Amoveo β₯π§Ώ
Previous messages
would do 10 000 blocks.
Next messages
29 March 2018
IP
11:48
I P
because he patched it lately and he is willing to go through the hassle with small and even manual payments
P|
11:48
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
Your point then?
IP
P|
11:49
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
I am asking for changes, not someone stating fact that this is how things always have been.
IP
11:49
I P
youare not asking
P|
11:50
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
I asked, and I wasn't answered.
IP
11:50
I P
you feel entitled to enforce whatever you think is right and bully people into it
11:50
this is not how thing work in crypto
P|
11:51
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
I am entitled to a right to voie my opinion, correct?
IP
11:51
I P
set up your own pool, make payout threshold 0.01 and invite people
P|
11:51
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
I am presenting facts and my opinions for other people in community to consider their course of actions.
11:52
I have no interest in doing that. All I care is my (and other's in this community) fair share of mined veo on Amoveopool2.com
IP
11:52
I P
In reply to this message
yes you are. but one thing is to say ' hey man pool page does not say payouts are at 1 veo, we need to change this. Actually, coulkd you lower the payout threshold, if not i will have ot leave the pool'
P|
11:53
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
I left the pool already.
11:53
Now I think others should as well
IP
11:53
I P
and other thing is to say "Paul C., [29.03.18 05:04]
My guess is that you are greedy, and you just want to rob veo of small miners who don't have enough hash power to accumulate to 1 veo.
Paul C., [29.03.18 05:04]
And everyone here should believe the same, unless you prove us wrong.
Paul C., [29.03.18 05:09]
The pool has absolutely no reason to withhold the payout, since the txn fee can be imposed on miners anyways."
My guess is that you are greedy, and you just want to rob veo of small miners who don't have enough hash power to accumulate to 1 veo.
Paul C., [29.03.18 05:04]
And everyone here should believe the same, unless you prove us wrong.
Paul C., [29.03.18 05:09]
The pool has absolutely no reason to withhold the payout, since the txn fee can be imposed on miners anyways."
11:54
if you are a pool operator and a man asks you to update your operation policy in good will you will consider it
11:54
but if a man comes to you and says ' you did not pay me my 0.001 veo you fcking scammer!!11 you owe me for life!111"
11:55
you don't consider change you consider to tell that man to go fck himself
11:55
Deleted Account
@potat_o ignoring the less than polite stuff, it does seem that 1 VEO is quite high now given the prices people are offering... I would not normally leave that much at risk ($100+) on any other pool
P|
11:57
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
That's your opinion on that what you would do yourself.
I have been asking multiple times (3 times in the past week) about getting my small fraction of payout. O K never answered.
I have been asking multiple times (3 times in the past week) about getting my small fraction of payout. O K never answered.
11:57
Should he be pissed from what I'm saying? Probably.
11:57
Am I pissed? Of course, that's why I'm voicing my opinion here.
IP
11:59
I P
please give us a link to your miner page
11:59
i just want to see how much you actually mined
P|
12:04
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
@kitty123 Should I post them here and tell the pool operator to ban all my addresses? I don't think so.
IP
12:04
I P
why would you mine to different addresses
P|
12:05
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
Because I have multiple cards with small hash power.
12:06
and the way I setup my miners.
IP
12:06
I P
In reply to this message
twell i have the same, you need to point them all to 1 address, it is like the most stupid thing to mine each card to new address
P|
12:08
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
Agreed. I changed my strategy later on
IP
12:11
I P
so basically you are mad at pool operator because you were stupid. Makes so much sense right now
P|
12:15
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
If you can infer to that, suit yourself.
My point is that it would take forever to accumulate 1 veo given the current difficulty. There should be either (1) an option for people to withdraw their share of veo and take on the txn fee themselves, or (2) lower payout threshold, which I do not think will solve the problem in long run.
My point is that it would take forever to accumulate 1 veo given the current difficulty. There should be either (1) an option for people to withdraw their share of veo and take on the txn fee themselves, or (2) lower payout threshold, which I do not think will solve the problem in long run.
IP
12:16
I P
In reply to this message
well there should be a mobile wallet, decentralized exchange and whatnot
12:16
the tech is very raw right now
P|
12:17
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
The only reason a pool operator choose not to implement option (1) is either because (a) they don't have veo to pay everyone, or (2) they plan to take all the veo pending in every address that mined less than 1 veo worth of share.
12:19
It should take the pool developer at most 20-40 minutes to make the option (1) available, given. Zack took something like 10-15 minutes.
IP
12:19
I P
In reply to this message
no the only reason is that is was easy to just set up autopayout to 1 veo and don't bother with customization
P|
12:20
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
or that the pool operator is technically incapable of making that change.
12:20
I have said all this before, you can just read up what I wrote
S
12:28
Sy
Paul...always funny to read
P|
12:28
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
π
S
12:33
Sy
Some people here tend to have rather strong emotional reactions to rational problems
12:33
The pool payout is 1.0 it was set there from times mining that amount was easy, it will probably be lowered soon since the diff ain't going down, trying to bully it down is foolish tho as explained, relax and wait
12:34
And yes, I'm pretty sure early btc pools had a 1+ payout limit aswell
12:34
Back when btc was worth less than veo now
12:36
It's like someone stole your candy and now you are unreasonable mad...
P|
12:43
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
Be it a candy or a million dollar, robbing people is still wrong and illegal nonetheless.
12:43
Deleted Account
Behind this quarrelοΌit is becaused it is so damn hard to mined 1 veo
IP
S
12:50
Sy
He never robbed you, you just realized something you didn't know and are mad about your own mistake, trying to cover it in insults and accusations
12:51
How much is your pool balance?
12:52
Deleted Account
two 1080ti anf one 1050ti mined 15 hours and get nothing.
S
12:52
Sy
Sadly that's not much
12:53
And if blocktime really are back to almost target that means new diff will be higher
IP
12:53
1070 is like 1.6GH/s
IP
12:54
I P
yeah, estimates
S
12:55
Sy
aaand im out of bed :D
12:55
blocktime still sux, why did someone earlier mention they are down to 10 minutes?
IP
12:59
I P
yeah, block time is high, earnings are low. BTC is going straight down
I
12:59
Iridescence
Wutamigonnadoo?
S
13:00
Sy
what was the node command again to check txis to a pubkey?
13:01
Deleted Account
Is BkdkHx the amoveopool2 address?
S
13:02
Sy
yes
13:02
Deleted Account
Bpwn zack pool?
I
13:04
Iridescence
Yes
M
13:14
Mike
I donβt think I ever received my final payout for Mandelβs pool
13:14
Has he done that yet?
IP
13:18
I P
why did mandel quit by the way?
S
13:22
Sy
taxes
IP
S
13:27
Sy
well in stupid europe in theory you are paying the pool users
13:27
so you have to make sure the gain is taxed...something like that
13:28
i've read about the theory but it isnt enforced yet and will probably be changed
13:28
hopefully...
M
13:29
Mike
Itβs particularly risky Iβd guess because if VEO becomes valuable, heβd be on the hook for a lot of taxes thatβd cause extra scrutiny
IP
13:29
I P
well i mean who cares about those taxes
13:29
there is no way to enforce that on him
S
13:30
Sy
sure there is
13:30
especially if you turn out to be rich
14:18
Deleted Account
eh this thread went to dogs with all the rant
14:19
what a sense of entitlement!
14:20
zack needs to code in a pacifier in the chain
S
15:19
Sy
keys:unlock got a timer now?
15:28
hmm it looks like keys:unlock relocks after i send something, how do i permanently unlock the node for pool operations?
15:39
ah nvm, i somehow crashed it so it restarted locked ^^
BG
15:54
Boob Grabber
In reply to this message
Works on iOS devices when selecting βhideβ, both Safari and Chrome browser
S
Z
16:21
In reply to this message
If keys.erl crashes, then the key gets locked.
Send me your log immediately after this happens.
Send me your log immediately after this happens.
Z
18:04
Zack
In reply to this message
I think that I am a little better than your average programmer. It isn't fair to expect other people to do what I can.
18:26
Deleted Account
two 1080ti and one 1050ti mined 0.03veo one day
P|
18:27
Paul N. | BAND (π
) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
I think I'm a lot better than an average programmer, so I think my estimation is correct. π
S
19:55
Sy
In reply to this message
i tried a spend via curl and even tho the keys were locked it returned "Ok", "Ok"
Z
19:55
Zack
In reply to this message
Thanks for sharing.
I'll update it to give a different message when it fails.
I'll update it to give a different message when it fails.
21:05
Deleted Account
any updates on AMD miners?
Stas Oskin joined group by link from Group
SO
22:30
Stas Oskin
Hi, any OTC deals?
OK
22:31
O K
Check discord trading channel and reddit.com/r/amoveotrader, should not be too hard to find someone
22:32
I think there is more success on the discord, but I'm not really sure
22:44
Deleted Account
Trying to run the new veo miner for windows, and it's opening fine, but only detecting 2 GPUs out of 5
22:44
any ideas?
OK
22:45
O K
:/ I wanted to try it but decided against it
22:45
He takes a fee, you should ask him on reddit
22:45
Deleted Account
Okay
IP
22:45
I P
what new miner?
OK
22:46
O K
Someone released a closed source, Claymore-like-fee miner with (alleged) minor improvements
22:47
Deleted Account
Well if you don't have to run a new instance of cmd per card that's a plus right there lol
OK
22:47
O K
I agree, maybe it gives better hashrate too
22:47
I will let the pioneers like you figure that out though
22:47
Deleted Account
With the less tax on the CPU it "should"
22:47
If I can get all my GPU's to work
22:47
Looks like I should be pulling a little over 2Gh per card
OK
22:47
O K
You did the comma thing, 0,1,2
22:48
Deleted Account
Yeah
22:56
Fixed it
22:56
Replaced the 0,1,2 etc
22:56
to the word "ALL"
OK
22:56
O K
Neat
B
23:02
Ben
@potat_o if i leave the Pool page with the Mining Tab open loaded with my Key, at some Point the Address change and i see different stats.
23:03
is that a glitch or WAD?
OK
23:03
O K
Thanks for reporting Ben. Do you use chrome?
B
23:03
Ben
yes i do
OK
23:03
O K
I have that issue on my list
23:03
Yes I've noticed I have that problem with Chrome, but not Firefox
B
23:03
Ben
ok, the ignore me ;)
OK
23:03
O K
No, I appreciate you letting me know anyway
23:03
Thank you
23:03
Deleted Account
I have the issue as well
23:03
No big deal
23:04
Just can be annoying at times
B
23:04
Ben
scared the hell out of me first time
23:04
Deleted Account
lul
B
23:04
Ben
losing 100 Veo shocked me a bit π
OK
23:04
O K
π Yes, it doesn't involve account keys, only aesthetics. Some people got excited rather than scared
B
23:05
Ben
yeah, rich for a second ;)
23:05
Deleted Account
yup had that happen lol
OK
23:05
O K
If you have the same issue on firefox, let me know. It's my default browser and I don't tend to have this issue
23:05
Deleted Account
I'll give it a shot
B
23:05
Ben
i have no Firefox, will test it with SAFARI
OK
23:05
O K
Even better, thanks
B
23:06
Ben
can confirm, safari same issues, just happend
OK
23:06
O K
Good to know, thank you
B
23:06
Ben
yw. like your Pool frontend btw. very clean and informative.
OK
23:07
O K
Thank you, I've been trying to make improvements every day. It's a long list
23:10
I want to participate in Zack's market RvibrpOijW1S9UyAvCW2q6uR/0OMgML/bHbOriSBvGk= ... He said to use the wallet on the same http://159.89.106.253:8080/wallet.html http://159.89.106.253:8080/explorer.html node, but I'm still not certain how to participate. Does anyone know if there is a doc on the github? I've been looking but so far haven't found the right one
B
23:11
it is leaping into Diff
23:11
hard to read
OK
23:11
O K
Good idea
Z
OK
23:11
O K
You would need to start with step 1)
B
23:12
Ben
Market sounds amazing, count me in ;)
OK
23:12
O K
I know how to view it on the explorer, I do not know any step aside from accessing the market address and getting to the wallet page
Z
23:12
Zack
1) open the light wallet from the same node that is running he market.
OK
23:12
O K
Done
23:12
2) ?
Z
23:12
Zack
2) make a channel that is open long enough to participate
23:13
Like 4000 blocks.
23:13
I only have 10 Veo on the server, so don't make a massive channel and use up all my funds
OK
23:14
O K
Okay
Z
23:16
Zack
Once you have a channel, the interface for making bets in the market should appear
OK
23:16
O K
The channel funds are coming out of an account that I load from private key, or from you, or from me but locks up yours?
Z
23:17
Zack
We both lock up funds into the channel.
OK
23:17
O K
Say 0.5 or 0.25 would be appropriate then?
Z
23:17
Zack
That way you can both win and lose money
23:17
Yeah, either of those amounts are fine.
OK
23:18
O K
how long should channel last, should be 4000 or so, what about channel delay?
23:18
0 delay should be okay?
23:21
I chose 0 and saved the channel state
Z
23:23
Zack
Channel delay should be at least 100.
23:23
4000 is good. That gives enough time to participate.
OK
23:23
O K
Oops, okay good info to go in the doc
23:23
Should I back up?
Z
23:24
Zack
If the channel was made, then you are fine.
23:24
I thought <100 delay would fail
OK
23:24
O K
The difference between price and amount ?
Z
23:24
Zack
So do you have the channel made?
23:25
If <100 delay worked, then you found a bug
OK
23:25
O K
It showed the markets options ?
23:25
Z
23:26
Zack
Looks like you have a channel
OK
23:26
O K
I guess I found a π
23:26
Back up or proceed?
Z
23:26
Zack
Maybe it rounds up to 100 internally or something
OK
23:27
O K
π€·ββοΈ
Z
23:27
Zack
I see that one person has a channel with the server.
P
23:28
Pan
Zack,
How do you judge the below crash on LN of BTC:
How do you judge the below crash on LN of BTC:
Z
23:29
Zack
yes, it says you have a delay of 0.
23:30
Pan, I can look at this after I am done with OK.
OK
23:31
O K
I'm ready to make bet, just wondering what values to put in "price" and "amount"
Z
23:32
Zack
In reply to this message
price is from 0-100
If you put 50, then it is a 50-50 bet and you can double your money.
If you put 50, then it is a 50-50 bet and you can double your money.
OK
23:32
O K
Like odds?
Z
23:32
Zack
if you put 20, then you can get 5x as much money, but it is less likely that someone will want to bet with you.
OK
23:32
O K
Cool
Z
23:33
Zack
yeah, it is a percentage chance odds
MF
23:33
Mr Flintstone
are there any open orders already?
OK
23:33
O K
I'm making one
P
23:33
Pan
ππ
OK
23:33
O K
I want to 4x my money, I think that is the right odds
23:33
so I will put 25
23:34
23:34
I clicked make bet, but nothing changed. It's difficult to know if I should click "make bet" again. I would consider that a problem
Z
23:34
Zack
correct
23:35
one of the numbers should have disappeared
OK
23:35
O K
They did not, I'll try again
Z
23:35
Zack
I think "amount" will disappear if you succeed.
23:35
Can you open the browser console?
OK
23:35
I made very sure this time. Yes I will
23:36
Is any of this data sensitive?
Z
23:36
Zack
no. only your private key is secret.
23:37
I got an error in the log.
23:40
it says the channel state you computed is different from mine, but I am looking and I don't see a difference.
23:41
I guess the thing to do is to close the channel, and try to make a new channel with a longer delay
OK
23:41
O K
I clicked close channel, but I think that erred as well
23:42
Z
23:42
Zack
did the new_channel tx get included in a block? did you download the header for the block where the new_channel tx is included?
P
23:44
Pan
In reply to this message
This situation may be similar to above problem occurred on LN of BTC, which worrys me much.
23:45
worriedπ
Z
23:45
Zack
ok, my node says that the new_channel tx was included in a block
23:45
so it should be possible for you to close it now. You need to get all the headers first.
OK
23:49
O K
you need to close all smart contracts before you can close the channel
23:49
After getting the headers
Z
23:49
Zack
so close the bets first before you try closing the channel.
23:49
wait, this means you successfully made bets
23:49
so you don't have to close the channel
OK
23:50
O K
I admit to clicking make bet once again
23:50
This time the amount did disappear
23:50
I didn't notice at first
Z
23:50
Zack
oh, I guess it was preventing you from making bets because the new_channel tx wasn't included in a block yet
OK
23:50
O K
Good to know
23:50
Neat, the market has updated
Z
23:50
Zack
great
OK
23:51
O K
23:51
I will probably make more bets with different odds today too
23:52
Lots of interesting docs about how these markets can stop wars and sexual abuse, but we need one about how they can be used to help gambling addicts
B
23:53
Ben
currently i have no clue how that is supposed to work, we need a good Manual and a better Interface :P
OK
23:53
O K
Once Zack lays down what he wants to see as foundation for the doc, I will go through and make sure it is clear to a noob like me
Z
23:56
Zack
ok, I copied all the question/answers into some docs.
I am running tests to make sure having a minimum delay of 100 still works correctly.
I am running tests to make sure having a minimum delay of 100 still works correctly.
OK
23:57
O K
Does a 100 block delay mean people will normally have to wait 100 blocks after making a channel to make a bet?
Z
23:58
Zack
no. it means if someone tries closing the channel at the wrong state, I have 100 blocks to prevent them from stealing server funds.
23:58
and similarly, if I try closing at the wrong state, they have 100 blocks to stop me from stealing their funds.
30 March 2018
Z
00:00
Zack
@changpan I looked at the links your provided. It seems like the attack you are asking about is when someone tries to close the channel at the wrong state. Which I just explained to OK here ^.
MF
00:01
Mr Flintstone
I think I just opened a channel
Z
00:01
Zack
the node says that 2 people have channels with it now
MF
00:03
Mr Flintstone
if I create the same order as ok, is there a time preference on who gets filled first?
Z
00:03
Zack
Mr Flintstone's channel has a delay of 100
00:04
In reply to this message
yeah OK has time preference.
But you could do a slightly higher price, like 26, and then you would be in the front of the line.
But you could do a slightly higher price, like 26, and then you would be in the front of the line.
MF
00:04
Mr Flintstone
also, is price integer only or can I use decimals
Z
00:04
Zack
I think it accepts decimals? no harm in trying.
00:04
internally it is stored as an integer between 0 an 10 000.
MF
00:04
Mr Flintstone
ok
00:04
so we can go to basis points
Z
00:04
Zack
so more than 2 decimal places probably doesn't make a difference
MF
00:04
Mr Flintstone
thatβs good enough I think yeah
Z
00:06
Zack
if you make the same bet as OK, then the graph doesn't look any different.
MF
00:06
Mr Flintstone
well the y axis should change
Z
00:06
Zack
oh yeah. OK bet 0.25
MF
00:08
Mr Flintstone
hmm
00:08
I clicked make bet twice and didnβt get any numbers to disappear
Z
00:08
Zack
is your new channel tx included in a block already?
00:08
looks like it isn't in the mempool.
00:09
how much veo did you put into the channel?
MF
00:09
Mr Flintstone
what tx are you referring to specifically
00:09
0.25
Z
00:09
Zack
I see a new channel tx with 0.25 veo in the top block
00:09
does make bet work now?
MF
00:10
Mr Flintstone
Yep
Z
00:10
Zack
great
MF
00:10
Mr Flintstone
Nice
00:10
It showed up on the depth chart
Z
00:10
Zack
I can see them both in the chart
00:10
since the bets are unmatched, you can cancel and remake them at no cost.
OK
00:11
O K
Hmm,
MF
00:11
Mr Flintstone
Weβre taking the same side
OK
00:11
O K
Which would take 1 block to cancel, 1 more to remake?
Z
00:11
Zack
no, it is instant.
MF
00:11
Mr Flintstone
No should be instant
00:12
As fast as you can communicate
Z
00:12
Zack
as soon as someone make a bet than can match against yours, you will no longer be able to cancel
00:12
because the first period hasn't started yet.
00:13
from then on, it will match every 200 blocks.
00:13
Because I set up this market to do it every 200.
OK
00:13
O K
00:15
Ah, I was going to ask, when clicking "lookup market" what do you think about having a button that says "download market" so that we can view the ?smart contract?
Z
00:16
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/light_node/market.md
I finished the tests and pushed the update. here is the new docs.
I finished the tests and pushed the update. here is the new docs.
00:17
the market smart contract is hard-coded into the light node. You can't participate in a smart contract that the light node isn't built to use.
00:18
It is pretty unreadable in compiled format though
OK
00:19
O K
AAAAAA
Z
00:19
Zack
you can recompile the same code using this: https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_core/src/channels/market.erl
00:20
you can read the smart contracts normally here: https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/tree/master/apps/amoveo_core/priv
00:20
market.fs and oracle_bet.fs are both being used for this.
00:21
They are written in the chalang language, which is documented in it's own github repository: https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/chalang
00:29
11-minute blocks
OK
00:29
O K
Avg since 12000, or?
Z
00:29
Zack
Blue means "true" on the graph?
OK
00:30
O K
I bet true yes
Z
00:30
Zack
Average of 20 most recent. I just read it off the light node
OK
00:31
O K
Will you add a bet yourself?
MF
00:31
Mr Flintstone
Iβll match a small bet for educational purposes
00:32
If anyone wants to
Z
00:32
Zack
If mining is slow, that just gives us more time for it to become fast.
If it is fast, then we will finish the batch soon before there is a chance to slow down.
If it is fast, then we will finish the batch soon before there is a chance to slow down.
OK
00:32
O K
Sounds fun, I will make the same offer to a different person from who accepts Flinstone's
Z
00:33
Zack
Remember, it only matches trades every 200 blocks. So you can test it once today.
00:34
You can use
make multi-quick to launch 3 nodes as a test net, and make lots of bets easily. You can set the batch period to 1 block.
OK
00:35
O K
Cool. I am still willing to make an (un)favorable bet with real veo in small amounts to stimulate community involvement
MF
00:35
Mr Flintstone
so if I try to match a trade with someone, but the 200 block period is not up, I can still retract my bet? Or no
Z
00:36
Zack
You can cancel your trade any time until it gets matched.
00:36
Once it is matched you can still get your money out. Just make a bet in the opposite direction.
00:37
If your bet is partially matched, it is more troublesome. You can't get the money out until it is completely matched.
00:37
You can take out the part that was already matched.
00:38
This is why it is probably better to make several small bets instead of 1 big one.
00:38
It is also harder to cut in line like @Jbreezy0 did, if you have lots of little bets at different prices.
00:39
Make sure to save your channel state for security, even though my server is honest and will let you download a copy if you lose it.
OK
00:39
O K
So I could open a channel, with say 1 veo, but only make bets with small portions of the channel I opened
Z
00:39
Zack
It isn't good to trust the server
OK
00:40
O K
And only opening the channel has the fees
Z
00:40
Zack
Yes, I think I set it up so that all the fee is in making the channel. So betting has no cost.
00:41
I would have to double check.
Making and canceling a bet is an easy way to test. To see if you have he same balance after
Making and canceling a bet is an easy way to test. To see if you have he same balance after
OK
00:43
O K
Does the channel state need to be saved after each bet, or only once?
Z
00:44
Zack
In reply to this message
after each bet.
I think the gui makes a warning telling you if you need to save
I think the gui makes a warning telling you if you need to save
00:44
and after you cancel a bet.
OK
00:44
O K
Yes I only just noticed this though
00:45
I think when "amount" disappears, a String above "check if any bets have been settled" stating "Bet successful. Channel state needs to be saved" would be very helpful for new users
00:46
I can see if that's a PR I'm capable of making after I eat something
Z
00:55
Zack
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_http/priv/external_web/channels.js#L148
Maybe this will help you get started.
This is where the current warning is programmed in javascript.
Maybe this will help you get started.
This is where the current warning is programmed in javascript.
B
01:15
Ben
against what are you placing your Bet?
01:15
i mean against what event?
Z
01:16
betting on this: The difficulty at height 14001 according to wallet.html is above 2006 terahashes per block.
B
01:16
Ben
ah cool
01:17
where is the Diff currently?
Z
B
01:18
Ben
ok, but i dont get the graph
01:18
that is non human readble
01:19
at least non-nerd human
OK
Z
01:19
Zack
it is a volume depth graph. Very typical for trading interfaces.
B
01:20
Ben
i thoght we do a bet
01:20
if we do a bet i want to see my odds
B
01:21
Ben
again, what does the x and y axis tell me?
01:21
is that time, money or number of aliens in my town?
Z
01:22
Zack
y is the quantity of veo being bet.
x is the price.
Just like all market depth charts.
x is the price.
Just like all market depth charts.
B
01:22
Ben
i just try to be devils advocate, dont take me serious.
OK
B
01:24
Ben
honestly even if i know now what x and y is it does not help me to understand if someone took a bet against the condition or with the condition
01:25
i like the whole thing, great stuff, but far far away from beeing usable
01:25
at least to me.
01:25
i'm only a dull miner, maybe not the target audience :P
Z
01:28
Zack
blue means "yes". I added this to the todo list. it will be fixed soon.
01:28
Thanks for the suggestion.
B
OK
01:55
O K
Yes, at a price of 25
Z
01:55
Zack
Correct. And he bet at 1:3 odds.
So if his bet is matched, he can win 0.75 Veo
So if his bet is matched, he can win 0.75 Veo
B
01:56
Ben
yeah but no one with a bit of brain will take that bet.
Z
01:56
Zack
What price would you bet for false?
OK
01:56
O K
There are some real doom and gloomers around here sometimes
B
01:56
Ben
i woul bet 100 Veo that the Nethash will be above that.
Z
01:57
Zack
In reply to this message
His comment means that he thinks there is a > 25% chance the difficulty will increase. So it is the opposite of doom and gloom. It is a bullish statement.
B
01:57
Ben
yeah, we all do that.
OK
01:57
O K
No, you misunderstand me
01:57
I'm saying I think a doom and gloomer would take the bet
Z
01:57
Zack
Oh. My mistake
OK
01:58
O K
Not that he's one
01:58
Ben, will you add a small bet?
B
01:59
Ben
as soon as i understand how that is working for sure.
OK
02:02
O K
Is
createElement("br"); a line break?
Z
02:03
Zack
Yes. This is normal javascript and HTML.
</br> is a line break, and that is how you make it in js.
</br> is a line break, and that is how you make it in js.
OK
02:03
O K
Good with the html, the javascript is semi-new for me π thanks
02:04
Besides some pure coding lessons I've done that didn't involve any GUI
Z
02:04
Zack
You can pick it up fast. I use few features
OK
02:08
O K
Is it generally better to do many small PR, or fewer larger PR
02:09
I don't want to spam you with small changes but it may be easier to review them that way
02:09
making the small changes helps me familiarize myself
Z
02:09
Zack
More smaller ones is better.
Because if you do something wrong in one place, I have to reject the whole pr.
Because if you do something wrong in one place, I have to reject the whole pr.
OK
02:09
O K
π
Z
02:10
Zack
It is less spam with smaller prs because I dont have to review the same code repeatedly
OK
03:13
O K
"update balance of off-chain assets" is just a query, like check balance, right?
03:14
Having any fields filled out while clicking that button can't cause damage - ?
Z
03:15
Zack
Correct.
If it was designed better we wouldn't need that button. It would update the displayed assets automatically
If it was designed better we wouldn't need that button. It would update the displayed assets automatically
OK
03:17
O K
Do you feel similarly about "current height", "x per block", type statisitics?
03:17
β In the future they should update automatically?
Z
03:19
Zack
No. That button contacts a full node.
03:28
We don't want to spam the full node needlessly
OK
03:28
O K
I understand
03:31
Deleted Account
On a side note whoever made this new miner, you are amazing, and thank you.
Z
03:31
Deleted Account
Yes
Z
03:32
Zack
great, im glad it works for you.
Does it mine as quickly as the other miners?
Does it mine as quickly as the other miners?
03:32
Deleted Account
Faster
03:32
Free'd up about 40% CPU
Z
03:33
Zack
that is good
OK
03:33
O K
Will you post a screenshot of the console?
03:33
Deleted Account
One sec
03:33
It'll be from my phone, so it may not be pretty
03:34
03:34
Is that what you're looking for?
OK
03:34
O K
Yes exactly
03:35
Looks pretty clean
03:36
Deleted Account
Indeed, the only difference I noticed was about a 6 degree rise in temps
OK
03:36
O K
I like 'em hot, means theyre workin
03:36
Deleted Account
Lol
03:37
I don't, I haven't gotten my ac hooked up in here yet, and it's hot as hell in here rn
OK
03:37
O K
π
03:37
Deleted Account
60 outside (Feels great) 80 in here at least
03:37
all windows up and fans running for cross vent
03:38
I keep telling myself "at least I don't have to pay for heat in the winter"
Z
03:39
Zack
Can't you put the miner outside?
OK
03:39
O K
I was looking for the miner jpg meme where they wrapped a box around their miner and hooked it up to the window with ducting
Z
03:39
Zack
haha
03:39
Deleted Account
I'm considering getting a grow tent
03:39
and doing it that way
Z
03:41
Zack
people are able to put air conditioners on the outside of their building.
OK
03:41
O K
Oh god, put up some hidden cameras in case you get raided a la kopbusters ... heat signature + verified grow op purchases http://www.neatorama.com/2008/12/07/cops-raid-a-house-to-find-christmas-trees-under-a-grow-light-wheres-the-probable-cause-now/
Z
03:42
Zack
someone grew christmas trees in doors? haha
03:42
Deleted Account
I've considered it, just don't want to buy another outdoor building
03:42
I live in a small town, no heli's
03:44
Something like that
Z
03:45
Zack
Do any of you keep your graphics cards submerged in mineral oil?
03:45
Deleted Account
No
Z
03:45
Zack
looks like it is only $12 a gallon
OK
03:45
O K
I'm not sure that would be good in an "always on" environment ... maybe even worse. Higher specific heat capacity == once it gets hot it never cools off
03:46
Could be wrong
03:46
Deleted Account
Depends on the air circulation
03:46
Have a fan blowing at the bottom and sucking at the top
Z
03:46
Zack
I think the trick is to have some copper pipes going through the oil, and run cool water through the pipes
03:47
Deleted Account
That's more in depth than I really want to go at this point lol
OK
03:47
O K
That would look quite steampunk + cyberpunk
03:47
Deleted Account
Right...
Z
03:47
Zack
It would be even better if the cold water was run-off from a distill, and you used some of the graphics card heat to evaporate the alcohol.
03:48
Deleted Account
lmao
OK
03:48
O K
Better keep that in the industrial part of town hahaha
Z
03:50
Zack
It looks like plenty of graphics cards get hot enough to boil alcohol. So you don't even need an extra heat source
J
04:38
Jim
In reply to this message
These guys are the only ones I know that take this seriously: https://www.pugetsystems.com/mineral-oil-pc.php - also look at their build recs
Z
S
04:45
Sy
its usually not worth it
04:45
you ruin your hardware, fans die because they got more resistance and for what?
04:46
except you really want to do it and sink some money
04:46
unless*
Z
04:46
Zack
There are 87 accounts with at least 10 Veo.
S
04:46
Sy
there is no advantage to it if you dont have a huge farm and heat problems
Z
04:46
Zack
10 Veo is probably > $1000.
04:47
Sounds too much
04:47
0.25*
Z
04:47
Zack
31 accounts with more than 100 Veo.
S
04:47
Sy
all last trades were above 100$
OK
Z
Z
04:50
Zack
That is like $121
I
04:53
Iridescence
To be fair whale panda can be a generic name....
04:54
Like bear narwhal
04:54
Deleted Account
yeah
04:55
i am getting worse hash on the new miner on 1080ti
Z
05:00
403 accounts in total.
140 have < 1 veo.
77 have > 1 veo and < 2 veo.
35 have > 2 and < 3 veo.
64 have > 3 and < 10.
2810 BL0SzhkFGF
1221 BPZ48brPxb
1000 BNmhDcMPlc
1000 BJ1wvVB5+o
980 BGH+3P768A
928 BATman9wDh
586 BCL7MRnn7l
533 BMRH4mk7zE
450 BLPp9VAFOG
378 BOvlUiLRFe
354 BDGmaFo6kp
333 BMK+iq9hVx
298 BLTzJQfChB
287 BLvrQn16BF
286 BGqJUIdev2
253 BCaX/3/hOg
230 BEUPZZqVe7
228 BB8mWdJFzj
202 BKZd6jZL3j
202 BHX8oOyq5u
199 BKfZovaFWq
158 BI6PuRnjBC
149 BGNr4Z4Mrb
149 BEwzJoMuno
139 BFuPYRbXEr
131 BOD38UZbBt
127 BKdkHXUeBI
125 BDKxXaT9ye
110 BEPnN0MDaj
105 BNauA+gKG3
102 BCjdlkTKyF
99 BOSSzaRZ8v
84 BKLR0ENaMR
81 BJdnBP8Ksi
140 have < 1 veo.
77 have > 1 veo and < 2 veo.
35 have > 2 and < 3 veo.
64 have > 3 and < 10.
2810 BL0SzhkFGF
1221 BPZ48brPxb
1000 BNmhDcMPlc
1000 BJ1wvVB5+o
980 BGH+3P768A
928 BATman9wDh
586 BCL7MRnn7l
533 BMRH4mk7zE
450 BLPp9VAFOG
378 BOvlUiLRFe
354 BDGmaFo6kp
333 BMK+iq9hVx
298 BLTzJQfChB
287 BLvrQn16BF
286 BGqJUIdev2
253 BCaX/3/hOg
230 BEUPZZqVe7
228 BB8mWdJFzj
202 BKZd6jZL3j
202 BHX8oOyq5u
199 BKfZovaFWq
158 BI6PuRnjBC
149 BGNr4Z4Mrb
149 BEwzJoMuno
139 BFuPYRbXEr
131 BOD38UZbBt
127 BKdkHXUeBI
125 BDKxXaT9ye
110 BEPnN0MDaj
105 BNauA+gKG3
102 BCjdlkTKyF
99 BOSSzaRZ8v
84 BKLR0ENaMR
81 BJdnBP8Ksi
05:00
Deleted Account
wow i am probably in top 50%
05:01
lol
Z
05:01
Zack
you just need 2 veo to be in the top 50%.
05:01
Deleted Account
yeah thankfully i am there
05:02
with this kind of supply i am not sure how market will value veo. i mean when it gets on exchanges
05:02
ppl dont like fractional ownership while the low supply should price it high
05:02
maybe miliveo will be the real currency of choice
Z
05:03
Zack
Should I make a BTC-Veo exchange?
05:03
Deleted Account
that should be a good idea
05:03
easier trades, more liquidity for miners
05:03
fuck someone has 2800 veo
05:04
lol
Z
05:04
Zack
it's the developer reward. I wont get it for months.
I
05:04
Iridescence
I think that's Zack...
05:04
Deleted Account
oh ok
05:04
so then the real rich is the 1200 one
05:05
i wish i had so many cards to burn
J
05:05
Jim
List BTC-MVEO for starters
OK
05:06
O K
If you were going to do MVeo (not saying one way or the other) I would think you would want the wallet to reflect that too
05:06
I'm not sure it's really advantageous
05:07
People have begun to have a feel for their veo, it could be confusing
Z
05:09
Zack
we could have a switch in the light node to change it between veo and miliveo.
I remember I once sold like 0.04 milibitcoins, and we both thought it was 0.04 bitcoin.
Luckily I realized the mistake in time and was able to catch him to pay the correct amount.
I remember I once sold like 0.04 milibitcoins, and we both thought it was 0.04 bitcoin.
Luckily I realized the mistake in time and was able to catch him to pay the correct amount.
OK
05:11
O K
If the light node switched the number in real time, that would be helpful. Things like that that should be obvious can be very painful for people with even slight dyscalculia
05:11
Deleted Account
yeah lets move to MVeo. personally i decimals bad for mental math and psychological state ;)
OK
05:12
O K
Switching to Mveo just means more decimals when dealing in BTC π
05:13
Deleted Account
Wow the guy that has 2100...wow
Z
05:13
Zack
I don't have it yet. like 9 months to go.
I
05:14
Iridescence
Zack deserves all of the VEO
05:14
And more
Z
05:16
Zack
the 2 accounts at exactly 1000 are suspicious. I bet they are both Kassel.
S
05:16
Sy
wasnt there a big cpu miner early?
05:16
batman?
OK
05:16
O K
yeah batty boy
S
05:16
Sy
he has to be somewhere too...
05:16
but yeah at least one 1000 account is connected to another
OK
05:16
O K
928 BATman9wDh
Z
05:17
Zack
I don't think Batman got 2000 though
S
05:17
Sy
oh xD
05:17
not that bad of a position i got there...wont catch the next one tho xD
OK
05:47
O K
496 seconds per block
05:47
Deleted Account
@Simon3456 - you probably wont need the next one after this. your search is over
05:48
π
OK
05:49
that mind change through with the recent price indications
05:50
quick question to the broader forum here - what is your take on the privacy aspects. if a crypto ever becomes the reserve world currency, would it be BTC or would it be a privacy based coin?
05:50
what're your opinions?
05:50
i am thinking - why would nation states adopt a currency that tells everyone what they have and what they do with their money
MF
OK
05:51
O K
In reply to this message
The idea of crypto is that nation states will not be deciding this issue
MF
05:52
Mr Flintstone
looks like some other orders are in the book!
05:52
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
see- nation states wont go away, but most of them would love to see dollar being replaced by a currency that no one has complete control on
MF
05:53
Mr Flintstone
but they will go away if they have no control over the money
Z
05:53
Zack
The sooner I get these taxes done, the sooner I can focus on Amoveo better
MF
05:53
Mr Flintstone
they will overspend. this is almost a certainty
05:53
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
they dont have control on dollar today outside US and i bet china and russia will give what not to use something else
OK
05:53
O K
In reply to this message
Nation states like their fiat currencies as-is, because they can tax everyone's money straight out of their pockets with inflation. Crypto is the antithesis of that.
MF
05:54
Mr Flintstone
Governments today fund themselves with their local currency
OK
05:54
O K
The dollar replaced means their own homeland currency is replaced too.
05:54
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
but lets say when china trades with japan or australia or even india, the default is USD
05:55
In reply to this message
not really, national currencies will stay but they will hold reserrves of crypto maybe?
MF
05:55
Mr Flintstone
sure, but this doesnβt have anything to do with the money that the government spends specifically. Trade is typically not done in a centrally planned context
05:55
Deleted Account
to buy oil and potatoes
05:56
In reply to this message
yes but that's why they hold USD reserves, to enable traders to import
MF
05:56
Mr Flintstone
idk what we are arguing about
05:56
Deleted Account
i am trying to get your thoughts on if international trade ever move to crypto - would it be BTC or some privacy coin which will see the bulk usage
05:57
current literature says that some crypto will eventually replace USD as global international reserve
05:57
and there will be a chasm of valuation between that crypto and the rest
05:57
rest will be for use, that one will also replace gold - so run into trillions
05:58
all this based on what i have read so far
OK
05:58
O K
I think privacy coins are anti-state, and will be actively fudded and campaigned against by states, associated with terrorism, money laundering, drugs, and sex trafficking ... But I think for people and our future, privacy aspects will be indispensable
06:00
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
hmm true but i do think they will actively use it also - to bypass international regulations, do secret arms deals, provide under the radar financial aid etc
Z
06:01
Zack
Features like privacy can be added to any blockchain by hard fork.
Bitcoin could hard fork to switch to Amoveo's code base.
The cryptocurrency and the software it uses are are completely different things.
Cryptocurrency is a relationship between people.
Bitcoin could hard fork to switch to Amoveo's code base.
The cryptocurrency and the software it uses are are completely different things.
Cryptocurrency is a relationship between people.
06:02
Deleted Account
so far i have read 2 types of theses - 1. BTC already has a huge lead and so will become the default reserve and 2. Snowden types - that the open ledger is a fatal flat for BTC to become an effective reserve and so something like Zcash will win
Z
06:02
Zack
the bitcoin tokens could move onto a Zcash software, and we could abandon the bitcoin software.
06:02
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
true but BTC core devs will probably never do that HF, it'll be a different team which then can become one of the million forks
06:03
In reply to this message
hmmm interesting - i am more of a noob here so help me understand - if that happens then how would that affect BTC holders and Zcash holders from today?
Z
06:04
Zack
I am just saying that you need to consider the community and the software as separate things.
Just because one community wins doesn't mean their current software will.
Just because one community wins doesn't mean their current software will.
06:04
Just because one software wins doesn't mean the current community using that software will.
06:06
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
i dont think i got it completely. if btc wins (becomes reserve) then long term btc holders automatically win right ?
Z
06:06
Zack
My goal is to make some features in Amoveo which will eventually be incorporated into the world reserve cryptocurrency.
I think turing complete contracts in the lightning network might be a feature that would be used in a world reserve cryptocurrency.
I think turing complete contracts in the lightning network might be a feature that would be used in a world reserve cryptocurrency.
06:07
Deleted Account
ok so you are saying that if you had to predict - you would envision amoveo to take that role :)
06:07
nice
06:07
i am on board
06:07
question is - would you think to make that happen you will need to include privacy elements - especially shielded addresses and transactions
Z
06:08
Zack
If the bitcoin community wins, then holders of bitcoin will get rich.
They might be using Amoveo software, or Zcash software to secure their bitcoins at that point.
bitcoin's current software isn't scalable enough or private enough.
They might be using Amoveo software, or Zcash software to secure their bitcoins at that point.
bitcoin's current software isn't scalable enough or private enough.
06:08
Deleted Account
yeah so that answers it
Z
06:08
Zack
I am a fan of Mimble Wimble. I think it is compatible with our turing complete state channels.
06:08
Deleted Account
privacy is a must for that reserve you are saying
06:08
oh yes
06:08
have you tried their testnet
06:08
?
Z
06:09
Zack
Mimble Wimble is an idea. I don't know what testnet you are talking about.
06:09
Deleted Account
there is an active gitter community testing an implementation
06:09
i believe it is testnet 2
Z
06:10
Zack
In reply to this message
no. I am not saying that. I am not sure if privacy is important for this.
06:10
Deleted Account
ok
06:11
BTW smart contracts on lightning network - would that keep the contracts themselves visible to all or there can be secret contracts that's visible only by permissioned parties
06:11
?
Z
06:13
Zack
only the 2 participants of a contract can see the contract, unless one of them tries to cheat or disappears. then it gets published on-chain.
06:16
Deleted Account
nice
06:26
Zack - did you get a response from Leigh?
Z
06:55
Zack
who is Leigh?
07:16
Deleted Account
on twitter
07:17
Leigh Cuen
Z
07:17
Zack
yes, she said she doesn't want to write about Amoveo
07:17
Deleted Account
lol
07:17
why
Z
07:18
Zack
She has like a checklist, she needs to write about a project that meets a bunch of requirements
07:19
Deleted Account
hmm ok
07:19
a checklist is usually not the most pragmatic way to write about an emerging space but whatever
Z
07:19
Zack
I think if we want to get published in places like coin telegraph, or whatever she works for, we should just write up exciting articles and submit them.
07:21
Deleted Account
yeah but let this develop organically
Z
07:21
Zack
We already have enough English speakers. I think we should try and get someone like cryptonoticias or forklog to publish something about us
07:23
Deleted Account
yeah, however your chain is complicated enough to preclude folks like to me to really do justice to it
07:23
maybe to start with all articles will need your contribution
Z
07:24
Zack
Many blockchain people already understand lightning network and they already understand ethereum smart contracts.
It doesn't seem that complicated to put the 2 together.
It doesn't seem that complicated to put the 2 together.
07:26
Any discussion of the oracle would be complicated.
But if they just see the markets in action, I think that they will understand enough of the oracle without needing more explanation.
But if they just see the markets in action, I think that they will understand enough of the oracle without needing more explanation.
07:49
Deleted Account
i do understand the topics somewhat (lightning and smart contracts) but i dont understand the implications of clubbing them. I think you are underestimating the changes you have made vis-a-vis existing blockchains. for e.g. the secret contracts part was a guess and it has its own set of implications. no other current chain has secret contracts as far as i know. 2 of them are planning to launch in 2019 if i am not wrong - keep network and enigma but they are going to use SMPC
07:50
but their contracts will never get published and so caters to a set of different needs - secret sharing of healthcare data etc
07:50
in your case it'll be more related to secret payments etc
07:50
i am guessing here
07:51
any article needs to delve into the implications of tech to be attractive read - basically make the readers think about something, they havent done so - so far and then keep it open for them to extrapolate
Z
07:53
Zack
I think we should explain how big and important the market for derivatives is.
Hundreds of trillions of dollars annually.
Then we explain how Amoveo allows for scalable markets for derivatives secured by the blockchain.
It isn't so important what is or isn't secret.
Hundreds of trillions of dollars annually.
Then we explain how Amoveo allows for scalable markets for derivatives secured by the blockchain.
It isn't so important what is or isn't secret.
07:53
Deleted Account
yeah i know - i just used it as an example
07:53
yeah derivatives it is
07:54
i havent found time to delve into the oracle so far
Z
07:55
Zack
We might even change how the Oracle works if we find problems with it.
It isn't so important to explain the details of how the Oracle is honest. That would be very complex.
It is enough to see it work in practice.
It isn't so important to explain the details of how the Oracle is honest. That would be very complex.
It is enough to see it work in practice.
07:55
Deleted Account
this is going to sound noob - but isnt the derivative use case dependent on oracle ?
Z
07:57
Zack
Most people who use bitcoin don't know all the inner workings that make bitcoin work.
We should just say the outcome. That the Oracle allows the blockchain to learn true facts, so the blockchain can judge the outcome of bets.
We should just say the outcome. That the Oracle allows the blockchain to learn true facts, so the blockchain can judge the outcome of bets.
07:58
If someone really cares, then they can read all the technical documents I already wrote.
07:59
Most people who use amoveo don't need to know the technical details.
P
09:02
Pan
In reply to this message
I don't think it as an attack and support the comment:
''FYI this wasn't a hacker, but a user on the LND slack who had a corrupted channel database, restored an old backup, then closed his channels. Because the backup was out of date, his node broadcast old channel states and his channel partners' nodes detected this as fraud and published the penalty transactions.''
So, if I want run the channel by myself, I should carefully backup the state to make sure it's the last state. Otherwise, I have to lose something and be treated as hacker?
It's quite hard for common people to make a fault tolerant system. So, It's not useable and safe for most people.
''FYI this wasn't a hacker, but a user on the LND slack who had a corrupted channel database, restored an old backup, then closed his channels. Because the backup was out of date, his node broadcast old channel states and his channel partners' nodes detected this as fraud and published the penalty transactions.''
So, if I want run the channel by myself, I should carefully backup the state to make sure it's the last state. Otherwise, I have to lose something and be treated as hacker?
It's quite hard for common people to make a fault tolerant system. So, It's not useable and safe for most people.
09:07
I really don't want things progress this way.
Z
09:09
Zack
Yes this is an important problem. I am glad you bring it up. I have spent a lot of time thinking about this.
You can try out the lightning network in a small testnet on your device using
That way you can test out this error.
But I can tell you it does not happen for us.
The Amoveo light nodes do not ever make a tx. Instead they send the info about the tx to a full node, the full node makes the tx, and then the light node verifies that all the information is correct.
This way it is impossible to close the channel at an old state and get punished. The full node will refuse the generate a tx like this.
It is true that forgetting to save the recent state is a security problem. For now I programmed it so you can download a copy of the most recent state from the full node, if you should lose yours.
This is even sort of trust-free.
The attack we are worried about is if the full node could be giving you an old expired channel state where you have money.
the default software I programmed is honest, and you are free to test the server at any time.
Just request a download from the server, and see if it matches your latest saved channel state.
The server can't tell if you are testing it, or if you actually lost your state channel data. So the server is incentivized to be honest.
You can try out the lightning network in a small testnet on your device using
make multi-quickThat way you can test out this error.
But I can tell you it does not happen for us.
The Amoveo light nodes do not ever make a tx. Instead they send the info about the tx to a full node, the full node makes the tx, and then the light node verifies that all the information is correct.
This way it is impossible to close the channel at an old state and get punished. The full node will refuse the generate a tx like this.
It is true that forgetting to save the recent state is a security problem. For now I programmed it so you can download a copy of the most recent state from the full node, if you should lose yours.
This is even sort of trust-free.
The attack we are worried about is if the full node could be giving you an old expired channel state where you have money.
the default software I programmed is honest, and you are free to test the server at any time.
Just request a download from the server, and see if it matches your latest saved channel state.
The server can't tell if you are testing it, or if you actually lost your state channel data. So the server is incentivized to be honest.
MF
09:11
Mr Flintstone
Is there a way to punish the full node if they provide an old channel state?
Z
09:12
Zack
yes, you can stop making channels with them and tell the rest of us what happened. Then we can test it out too.
P
09:27
Pan
In reply to this message
This solution makes sense, however the full node should take the risk, and must be maintained well enough.
Z
09:34
Zack
I am making a new document in the docs/design folder based on this question
09:34
Thank you for asking
N
10:03
is it faster?
Z
10:04
Zack
It seems like it is better for people where cpu is the bottleneck
D
12:20
Denis
In reply to this message
Maybe we should first write about Amoveo in places like Bitcointalk and Steem.
MF
12:24
Mr Flintstone
are we ready for that?
D
12:33
Denis
Amoveo blockchain working for a month now, so why not. Sometimes people make Bitcointalk anouncements mounths before actual release.
IP
12:37
there is 1 good altcoin and 999 scams or just bad, our announcement will drown in that sh*t right now
12:38
i guess a medium or steem article would be great to start promoting the platform
D
12:45
Denis
In reply to this message
Yep, i don't check BTT anouncements for like a year now. But it still can be useful for attracting new people to Amoveo. Steem and medium are good options too, but i think in steem our article also won't get much attention unless we promote it.
N
IP
13:02
I P
In reply to this message
just posting on btt we will through amoveo to that stinky pile of sh*tcoins which i do not think is a right thing to do
N
13:03
NM$L
ok
13:04
Daily discount. wts 5veo@150$
IP
N
13:06
NM$L
veo is veo.
13:07
it doesn's matter veo's price
IP
N
13:09
NM$L
So there is a discount. only 150$π€
D
13:10
Denis
In reply to this message
Anyway BTT post won't hurt Amoveo blockchain or community. But considering current state of Bitcointalk maybe we really should avoid posting there.
N
13:38
Deleted Account
BTT is full of scam now.
P|
14:12
Deleted Account
bitcointalk
S
16:15
Sy
do we have a logo yet?
B
16:18
Ben
did not saw one yet
S
16:28
Sy
k
Z
16:59
Zack
In reply to this message
I like your website, and a list of markets is a good idea.
But I am not using .84 for markets right now.
But I am not using .84 for markets right now.
P|
17:02
oh, the IP
Z
17:10
Deleted Account
Zack So, VQjYhAnv is expired. What is the easiest way to tell expiration of a market?
Z
17:16
Deleted Account
Zack OK I'll manually set to ignore the market.
Currently, the backend asks to nodes and if markets are found automatically add them to database.
Currently, the backend asks to nodes and if markets are found automatically add them to database.
Z
17:18
Zack
In reply to this message
Very cool.
I'll delete it pretty soon. You don't have to do anything.
I'll delete it pretty soon. You don't have to do anything.
17:19
Deleted Account
got it :)
18:08
Deleted Account
Now veoscan checks existing markets at regular interval, and if the market no longer exists in the node it gets deleted.
It'll be exciting to see the list of markets grow with time!
It'll be exciting to see the list of markets grow with time!
Z
Z
21:17
Zack
http://159.89.106.253:8080/explorer.html
I did some upgrades for this interface for markets.
I did some upgrades for this interface for markets.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
Z
22:16
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo-exchange/tree/master
I made a respository where we can write an exchange between bitcoin and Veo.
I made a respository where we can write an exchange between bitcoin and Veo.
B
23:43
Ben
interesting
31 March 2018
B
00:11
Ben
what are the dependencies for that?
Z
00:12
Zack
The only dependency so far is an amoveo full node.
I haven't decided which bitcoin wallet to use.
I haven't decided which bitcoin wallet to use.
OK
00:48
O K
Hey Zack, I'd like to make some cotributions today after testing them with
Step 1)
make multi-quick but there isn't much documentation about it. Step 1)
make multi-quick
00:48
It just completes and is done. How do I interact with the test nodes after step 1?
Z
00:48
Zack
I think there is some documentation in the testing
OK
00:49
O K
I just searched the github, it only really talks about the python tests
Z
00:49
Zack
make attach1 connects to the first one.
OK
00:49
O K
Cool
Z
00:49
Zack
They use ports 3010 3030 and 3020
OK
00:49
O K
Good info to have, I'll add that too later
00:50
I presume then I will have to set up CPU miner for a second on one of them, right? Or can they start loaded with test tokens?
Z
00:51
Zack
You can use the built in erlang miner.
OK
00:51
O K
Got it
Z
00:51
Zack
api:mine_block(). I think
OK
00:51
O K
Thanks
Z
00:52
Zack
I think the first one does start with a positive balance actually
00:52
Of 100 Veo
OK
00:52
O K
Oh cool, that's perfect
Z
01:10
Zack
https://vitalik.ca/general/2018/03/28/plutocracy.html
Vitalik made this post about how voting based governance does not work, and betting based governance might work.
Like I have been saying all along.
Vitalik made this post about how voting based governance does not work, and betting based governance might work.
Like I have been saying all along.
01:11
I wonder if aeternity will still launch with voting style governance?
BG
01:12
Boob Grabber
Iβm a huge fan of meritocracy. The one, whoβs the best for the job to be done, leads for this very task.
Z
01:15
Zack
In reply to this message
Many systems that claim to be meritocratic actually fall short. There is some bribery at some step that breaks it.
Prediction markets actually get more accurate when you try to manipulate them. So it is likely that Futarchy will be better at achieving meritocracy than any other strategy.
Prediction markets actually get more accurate when you try to manipulate them. So it is likely that Futarchy will be better at achieving meritocracy than any other strategy.
B
01:16
Ben
micha hau hier mal nicht so auf die Kacke :P
01:17
Deleted Account
aeternity write a lot codes recently
BG
B
01:22
Ben
hrhr
01:22
@zack you should add a line of Information that a Full Node is required to run the exchanged
Z
01:23
Zack
Ok. The exchange doesn't exist yet. It is basically an empty repository
B
01:23
Ben
ah ok, i did a git clone and tried to run the .sh :P
Z
01:36
Zack
Great. Feel free to help with development.
OK
01:58
Doesn't seem to add any blocks
01:58
Trying to spend from the node to the wallet.html address
Z
02:13
Zack
Did you check your height? I bet it is adding blocks.
OK
02:14
O K
You're right, but the wallet.html "get more headers" button does not update
Z
02:15
Zack
What is the url? There are 3 wallets for 3 nodes
OK
02:15
(local obv)
02:16
but it's from the attach1 node that I'm adding the blocks
Z
02:16
Zack
Oh, it is because the light node expects the hard fork to happen later, and the test net full node is by default starting with all hard forks already done.
02:16
If you want to test out the light node, I guess you would have to edit the forks.erl file so that the test net does the forks at the same height as the main net.
02:17
Or you could edit the light node code to expect the fork sooner.
OK
02:18
O K
"the hard fork"?
Z
02:18
Zack
There are like 3 of them in the forks.erl file
OK
02:18
O K
I see
Z
02:19
Zack
But I think only the one at height 9000 matters. When we changed the POW algorithm
OK
02:19
O K
Ah
Z
02:20
Zack
Change all the 0 to be the same as the integer before.
(4200, 0) becomes (4200, 4200)
(4200, 0) becomes (4200, 4200)
OK
02:22
O K
In which directory is forks.erl? It's not on the github?
Z
02:23
Zack
Apps amoveo_core src consensus forks.erl
OK
02:23
O K
Okay thank you
Z
02:24
Zack
I think we actually had 4 hard forks. But one of them didn't have to be recorded because we changed code that hadn't been used since the Genesis block.
OK
02:28
O K
Great, it's going more as expected now
Z
02:29
Zack
Cool.
I wonder what a better solution would look like.
Maybe the light node should realize we are in test mode and act different?
Maybe we should add a different command to the make file to start in after-fork test mode vs before-fork test mode?
I wonder what a better solution would look like.
Maybe the light node should realize we are in test mode and act different?
Maybe we should add a different command to the make file to start in after-fork test mode vs before-fork test mode?
OK
02:30
O K
That would make sense, another thing I wondered was if all wallets could initialize with a balance, and whether the test-net could start with a test market... For minor aesthetic tests it would save a lot of time
02:30
Some things maybe easier said than done
02:31
I think for people that want to work on the front-end it would be much easier without having to go through so many steps
Z
02:34
Zack
There are several tests written in python.
You can run the first half of the market test, and that will spread money out and make a market.
You can run the first half of the market test, and that will spread money out and make a market.
02:35
python tests/market.py does a little too much...
02:35
You could either open the file and comment something out. Or you can use the python interpreter, load the test library, and run the function.
OK
02:36
O K
Yes, I can comment out the ending
Z
02:37
Zack
It wouldn't hurt to have more python tests
OK
02:43
O K
Is urllib2 another dependency?
Z
02:44
Zack
I am not sure. It does look familiar
02:44
Is that a python thing?
OK
02:45
O K
Yes, python library for opening URLs
02:47
Since I'm on arch, my python defaults to python 3
02:47
The solution was to specify
python2 markets.py
02:48
perhaps it's called urllib3 for python3, I'm not sure
Z
02:48
Zack
ok.
I guess we need a second list of dependencies for running tests
I guess we need a second list of dependencies for running tests
OK
02:49
O K
What happens on ubuntu if you specify
python2 instead of python ? It may perform identically
Z
02:49
Zack
I don't know.
02:50
I think I have used python 3 to run these tests before
02:52
It used to be that the make file would install a particular version of python in the same folder.
But it seemed to me that all versions of python worked fine, and it make installation more complicated, so I got rid of it.
But it seemed to me that all versions of python worked fine, and it make installation more complicated, so I got rid of it.
02:55
It looks like python 3 calls the library urllib.request
OK
02:55
O K
"The urllib2 module has been split across several modules in Python 3 named urllib.request and urllib.error. The 2to3 tool will automatically adapt imports when converting your sources to Python 3" Just FYI. It's not a big deal right now
02:55
π
02:58
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/tests/market.py Line 66, and everything after line 86 ?
Z
03:00
Zack
At the bottom it says
Test
Test2
Market test.
Test
Test2
Market test.
03:01
Comment out market test.
03:01
Maybe comment out test 2, depending on if you want the market to already have bets in it or not.
03:02
I have run a lot of different tests like this
OK
03:06
O K
In reply to this message
Test runs without issue on a fresh make mult-quick, but fails if I comment out only market test
Z
03:06
Zack
Market test is the last thing
03:06
That isn't how time works.
03:07
python tests/market.py
OK
03:07
O K
It's not though
if __name__ == "__main__":
market_test()
test2()
test3()
Z
03:07
Zack
The future can't change the past because of causality
03:07
Oh, I gave bad instructions before
OK
03:07
O K
π
Z
03:07
Zack
In the chat
03:08
The first one is creating the market, it is no good to comment that out
03:08
The second one makes bets.
03:08
The third one closes the market
OK
03:08
O K
Cool, haha, I will go back in time and correct the future now
MF
03:10
Mr Flintstone
lol
OK
03:22
O K
Okay, I've tested twice to be sure.
1) make killall
2) test3() definitely commented out and saved
3) python2 markets.py
4) update height (28)
5) list markets, no live market shown
1) make killall
2) test3() definitely commented out and saved
3) python2 markets.py
4) update height (28)
5) list markets, no live market shown
Z
03:23
Zack
The market is on the 3rd node
OK
03:23
O K
aha
04:18
Deleted Account
guys
04:18
im getting a mining rig
04:19
what do u think a 580 is worth in current market
OK
04:19
O K
RX 580? New?
04:19
Deleted Account
yea
04:19
but crypto is down rn, so i dont think old prices apply
OK
04:19
O K
Heads up β there is no public AMD miner for this coin at this time
04:20
I think between 400 and 500 dollars is a good price for a brand new RX 580 though
04:20
Deleted Account
really
OK
04:20
O K
Maybe you could get one for $350
04:21
Deleted Account
what miner do u recommend using for amoveo
OK
04:22
O K
Probably a GTX 1060, 1070, or 1080Ti depending on your budget
04:23
The 1070s (and probably 1060s) are nice because they require fewer power cables from the PSU ... so it's simpler to run many cards on one PSU. But if you get the ones that need more power cables, you can just run 2 PSU on the same rig
04:27
If you wanted a lower price from a weak-handed miner, you could probably buy used on ebay
04:28
I mean if the thing runs for 60 days or whatever paypal protection offers without issue at full 100% mining output... what more can you really ask for. What happens after 60 days is a dice roll.
04:31
Deleted Account
ok
04:31
just dont think its a good time to buy rn
OK
04:31
O K
It never seems like a good time to buy, but you're probably right
04:32
Deleted Account
since they are still demanding prices as if btc was still 19k
OK
04:32
O K
Prices have come down, I sold a used RX 580 for $600
04:32
If the cards sit on the shelf long enough the prices will come down more, but remember there are a bunch of pissed off gamers who haven't upgraded their rigs in awhile
04:34
Maybe instead of building a whole rig, you could just get the backbone stuff... psu, ram, mobo, cpu, and one gpu to learn the ropes
04:34
And have room to upgrade if you like the hobby, and if prices come down
G
05:08
Greg
sorry for the noob question but what is the easiest way to get an history of the transaction of an Amoveo address?
Z
05:08
Zack
amoveo_utils:address_history(Pubkey).
05:08
that only does 200 most recent blocks
G
05:09
Greg
thanks Zack, is this available in the API?
Z
05:09
Zack
amoveo_utiles:address_history(Pubkey, 10000). would do 10 000 blocks.
05:09
no, it is not available from the api currently.
G
05:10
Greg
ok thanks, that's very helpful.
05:24
In reply to this message
this seems to display the coinbase for each block, I was seeking for a way to get classical spend transactions, not mining transactions. is there another command for that or is it something that should be written in a block explorer?
Z
05:24
Zack
it is displaying both.
05:29
It displays both because miners often complain saying they didn't get paid. This way I can quickly verify that they did get paid when they were supposed to.
G
05:37
Greg
okay thanks, makes sense
Z
05:56
Zack
It prints out a bunch of coinbase reward data, but the list that it returns only contains the history of txs to and from this address
I
08:00
Iridescence
Gosh, mining is so hard now
08:08
so most are still mining like 100MVeos a day π
08:26
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Instead of Mveo. Maybe we should think about using Zatoshi
08:27
its called veo
08:27
Deleted Account
0.00000001 veo called zatoshi
08:27
lol
08:28
Deleted Account
oh ok
Z
08:28
Zack
How about we count in base 6 instead of base 10, and move the hex place over twice, so the block reward is 36.
08:28
Deleted Account
increase block rewards?
08:28
Deleted Account
no he is suggesting different representation of same block rewards
Z
08:29
Zack
base 6 math is so much easier to do in your head
08:29
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
most would find it difficult to comprehend. base 10 is what the world uses
Z
08:29
Zack
yeah, you are probably right.
08:30
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
heard this for the 1st time. always thought shifting decimals was the easiest way
Z
08:30
Zack
if you had 5 units, and got 5 more, then you would have 14.
08:30
if you have 21 and spend 2, now you only have 15.
08:31
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
i personally will have a hard time. i have multiplication tables upto 20 in my head, so decimals will always be my game.
Z
08:32
Zack
it is way simpler than base 10 though
08:32
especially multiplication
08:33
4*5 = 32
08:34
In reply to this message
The base 6 multiplication table is lie 10x smaller than the base 10 one.
09:29
Deleted Account
89 miners in amoveopool2 now
09:29
did they quit?
OK
09:30
O K
Interesting, the hashrate seems up though doesn't it
09:31
Deleted Account
there are big miners in your pool.
09:31
I happened to see one address got 1.5TH hashrate
B
IP
23:05
Deleted Account
nobody chatting today?
Z
23:14
Zack
In reply to this message
These last 3 days have been an important holiday for Europe and the Americas.
B
23:15
Ben
in europe actually tomorrow and Monday will be very important Holidays ;)
23:35
Deleted Account
Easter ?
23:35
OK
Z
23:35
Zack
Right
23:36
Deleted Account
Have you finished the immigration issues?
Z
23:37
Zack
No, but my immigration person doesn't work on the weekend, or during easter holiday
23:37
Deleted Account
OKοΌso you immigrated to a European country?
N
23:51
NM$L
WTS @ $140
1 April 2018
P
00:47
Pan
In reply to this message
Instead, I suggest to take a snapshot of all current balance, then start again with all balance*100(or another large number).
Maybe we can automatically do it without halt by a hard fork update.
Maybe we can automatically do it without halt by a hard fork update.
MF
00:50
Mr Flintstone
why do we need to do that
P
00:51
Pan
reward begins with 128 is good, then half after one year ... until the forever minimal reward 1
MF
00:51
Mr Flintstone
where we put the decimal to define veo is arbitrary and does not need a hard fork
00:52
we could switch to mVeo, or we could even call mVeo veo
P
00:52
Pan
In reply to this message
I think, Zack want our balance unit be smaller but also use the unit name 'veo'
01:00
I think people also doesn't accommodate mUSD, it's not a serious problem but still ugly if pay something with 0.003Veo or 3mVeo
01:09
In reply to this message
If we call current mVeo as Veo, then the balance within program should have a unit of kVeo by default, also feels a little strange.π
OK
01:13
O K
In reply to this message
Yeah, these changes seem a bit arbitrary to me. I doubt there would ever be any sort of plurality community consensus. Just let it be. Or make a third party wallet like electrum is to Bitcoin
01:23
Or we could just use micro-usd as the price for Veo. Then we could all be millionaires already π€
B
02:40
Ben
did i hear Lambos for all?
02:40
;)
04:14
Deleted Account
Zack i have don: git pull, make clean make prod-restart sync:start() but it doesnt start syncinc blocks, am i missing something?
Z
04:31
Deleted Account
Is anyone running a testnet?
Z
04:45
Zack
In reply to this message
You can launch a testnet with 3 nodes all on your computer. That is how we do testing.
04:48
Deleted Account
What do I have to modify?
04:48
In the source
Z
04:49
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/getting-started/quick_start_developer_guide.md
you want to do multi-node tests?
you want to do multi-node tests?
04:50
Deleted Account
I just want to test some demo transactions
Z
04:51
Zack
look at the testing docs.
Z
05:29
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo-exchange
I wrote a bunch more of the centralized exchange today.
I think we can reuse a lot of this code when we make the trustless atomic swap exchange.
I wrote a bunch more of the centralized exchange today.
I think we can reuse a lot of this code when we make the trustless atomic swap exchange.
Jon Snow invited Tingliang
JS
09:36
Jon Snow
Hi Zack where can we find the detailed game theory and market mechanics for amoveo? those i can find on your git hub is quite brief and only at high level. I am looking for similar granularity as what augur's white paper has and a reference people can go into details of the mechanics of the full life cycle of a prediction market. im still not very clear on how a game gets settled and the forking mechanism for disbute.
Z
09:41
Zack
In reply to this message
Are you asking about the Oracle mechanism, or the market mechanism?
09:42
They are very different. The Oracle is on-chain. The market is inside the lightning network
JS
09:44
Jon Snow
sorry, to be specicifc, I was asking the market mechanism
Z
09:45
Zack
Did you see Casey Detrio's talk? It was the major inspiration for the design we are using
09:46
Our market matches trades in single price batches
09:47
The contract is programmed so that the market maker has to regularly publish the price. If he fails to publish, then he loses all the bets.
If the market maker publishes different prices too frequently, this can also cause him to lose all the bets.
If the market maker publishes different prices too frequently, this can also cause him to lose all the bets.
09:48
Each open order is matched at the earliest price possible.
JS
09:48
Jon Snow
I haven't watched it. I will take a look. is there any write up on this? Or are you going to write something more detailed on this topic for Amoveo?
Z
09:49
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/design/limit_order_in_channel.md
Lots of details in this document
Lots of details in this document
09:50
It even has graphics
OK
09:50
O K
π€£
JS
09:52
Jon Snow
nicely handcrafted graphics! Thanks Zack. will take a look.
Z
09:53
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_core/priv/market.fs
There are comments in the smart contract code too, if you want even more details
There are comments in the smart contract code too, if you want even more details
JS
09:53
Jon Snow
Awesome!
Z
09:55
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/apps/amoveo_core/src/channels/market.erl
Here is where we run tests on the market smart contract. It should be exhaustively testing every branch of the smart contract code.
It is also the page we use to compile the smart contract for embedding in the light node.
Here is where we run tests on the market smart contract. It should be exhaustively testing every branch of the smart contract code.
It is also the page we use to compile the smart contract for embedding in the light node.
linky joined group by link from Group
16:00
Deleted Account
We need a more powerful block explorer, which can track every transactions and every address
S
17:54
Sy
yes we do
Z
19:57
Zack
The block explorer already lets you look up any address.
Why do you think we need to be able to look up txs?
Why do you think we need to be able to look up txs?
S
20:40
Sy
you see the current balance
20:40
not at all how this happened, sorry but thats no block explorer, its a simple balance checker
20:41
THIS is how block explorer look
https://bchain.info/BTC/
https://bchain.info/BTC/
S
21:00
Sy
is there a list of commands i can post vs :8081?
Z
21:06
Zack
In reply to this message
That is the only part of an account that the user would want to see.
The nonce doesn't matter for users.
The nonce doesn't matter for users.
S
21:07
Sy
do we really have to explain what a block explorer is? clearly there are more than me and bo asking for transaction overview per account so how come you say thats all we want to see?
21:07
but nvm, its being build anyway
Z
21:10
Zack
TX overview per account would mean storing all of the transactions in ram.
That would get expensive really quick
That would get expensive really quick
21:10
About 144 more megabytes of ram per day at bitcoin's speed
21:13
And it would be a trustful Explorer.
If you use the light wallet, and you make a different account for each payment, then you can have a trust-free way to monitor multiple incoming payments.
If you use the light wallet, and you make a different account for each payment, then you can have a trust-free way to monitor multiple incoming payments.
21:15
Is a trusted central authority really what we need?
It seems like writing some centralized trustful service like that could result in users getting robbed. And the blame would be in me for encouraging the use of a centralized service.
It seems like writing some centralized trustful service like that could result in users getting robbed. And the blame would be in me for encouraging the use of a centralized service.
21:16
Maybe we should just keep improving the light wallet until it accomplishes the same goals you are interested in, but without a centralized trusted authority.
OK
21:18
O K
Every mature chain has block explorers. You could try to beat people to the punch but I know more than one person is working on this. I don't think it will lead to people getting robbed, and definitely no one will blame you if they did.
21:21
One problem with the light node as block explorer that maybe could be addressed is, if you want to check that many nodes are in consensus you need to check your transaction across many light nodes
21:22
veoscan and node stability has made that much easier though
S
21:25
Sy
there is no practical way to tell if a pool paid you or not either
21:26
but nobody is saying you have to build a block explorer into the node, its always an external application with a database behind it - just stop calling the explorer.html block explorer, its a balance checker
Z
21:31
Zack
I was planning on working on the bitcoin Veo exchange more today.
Eventually I will have time to build a centralized Explorer.
Eventually I will have time to build a centralized Explorer.
S
21:32
Sy
ignore the explorer
21:32
like OK said, its being worked on by different ppl and no offense but your frontend designs kinda suck, let someone else handle this π
21:32
work on the mechanics, thats your strong suite
B
23:16
Ben
+1
23:16
:)
IP
2 April 2018
00:17
Deleted Account
The UI sucksοΌbut we all need zack to work in mechanics behind amoveo
00:34
Deleted Account
It's just simple. I do not think it "sucks".
00:35
Besides, anyone can work on UI improvement and send pull request.
OK
00:35
O K
I intend to try to put some css on light node this week ^
00:36
Deleted Account
great :)
N
00:36
NM$L
I'm a iOS developer
00:38
Deleted Account
Oh really. So you can work on mobile UI :)
00:40
I'll add some block/tx explorer to veoscan.io soon.
S
01:00
Sy
π
S
01:54
Sy
i can relate there, i hate designing the frontend, displaying numbers is enough! :D
Z
06:34
Zack
I think it has been over 5 days since either of my nodes crashed. It seems much more stable now.
IP
N
11:09
NM$L
WTS@150
S
Z
11:26
Zack
block time is below 8 minutes.
12:50
too bad. That mining a block with two 1080ti need nearly a week
N
S
12:58
Sy
In reply to this message
what do you mean why? target time is 10 minute, actual time 8 -> diff up
N
S
15:18
Sy
just keep it the way it is, nobody is complaining that a btc is at 7k or 19k or whatever
15:18
its just the way it is, its crypto, not usd
15:19
the only ones who complain are those new to crypto, they will learn
16:33
Deleted Account
What's the proportion of three different pools? where can I find this?
S
16:35
Sy
you cant
17:54
Deleted Account
Block exporer is mostly done.
It will display the proportion of mined blocks grouped by address (pool) at given period.
It will display the proportion of mined blocks grouped by address (pool) at given period.
M
18:01
Marc
top!
MF
IP
18:51
I P
In reply to this message
Great, thank you for this ongoing effort with utility and ui stuff
18:54
And thanks Zack for codefix so that nodes run stable now.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
M
19:59
Marc
yep. nodes are running super stable since a few days. big up!
21:56
Deleted Account
Hey all, just wanted to give you an update on the current competition we are holding in Noncense Pool. There are six days left to mine 0.5 VEO, and that is the only requirement to enter the raffle. We also made some adjustments to our payout threshold, as a response to wishes here on telegram. The payout threshold is 0.2 VEO.
21:58
Pool url: http://amoveo.noncense.tech/
π³ joined group by link from Group
?
22:01
π³
Hey community
22:02
Need some help with mining
22:05
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Glad to help, what is the problem and what miner are you using?
?
22:12
π³
Hello just attach at the prob and hit miner:start().
22:12
I dont have download specific miner
22:14
Deleted Account
That will start mining using CPU which will no longer be profitable, I recommend that you download the CUDA miner from https://github.com/Mandelhoff/AmoveoMinerGpuCuda and point it to a mining pool of your choice:
http://amoveo.noncense.tech
http://159.65.120.84:8085/main.html
http://amoveopool2.com/pool
http://amoveo.noncense.tech
http://159.65.120.84:8085/main.html
http://amoveopool2.com/pool
?
22:15
π³
The only way to mine is this link above?
22:15
Is cpu mining profitable ? Or only gpu?
S
22:16
Sy
gpu only
22:16
Deleted Account
Only GPU, we had only a small period at the start where CPU was profitable
?
22:17
π³
Ok i will follow the guide
22:17
Thank you @termoose
22:22
what changes need to be done to mine in my wallet?
22:23
Deleted Account
You need to specify your wallet's public key to the miner, example:
AmoveoMinerGpuCuda.exe <wallet_address> 1 64 96 some_seed 65536 http://amoveo.noncense.tech:4001
AmoveoMinerGpuCuda.exe <wallet_address> 1 64 96 some_seed 65536 http://amoveo.noncense.tech:4001
?
22:32
π³
sorry i am on linux
22:37
Deleted Account
Ah same as me, then the miner needs to be build using the commands here: https://github.com/Mandelhoff/AmoveoMinerGpuCuda#build-1
22:51
Deleted Account
anyone have better ways to dealing with heat that GPU produced?
22:52
It is hot here now
22:52
airconditioner is too power consuming
Z
OK
22:53
O K
I thought greenland was the cold one
Z
OK
22:54
O K
Aha
3 April 2018
OK
00:17
O K
Did we ever figure out who BEwcawKx5oZFOmp1533TqDzUl76fOeLosDl+hwv6rZ50tLSQmMyW/87saj3D5qBtJI4lLsILllpRlT8/ppuNaPM= is?
00:17
The question was first raised on March 8 I think
00:18
bewcawk
Z
00:27
Zack
Isn't that Sy?
B
00:30
Ben
why is that of Interest btw?
S
00:30
Sy
π
00:40
Deleted Account
So Sy is renting so much hashrate to mining.
00:41
BEwcaw got a lot blocks these days
Z
00:41
Zack
Maybe.
I think he is running a pool
I think he is running a pool
00:42
I just don't understand why he doesn't publish the url so we can join his pool
S
00:43
Sy
what for?
00:43
isnt the point of pools that you distribute hashpower?
00:43
Deleted Account
He loves solo mining
S
00:43
Sy
and there shouldnt be any difference on what pool you mine
Z
00:43
Zack
If we join your pool, then you would earn a portion of the blocks we find
S
00:44
Sy
yes i would
00:44
but it would tip the scales again
Z
00:44
Zack
oh, are you altruistically trying to keep a balance between the mining pools for the good of Amoveo?
S
00:45
Sy
yes :)
Z
00:46
Zack
That is nice of you.
OK
00:53
O K
Good guy Sy π€
MF
01:33
Mr Flintstone
nobody wants to bet on the difficulty at block 14001?
M
01:33
Mike
Still no AMD miner?
01:59
Deleted Account
What is (going to be) the difference between Amoveo and Aeternity? I read Zacks horrifying account of what happened, hoping Veo comes out on top
Z
02:00
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/progress_reports/April_2018.md
Here is Amoveo compared with many other projects.
Here is Amoveo compared with many other projects.
02:02
Key differences between Aeternity and Amoveo:
1) Amoveo has a different proof of work algorithm.
2) Amoveo has Turing complete state channels, which allows us to have smart contracts inside the lightning network. ae only has payment channels. So ae's smart contracts are on-chain, like ethereum.
3) Amoveo uses Futarchy for the Oracle. It is a betting type consensus. Ae uses trusted feeds for their oracle, a mechanism that depends on centralized trusted third parties.
4) Amoveo uses Futarchy for governance. Ae uses voting for governance, even though it has been proven that voting cannot be a secure mechanism.
5) Amoveo uses a developer reward, which incentivizes me to maintain the blockchain to the best of my ability. Ae uses an ico, so they have almost no incentive to deliver a working product.
6) Amoveo supports sharding for scalability, ae does not.
1) Amoveo has a different proof of work algorithm.
2) Amoveo has Turing complete state channels, which allows us to have smart contracts inside the lightning network. ae only has payment channels. So ae's smart contracts are on-chain, like ethereum.
3) Amoveo uses Futarchy for the Oracle. It is a betting type consensus. Ae uses trusted feeds for their oracle, a mechanism that depends on centralized trusted third parties.
4) Amoveo uses Futarchy for governance. Ae uses voting for governance, even though it has been proven that voting cannot be a secure mechanism.
5) Amoveo uses a developer reward, which incentivizes me to maintain the blockchain to the best of my ability. Ae uses an ico, so they have almost no incentive to deliver a working product.
6) Amoveo supports sharding for scalability, ae does not.
02:04
Deleted Account
Wow great reply, will have to read up on the details
Z
02:05
Zack
https://twitter.com/zack_bitcoin/status/979770345686171649
Vitalik explains why voting based mechanisms cannot work.
Vitalik explains why voting based mechanisms cannot work.
OK
03:01
O K
Applying a quick change to the amoveopool2.com server. Your miners may show "getwork failed" very briefly. Don't panic! :)
Z
03:51
Zack
The market interface is broken. No one can make bets because it is no longer possible to copy the market id from the explorer.html page to the wallet.html page.
03:51
Maybe this is why no one made any bets
OK
03:51
O K
Ah
03:53
Server applying forwarned changes now, back up in a moment.
03:59
Reboot just started, coming back up