod-restart P1 = lists:nth(3, peers:all()). sync:get_headers(P1). sync.start() and nothing even with make clean. it doesnt start syncing. i have tried almost everything i have seen in docs, am i loosing something?
Z
22:08
Deleted Account
no, api:heith() is working
22:08
is 129xx
Z
22:09
Zack
then follow the directions on this page: https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/getting-started/sync.md
22:10
Once you have more than 0 headers, you can
22:16
sync:start().
S
22:33
Sy
ah btw, when i add myself to peers and trade with the others
22:33
do they propagate through the nodes or do i have to trade with every single one?
Z
22:34
Zack
In reply to this message
Does what propagate?
List of peers propagates, blocks propagate, headers propagate, txs propagate
List of peers propagates, blocks propagate, headers propagate, txs propagate
S
22:35
Sy
okay
22:36
it only auto syncs if i add myself to peers and trade those with others
Z
22:36
Zack
If you aren't in the list of peers, then no one can send you anything.
22:37
Because they don't know your url
S
22:44
Sy
yes so i trade peers with another
22:44
does he trade with another so after a while everyone knows my node?
Z
22:44
Zack
Yes the list of peers propagates
S
22:46
Sy
yep i know...but you didnt know what i was talking about exactly 😅
4 April 2018
Z
01:35
Zack
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amoveo/comments/89g4wt/veominer_now_opencl_both_amd_and_nvidia_gpu/?utm_source=reddit-android
Can anyone test this amd miner?
Can anyone test this amd miner?
01:41
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
is that time to sell NVIDIA cards and buy in AMD cards
Z
01:42
Zack
I don't know. Someone should test it.
01:45
Deleted Account
what kind of miner is this?
I
01:49
Iridescence
Food miner
IP
02:18
looks like gpu selection is not working
02:19
02:20
intel is gpu0, i've selected gpus 1 and 2 which are rx580s, nothing happens
OK
02:23
O K
I'm testing now too
02:24
Try ALL for gpu
IP
02:26
i believe it is because of intel hd
02:35
Deleted Account
ALL worked for me when I set mine up
OK
02:35
O K
Are you running any AMD
02:35
Deleted Account
No strictly NVIDIA
OK
02:36
O K
Is 1.1 opencl only software performing better than prev edition?
IP
OK
02:36
O K
I'm having trouble even getting openCL installed. Typical
02:37
Ah of course
IP
OK
02:39
O K
Hard drive is full, pagefile.sys is enormous
02:39
Need to disable it
02:39
thank goodness for windirstat / baobab
MF
03:21
Mr Flintstone
Phamhuong92 is in this chat right?
S
C K joined group by link from Group
Z
04:09
Zack
He says it only works for the first gpu for now on reddit.
CK
04:27
C K
Hi, I'm just getting started but is there a guide on setting up the wallet and miner. Kinda confused
Z
04:28
Zack
To "set up the wallet". Just open the light node url.
S
04:28
Sy
yep, easiest way, dont bother with the node
Z
04:29
Zack
The miner you choose will come with installation instructions.
S
04:29
Sy
if you got nvidia, if not, stop right here
CK
04:37
C K
Awesome thanks
OK
05:39
O K
It looks like he updated miner with platform ID parameter. So presumably won't work with mix of Nvidia+AMD or will need to launch two instances
05:39
I'll try again with AMD soon
MF
05:45
Mr Flintstone
19 top height peers
05:47
anyone have the median block timestamp of the first 1000 blocks of this retargeting period?
05:48
trying to get a sense of how quick the next median needs to be for the diff to increase
05:48
soon is probably a better word than quick
Z
05:50
Zack
http://159.65.120.84:8080/explorer.html
look up 12500.
I bet that none of the miners are messing with the time stamps, so the middle one should be the median.
look up 12500.
I bet that none of the miners are messing with the time stamps, so the middle one should be the median.
05:52
We are at 6 minutes per block now. I guess that difficulty wasn't too high.
05:53
looks like it has been about 3.5 days so far
05:54
If the period between the 2 medians is less than 6.9 days, then the difficulty goes up.
MF
05:55
Mr Flintstone
thanks
05:55
so looks like diff is going up
05:55
knock on wood
Z
05:56
Zack
If the difficulty went down by more than a factor of 4, that would be a problem.
If it takes more than 25 days to get to the next median, that would be bad.
Anything less than 25 days is good.
If it takes more than 25 days to get to the next median, that would be bad.
Anything less than 25 days is good.
S
06:23
Sy
can i get the block mined by via api?
Z
06:23
Zack
what?
S
06:24
Sy
lookup_block
Z
06:24
Zack
the external api lets you download any blocks. That is how blocks are shared between nodes.
S
06:24
Sy
whats the command?
Z
06:25
Zack
{block, 10, 10000} gets 10 blocks from 9990 to 10000.
06:25
curl -i -d '["block", 10, 10000]'
S
06:26
Sy
curl -i -d '["block", 10, 10000]' http://localhost:8081/
HTTP/1.1 500 Internal Server Error
server: Cowboy
date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 22:26:28 GMT
content-length: 0
HTTP/1.1 500 Internal Server Error
server: Cowboy
date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 22:26:28 GMT
content-length: 0
Z
06:27
Zack
8081 is internal.
06:27
8080 is external.
S
06:27
Sy
["error"]
06:27
xD
06:27
but http 200
Z
06:28
Zack
does your node have 10000 blocks?
S
06:28
Sy
really?
06:28
you established that i am running bewc and you are asking me if the node is synced?
06:28
yes it is
OK
06:29
O K
3 x AMD cards are mining for me
S
06:29
Sy
not bad
Z
06:30
Zack
I am having trouble with this api too
OK
06:30
O K
The hashrate is not ideal
S
Z
06:30
Zack
nevermind. I got it. I was using 8081
S
06:30
Sy
exact same command?
Z
06:30
Zack
If it was broken, then nodes wouldn't be able to sync.
06:30
curl -i -d '["blocks", 1, 1]' http://localhost:8080
S
06:31
Sy
curl -i -d '["block", 1, 1]' http://localhost:8080
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
server: Cowboy
date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 22:30:55 GMT
content-length: 9
content-type: application/octet-stream
Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *
["error"]
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
server: Cowboy
date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 22:30:55 GMT
content-length: 9
content-type: application/octet-stream
Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *
["error"]
06:31
odd
06:31
ah blocks
Z
06:31
Zack
oh, I wrote "block" before. my mistake.
S
06:31
Sy
coinbase is the miner?
Z
06:32
Zack
yes.
All the external api commands are defined here:
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_http/src/ext_handler.erl
All the external api commands are defined here:
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_http/src/ext_handler.erl
MF
OK
06:32
O K
I'm still playing with the params ,but like 0.5 GH/s on Vega 64 / 56
06:33
Hey, it's better than nothing
MF
06:33
Mr Flintstone
for sure
06:33
maybe someone will open source some upgrades
S
06:34
Sy
hmm where is the timestamp...
Z
S
OK
06:37
O K
Z
06:37
Zack
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_http/priv/external_web/lookup_block.js#L72
Here is JS code to transform it to a normal format.
Here is JS code to transform it to a normal format.
S
06:37
Sy
ah...elapsed seconds since genesis block?
Z
06:38
Zack
Yeah, something like that.
S
06:38
Sy
ill look into it tomorrow, its past midnight
OK
06:51
Wow, these are kicking ass
06:52
So, if they are mismatched cards, you need to run another instance (probably defeats the CPU savings)
06:52
But right now I'm getting almost 3GH/s on each Vega, with 256 256 numblocks/blocksize
Z
06:53
Zack
great
06:59
Deleted Account
anyone testing rx588
Z
07:00
Zack
I am guessing hashrate will increase a lot now that amd works
OK
07:01
Deleted Account
is thay vega64 you tested?
OK
07:01
O K
64 and 56
07:02
Wow, power consumption is way higher. I need to flash a powersave rom on these babies
07:04
Deleted Account
if rx 588 reached 5gh/s, I will get one
08:25
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
what kind of heat are you generating with this? higher than nvidia?
OK
08:29
O K
Seems like it
08:30
I haven't got things tuned in yet, I guess I can't flash unsigned roms on vegas
D
K
10:45
Kale
How to sell EVO？
Z
10:55
Zack
I was working on the problem with the mining pool where we would pay people who mined orphaned blocks, and I noticed that if you publish 2 txs at once, sometimes one gets dropped.
I found a problem in block_absorber where the list of txs got flipped, and it caused some of them to get dropped.
I fixed it, so now txs aren't getting dropped so much.
I found a problem in block_absorber where the list of txs got flipped, and it caused some of them to get dropped.
I fixed it, so now txs aren't getting dropped so much.
JS
10:56
Jon Snow
10:56
@icekale EVO? Here you go
K
10:56
Kale
do you accept escrow?
Z
K
10:59
Kale
Thank u
11:01
Deleted Account
How can I miner veo?
11:01
Eco
11:01
Evo
Z
11:01
Zack
Veo.
11:15
I fixed the mining pool, it no longer pays for orphans.
S
12:11
Sy
👍
12:43
Deleted Account
nice
S
14:03
Sy
do we know who BE72Ad is? noncepool?
14:06
Deleted Account
Can I buy Veo?
B
14:10
Ben
you can
14:11
if you have 200$ each and i sell it to you
D
14:12
Deleted Account
it is up to $200?
B
14:12
Ben
if you get it lower, grab it
B
14:13
Ben
i dont sell below that
14:13
Deleted Account
i just sold 120 yestoday
14:13
Deleted Account
It's your opinion.. : )
B
14:13
Ben
120? lol idiot
S
14:14
Sy
haha 120 is a steal
14:14
i got offers up to 165$
14:14
so yes, selling at 200 :D
14:14
Deleted Account
😂
B
14:14
Ben
and as soon as the AMD RAPE begins diff will explode
14:14
so happy days ahead
14:15
Deleted Account
i see the diff increase a lot
N
S
14:16
Sy
wait for the first china warehouse to join, only peanuts so far
B
14:21
Ben
yeah i would guess all in all we have atm not more then 1000 Rigs mining
14:21
that is nothing
14:21
a mid size china farm has 10X more
S
14:23
Sy
mid sized xD
14:23
but you are right...
14:24
mine them while you can
14:27
Deleted Account
this will always be the challenge in OTC markets
14:27
price discovery
AB
14:44
Asda Bayor
whats the market cap at the moment? roughly
S
14:53
Sy
2m
D
15:31
Denis
In reply to this message
Are you running separate mining process for each GPU, or all GPUs under one process? Asking because separate miners working good for me, but when i'm trying to run single process for all cards each card's hashrate drops six times.
IP
S
15:46
Sy
seems down
15:46
mining port might still be up tho
IP
16:07
Deleted Account
I'm not getting a reply when running:
$ curl -d '["mining_data", "pubkey"]' http://amoveopool2.com/work
$ curl -d '["mining_data", "pubkey"]' http://amoveopool2.com/work
16:11
when lambo?
D
17:15
Deleted Account
Pool2 still down ?
S
17:17
Sy
probably restarting right now, getting a 503
IP
17:18
I P
still down
17:18
is there any backup pool with good hashrate?
17:18
i really think that failover feature would be great to have in a miner
S
17:20
Sy
zacks is the next pool
signingoff joined group by link from Group
IP
S
17:27
Sy
the page is all the stats there are, welcome to zacks world
Z
17:27
Zack
S
17:27
Sy
enter your address
Z
17:57
Zack
Hashrate is at all time high
18:04
http://159.89.106.253:8080/explorer.html
I changed my bets in the market.
I changed my bets in the market.
18:09
Deleted Account
Zack Is there an easy way to get hash of a transaction in given block?
I would like to display it in block explorer.
I would like to display it in block explorer.
Z
18:18
Zack
In reply to this message
Even if you had the hash of a transaction, there is nothing useful that you could do with such a value.
256 random bits.
256 random bits.
18:23
Deleted Account
I thought It might be useful to lookup specific transaction. Anyway thanks.
Z
18:24
Zack
you can look up transactions with a full node by address of the person who sent or received funds.
IP
OK
18:29
O K
Problem was fixed within about 10 minutes of the first report to my emergency email address. Please PM me if you'd like the address. It bypasses do not disturb on my phone and wakes me up.
MH
18:30
Mandel Hoff
Great work! 👍
S
OK
19:15
O K
In reply to this message
No worries, I'm going to set something up a little more automated today 😅
19:22
Deleted Account
is this an amoveo feature?
S
19:22
Sy
kickban
19:23
Deleted Account
;)
19:25
It's interesting that total hashrate didn't lower when amoveopool2 went down for quite some time. https://jimhsu.github.io/amoveo-stats/
S
19:26
Sy
i think those stats are pretty much evened out
19:26
check the light red dotted line, thats the actual hashrate
19:26
the big red line is the median
19:26
around 2 th went away
19:29
Deleted Account
I can't see it dropping tbh
19:30
If it dropped 2 th, we should see a dotted line go down to 2 th
S
19:30
Sy
not if the dotted line was up at 6...
19:31
19:31
Deleted Account
so who makes up the rest of the 4 th?
S
19:31
Sy
other pools :)
IP
19:32
I P
there is a rumor about a big private pool=)
19:32
Deleted Account
I know Sy has large hashrate, but I thought he didn't want more than 50% of network hashrate
S
19:33
Sy
im not alone tho
19:33
blocks are being mined bei 4 addresses right now
19:34
zack, av2, me and someone else
19:36
Deleted Account
Alright. I checked some days ago and it seemed amoveopool2 found about 85% of all blocks. I just expected, based on that, the graph would show a larger impact
OK
19:43
O K
Things have changed very dramatically in the last few days. We find 2 in 10 or so
19:48
Deleted Account
which pool mined more blocks now?
19:50
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Are you sure about that? You found 4 out of the last 5 blocks.
MH
20:48
Mandel Hoff
I moved my GPU over to that opencl miner. It seems about 6% faster for Nvidia 750/1050/1060 models. It's >40% faster on K80s for whatever reason. Optimal numblocks value appears slightly higher than my CUDA code for most cards. The memory controller load is near 0 and it runs hotter, so clearly it's doing work far more efficient somehow.
20:49
Deleted Account
good news
IP
21:05
I P
was anyone able to run it on amd?
OK
21:05
O K
Yes
21:05
I'm running all AMD now
IP
OK
21:06
O K
Run a separate instance for each GPU if they are different models
21:06
Just do one at a time
21:06
Also, 1.2 came out I think after we were trying yesterday
IP
21:06
I P
did you have to install that additional opencl?
21:07
modern amd drivers come already with opencl.. so i did not install that one
OK
21:07
O K
Ah, I did install it yes, but I don't know if I had to or not. Did you try the updated 1.2? 1.1 did not work for me
21:08
Try one GPU per console
IP
21:08
I P
1.1 did not work, will try 1.2
MH
21:16
Mandel Hoff
The 1.2 has a new Platform ID argument near the end of the list. @potat_o , did you have to set that to 1 for your AMDs?
OK
21:17
O K
I did set it to one, again not sure if I had to though
IP
OK
21:26
O K
How many GPU types do you have?
21:26
Intel, nvidia, amd?
IP
OK
21:28
O K
Don't use 'all'
21:29
just do one at a time
21:29
In separate prompts
IP
21:30
I P
same thing
OK
21:32
O K
Weird... did you try installing the openCL he provided?
21:33
I'm pretty sure intel HD graphics is your mobo graphics output, I don't think it's related to your hard drive
21:33
Could be wrong
IP
OK
21:33
O K
Did you install the newer version of the same thing?
MH
21:34
Mandel Hoff
Get work exceptions would probably be like "pool down" or "no http/internet" issues.
IP
21:34
I P
In reply to this message
well that should come with drivers, that rig runs claymore which is also opencl
OK
21:35
O K
In theory I suppose
21:35
Do you run your monitor off GPU or mobo?
IP
21:36
anyways, that link he provided was for win8.1 and not win10
OK
21:36
O K
It worked for my windows 10
21:36
But, maybe you could uninstall Intel graphics drivers then
21:36
I would start with his listed dependencies though
21:36
Mine don't show up as "ellesmere" the memory brand
21:37
mine show up as gfx900
MH
21:37
Mandel Hoff
Do you have port 80 open for http? I'd guess other claymore miners use a different port for stratum+tcp and not port 80.
IP
21:41
wow, started working lol
MH
21:41
Mandel Hoff
Did you have to make any changes or just started getting work?
IP
21:42
I P
nope, just waited.... strange as fck to be honest
21:42
and the speed.. 683mh/s per rx580 seems very bad
21:42
Deleted Account
how many hashrate for 1080ti with new miner?
OK
MH
21:43
Mandel Hoff
Tune the block size and numb blocks. @potat_o may have recommendations. The defaults are really low for high end cards. The defaults look copy/pasted from my cuda code.
OK
21:43
O K
I'm doing 256 1024
IP
OK
21:44
O K
You'll have to play around with it, try 256 256. If it doesn't hrow error spam it's not too high
21:44
Also are you using all now or still 1 x 1
S
21:46
Deleted Account
sy is geting most of the blocks!
21:46
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
S
21:47
Sy
im not sure which hashrate estimate is off tho
21:48
according to my stats i dont run more than 33% of the net hashrate
MH
21:48
Mandel Hoff
No - I was just thinking the "getwork exceptions" from his screenshot might be caused by http blocking. Perhaps an Antivirus software was blocking it. I have AVG installed, and it seems to halt these miners the first time I run them. Maybe something like an AV was blocking the http too.
S
MH
21:49
Mandel Hoff
In reply to this message
Are you using Zack's pplns pool branch? Maybe that has some additional efficiencies not on the master branch.
S
21:49
Sy
no
21:49
im running nVeoPool
MH
S
21:50
Sy
well the miners submit shares, valid shares get recorded, invalid shares with wrong nonce get discarded - do you count them?
MH
21:53
Mandel Hoff
There is a minimum difficulty target that's pretty low. Anything above that gets credited. An absolute min is good for avoiding spam. "Too low" still happens when bhash changes on the node, which causes garbage solutions.
S
21:54
Sy
that wasn the question...but nevermind, doesnt matter
IP
21:58
I P
well, i'm getting 1.03ghs per rx580. is it too low?
21:58
running 1200mhz clock
OK
22:00
O K
It sounds a little low, you're still doing each card in its own prompt?
22:00
When I ran mine as 'all' they all ran at 1/3 hashrate
22:03
What nvidia card does a 580 compare to on other chains?
22:03
I used to get 29Mh/s or so on ethereum with a 580
IP
22:07
I P
In reply to this message
yeah. the fun part is 4 cards started working fast, other 2 are still in get work exception... holy crap
OK
22:07
O K
I wonder if it's the dev phoning home
22:08
We need a wiresharker
22:13
In reply to this message
It's much hotter, I'm slightly less than double the hashrate, but double the power. And it's toasty in here for sure
D
OK
22:19
O K
Maybe 1gh is good then idk
IP
OK
22:35
O K
1080 about 2 is good, 1.8 without overclock
IP
23:04
I P
well, any info on rx580 veo hashrate?
23:04
i am pulling 1ghs@1200mhz@0.93v
OK
23:17
O K
In reply to this message
If a RX 580 is between a 1070 and 1060, 1GH sounds within acceptable range. Try numblocks 2048
IP
OK
23:19
O K
256 1024 was no good?
IP
23:19
I P
did not try it, i tried 192 192 max
OK
23:19
O K
My AMDs take much higher values than Nvidia
23:20
I would at least try like 192 512
23:20
You'll know if it's too high it will spam errors very quickly
23:20
Just Ctrl C and adjust
IP
23:23
I P
wow 256 1024 got me to 1.27 from 1.03
OK
23:24
O K
👍
IP
23:25
I P
crtl-c crashed driver lol=)
23:25
btw what seeds do i need to choose so that there is no colision on nounces on multiple miners?
OK
23:26
O K
Ctrl C kills the process in the console
23:27
Longer, very dissimilar seeds are ideal, but I still get some collisions on the miners sometimes
IP
23:44
I P
with 1.3ghz i was able to pull 1.4ghs which is impressive but i don't know if i should burn my gpus that much to be honest
OK
23:51
O K
That's up to you, but they're workhorses. I say run em hot. Probably taking them on and offline is worse than steady consistent temp under 80c
5 April 2018
S
00:02
Sy
burn?
00:02
if they arent at full fan speed and throttling its what they are for
OK
linky invited Deleted Account
00:19
Deleted Account
Anyone else getting slow payouts from amoveopool2? I've been steadily gaining ground all day, until the last two hours I feel like I've been stuck at .56
00:23
Deleted Account
amoveopool2 is not dominating the minng now.
00:23
so it stopped growing
00:23
Deleted Account
MF
00:23
Mr Flintstone
I think they are like 20% of nethash?
00:24
Deleted Account
Showing 2.49Th/s 87 miners
00:24
Deleted Account
nice picture
OK
IP
00:25
I P
can't get veominar 1.2 run on my other rig with nv gpus and old core 2 duo. damn, it just crashes
OK
IP
00:27
and it crashes with 0 as the only detectable platformId is 1 on that rig
OK
00:28
O K
If it's an Nvidia rig, did you install opencl this time?
IP
00:29
i mean it works
00:29
but it is slower than madells miner and it uses a lot of cpu
00:29
and crashes if i try to run more than 1..
00:30
but that rig is horrible overall core2duo 2gb ram lol
OK
00:30
O K
Even Nvidia is running opencl now
00:31
But yeah it seems to be a RAM hungry miner
MH
00:33
Mandel Hoff
Yes, it seems like CUDA installs OpenCL magically. Lower the block size and num blocks on your nvidia box? It sounds like the AMD GPUs can take a much larger value pair for those arguments.
00:48
Deleted Account
so the new miner won't give AMD gpu a large advance?
IP
00:49
I P
In reply to this message
well rx580 is 1.38GHs at 1300 core clock and 256 1024 parameters which is kind of max i could get. gtx1060/6g is 1.4ghs
00:50
the only thing is that amd gpus are very common in mining
00:56
Deleted Account
I just need to say something more often
00:57
As soon as I mention my payouts being slow, it's like floodgates opened
OK
00:57
O K
I can assure you I touched nothing :p
00:57
Deleted Account
Lol
OK
00:57
O K
It's just the randomness of the confirmed blocks
IP
00:58
I P
looks like new miner is friendly to weak but new cpus
OK
00:58
O K
In reply to this message
I don't think there is a large advantage, people have the hardware they have. Both are good
00:59
My CPU is happy, but ram use relatively high
IP
00:59
I P
dual core pentium haswell is fine with 6 rx580 but core2 duo is getting rekt with 2x1070+2x1060
00:59
first rig has 4gb ram 2nd has 2gb
00:59
Deleted Account
I'm running a POS celeron
IP
01:00
I P
well i have additional 2gb ddr2 to put in but i'm not sure it will work lol
OK
01:00
O K
I'm also on a celeron
IP
01:00
I P
i just wish all my rigs had an i5 like my workstation=((
01:01
Deleted Account
This coin made me consider bumping up to a better CPU, but with the new, one window miner, I don't have to worry anymore :D
OK
01:16
O K
I'm pretty sure whoever this is http://70.133.222.59:8080 (cumming georgia) just needs to forward ports to stay in sync... they've been trying so hard too
01:16
Well, not that hard, but you know what I mean
M
Z
01:50
Zack
Flying fox is a github repository that I have not deleted.
01:51
I never launched it as a mainnet.
M
01:51
Mike
Ok. I just saw it mentioned in Tremback’s Universal Payment Channels paper
02:14
Deleted Account
Zack - how long did it take for you to develop this chain (including the elements you might had originally designed for ae but are being used here)? asking just out of curiosity
Z
02:43
Zack
I started working on this about 4 years ago.
Before ae or augur existed.
Before ae or augur existed.
MF
J
04:16
Jim
Not a perfect estimate as actual code finds median of each 1000 block period, then averages that
04:16
But with current trends, we may actually increase difficulty by a slight amount next round
04:20
Maybe 2500-3000?
MF
04:38
Mr Flintstone
hmm
04:39
what time zone are the block timestamps supposed to be?
04:39
12500 was 3/31 at 6:45 am
04:40
if block 13500 is at like 5 am on 4/7 then the diff won’t change
04:41
but if we assume 300 second blocks here on out, 13500 will be in about 24hrs
04:42
which is ~36 hrs away from 5 am on 4/7
04:42
so 6.9/5.4 * old diff should be new diff?
04:43
so like 2500
04:44
not sure if this is actually how it works
Z
S
04:46
Sy
timestamps are always GMT afaik
MF
04:48
Mr Flintstone
so +\- 200 from 2500 is my diff guess than
S
04:48
Sy
2 blocks within 5 minutes, gz zack
IP
06:18
I P
anyone else experiencing this? not valid share diff too low?
06:18
i'm getting a lot of there with amd rig
OK
06:18
O K
I get it too from time to time
MH
06:34
Mandel Hoff
That happens because you find a partial solution to a block hash that has expired. The 'new work' would have the updated block hash puzzle. The block hash refreshes about every 40 seconds on the Amoveo node, so this race condition happens occasionally.
07:59
Deleted Account
A minute ago (i knew my miner was starting to crash) I was seeing each 1070ti getting 500gh each lol
11:24
Deleted Account
["spend_tx", from_address, tx_nonce/height, fees, to_address, amount] Is this the correct data that needs to be signed using private key to create a spend transaction?
B
14:35
Ben
Hey Zack, we often talk only about thinks that don't work and see the Negativ aspects therefore here the opposite: Good Job with the Nodes and Stability improvements! looks like the solid Platform is build! Appreciate your hard Work!
14:35
Deleted Account
about time more folks get to know about this?
B
14:35
Ben
pssst ;)
14:45
Deleted Account
Amoveo survived first month, and node stability is really great. Thanks Zack.
S
15:51
Sy
that holders list shifted quite a bit
15:51
zack posted something different
15:51
looking good, thanks :)
15:51
will you add address transactions later?
15:52
Deleted Account
fuck - i am nowhere
15:52
Deleted Account
Top holder's balance is shifted because of recently mined balances, I guess
15:53
15:56
I'll add recent transactions per address etc later
S
15:59
Sy
From From? :)
16:00
about holders, first one should be zacks with over 2800 VEO but it isnt...
16:03
Deleted Account
Oh, that is probably because it collects addresses appeared in new transactions, then update their balances from full node. I will fix it.
S
16:07
Sy
ah makes sense
16:07
Deleted Account
and I fixed from from in tx page. thanks.
S
16:15
Sy
looking good
16:15
and you are already tracking the transactions per block, last step would be to add them to the pubkey page
16:15
so you can easily check if your pool is actually paying you or your trade went through
S
16:58
Sy
awesome
16:58
can you add amount to coinbase transactions?
17:01
height should be possible on those aswell
17:04
Deleted Account
Coinbase tx in blocks does not contain amount, maybe because it is determined by governance.
So it is a bit tricky. will do later.
So it is a bit tricky. will do later.
S
17:05
Sy
okay but block height should be available
17:07
Deleted Account
Yeah, updated now.
Z
17:30
Deleted Account
😄
S
17:42
Sy
time became odd
2018-04-05 08:19:44.100000
2018-04-05 08:19:44.100000
17:42
on the newest coinbase entries
Z
18:41
Zack
https://www.finder.com.au/verge-xvg-cryptocurrency-destroyed-in-historic-51-attack
Timestamp attacks aren't just theory any more. Someone did it.
Timestamp attacks aren't just theory any more. Someone did it.
K
18:50
Kale
Hell,why my GPU is so low
18:50
And my 80ti can 3.7G/S
18:51
but 1065 onmy 156 MH/S
K
18:52
this is miner,bro
18:53
Deleted Account
OK. I will change my 1080ti into this miner.
K
18:53
Kale
Could you help me,bro
18:53
but why my 1065 can't use this miner
18:53
very low
18:54
Deleted Account
They said the paragms will be higher than mandel's miner
IP
18:57
oh, sorry, happened yesterday
18:57
the fun part is people still pump it like crazy lol
K
18:58
Kale
so,could you help me?
18:58
why i can't use this miner in 1065 and 1080 and 50ti
Z
IP
18:59
I P
In reply to this message
people on the exchange did not realize it yet. i'm a trader myself and what i see there is that big money already dumped
Z
19:00
Zack
Yes, maybe the reaction time is slow because most investors don't understand what is happening
IP
19:01
I P
so right now people small people are about to get screwed as they see that price spiked- dropped after that and they buy in
19:01
yep all their verge right now is completely worthless outside exchange
Z
19:02
Zack
https://verge-blockchain.info/
Timestamps look normal now. I guess he turned the attack off.
Timestamps look normal now. I guess he turned the attack off.
19:03
I guess the attacker didn't want to completely destroy it, otherwise he wouldn't make a profit
IP
AS
19:06
Aizen Sou
That Verge is a total scam. Maindev is incompetent, he only could copy source from other coins and then use rebranding. But their marketing is top notch. They were able to brainwash all crypto noobs and Verge becomes a cult. Sunerok is a coding god, etc.
IP
AS
19:07
Aizen Sou
Only 15mil VERGE was created, it's nothing.
19:07
Yes they paid a lot of PnD groups too. Someone big is behind all of this i think. Can't wait to see it's dead like BitConnect
IP
19:08
I P
people were buying into verge because they thought it will cost many dollars per coin lol
19:08
it pumped 100x and they thought it will pump another 100x lol come on
AS
19:09
Aizen Sou
Yeah, perfect coin like Ripple LOL. 🤣
IP
19:09
I P
i knew people overall are stupid, did not think that they are that stupid
19:09
ripple pump and dump scam is classic, they do it 1-2 times a year
Z
19:10
Zack
I am excited that attacks like this are happening.
I want to team up with someone who has lots of hashpower to do attacks like this to other blockchains.
I can find vulnerabilities more easily after designing Amoveo.
I want to team up with someone who has lots of hashpower to do attacks like this to other blockchains.
I can find vulnerabilities more easily after designing Amoveo.
19:11
We could earn millions, and we could shut down insecure blockchains.
S
19:11
Sy
and also commit crimes...
Z
19:11
Zack
Is it a crime?
S
19:11
Sy
its an attack after all
19:12
cyber laws got modified hugely over the last years
Z
19:12
Zack
I attacked someone in an MMORPG before
S
19:12
Sy
thats an intended mechanism
Z
19:12
Zack
When they died I took their items.
S
19:12
Sy
if you abused a bug you will be banned
19:12
if you do real harm you will be prosecuted
Z
19:12
Zack
Will I get extradited to some country that has blockchains laws?
S
19:13
Sy
xD
19:13
just be prepared, might happen to amoveo
19:13
now that ppl now its possible
Z
19:13
Zack
I think that my country doesn't have an extradition treaty for this kind of thing
IP
19:14
i think it is a public service
S
19:14
Sy
well its basicly just a question of money
19:14
if you got enough money you can rent enough gpus on amazon
IP
19:14
I P
crypto needs to be cleansed of shitty coins and technology
Z
19:14
Zack
I can just donate half the profit to orphans or cancer research or something
IP
19:14
and you don't need to rent amazon
19:14
nicehash rental is cheap
S
19:14
Sy
i mean amoveo got like 6000 GH running, a 1080ti is doing 3.7
19:14
so only 100 to get 50%
19:15
no 1000 xD
19:15
still doable
19:15
amazon got v100
19:15
safecoin is running like 200 khs, you can rent more via nicehash
19:15
ksols*
IP
19:15
I P
nicehash rentals on certain algos is very cheap right now
S
19:15
Sy
you can easily take out almost every chain early
19:15
just need a few 10k to burn
19:16
if at all
19:16
i mean we had our own accident attack when ap2 node refused to sync with others xD
IP
19:16
I P
yeah but that was a bug
Z
19:16
Zack
a 51% attack isn't necessarily very profitable.
Verge seems to have had a timestamp vulnerability that made it easier to pull off.
Verge seems to have had a timestamp vulnerability that made it easier to pull off.
19:17
to do this to Amoveo, you would have to maintain 51% control for 1000 blocks of normal difficulty.
19:18
Which would give us plenty of time to see the attack coming, and to do a hard fork to stop it.
S
19:18
Sy
looks like we reached old levels
19:18
700 blocks to go, next diff 2500? higher?
19:19
as long as it isnt x4 again....
IP
19:20
I P
diff going up is because of amd gpus joining.
S
19:20
Sy
na
IP
19:20
I P
1.4ghs per rx580 is not so bad
S
19:20
Sy
its faster on existing gpus aswell
19:20
i dont think any new real farm has joined yet
IP
19:21
I P
i joined my amd farm, was mining akroma on ethash
M
Z
19:21
Zack
looks like block time is between 400 and 600 and decreasing. so I guess the new difficulty will be between 2000 and 4000 th/block
S
IP
19:21
I P
only 6 =)) i have a couple of rigs at home and that's it=))
S
19:22
Sy
thats no farm, thats one rig xD
IP
19:22
I P
ok=))))
S
19:22
Sy
😁
IP
19:23
I P
I know this looks bad
S
19:24
Sy
good enough
M
19:24
Marc
punk rock rig 😜
19:24
good enough for starting a fire.
IP
19:25
I P
yeah i think i need to buy a fire extinguisher
S
19:25
Sy
19:25
my first of the new ones :)
19:26
two of these are still running, the others are in 19" cases
OK
19:26
O K
Why would it start a fire? Don't keep water around the rig
19:27
I guess fire extinguishers are good to have
S
19:27
Sy
i installed smoke detectors :-D
19:28
running the first rig since dec 2017 now, no problems at all
OK
19:28
O K
But I can tell you from experience you better have practiced getting the fire extinguisher and putting out a fire at least once, or at least gone over it in your head a few times... Simple things become rather complex when you're panicing
M
19:30
Marc
good advise.
IP
19:31
I P
well the only thing that can go wrong is if power supply gets blown up
M
19:32
Marc
cheap cables tend to burn, too.
IP
19:34
I P
In reply to this message
but with cables you can always touch them and inspect if they are getting hot
M
19:34
Marc
true
IP
19:34
I P
actually veo algo is not that hot if you downvolt
19:34
it does not burn memory controller or memory at all like equihash or dagger
OK
Z
19:36
Zack
so memory hard algorithms are bottle-necked by electricity, and cpu hard algorithms are bottle-necked by hardware?
OK
19:36
O K
In reply to this message
What settings are you using? Blocksize/numblocks. Try one GPU and see if it's faster
IP
K
19:37
Kale
192 168 40000
Z
OK
IP
19:38
I P
the worst is neoscrypt- burns both gpu and mem like crazy, equihash is very hot also
K
19:38
Kale
Someone tell me and useful in 80ti
OK
19:38
O K
Try one GPU at a time, '0' instead of 'all' same problem?
K
19:41
Kale
Yes
80,65.,50ti not work
80,65.,50ti not work
19:41
But 80ti very good
S
20:00
Sy
In reply to this message
with the first ones yea, the last ones not so much, first 1070ti was 425€ last one 600³
20:10
Deleted Account
I don't think 51％ attack is crime either.
20:11
It is just how the cryptocurrency world works
22:05
Deleted Account
Can Amoveo be mined by nicehash sha256?
S
22:05
Sy
no
22:07
Deleted Account
Nor asics, that's the beauty of it
22:07
Deleted Account
ASICS help coins success
S
22:08
Sy
no
22:08
only if your coin is the only one with that algo
22:08
which is neve the case at the point asics are out
I
OK
I
22:15
Deleted Account
Anyone running 1080Ti's here?
S
22:18
Deleted Account
Got what I needed, thanks!
S
22:19
Sy
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
👍, 34.6 KB
D
22:33
Denis
In reply to this message
Which settings are you using for 1070ti? Hope i'll get one soon.
22:33
Deleted Account
128/168
22:39
Deleted Account
Last 1000 blocks mined by:
BKdkHXUe 427 Amoveopool2
BEwcawKx 353 Sy's pool
BPWNDtqS 104 Zack's pool
BPbrVjYZ 100 ?
BE72Advs 16 ?
BKdkHXUe 427 Amoveopool2
BEwcawKx 353 Sy's pool
BPWNDtqS 104 Zack's pool
BPbrVjYZ 100 ?
BE72Advs 16 ?
MF
M
22:42
Marc
Bee 🐝 72 is me.
22:42
Deleted Account
Good to know nobody has 51 %.
22:43
So, BPbrVjYZ is noncense pool?
22:43
Deleted Account
how would the community react if someone had 51%?
MF
22:48
Mr Flintstone
people are gonna be able to 51% attack this chain for a while if they really want
22:48
it’ll keep getting more expensive until we have ASICs, then the probability decreases significantly imo
22:51
Deleted Account
unless the attackers have ASICs as well
22:52
Deleted Account
If the ASIC cost is so high the attacker will not want to devaulate the network by atttacking.
OK
23:00
Deleted Account
or the first 500
OK
23:00
O K
Precisely
Z
S
23:02
Sy
i got 40% of the last 24h blocks
23:02
its slowly dropping, the new miner is faster and it runs on amd
23:03
so more are joining :)
23:03
Deleted Account
Last 250 blocks
BEwcawKx 104 41.6%
BKdkHXUe 59 23.6%
BPbrVjYZ 55 22.0%
BPWNDtqS 21 8.4%
BE72Advs 11 4.4%
BEwcawKx 104 41.6%
BKdkHXUe 59 23.6%
BPbrVjYZ 55 22.0%
BPWNDtqS 21 8.4%
BE72Advs 11 4.4%
S
23:04
Sy
see :)
23:04
Deleted Account
how much hashrate do you have Sy?
S
23:04
Sy
last 24h we mined 215 blocks
23:04
its a pool and kinda hart to tell, you know its jumpy
23:04
about 2 th i think
23:04
Deleted Account
alright, thanks for sharing :)
S
23:04
Sy
maybe 2.5
23:05
current measured rate vs accepted shares for the last hour is 2.1 TH
23:07
In reply to this message
we = all of us
so we are a tiny bit above the 144 blocks per day target ^^
so we are a tiny bit above the 144 blocks per day target ^^
23:07
Deleted Account
First 500 blocks
BATman9w 382 76.4%
BKyLqCvF 117 23.4%
BGDXGmov 1 0.2%
BATman9w 382 76.4%
BKyLqCvF 117 23.4%
BGDXGmov 1 0.2%
S
23:07
Sy
hehe
23:07
i like his adress
23:07
i should try the vanitygen too
OK
23:07
O K
You didn't?
23:07
I thought it was vanity xD
S
23:08
Sy
na, too lazy
OK
23:08
O K
Hahaha
S
23:08
Sy
and my bi6 got sy somewhere in it, good enough xD
Z
23:08
Zack
I added a vanity gen to the full node
S
23:09
Sy
i used a gpu powered vanitygen back for some coins when there were just tiny variations in address generation, that was kinda fun
23:09
ofc i always made something like b00b xD
OK
23:09
O K
XD
D
23:27
Deleted Account
The new miner is 20％ faster
23:27
is it stable?
M
23:28
Minieep21
I can't get my 1080ti to run faster on it
OK
23:28
Deleted Account
256/168
23:29
try it
M
23:30
Minieep21
Ah yes, that worked.
From 3.1 to 3.7 GH/s
From 3.1 to 3.7 GH/s
23:31
Deleted Account
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
👍, 44.0 KB
23:31
is the new miner stable to run?
OK
23:32
O K
It seems to run better to me
23:32
I have had no crashes
23:32
Deleted Account
that is awesome.
23:32
who coded it?
OK
23:32
O K
"PhamHuong92," that's all we know
23:33
He has a reddit account, and there is someone with that name on the discord, but not clear if it's an imposter or not
Z
23:33
Zack
In reply to this message
None of these crimes are related to a blockchain timestamp attack.
These crimes all either involve gaining unauthorised access to data or causing a computer to malfunction. Even if a blockchain loses value, all the computers running the blockchain are functioning normally.
They are all crimes that happen to a central computer that is owned by a person or company with a legal presence in a country.
Since a blockchain doesn't have a country, it isn't clear what court they would use to sue.
Since a blockchain doesn't have an owner, it isn't clear who would have the right to pursue legal recourse.
Running a non-standard full node can't be a crime, because there is no way to decide which full node is standard, and which is an attack.
Is parity attacking geth-ethereum? Is geth attacking parity-ethereum?
These crimes all either involve gaining unauthorised access to data or causing a computer to malfunction. Even if a blockchain loses value, all the computers running the blockchain are functioning normally.
They are all crimes that happen to a central computer that is owned by a person or company with a legal presence in a country.
Since a blockchain doesn't have a country, it isn't clear what court they would use to sue.
Since a blockchain doesn't have an owner, it isn't clear who would have the right to pursue legal recourse.
Running a non-standard full node can't be a crime, because there is no way to decide which full node is standard, and which is an attack.
Is parity attacking geth-ethereum? Is geth attacking parity-ethereum?
OK
23:35
O K
In reply to this message
This is all very logical, but government courts around the world make illogical decisions every day
Z
23:36
Zack
Making a profit by attacking a blockchain in secret is almost certainly illegal. Since you aren't reporting your income as tax.
OK
23:37
O K
I would think at least making a pseudonym and doing what might be (wrongly or rightly) perceived as more radical blockchain related activities under that guise would be prudent
Z
23:37
Zack
If you use a pseudonym and openly break the law, then it seems even more likely you would be a target
I
23:38
Iridescence
In reply to this message
Good luck explaining that to a jury consisting of laypersons
OK
Z
23:38
Zack
Failing to report income is a crime.
Participating in a blockchain is not.
Participating in a blockchain is not.
I
23:39
Iridescence
Sure, and downloading files doesn't seem like a crime, until it is
Z
23:39
Zack
I guess you could launder the money, and say you earned it some other way?
is it legal to lie about where you earned money from?
is it legal to lie about where you earned money from?
OK
23:39
O K
In reply to this message
Yes, I wasn't replying to your "in secret" = illegal message, I was replying to the long one. If it's in secret, you wouldn't be using a pseudonym at all
I
23:40
Iridescence
My point is that there doesn't seem much to be gained by announcing in public that you want to attack other chains, and it seems like there's much to be lost
M
23:40
Minieep21
I understand how it may not be viewed as criminal in the technological aspect, it's just that the general outlook on a dev leading an attack (in the name of profit) would be rather negative.
23:40
A random person interested in learning about Amoveo may instantly turn away after reading a comment like that...
Z
23:41
Zack
In reply to this message
Attacks work much better if there is more hash power involved. If we attack together, we profit together.
I
23:41
Iridescence
So you are proposing that we use our GPUs to mine other chains instead? 😂
IP
23:41
I P
i think trying to 'attack' blockchains is simply not a crime by law in any definition
OK
23:41
O K
Income != profit if the value of the coin drops
Z
23:41
Zack
In reply to this message
If no one commits attacks, then security is pointless. We might as well use centralized systems. It becomes a popularity contest.
I
23:42
Iridescence
On attack would be similar to the recent XVG fiasco
OK
23:42
O K
In reply to this message
Neither was someone running a website like craigslist or backpage assumed to be responsible for the actions of people who used the site, but see where that landed Ross Ulbricht
Z
23:42
Zack
The reason I support attackers is because this is the only way to prove how secure amoveo is.
23:43
Only people with insecure blockchains would be worried about attackers.
IP
23:43
I P
In reply to this message
i would put it this way- there is a lot of very shitty altcoin blockchain that are valued a lot but really are not decentralized, nor secure and such shitcoins need to be cleansed from crypto
OK
23:43
O K
In reply to this message
The reason I support black hat hackers is because this is the only way to prove how secure a website is.
23:44
In reply to this message
Only people with insecure websites would be worried about black hat hackers.
IP
23:44
I P
and you better remove all those shitty blockchain now because the later you do it- the worse it gets
Z
23:44
Zack
In reply to this message
A blockchain is very different from a website.
Websites are centralized in a country.
Websites are centralized in a country.
IP
23:44
I P
the more money and resources is waisted on garbage like verge or scams like tron
23:45
did you see that shitshow with tron testnet? i was rolling on floor laughing
IP
23:47
I P
In reply to this message
i would say that much more more people lost a lot of money on tron
I
23:47
Iridescence
The recent XVG shit also made the devs look super incompetent
Z
23:47
Zack
If someone makes a math proof, and I attack it by finding a flaw to show that the proof is invalid, that isn't a crime.
IP
23:48
I P
and the only one who really profits there is that scammer justin sun because he is able to pump and inexistent shit and dump his billions of tokens on poor people fomoing on the hype
I
23:48
Iridescence
You would think math can't be illegal, but.....
OK
23:48
O K
In reply to this message
It also doesn't affect people who might not be so technically savvy
I
IP
23:48
I P
In reply to this message
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
😛, 9.6 KB
OK
23:49
O K
I'm just wondering if maybe there is a "white hat" approach to making blockchains more secure
IP
OK
23:49
O K
I'm not arguing that it should be illegal
I
Z
23:49
Zack
The guy who was peddling bad math could be exploiting people.
Showing that it is invalid is protecting people.
Showing that it is invalid is protecting people.
OK
23:49
O K
In reply to this message
When it comes to blockchains, and unbanked people who started using certain chains, you know this is not the case
Z
23:50
Zack
How about if I only publish the code for the attack, and I don't participate?
I don't have any miners anyway.
I don't have any miners anyway.
OK
23:51
O K
Would you release to devs first?
I
23:51
Iridescence
Responsible disclosure
OK
23:51
O K
I think that is a good way
I
23:51
Iridescence
As in common in non-crypto
23:51
Give the devs some period of time to fix the problem
23:51
Then make it public
Z
23:52
Zack
A website has owners and devs. A blockchain doesn't have classes. Everyone is the same.
The devs are as likely to attack as anyone else
The devs are as likely to attack as anyone else
I
23:52
Iridescence
But the devs are probably more invested than others
OK
23:52
O K
I understand the sentiment here, but I think historically that's not the case. Devs have skin in the game.
I
23:52
Iridescence
Just like you have the most VEO amongst us
OK
23:53
O K
See monero exploit that would have allowed unfettered monero printing from 1-2 years ago
23:53
Maybe it wasn't that long, it's hard to remember in crypto-time
Z
23:56
Zack
So if I find a big worth millions of dollars, I am supposed to give it away for free?
Even if it cost me a lot of money to discover that bug?
Even if it cost me a lot of money to discover that bug?
23:56
Sounds like a game where there is no incentive to find bugs.
OK
23:57
O K
White hats have strategies for making income, the same argument can be applied to someone who finds an exploit for any non-chain service or site
23:57
I'm not saying you're supposed to do one thing or the other
Z
23:57
Zack
So I am supposed to demand a ransom and only attack if they don't pay me?
23:58
Why would whales even trust that the attack is serious?
What if a dev lies after fixing it, and claims the attack was never serious?
What if a dev lies after fixing it, and claims the attack was never serious?
OK
23:59
O K
Or you could not do the work for people who don't hire you first, "What, I took the time to clean McDonald's vents and prevented a major fire for them, and I'm just supposed to do that for free even though they didn't hire me?"
IP
23:59
I P
that is why you need to do such attack anonymously and take profit
23:59
and make lessons for people
OK
I
IP
23:59
I P
people pay a lot of money for education, such attacks is an education, an expensive one but very much needed
6 April 2018
Z
00:00
Zack
By launching competing blockchains, they are already attacking amoveo.
If we shut them down, it is a defensive measure.
If we shut them down, it is a defensive measure.
OK
00:00
O K
By publishing about the vuln after responsible disclosure, you become a trusted source, and are instantly hireable
00:00
infosec people make bank
IP
Z
00:00
Zack
Being hired sounds awful to me
OK
IP
OK
IP
00:02
I P
yeah but sometimes you walk away without being paid
OK
00:02
O K
This happens in entrepreneurship as well ... I prefer working only for myself, so I get the sentiment
00:04
If you're a trusted source, there are other creative ways to capitalize right...
00:04
So, you have your trusted source blog, and everyone goes to you, and instead of being hireable, you buy coins you believe are secure, and then market them ("pump" them).
00:05
I don't mean to get stuck on any one way, I'm just saying there's more than one way to monetize the skill and work
Z
00:05
Zack
The competing devs will lie and say that the exploit I found was never really an exploit.
It is too expensive for anyone to verify if the exploit was real or not.
It is too expensive for anyone to verify if the exploit was real or not.
00:06
I don't think I can gain reputation this way.
00:12
It's like if you are manufacturing paper towels.
It makes sense to buy competing brands, and to make a video showing that your brand is more absorbant.
Yes this hurts the competition.
It is important to be able to measure blockchains against each other to find which is more secure.
The only reliable way to do this is by executing attacks.
Otherwise the devs will just lie and claim their own blockchain is most secure.
It makes sense to buy competing brands, and to make a video showing that your brand is more absorbant.
Yes this hurts the competition.
It is important to be able to measure blockchains against each other to find which is more secure.
The only reliable way to do this is by executing attacks.
Otherwise the devs will just lie and claim their own blockchain is most secure.
M
00:15
Minieep21
'The great blockchain war of '38 left the world and most chains devastated. Miner war parties scoured the world for scraps of resources to create additional hash power, people lived in endless fear of annihilation and devaluation...'
Z
00:17
Zack
I hope that blockchains become the new battlefield instead of Africa/Middle East.
It would save a lot of lives.
It would save a lot of lives.
00:19
Wars are fought to control the monetary system.
00:20
I wonder what a blockchain with a $100 billion programming budget would look like.
I
00:31
Iridescence
Bigger is not necessarily better
00:31
Amoveo, for example. =)
Z
00:31
Zack
In reply to this message
That is true for armies too.
Look at the Vietnam War for example.
Look at the Vietnam War for example.
J
00:32
Jim
One metric I look at is (amount of dev work)/(amount of dev funding). This project, for instance, scores infinity on that scale, therefore I’m here.
00:34
Deleted Account
Anyone buying right now (just curious)
Z
00:35
Zack
I would buy for $110
00:37
Deleted Account
You're finally getting closer...lol last week you were at $80
OK
00:46
O K
I like your business example. I think it would be good to think more business-like and less war-like. When I say 'good' in this context, I mean, it will bring your ends for Amoveo to be #1 and to change the world and save the unbanked sooner, than thinking war-like. Means-end relationship.
"The only reliable way to do this is by executing attacks" — NOT true. You can be resilient to attacks by making Amoveo more robust against attacks. Attacks can and do happen without you being the one doing the attacking.
You should recognize (means-end still) that if you put your name and face on an attack and destroy another (albeit inferior) dev's wealth from another competing chain, that they may engage in REAL war-like, extra-market tactics and attack you, outside of the blockchain realm. Or they may hire the government to do that for them.
Secondly, I believe you are a great developer, but you can't do everything. You can think like a business person and spend all your time working on Amoveo's fundamentals, or you can split your time up and spend some time attacking other chains. This reflects poorly on Amoveo, (we still aren't talking right-wrong, we are talking means-end), and leaves Amoveo more vulnerable to attack. If you work on fundamentals, with time Amoveo will prove itself by surviving the test of time.
It would make little sense for a burger king across the street from mcdonalds to say "by selling cheeseburgers, they are attacking us"... This may be blockchain terminology, but it's not business terminology. I think in the long run amoveo will win sooner if you focus on making Amoveo better, and let the professional attackers do the attacking
"The only reliable way to do this is by executing attacks" — NOT true. You can be resilient to attacks by making Amoveo more robust against attacks. Attacks can and do happen without you being the one doing the attacking.
You should recognize (means-end still) that if you put your name and face on an attack and destroy another (albeit inferior) dev's wealth from another competing chain, that they may engage in REAL war-like, extra-market tactics and attack you, outside of the blockchain realm. Or they may hire the government to do that for them.
Secondly, I believe you are a great developer, but you can't do everything. You can think like a business person and spend all your time working on Amoveo's fundamentals, or you can split your time up and spend some time attacking other chains. This reflects poorly on Amoveo, (we still aren't talking right-wrong, we are talking means-end), and leaves Amoveo more vulnerable to attack. If you work on fundamentals, with time Amoveo will prove itself by surviving the test of time.
It would make little sense for a burger king across the street from mcdonalds to say "by selling cheeseburgers, they are attacking us"... This may be blockchain terminology, but it's not business terminology. I think in the long run amoveo will win sooner if you focus on making Amoveo better, and let the professional attackers do the attacking
Z
00:47
Zack
We could use a dominant assurance contract on amoveo to fund a propaganda campaign, to convince the people that attacking our competitors is morally good.
Like how the military pays to have movies and TV shows made, and they pay to be involved in football games.
Like how the military pays to have movies and TV shows made, and they pay to be involved in football games.
00:48
In reply to this message
When I build better defenses, I also realize ways to attack competitors at the same time. They are both the same thing.
00:51
Once we have ASICS, I think we will need to attack and destroy any small blockchains that try using our same ASICS.
Otherwise if they grow too much, it would make amoveo less secure against attacks.
Otherwise if they grow too much, it would make amoveo less secure against attacks.
S
00:52
you are basicly saying the more i know and the more powerfull i become the more you want to abuse that and harm others - great statement really...
Z
00:53
Zack
We can test it out.
I should launch some forks of amoveo that use competitor Asics.
I should launch some forks of amoveo that use competitor Asics.
OK
00:54
O K
By doing good and being good, people will naturally be attracted to you and Amoveo. I think the assumption that "Amoveo will remain on the same course if we actively attack other chains, and the other chains will then fail" should be examined very closely. I think the "Amoveo will remain on the same course" is the part that is feeble.
People will turn against you, and Amoveo will die.
People will turn against you, and Amoveo will die.
B
00:54
Ben
i dont the the Problem you try to find a solution for...
00:54
+1 @ok
OK
Z
00:56
Zack
If multiple blockchains share the same Asics, I am pretty sure that it is an unstable equilibrium, and eventually all but one will die.
Game theory is hard, I could be wrong
Game theory is hard, I could be wrong
OK
00:57
O K
I'm excited to be in these spaces and witness what will happen as things develop
B
00:59
Ben
you are wrong
00:59
already proofed by BTC
01:00
Same ASIC Multiple Coins can co-exist.
Z
01:04
Zack
Bitcoin and bitcoin cash have been coexisting for a while.
This means that one of them is being supported by altruists who are willing to lose money to support their blockchain of choice.
Which to me seems like an unstable equilibrium.
This means that one of them is being supported by altruists who are willing to lose money to support their blockchain of choice.
Which to me seems like an unstable equilibrium.
01:05
In any moment, one of them is more profitable to mine.
So 100% of miners would only be mining the more profitable one, unless some are altruists.
So 100% of miners would only be mining the more profitable one, unless some are altruists.
B
01:05
Ben
that is totaly wrong.
01:06
both chains are healty and stable
01:06
hugh hashrate on both
01:06
thes is no switchover because one is more profitable
Z
01:08
Zack
For example, let's say that bcash is 5% less profitable to mine.
That means I could get 1 bcash by mining bcash. Or I could get 1.05 bcash by mining bitcoin, and selling the bitcoin for bcash.
That means I could get 1 bcash by mining bcash. Or I could get 1.05 bcash by mining bitcoin, and selling the bitcoin for bcash.
01:08
Any self-interested miner would only mine the profitable chain.
01:09
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Look ay BCH and BTC. It was happened, and it is happening.
B
01:10
Ben
you mean that both are healthy and alive?
OK
01:10
O K
Farmers farm land is like mining farms. Switching from 🌽 to 🍚 might be more profitable, but if everyone switches it's not the right decision. And sometimes people lose because prices change before they can get their product to market. Same applies with mining.
Z
01:14
Zack
In reply to this message
Farmland is not like blockchains.
Some parts of the planet are suited for different crops.
And there is a significant delay between planting and harvest.
A miner who is paid by a pool can sell their tokens simultaneously as they are being mined.
The pool can pay in a different currency than the one being mined.
It takes no time to get to market.
And miners can instantly switch what they are mining. There is no 3-month delay till harvest.
Some parts of the planet are suited for different crops.
And there is a significant delay between planting and harvest.
A miner who is paid by a pool can sell their tokens simultaneously as they are being mined.
The pool can pay in a different currency than the one being mined.
It takes no time to get to market.
And miners can instantly switch what they are mining. There is no 3-month delay till harvest.
B
01:21
Ben
honstely, i dont get the Discussion.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
Z
01:22
Zack
In reply to this message
That's OK. Game theory is hard, and you don't have to understand to be able to use amoveo.
M
01:23
Marc
chillax guys.
B
01:23
Ben
honstely, i think you have only one angle and that is technical. The chances that Amoveo will fail due to poor Business Decission is way bigger than that someone will "attack" amveo or will copy the Tech.
Z
01:24
Zack
In reply to this message
Farmers can use a futures market to sell their crop before they plant it. So this doesn't really apply for farmers either.
B
01:24
Ben
but if i'm im in your or the worlds eyes an poor Farmer i'm fine with it, as long as i get my stake.
MF
01:27
Mr Flintstone
I don’t think amoveo can make a business decision
B
01:30
Ben
but the Dev can.
01:39
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Yes. I agree with you. And AMOVEO should have a team.
MF
01:42
Mr Flintstone
the dev can make his own decisions. only the community acts on behalf of the community
01:42
we can choose to accept or reject
Deleted joined group by link from Group
01:46
Deleted Account
Hey everyone, recently started mining with my 4x 1070ti rig. Using veominer 1.0 I am getting 1.86 GH/s, does that sound right? I am using the default settings. Love the concept of Amoveo and definitely pumped for the future of it!
IP
OK
01:47
O K
You can do better than default settings for sure, and you'll want to get 1.2... I believe it's improved over 1.0
02:06
Deleted Account
Okay. I will try that out. I saw above that 128 168 works well for 1070ti so I’ll test with that.
OK
02:19
O K
If I do a spend with the light wallet, and it doesn't show up in the reciptient's wallet or come out of my wallet after a block, then it's safe to do again?
02:20
(after updating headers ofc)
Z
02:22
Zack
In reply to this message
It is safe to publish the same tx twice.
Making a new tx is dangerous.
Did you check if it is in the mempool of the node that generated it?
Making a new tx is dangerous.
Did you check if it is in the mempool of the node that generated it?
OK
02:29
O K
I see, looking at the console I think there was a space at the end of the recipient's address, but I didn't catch it because I copied and pasted the address into the wallet and explorer side by side, and the explorer will still work with a space at the end
02:32
Maybe when the console throws the error, it would be helpful to display on the page that the address is invalid, and not delete the amount. The amount deleted, which in the markets means the transaction was successful, but for spending, it does not.
Z
02:33
Zack
It deletes the amount so if you accidentally double-click, it doesn't spend money twice.
02:34
An error message is a good idea
OK
02:34
O K
In the event of success ☑️ but if it fails, deleting the amount doesn't protect
IP
02:43
I P
Zack, are there any plans for mobile wallet with maybe more human-readable addresses?
Al joined group by link from Group
IP
02:44
I P
it would be cool if people could send veo to a person in email like they do with byteball
Z
02:46
Zack
I was not planning on making a name coin type registry on chain.
It is possible to put an address book into your light wallet, but I doubt anyone wants it at this point.
"Sending Veo by email" I don't understand what this could mean.
It is possible to put an address book into your light wallet, but I doubt anyone wants it at this point.
"Sending Veo by email" I don't understand what this could mean.
IP
Z
02:49
Zack
Oh, byte ball has you email the private key.
that is a bad idea. I don't want to write something like that.
that is a bad idea. I don't want to write something like that.
IP
02:50
I P
well while i see a problem with that it is an easy way to get a lot of people involved into using
Z
02:50
Zack
It is easy to do with the current light node.
Use a brain wallet to make an address. Then send Veo to the address. Then email the brain wallet to your friend.
I recommend not doing this. You will likely get robbed.
Use a brain wallet to make an address. Then send Veo to the address. Then email the brain wallet to your friend.
I recommend not doing this. You will likely get robbed.
J
05:29
Jim
In reply to this message
Key difference though - the sent wallet is only spendable once, and the client automatically sweeps it to ensure end user doesn’t use it as actual wallet
Z
05:32
Zack
In reply to this message
Security by obscurity is not real security.
I recommend never sending a private key to someone.
It is better to make a tx to spend the veo to them.
I recommend never sending a private key to someone.
It is better to make a tx to spend the veo to them.
J
05:46
Jim
Yes, “them” (email address) that is an alias for a public key
Z
06:41
Zack
Emailing a private key to someone is insecure. You should never do this.
M
06:45
Marc
who does this? this is really insure.
MF
06:51
Mr Flintstone
big hash rate went offline? Or luck
Z
06:54
Zack
Looks like some mining power turned off
06:55
We are still going plenty fast
MF
N
09:55
NM$L
why my 1060 5g only get 100mh/s
Z
10:07
Zack
No one will sell to me for $110, so I guess the market cap is at least $2 million.
People keep posting trade prices above $200, so maybe the market cap is $4 million.
People keep posting trade prices above $200, so maybe the market cap is $4 million.
10:09
Deleted Account
too hot to have GPU at home.
10:09
I am buying fire extinguisher now
MH
10:10
Mandel Hoff
In reply to this message
I get 1.40 gh/s with my 1060 and veominer 1.2. Settings are blocksize=64, numblocks=100.
Z
10:10
Zack
a fire alarm is important too, so if it starts on fire while you sleep, you will know
10:13
Deleted Account
Yes. I will buy one
10:31
Deleted Account
WTB 10 @ $110 -> what it means?
Z
10:41
Zack
I want to buy 10 Veo at the price of $110 per Veo.
A
12:43
Al
Good morning! Can't find info on difficulty changes - per block or something
12:48
Deleted Account
WTS 40 @$125
12:55
Deleted Account
sy is getting blocks like crazy
12:56
Deleted Account
sy has 50% hashrate
12:59
recent 500 blocks
12:59
Deleted Account
lol
13:00
sy has about 1500 gtx1080
13:10
Deleted Account
I think he said he run a private pool. I wonder how many miners are there.
14:32
Deleted Account
That is a lot :)
14:43
Deleted Account
fuck
14:43
sy is rich
14:43
he is the 1%
S
14:43
Sy
i am?
14:44
Deleted Account
global elites
S
14:44
Sy
i mean mandel / OK were running ap with 80%+ blocks, you never said they are rich
14:44
Deleted Account
:)
S
14:44
Sy
you guys sure assume alot :D
14:44
Deleted Account
you guys are the new rothchilds
S
14:44
Sy
lol that would be funny
14:44
but i dont think so, their laid is quite substantial
14:44
lead*
14:45
laid probably too xD
14:45
Deleted Account
yeah lol
14:45
cant talk about the 2nd part
14:45
that needs less gpus and more party space
14:45
pick your battles
S
14:45
Sy
haha
14:46
Deleted Account
global elites armed with red hot gpus, asking others, show me your asic because i know you dont have any
14:46
alright i need to hit the sack
S
14:48
Sy
new meme incoming? "Do you even mine?"
14:48
Deleted Account
you missed the "bro"
A
14:50
Al
so strange - not getting any coins (
14:50
Deleted Account
you are the 99%
14:50
welcome to poverty
B
15:09
Ben
s/poverty/party
15:09
;)
S
15:09
Sy
you are inviting? nice 😎
B
15:10
Ben
no Problem at all
15:11
Cryto Party with a Meat and Drinks in my Garden, but you Guys are most Probably far away.
M
16:09
Marc
🐝72 is trying hard to save the day.
A
16:28
Al
guys any support? :)
M
16:31
Marc
just ask.
A
16:32
Al
In reply to this message
I see my hashrate on pool side, but for few hours not a single penny
M
16:33
Marc
what's your address?
Z
A
S
16:51
Sy
soo ~500 to go
16:51
about 2.5 days
B
16:54
Ben
zack do you own any Domains regarding amoveo?
17:01
Deleted Account
next adjustment will make it harder to get one block
S
17:06
Sy
yep, 2500-3000 i guess / hope
B
17:54
Ben
catweed you own it or Zack?
17:57
because i currently gauge interest in getting Amoveo a professional Face, inclunding Website and Marketing Video
B
17:58
Ben
ok
17:58
i have an agency that offerd me a complete Package for 5K
G
B
17:58
Ben
and the work they did so far is pretty nice.
G
17:59
Gonzalo
hi everybody, I've been pretty bussy 😁
B
17:59
Ben
welcome back ;)
G
17:59
Gonzalo
thanks 👍
B
17:59
Ben
who is btw. in charge of the Discrod channel?
18:00
Deleted Account
Zack, I think
B
18:00
Ben
i would like to have a Marketing Channel there to see if the Interest is high enough to cover the 5K
18:00
ok, then i will wait for Zack to return
S
18:04
Sy
i think noone is admin...
IP
IP
18:28
I P
i was rather impessed when a saw richlist... and rather depressed also
IP
18:29
I P
i have 7 veo... my rank is not so high=))
18:29
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Recent transactions are available. Click pubkey link.
18:30
I joined mining in the first day.
IP
18:30
I P
people have over 1000 veo... many people have 100-300... holy crap
18:30
Deleted Account
it depressed me a lot
B
18:37
Ben
are you guys new to the mining game? ;)
18:37
early birds always eat have of the first cake ;)
S
18:53
Sy
w00t i moved a page down in holders, damn!
M
20:22
Minieep21
I started mining on first day, those who setup GPU farms at the start were the ones who got the bulk of it
S
20:27
Sy
there were no gpus back then...
OK
20:33
O K
We believed then that Batman likely had coded a private GPU
20:34
He had turned it on during testnet once or twice
20:35
There are other possible explanations, but seems likely enough. He also had a novelty name generator before we did, obviously wasn't his first time around the block
IP
20:36
I P
yeah this is why you want to have gpu miner ready before mainnet launch because clearly there will be a private one anyway
S
20:41
Sy
In reply to this message
this is actually true, especially on an algo as simple as this one
20:41
but most coin devs are not miner devs....
Z
20:50
Zack
In reply to this message
I think he made the batman name after Gonzalo released his vanity gen in Javascript.
S
20:50
Sy
in javascript? that should take quite some time
20:50
5 letters is not THAT fast
Z
20:51
Zack
The first 2 letter only have like 8 choices
20:51
So it is like 4 characters
S
20:51
Sy
ah okay
Z
20:51
Zack
That is why Gonzalo suggested the name batman before batman made it
OK
20:51
O K
What was first block Batman won ?
Deleted joined group by link from Group
S
22:48
Sy
ah you added zacks address :)
22:49
and i see those 2 1000 VEO adresses again, why didnt they show up in the first version?
22:50
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
In the first version, it did not parse create_acc transaction properly. Now fixed.
22:50
So some accounts were missing.
S
22:50
Sy
ah so they are actually created via transaction, interesting
IP
22:51
It's not spendable yet.
S
22:52
Sy
after a year?
22:52
or a certain block?
22:53
Deleted Account
One year I think.
Z
22:55
Zack
In reply to this message
A certain block.
I might do a hard fork to delay it, since blocks are happening faster than expected.
I might do a hard fork to delay it, since blocks are happening faster than expected.
S
22:55
Sy
next diff should fix that
23:02
Oh I got it. It's divided by block period in
txs.erl. So in a certain block.
Z
23:03
Zack
If we made the block period shorter, then I would have to wait until a higher block height.