Amoveo ♥🧿
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26 March 2018
17:12
Deleted Account
Friendly reminder that mining 0.5 VEO or more on http://amoveo.noncense.tech pool before Tuesday 10. April will give you a good chance of winning 1 VEO. Very few public keys have mined 0.5 so the chances are good. Competition extended because of the x4 difficulty increases.
Z
17:25
Zack
If the average block time is above 2400 seconds for this period, it would be bad for Amoveo, and I would probably do a hard fork to change the retargeting based off that document I published.
AS
S
P|
18:09
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Amoveo were becoming more popular, so you guys should sell to me.
18:10
Is that logical?
S
18:18
Sy
node still in sync, we're getting there :)
AS
P|
19:13
Deleted Account
I think there is slight chance that amoveo will have asic miner. So individual GPU miners is the majority. If difficulty increase so fast. Then almost everyone in this group are out of this game.
P|
19:14
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
Yes, and the ones that remain are miners who can mine most efficiently. Nobody's saying every miners should be profitable 😂
19:15
Deleted Account
So everyone's efforts in this group pave ways for giant miners
P|
19:15
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Yes
19:15
the goal is to create a crypto that's suitable for financial derivatives, not the small miner's paradise
MF
19:17
Mr Flintstone
If anyone wants to bet veo that the difficulty will go down next adjustment I’m happy to take the other side
19:17
You guys sound really confident
19:17
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
So this coin choose the way to rely on giant GPU farm owners like Jihan Wu
MF
19:17
Mr Flintstone
we can create a market
Z
19:17
Zack
In reply to this message
Oh yeah, this time will be more interesting. Thanks for mentioning.
P|
19:17
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
It's the same with every single crypto @smubo. It's all about demand and supply 😂
AS
MF
19:19
Deleted Account
It is a newborn coin and need more supports from individuals. Bitcoin is supportted by many individuals and becoming popular eventually
19:20
I will not talk about this issue anymore. but this adjustment is too bad for miners like me
P|
19:21
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
@smubo Would you like to fork Amoveo? Then you can select the diff yourself.
19:21
That's definitely an option
19:22
Deleted Account
I am a spine surgeon. not a programmer. So no.
Z
19:22
Zack
It is ok of smubo doesn't understand why the difficulty goes up.
This means for now, if you want to invest in amoveo, it is better to buy tokens instead of mining them.
This means for now, if you want to invest in amoveo, it is better to buy tokens instead of mining them.
19:23
Blockchains are complicated. We can't expect everyone to understand
S
AS
19:24
Aizen Sou
It's okay for him not to understand it but he talked like because of Amoveo's own fault to have such diff retarget and why BTC only has 10% raise in diff 😂
Z
19:28
Zack
If someone is mining profitably at this difficulty, it is in their interest to keep the difficulty this high. Since there is less competition now.
S
19:29
Sy
hmm why should i be happy about 4 times less coins? obviously im not the 2 th that left
19:30
you switch 2 th to another coin because vs the new diff you get more mining something else, simple as that
19:30
Zack whast the sharediff of your pool?
Z
19:30
Zack
you get a larger portion of all that are minted.
S
19:31
Sy
no you dont, you get exactly the same
19:31
its like pool or solo mining, you either get small fractions of alot of blocks or big fractions of a few blocks, the result is roughly the same over time
Z
19:31
Zack
If less people are competing against you, then there are less people to divide newly minted coins among.
S
19:32
Sy
that would be true if blocktime were still the same
19:32
but with 2-3x slower blocktime it just evens out
Z
19:32
Zack
In reply to this message
I think it is 2000 shares per block before the difficulty adjust. So now it is probably 8000 shares per block.
19:32
I will check later when I'm at my computer.
S
19:32
Sy
amoveopool sends that value with getwork...
Z
19:33
Zack
Right. So does the pool I made
S
19:34
Sy
hmm nope, at least not the same way - lemme find the curl statement to grab getwork
Z
19:35
Zack
It is different in that amoveopool has a different share diff for each user, and the one I made has the same share diff for everyone.
S
19:38
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
how much percent of blocks your pool mined these days? more than amoveopool?
19:42
Deleted Account
It looks to me like amoveopool2 has above 90% of the hashing power at least, it's not very decentralised at the moment
S
Z
S
19:56
Sy
just looking at the config.erl of the new shares pool, pubkey is what key?
Z
19:59
Zack
In order to avoid over-paying the miners of the first 10 blocks, this account starts with a non-zero amount of shares.
Before shutting the pool down, you are supposed to do 9 extra payouts, as if 9 more blocks were found.
Before shutting the pool down, you are supposed to do 9 extra payouts, as if 9 more blocks were found.
19:59
To avoid under-paying the people who found the last 10 blocks.
S
20:00
Sy
so if your pool hasnt found 10 blocks you are screwed?
20:00
why isnt the pubkey in familiar format? and is it my nodes pubkey?
Z
20:01
Zack
No. If you decide to shut it off after only 3 blocks for example, you only do 3 more rewards.
S
20:01
Sy
ah okay
20:01
so i only have to figure out what to enter at pubkey
Z
20:02
It is best to use cold storage for something like this. Don't risk losing customer funds.
20:04
keys:pubkey(). outputs this format.
S
20:04
Sy
isnt it using the local nodes funds anymore?
Z
20:05
Zack
It is.
Hmm..
Maybe the config pubkey isn't being used.
Hmm..
Maybe the config pubkey isn't being used.
20:06
Oh right.
When you win block rewards, they go to your full node. And your full node pays to accounts that have shares, including the config pubkey.
When you win block rewards, they go to your full node. And your full node pays to accounts that have shares, including the config pubkey.
S
20:15
Sy
so the config pubkey is for...? the fee?
Z
20:16
Zack
That pubkey starts out with a nonzero amount of shares.
S
20:16
Sy
that still makes no sense
20:16
whos key is it? my miner? my node? a new one? is it just for internal use? does it get paid?
Z
20:16
Zack
Every time the pool finds a block, 10% of your shares turn into Veo.
20:17
So it takes about 10 blocks to get fully paid for the shares you found
20:18
The mining pool operator needs to start out with some extra shares, otherwise je will over-pay people who mine the first 10 blocks, and he won't be able to afford to completely pay the people who mine the last 10 blocks.
20:19
The master branch has a simpler mining pool that doesn't use shares.
OK
S
20:43
Sy
i know the original pool, it became more and more useless with increasing diff
20:43
plus it pays orphans
20:44
Deleted Account
Looks like I"m going to be reloading Windows today ugh
20:44
Been having issues with rolling reboots throughout the night
20:44
and yesterday
Z
20:45
As long as you have less than 0.5 Veo balance, then it won't pay orphans because you can't afford the tx.
S
20:50
Sy
xD
Z
21:07
Zack
https://twitter.com/Truthcoin/status/977161805322686464?s=19
Should I add pokemon to amoveo?
Should I add pokemon to amoveo?
OK
Z
21:12
Zack
Should they be transferable?
If they are transferable, then syncing your poke node will be as expensive as a full node.
If they are not transferable, then it will be like syncing a light node.
If they are transferable, then syncing your poke node will be as expensive as a full node.
If they are not transferable, then it will be like syncing a light node.
Z
21:31
Zack
Looks like 20-26 minutes per block.
MF
21:31
Mr Flintstone
maybe if we put a rapidash in every block it wouldn’t be so slow
S
21:57
Sy
the question is...is the node stable? are pokemons that important? xD
22:11
Deleted Account
in the past 24 hours,23 min per block
22:13
then how much a veo?
22:41
Deleted Account
2 1080ti get 0.1 veo today
Z
23:12
Zack
In reply to this message
I haven't had a crash since I last tried a fix.
2 nodes, 1.5 days
2 nodes, 1.5 days
OK
23:14
O K
Slightly off topic, if any node delivers headers to other nodes (i.e. they have enough hashrate to win a block) shouldn't the header-delivering-node automatically be added to the network peers list?
Z
23:17
Zack
In reply to this message
I think we currently assume that such a node is already on the peers list.
OK
23:19
After manual intervention everything has seemed well
23:19
But did not happen automatically, if a big hasher who does not communciate comes online, it could inadvertently be dangerous
Z
23:33
Zack
So nodes are disappearing from the peers list?
every time a node tries to download blocks from another, they both share their list of peers.
every time a node tries to download blocks from another, they both share their list of peers.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
OK
23:34
O K
It was likely never added, since it was the majority hashing node it never needed to download blocks outside of the initial sync. Steps:
23:35
1) sync node, new IP
2) Win 10-15 blocks, other nodes stayed in sync
3) BPWND won a block, headers did not sync
2) Win 10-15 blocks, other nodes stayed in sync
3) BPWND won a block, headers did not sync
Z
23:36
Zack
I think you are right. This is an ideal moment to re-add the peer to the list.
23:37
The problem is when I reboot my node, sometimes I can be blacklisted
OK
23:37
O K
It's possible that mine was blacklisted too, but I don't know
23:38
I had been running it as a reference node with no work for about 16 hours or so before doing work on the node, it fell out of sync many times
23:38
So perhaps it was blacklisted
23:39
Maybe winning a block could automatically unblacklist
Z
23:40
Zack
I don't understand the problem you are describing.
You are saying that you launched a node, and no one sent headers to it, so it didn't download blocks?
You are saying that you launched a node, and no one sent headers to it, so it didn't download blocks?
OK
23:42
O K
After winning several blocks, I believe still the node was not on the peers list, and therefore once another node won a block, it did not receive the headers.
23:43
Therefore if someone who is a large hasher comes online, the default behavior seems to be a 51% attack
23:43
I am willing to purchase another IP to try to demonstrate it to you in real time
Z
23:43
Zack
ok, I found a way to add the peer that shares a new header with you.
23:43
but I wonder if we should do even more?
OK
23:43
O K
But last night at the block described above, the network forked and would have resulted in an attack if I hadn't caught it
23:44
Probably, but for now if a node that is at top height produces a block, and is added to the peers list for producing that block, I think we are safe from this exact issue for now
Z
23:45
Zack
ok, ill push the changes then.
Thanks for noticing this, and coming up with a fix.
Thanks for noticing this, and coming up with a fix.
OK
23:45
O K
:D
27 March 2018
02:02
Deleted Account
alright difficuly is nuts
02:03
new miners are all noicoiners
I
02:06
Iridescence
Difficulty is 13000, roughly 50 zeros.
02:10
One V100 mining at a generous estimate of 8 GH/s is expected to produce 0.025 VEO per hour
02:10
On Amazon a V100 instance costs about $3 / hour
02:12
This means that it doesn't make sense to rent a cloud V100 to mine if one values VEO at less than $120 per VEO
OK
02:12
O K
I wonder if it's a sign of maturity and possibly a good thing that Amazon rentals are starting to get priced out of mining
I
02:13
Iridescence
My concern is that difficulty adjustment takes a long time at high difficulty without large hashpower
OK
02:13
O K
I have the same concern
02:14
I think that if we continue to add value to Amoveo: to the community, to the docs, and to fundamental infrastructure, and maybe make more use of markets, that that will organically bring value to Amoveo
Z
02:14
Zack
In reply to this message
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/design/retargetting_stability.md
Amazon rentals follow a step-function hashrate(difficulty) function, it is one of the worst kinds of shapes.
Amazon rentals follow a step-function hashrate(difficulty) function, it is one of the worst kinds of shapes.
OK
02:21
O K
Not having a background in physics and mathematics, I find myself feeling a bit obtuse reading that. I tend to disagree that there is an incentive to keep the difficulty high though. While the people mining get a larger portion of the block reward like you suggest, there are other assumptions here that are being taken for granted. For instance, that increasingly slow block times may give people wanting to purchase cause for concern about the health of a blockchain, and thus not be willing to purchase at the price offered by the greedy miner who wants difficulty high. At the end of the day, regardless of cost to mine, supply and demand is the decider of the price of the coin, and that may not align conveniently for the seller.
02:22
I also think that things will continue on trend, despite the recent slow downs
02:22
I think we should get some more markets going, and take this slow time to play with them
02:23
That is the underlying value after all, and perhaps having a market betting over the hashrate, will incentivize some of us to find a way to get more hashrate, like some of the scenarios outlined in the whitepaper
S
02:49
Sy
greedy miner who wants higher diff is utter bullshit, i prefer lower diff and more coins with lower value anytime vs few coins with higher value plus getting the price up after a diff adjust that high does never work, you have to sit it out
02:50
btc block halfings take up to 3 month before the price gets affected
Z
02:54
Zack
Each block reward increases the Veo supply by 1/16000.
That is much bigger proportionately than a bitcoin block reward.
That is much bigger proportionately than a bitcoin block reward.
B
02:59
Ben
the reality is nobody is willing to pay 200+$ currently
02:59
Deleted Account
yet*
B
02:59
Ben
with around 100 the people were ok
MF
03:00
Mr Flintstone
what if people are willing to pay like 160?
B
03:00
Ben
so currently the new Blocktime/reward lead into a situation which puts us in a bad spot
03:00
you buy for 160$ ?
MF
03:00
Mr Flintstone
already did
OK
03:01
O K
👍
B
03:01
Ben
ok, then you proved that i'm wrong
03:01
fair enough
03:01
did not expect that
MF
03:01
Mr Flintstone
please note that I am a permabull
S
03:14
Sy
In reply to this message
whats that supposed to mean? im pretty sure in the first 10k blocks it was pretty similar with btc
03:14
besides, you shouldnt try to argument any decision you did with bitcoin, bitcoin is a dinosaur who will die soonish
03:15
every aspect of bitcoin has been done better in other coins
03:16
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
except demand, which is arguably the most important aspect of any coin
OK
03:16
O K
I'm not so bearish on BTC
03:17
if you believe btc will die better get out of crypto right now
03:18
Deleted Account
I dumped all my shitdollars for crypto
03:18
only kept what i need to live for now
03:18
everything else is btc and alts
S
03:28
you dont have to believe in btc to play in crypto
03:28
Deleted Account
unless you are only a trader right now btc governs the market
03:31
Deleted Account
yeah BTC probably wont die and actually become the reserve, but that's beyond the topic
MF
03:32
Mr Flintstone
generally when an alt “improves” on something in bitcoin there are serious trade offs that typically are not well understood by market participants
03:32
Deleted Account
one of the major reasons i am not buying right now is i am not sure of the stability of the network, the engineering is good, but there's a risk of something severely breaking and then dev restarting the chain
MF
03:41
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
what do you think the probability of this is? even if it’s literally 90% I still think this project is hugely EV positive to invest in
I
03:42
Iridescence
Last block was 40 minutes ago?
03:42
12083
03:42
FeelsBadMan
Z
03:44
Zack
average block time over last 20 blocks was 15 minutes.
Anything below 40 minutes is good.
Anything below 40 minutes is good.
OK
03:44
O K
Yeah, randomness has been showing its face lately :D
I
03:45
Iridescence
Good old randomness
03:47
Might get an hour-long block
03:47
Only 10 minutes to go
03:47
Don't know if there has been an hour-long block before
AS
I
03:54
Iridescence
Ah drats, a block was found. Almost!
Z
03:59
Zack
I think there were a couple hour long blocks recently.
04:16
Deleted Account
82 blocks have been found in 30 hours
S
OK
04:43
O K
ext file handler block access to: /vs.php first time I've seen this on a node
Z
04:56
Zack
In reply to this message
I see stuff like this a lot.
It is some program scanning the internet, looking at regular patterns that lots of websites use.
It is some program scanning the internet, looking at regular patterns that lots of websites use.
G
05:49
Greg
In reply to this message
The argument is look at its market cap. Bitcoin is here to stay because it is the gateway to crypto plus lightning / rsk features coming. But I prefer Ethereum as a developer because possibilities are endless.
IP
06:05
I P
guys, was at work, what did i miss? will there be diff retargetting adjustment with hardfork?
OK
06:06
O K
It's been relatively quiet
06:56
Deleted Account
There were 160 miners in amoveopool days ago. but now only 110
MF
06:57
Mr Flintstone
all the aws miners are gone
07:04
Deleted Account
maybe a shorter retargeting time is better.
MF
07:04
Mr Flintstone
block times are not too bad right now
07:04
15 mil
07:04
Min
OK
07:08
O K
How many days between 8k and 12k
OK
07:39
O K
March 12, 8 EST
07:39
Zack's 20 days sounds reasonable
07:51
Deleted Account
oh well i have stopped mining as well
OK
07:55
O K
You own your hardware?
08:08
Deleted Account
yes
OK
08:09
O K
What do you mine now?
08:09
Deleted Account
i dont believe in "tokenization" of energy consumption :)
08:10
i am not a compulsive miner, i dont "have" to mine something unless it screams value to me
08:10
the heat out of 1080ti is too much
08:22
can we block new users + external link combo
08:23
if someone's first post is an external link, chances are high that its unrelated to amoveo
IP
08:27
I P
btw is there any block explorer to view amoveo blockchain right now? i mean block timestamps, transactions etc
Z
08:28
Zack
Amoveo pool shows some of that stuff.
IP
08:29
I P
oh, thx, was looking on a node, but explorer on node is very limited in functions
Z
08:30
Zack
In reply to this message
Usually to make something query able to the web, it needs to be in ram.
Right now txs are only stored in blocks on the chain. Which is all on the hard drive.
So am Explorer that shows arbitrary transactions would need a different database in ram.
Right now txs are only stored in blocks on the chain. Which is all on the hard drive.
So am Explorer that shows arbitrary transactions would need a different database in ram.
IP
08:32
I P
just wanted to check number of blocks, we have had 71 blocks in 23 hours which is 1 block every 20 minutes or so
08:33
which is a bit slow but i guess not that bad
08:34
still would be cool to have an explorer at some point like iquidus or better
OK
08:35
O K
It's on my list since we have an infrastructure that would make it relatively simple, but it's a very long list
08:35
(amoveopool)
08:49
In reply to this message
I don't believe in Tokenization of energy either. If that is true, just increase the difficulty to infinite high. You will get enormous large market capital
IP
09:06
I P
In reply to this message
yeah those cards pull up to 300w of power and dissipate as much heat
09:06
you could try to downlock and downvolt it a bit
09:17
Deleted Account
yeah but with these blocktimes, its a lot of natural gas burning somewhere to unearth one coin
MF
09:30
Mr Flintstone
and help protect everyone else from reversion
Z
09:32
Zack
In reply to this message
false. that is not why we are burning energy.
Blockchain is a tool for transforming value from energy form into cryptocurrency form.
Blockchain is a tool for transforming value from energy form into cryptocurrency form.
MF
09:32
Mr Flintstone
pow literally helps protect people from reversion. I am not sure how this is false
Z
09:33
Zack
it prevents reversion as a side effect.
09:35
Since POW solves reversion as a side effect, we don't need POS.
If POW didn't transform energy value into cryptocurrency value, we would probably use some sort of POS instead.
If POW didn't transform energy value into cryptocurrency value, we would probably use some sort of POS instead.
MF
09:35
Mr Flintstone
pow does not solve reversion. It gives you a probabilistic concept of finality
Z
09:35
Zack
If we were only using POW for reversion reasons, then we would want to keep the block reward much lower.
N
09:36
NM$L
sell 5veo pm me with your best price
MF
09:36
Mr Flintstone
I am really not sure what we are even arguing about
Z
09:37
Zack
In reply to this message
Ads like this seem scammy to me.
Information is asymmetric in Jamhan's favor, since he is expecting others to name a price without saying his own.
Information is asymmetric in Jamhan's favor, since he is expecting others to name a price without saying his own.
MF
09:38
Mr Flintstone
I have dealt with jahman in the past. He is not a scammer
N
09:38
NM$L
I have a good trade with 4 ppl in this group.
Z
09:38
Zack
I have been considering censoring anyone who asks for trades without naming some sort of starting price
09:39
I guess I can't protect everyone. If people want to take the risk of trading in an unfair environment, I can't stop them.
N
09:41
NM$L
You're right.
P|
10:03
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
@potat_o Since I stopped mining already, is there an option to withdraw less than 1.0 veo manually? It'd take me forever to mine to 1.0 veo at this rate.
10:07
Deleted Account
Open source pool backend: https://github.com/BikBikBikBikBik/nVeoPool , built on .NET Core 2 + Redis + Postgres so it runs on Linux/Mac/Windows. Currently supports individual worker ids, variable difficulty, custom payment configuration (block maturity depth, minimum payout, multiple fees), API for retrieving hashrate/balance, and uses the existing GetWork protocol. Have lots of ideas planned and will be working on a front-end UI. If any good designers want to help, I'd love some assistance--I'm not great at design.
10:07
Zack, at some point would you mind possibly looking at some of the 'core' bits, e.g. PoW validation and work submission? I'm not a blockchain expert, just a dev...
I
10:51
Consider using it to the subreddit as well
10:52
I can take a look at it - I worked a lot on a miner for Amoveo
10:52
Deleted Account
Oh hey, that would be fantastic! I based my PoW validation on the miners but again I'm no expert :)
10:53
Also if you wrote a miner, I'd love to talk at some point about transitioning to Stratum or some more efficient protocol
10:54
This is basically the PoW validation if you wouldnt mind peeking whenever you have a moment: https://github.com/BikBikBikBikBik/nVeoPool/blob/master/src/nVeoPool.PoolServer/PoW/AmoveoPoWAlgorithm.cs#L18
M
11:05
Minieep21
Does that help setup pools with ease?
11:05
Deleted Account
That's the idea, yes. Right now it's just the backend, but I'll be working on a basic front end as well.
M
11:06
Minieep21
Nice, what a nice surprise!
11:06
Deleted Account
Happy to contribute! Pull/feature requests always welcome on GitHub!
11:12
Deleted Account
Ohh My Lord I can't watch it anymore, it's crawling so damn slow
I
12:11
not sure if you're checking for duplicate nonces, but you might want to do that if you are not
12:23
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
yes and with 1 as the blockreward, its like tunnel at the end of another tunnel
12:30
In reply to this message
what about the bitcoin pegging/ atomic swap you spoke about earlier? that'll create a defacto market
13:05
Deleted Account
Hey thanks for checking @Iridescence ! I am checking for duplicate nonces as well, and those nonces are checked for duplicates across all individual workers for a miner
S
13:30
Sy
I'll give the pool a shot later
N
13:37
NM$L
wts 5@149$
S
14:09
Deleted Account
i will turn off my miner tonight.
14:09
Deleted Account
@sy Right now it only works with Postgres. If MySQL is something people want I can work on adding support for that
14:10
@sy As there's no front end at the moment I'm writing up some basic API docs for now so you can monitor that way
S
14:11
Sy
i dont really need a frontend if everything is in a database
14:11
Deleted Account
The API will expose 1hr/6hr/24hr average hashrate for each individual worker and your overall miner
S
14:11
Sy
but...how to compile? xD
14:11
Deleted Account
My kinda guy haha :D
14:11
So right now you should be able to just dotnet build && dotnet run —project nVeoPool.PoolServer\nVeoPool.PoolServer.csproj
14:11
I'm wroking on writing up docs and whatnot
14:12
I also added a config option just now for listen ip/port, forgot i had those hardcoded
S
14:12
Sy
okay im on linux...is it still mono or is there a native .net?
14:12
Deleted Account
It's all native with .net core :)
14:12
They've made big strides with core
S
14:12
Sy
neat
14:12
Deleted Account
Make sure you have latest 2.x
14:12
I think it's still 2.0, 2.1 is coming soon
14:13
And Visual Studio Code is a great editor if you want to tinker, works on *nix as well
14:13
Also free
G
Z
Z
16:47
Zack
In reply to this message
Why make a new mining pool instead of improving the existing one?
What is the server for responding to api requests?
What is the server for responding to api requests?
16:48
Deleted Account
Mostly for fun to be perfectly honest, I've never written a pool before. And do you mean the API format in general? I'm not actually running a pool myself, I dont have a server up right now
16:49
I am writing up more docs though, working on the API specifically at the moment
Z
16:49
Zack
I am using cowboy http server for the pool I wrote.
16:49
Deleted Account
Ah gotcha, Kestrel it's called, relatively new from Microsoft.
16:50
It's much higher performance than their old IIS server
16:50
It's advantageous in just about every way, as long as you dont need windows auth
16:50
compared to IIS, that is
18:16
Deleted Account
sell 30 veo for $130
Z
19:18
Zack
I want to buy 10@ 80 $
IP
19:19
i would buy at 50$
Z
19:19
Zack
I offered at $60 2 days ago, and no one accepted.
IP
19:21
I P
In reply to this message
well the thing is that on hype initial price is high, above any reasonable measure
19:21
in time it falls down a bit and stays low for some time
19:21
once project is getting hyped it gets pumped to initial expectations, sometimes above that
Z
19:22
Zack
There are 16000 tokens so far.
So a lower limit on our market cap is $0.96 million.
So a lower limit on our market cap is $0.96 million.
MF
19:22
Mr Flintstone
lol “hype” = 1mn market cap?
19:22
there is literal vaporware with >500mn cap
IP
19:22
I P
In reply to this message
no, hype can be anything. for pirl it was release of masternodes for example
MF
19:23
Mr Flintstone
so you think a price of 150 is beyond any reasonable measure
19:23
that is ridiculous in a relative value context
Z
19:24
Zack
I have no idea what the price is. But I don't want to get a good deal.
MF
19:24
Mr Flintstone
i mean relative value as in RV not your relative lmao
Z
19:24
Zack
I think, based on the way miners are behaving, it could easily be anything between $60 an $300.
MF
19:25
Mr Flintstone
the actual price is probably between 130-170 right now
IP
19:25
I P
well=) thing is what i saw with many new coins, even the good ones
MF
19:25
Mr Flintstone
if people are willing to sell for below Pilly’s price I would be shocked
IP
19:25
I P
OTC price was high
Z
19:25
Zack
You probably have more information than me. I will learn more as I slowly raise my offer price.
IP
19:26
I P
once it hit exchange price went down like x2-x5
MF
19:26
Mr Flintstone
this project is not some shitcoin
IP
19:27
bad ones get dumpes x100
Z
19:27
Zack
Our price will probably rise by more than 2-5x before we get on any exchange anyway
MF
19:27
Mr Flintstone
there are probably 5-10 good projects in the world right now
19:27
obvs that is subjective
IP
19:27
I P
In reply to this message
well in your case i think it is reasonable to open a devfee account and kindly ask pool owners to donate 1% to it
MF
19:28
Mr Flintstone
there is already a developer reward
IP
19:28
I P
i do not think that any would refuse
MF
19:28
Mr Flintstone
which zack is gonna get stupid paid on
19:28
not that that is a bad thing
19:28
I do not get mad when others get wealthy
Z
19:29
Zack
Yes, there is already a developer reward.
My current problem is that my family member gave me money, and I am trying to turn that money into Veo for them at a good price like I told them I would.
My current problem is that my family member gave me money, and I am trying to turn that money into Veo for them at a good price like I told them I would.
MF
19:29
Mr Flintstone
good price constantly changes
19:29
I don’t think it’s dishonest to buy at a higher price if the price went up
Z
19:29
Zack
yeah, I figure I will buy some now, and more in a week or two.
AS
19:30
Aizen Sou
In reply to this message
Nice FUD. I guess you are trying to buy cheap but no one sells ? 🤣
IP
19:32
I P
In reply to this message
i'm not really trying that hard to buy. if someone sells me for 50$- nice, if not- i don't care
Z
19:33
Zack
I think IP is right in the case of coins that don't have mining at least.
I managed to sell some Rep at a very high price OTC before it was on the blockchain.
I was thinking that this wont be the case so much for Amoveo, because it is already mineable. So there is already a large number of people holding it.
I managed to sell some Rep at a very high price OTC before it was on the blockchain.
I was thinking that this wont be the case so much for Amoveo, because it is already mineable. So there is already a large number of people holding it.
AS
19:33
Aizen Sou
I would buy at 50$ too, so if u say u dont care i dont believe it. If u dont care u wouldn't be here.
Z
19:33
Zack
I was one of the only people selling Rep at the time, so the market was really lopsided in my favor
IP
19:34
I P
In reply to this message
i don't care about buying more. i mine it anyways. what i mine- i keep it, that's all
MF
IP
19:35
I P
trading btc and crypto taught me one thing- don't get too greedy
19:35
which means if you see a good project don't buy at any price on fomo
AS
19:37
Aizen Sou
Crypto taught me another lesson, if u couldn't evaluate the value of a good project, u will feel sorry forever. I sold 20k ETH at 10$ each. It's history now.
IP
19:37
I P
there is always an initial enthusiasm about new coin, even the good one and there is always a harsh pullback once people buy on fomo and only then understand that project is good but has yet to deliver some real value
MF
19:38
Mr Flintstone
it is seriously rare to find coins like these. to the point where it *almost* doesn’t matter what price you pay...
Z
19:38
Zack
I was so involved with ethereum at the beginning. I gave a talk at one of their conferences before they launched.
I could have bought at $0.60
So much regret.
I could have bought at $0.60
So much regret.
MF
19:38
Mr Flintstone
anything below 20mn market cap is a super compelling price imo
AS
19:38
Aizen Sou
At 100$ per VEO it means nur 14.4k $ inflation rate daily.
MF
19:41
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
was this the panel with vlad and vitalik and the dude from Tendermint? Forget his name
IP
19:41
I P
In reply to this message
that is true. the other lesson is- don't sell all your stash if you think the project is good, sell in portions
19:42
selling all is another form of greed
AS
19:42
Aizen Sou
No when u didn't believe it anymore makes no sense to keep
Z
19:43
Zack
In reply to this message
No. I did so bad in that panel.
It was a different talk at the same conference.
It was a different talk at the same conference.
IP
MF
IP
19:43
I P
even the shittiest shitcoin can get pumped to moon
19:43
for example verge
19:44
or ripple
19:44
and even good projects can get dumped under the ground
19:44
take byteball for example
19:45
good tech
AS
19:45
Aizen Sou
And yet u said 50$ per VEO is the right value. :)))
IP
19:45
I P
dumped hard as fck to the very ground
AS
19:45
Aizen Sou
Byteball made a fatal mistake: too many airdrops aka free money
19:46
Looks at another similar project Nano. They got pumped good because their supply is tight controlled
IP
19:46
I P
In reply to this message
i said it is where i would by right now. most of miners will profit hugely at 50$ per veo
MF
19:46
Mr Flintstone
wat
IP
19:47
crypto is crazy
AS
19:47
Aizen Sou
In reply to this message
Early miners yes, but not now. All early miners made huge profit if they hold, but they mostly didn't
MF
19:48
Mr Flintstone
miners also take into account the future when they think about sales price
19:49
they do not say “oh I mined this for 3 dollars so if I sell for 50 I make profit even though the fair market value is closer to 150”
S
19:52
Sy
zack why dont you just sell some of your devfee coins to your family members at 50-60$ which apparently seems to be the right value per veo for you...
MF
19:53
Mr Flintstone
he doesn’t have access to them for a year or so
S
19:53
Sy
ah okay
19:53
will be a nice present xD 20% is alot
AS
19:54
Aizen Sou
FYI Sy is a perma bear. He only believes in fiat 😂
S
19:54
Sy
i've tested the new pool with That Guy, it still has a few bugs but its overall nicely working
Z
19:54
Zack
In reply to this message
As I just said. I have no idea what the right value is.
Besides, I think debt is bad.
I don't sell things that I don't yet have.
Besides, I think debt is bad.
I don't sell things that I don't yet have.
IP
S
19:54
Sy
hmm i wouldnt have more coins than you aizen if i were bearish xD
19:55
but im always sceptical, yes
MF
19:55
Mr Flintstone
this is a nice uncorrelated oasis from the broader crypto market shitshow
M
19:55
Minieep21
1. Start buying BTC when it goes below $4,000.
2. Wait a year.
3. ???
4. Profit.
2. Wait a year.
3. ???
4. Profit.
S
19:55
Sy
didnt it dip that low already?
MF
19:55
Mr Flintstone
nah
IP
19:55
I P
In reply to this message
yeah. when you think that crypto got dumped hard and you buy that dip.. think again. it get down harder and harder
MF
19:56
Mr Flintstone
like 6k
19:56
was the worst I think
Z
19:56
Zack
After April 17 bitcoin will go up again.
Everyone sells to pay taxes.
Everyone sells to pay taxes.
IP
19:56
I P
In reply to this message
i remeber people where speaking about after chinese new year up again
19:57
there is no easy exit out of bear market
19:57
right now it consolidated at 7800-8000 but that will not get a sustained bounce
Z
19:57
Zack
I thought it is supposed to go down after Chinese new year. Everyone sells the bitcoin they got as a gift.
IP
19:58
I P
no, people sell btc before chinese new year to buy presents
19:58
=))
Z
19:58
Zack
Oh yeah, makes sense
IP
19:58
I P
anyways, i hope btc gets dumped hard right now, like 7200-6600
19:58
after that we are set up for a huge bounce
19:59
and i don't really care if that bounce will fade and all will get back to 4-5k
19:59
TA gives 4k target to be honest. but TA takes into account the past, not the future
19:59
which means if some big players with money and impatience enter the market it won't go down ot 4k
S
20:00
Sy
market cap is way down, like you say, if some big players decide to enter the party can go anywhere
IP
20:01
I P
yeah but with current players i see it hit 4-5k
20:01
the fun part 1 year ago people in their wet dreams thought of 3-4k per btc
20:02
and most whales got their btc for under 200 dollars, under 10 dollars and so on
20:21
Deleted Account
is the total hashrate declining?
MF
20:26
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
it actually seems to have gone up a little since right before diff adj , but there is a lot of variance
20:26
up by like 400 gh/s or so
Z
20:35
Deleted Account
That's an awesome info sheet
IP
20:41
I P
wow my node is up for 1+day and no problems with sync
S
20:43
Sy
same :D
Z
20:43
Zack
I've got 2 up for more than a day. It is getting more stable.
S
20:45
Sy
yep, guess ill be running a pool soon
IP
Z
IP
20:49
I P
ok
MF
20:50
Mr Flintstone
16 synced nodes, the most I have seen
S
21:16
Sy
yeah, i remember seeing 2-4 :D
OK
23:34
O K
Sec
23:34
Deleted Account
Kk
OK
23:37
O K
Should be back up in a sec
23:37
Deleted Account
Okay
OK
23:42
O K
Thank you
23:44
Deleted Account
np?
23:45
lol
OK
23:47
O K
Still working on it, thank you
Z
23:48
Zack
Mine went down too. it looks like it completely turned off the node.
23:48
but my most recent error is refusing a tx someone tried to share with me.
23:49
there isn't any increase in resources consumed.
OK
23:52
O K
I might be getting ddos
BG
23:53
Boob Grabber
Don‘t think so. I can telnet pool2 on port 80.
23:57
Deleted Account
Back up?
23:57
I think
23:57
May have spoke too soonn
OK
23:57
O K
It may have been but I am restarting the server to apply a change
23:57
Deleted Account
Gotcha
OK
23:57
O K
So it may be finalized when it comes back up in a moment
Z
23:58
Zack
This is a tough bug to solve. It just turns off with no record of anything going wrong.
28 March 2018
Z
00:06
Zack
I found some useful info in the error report. Now I have a lead to help diagnose what is wrong.
00:26
Deleted Account
Status?
OK
00:28
O K
I believe we are sustaining some sort of attack, the bottleneck is not bandwidth
00:28
I'm working on it
BG
00:30
Boob Grabber
Frontend is answering intermittently, backend doesn‘t. As it appears from watching responses at my worker at least.
OK
00:33
O K
I've reached out to my provider as well in case it is some sort of outage limiting factor
00:33
Still working on it
OK
00:51
O K
I believe the problem is most likely on my provider's end. I have a ticket open. I suppose it's time to look at dedicated servers with a different provider. In the mean time I'm doing what I can to limit any unnecessary resources being used on the server and to light a fire under my provider's ass to get this solved as quickly as possible.
00:52
Deleted Account
Awesome, no ETA i assume from them?
OK
00:56
O K
The best I can offer is that their technicians have been dispatched, but I have not received an ETA
JM
00:58
J M
it's back up, yeah?
00:58
Deleted Account
...
JM
00:58
J M
i was getting work
00:59
Deleted Account
No...
OK
00:59
O K
It is likely able to serve some people sometimes
00:59
But it's not "up"
JM
00:59
J M
i see
OK
00:59
O K
Normal processes are taking very large amounts of processing power, which leads me to believe that my instance is not getting it's purchased allottment of processing powe
G
01:01
Greg
I'm moving my 15GHs on Zach's pool, I think this is good for the network anyway
AS
01:13
Aizen Sou
Cant believe that u are running pool under a VPS
S
01:13
Sy
zack is getting some hashrate now ^^
OK
01:20
O K
In reply to this message
I'm not sure of any pools running on the network that are not VPS, but ... live and learn. Perhaps we will be the first to go dedicated.
S
01:21
Sy
im pretty sure any major pool is running on a dedicated root server
OK
01:22
O K
On the Amoveo network
01:22
We are back online
AS
01:22
Aizen Sou
Zack isn't running his pool on VPS
OK
01:27
O K
I was under the impression he was, but I can't really speak to that. We will do better. Thank you for the input
01:28
Deleted Account
Even if it wasn't a VPS you can't expect 100% uptime all the time
AS
01:28
Aizen Sou
He did but after my suggestion he changed to dedicated. It was around block 5k
OK
01:29
O K
Thanks Aizen. I didn't get the same suggestions, but I will do better into the future
Z
EP
OK
01:46
@Liskpro you could use AWS GPU instance, CPU is obsolete at this stage
Z
MF
01:46
Mr Flintstone
be ready to pay like 200-300 usd per veo if you rent gpu time
01:47
cheaper to buy straight up
OK
01:48
O K
Yes, to 1080ti
01:49
Deleted Account
or V100's if you've got em' ;)
01:55
Deleted Account
1080ti is great, take it to the north pole and run. the heat will cook some beans for you
01:56
my ti has 3 built in fans which have a hard time pumping the heat out
02:00
Deleted Account
My 1070Ti's are my primary source of heat in my office lol
S
02:08
Sy
get real fans...
02:08
i got 3 delta in every rig, np getting the heat out
02:11
Deleted Account
02:11
I have a stand fan blowing across mine, and two 120mm fans blowing from behind
S
02:26
Sy
ref design, you have to suck the air
02:26
blowing it in doesnt really help
02:30
this these you shouldnt have any heat problems at all, i ran 6 of them openly on a wooden board without any heat problems ^^
02:30
with
02:39
Deleted Account
I don't have heat problems, just figured it couldn't hurt
J
04:14
Jim
Hey Zack , no immediate rush but can you make an alt version of mining_data(X) in the internal API that takes a 2nd optional parameter, starting block height?
So mining_data(50,12000) would get hashrate of every 50th block starting from block 12000
So mining_data(50,12000) would get hashrate of every 50th block starting from block 12000
04:15
Don’t need this right now, eventually will when I migrate to SQL/highcharts for the backend
BG
04:17
Boob Grabber
Receive and submit timeouts are back... 😕
04:18
Not permanently, but frequent
Z
04:21
Zack
In reply to this message
done.
Great job on the graphs, it is nice having something to show my friends when they ask about the project.
Great job on the graphs, it is nice having something to show my friends when they ask about the project.
OK
04:26
O K
In reply to this message
I'm installing some server features, likely just related to me making changes actively on the server
J
BG
04:29
Boob Grabber
In reply to this message
I see... thx 4 the info! Would you mind giving me an upside when done, so I can recheck?
OK
04:30
O K
You shouldn't be offline, mine are getting work
BG
04:31
Boob Grabber
I‘m not competly offline, just intermittend receive and submit timeouts
OK
04:31
O K
I'll PM you when I'm no longer working on the server, sure
BG
04:32
Boob Grabber
Thx a lot!
OK
04:32
O K
:)
04:52
Deleted Account
WTS VEO @ $175 each, DM if interested.
MF
05:04
Mr Flintstone
Has anyone done an otc deal after the diff adj aside from me?
05:04
just curious what the tx price was
Z
05:05
Zack
I have been unable to buy veo at $80.
05:06
Deleted Account
I'll sell you some Zack...just add a 1 lol
G
05:12
Greg
so $801 haha
05:12
Deleted Account
or $180
05:12
Whichever
N
08:30
NM$L
WTS 5veo @150 each
08:33
Deleted Account
seems there is a disconnect. buyers are quoting too low and sellers are quoting too high
MF
08:33
Mr Flintstone
when has someone quoted a buy outside zack
Z
08:34
Zack
no buyers, no sellers, just hodlers.
MF
08:35
Mr Flintstone
n=1 => let’s make conclusions about reality seems to be
Z
08:35
Zack
I want to be buried with my Veo. Like an Egyptian pharaoh.
08:36
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
so basically with a sheet of paper with your private key ?
Z
08:36
Zack
no way, I don't want to encourage grave robbers.
I'll use a brain wallet.
I'll use a brain wallet.
08:38
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
what is reality? you think you are real? ironically you would never know if you live in a simulation or if you are the shadow/ projection from a 4 or higher dimensional world. so let's not get salty
MF
08:39
Mr Flintstone
I don’t know how to respond to that so I guess you win
08:39
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
man, waste of some nice veos. maybe this will make it a deflationary currency :)
N
MF
08:54
Mr Flintstone
bro ur crashing the market chill
08:54
lol
Z
08:57
Zack
I spent about 5 days in the last 2 weeks working on my US taxes, and 4 days on immigration stuff to go to my new country. Once I finish these things I will be able to focus on Amoveo better.
OK
08:59
O K
My heart broke a little, agorism1337
Z
09:01
Zack
I need a document to prove that I am not a US person, that way I can open normal bank accounts and start normal companies and invest in crypto without having to do such ridiculous accounting.
Ive got to be caught up on taxes first to get this document.
Ive got to be caught up on taxes first to get this document.
09:01
Deleted Account
So where are you heading Zack
Z
09:01
Zack
A great place, don't worry.
OK
09:02
O K
Liberland
09:02
Deleted Account
Lol
Z
09:03
Zack
When you guys fly to the USA, do you write down your total net worth of cryptocurrency onto that little card like they tell you to?
OK
09:03
O K
I certainly wouldn't mention any such thing, but I won't be flying until later in the year
09:04
I didn't know they asked for such things in some places
09:04
I guess you have social media attached to your name
Z
09:05
Zack
I think all international flights into the US make you fill out the cards now
MF
09:18
Mr Flintstone
do they make you identify the accounts
09:18
you also have real name exchange records
MF
09:19
Mr Flintstone
hopefully those are being kept secure but trusted third parties are security holes as they say
09:20
the only way to truly be anonymous is to buy hardware and mine imo
IP
Z
09:26
Zack
In reply to this message
you are supposed to write a number of dollars as an estimate of all the financial assets that you are carrying with you.
I think this is only for people with more than $10k in assets.
I think this is only for people with more than $10k in assets.
OK
09:26
O K
You're fortunate you share a name with some baseball guy
09:29
Deleted Account
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to sell @ $150 per, I need to buy a couple new cards.
MF
OK
09:31
O K
localbitcoins or some cash ATMs in locations where fortunate people live
IP
MF
09:32
Mr Flintstone
someone else knows who you are
IP
09:32
I P
that is why people call their crypto B-cash, Z-cash,
MF
09:33
Mr Flintstone
then you are no longer anonymous
Z
09:33
Zack
In Mexico I used something very cool with localbitcoins.
The localbitcoin person would give me a number, and I would type the number into a BBVA ATM, and money would come out.
The bank never learned my name.
I haven't had this happen anywhere else yet.
The localbitcoin person would give me a number, and I would type the number into a BBVA ATM, and money would come out.
The bank never learned my name.
I haven't had this happen anywhere else yet.
IP
09:34
I P
when you buy mining equipment with your credit card you are no more anonymous
OK
09:34
O K
In the US with bank account deposits you have to show an ID
MF
09:34
Mr Flintstone
people buy gpus a lot
09:34
not for crypto until recently
OK
09:34
O K
Back in the day, you could do coinapult, and that was pretty damn anonymous
09:35
You took cash to walmart service desk, and paid cash, I always put fake name, fake address, fake phone number
09:35
The minimum wage people didn't get paid enough to care
Z
09:35
Zack
When I was in Tel Aviv it was super anonymous.
I would just sit around the bitcoin embassy, and wait for someone to come use the bitcoin ATM. Then I would sell to them at a better price than the ATM.
I would just sit around the bitcoin embassy, and wait for someone to come use the bitcoin ATM. Then I would sell to them at a better price than the ATM.
OK
09:35
O K
ha!
IP
MF
09:36
Mr Flintstone
lol yeah
IP
09:37
I P
by the way, did you notice that crypto trading on exchanges is down in volume like very much down?
09:39
all except one=) do you know which one?=)
N
09:41
NM$L
Nobody want to buy a cheap veo?
IP
09:41
Deleted Account
Buy, not steal...
N
IP
09:43
Deleted Account
Everyone was buying yesterday and earlier today until the VPS's went down, now nobody is buying :(
IP
OK
09:43
O K
Maybe now is just not the right time of day
09:43
Deleted Account
Very possilbe
09:43
and probable
OK
09:43
O K
lol
IP
N
09:44
pool down?
09:44
Deleted Account
Not yesterday, today
09:44
Pool went down for like 15-20 minutes
Z
09:44
Zack
who is running the network status page? do I need to make a new one?
N
09:44
NM$L
15-20min, It doesn't matter.
OK
09:44
O K
You don't need to make a new one
N
09:46
NM$L
what do you think of btc's trend?
09:46
Can be talk here?
09:46
Deleted Account
I think we're at a crucial support point
IP
N
09:47
NM$L
I think btc price is more important. if we want veo be succeed
09:48
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Now I assigned domain name to network status page
veoscan.io
veoscan.io
IP
09:48
I P
In reply to this message
well btc price is more important because btc is the crypto for 99.9% people who heard about crypto
OK
09:49
Deleted Account
Old one redirects to new one
Z
N
09:49
NM$L
It's a invaluable domain.
09:50
like etherscan.io
Z
09:50
Zack
I think this site is mostly only used by node operators, so we can quickly check if our nodes died.
IP
09:50
I P
actually if we want to talk btc price, you need to know one thing really. volume on all exchanges ran literally dry except for bitmex
OK
IP
09:51
I P
but bitmex is really an exchange where you don;t have fiar
OK
IP
09:51
bitmex
09:52
volume is shown below
09:52
5.5bln$ volume on that big red candle
Z
09:52
Zack
bitmex has no fees, so it is easy to fake volume.
OK
09:53
O K
So it's, according to that chart, where it was in November?
IP
09:53
I P
bitfinex
OK
09:53
O K
That seems healthy to me
IP
MF
09:53
Mr Flintstone
we could just be in the beginning of a saucer like after late 2013
IP
09:53
I P
bitmex order book is really thick
MF
09:53
Mr Flintstone
but the space is so different now I can’t imagine it lasting as long
IP
09:53
I P
actually okex fakes 90% of volume lol
09:54
the thing with bitmex it does not need fiat(!!!)
09:54
you literally trade bitcoin vs bitcoin on a margin
09:54
and you win bitcoin which you go and dump on bitfinex to get real fiat
N
IP
Z
09:55
Zack
so bitmex is a centralized competitor to us.
We want to move these markets to Amoveo.
We want to move these markets to Amoveo.
N
09:55
NM$L
let's make veo replace btc
IP
MF
09:56
Mr Flintstone
no reason why their backend can’t be run in a smart contract
IP
09:56
I P
it will literallyu mean that btc is going down to 2-4k range
N
09:56
NM$L
if we see 6k. I could sell my veo at 80$
OK
09:57
O K
I would prefer not to see 6k, but I don't worry about price fluctuations... This is the future
09:58
Can't wait to see veo replace bitmex
09:58
Deleted Account
^
IP
09:58
I P
the thing is
09:59
best scenario for btc is go to 7k and pull back at 8.5k+ and continue to slowly crawl its way up
09:59
this is what you want to see
10:00
worst scenario is try to break 9.5k right now, fail, crash to 7-6k, bounce, get rejected at 8k, crash to 2-4k
OK
10:00
O K
🔮
N
IP
10:01
I P
meanwhile you want to see market cap gets pulled from other cryptos for btc to dominate at least 50% of the market
10:02
this would mean that people took final profits from that altcoin bubble we had
10:02
actually, it was that alcoin bubble which dragged down btc
10:02
people bought btc to get into altcoins which were pumping like crazy, pumped btc meanwhile
N
10:02
NM$L
Do you have large btc
IP
10:03
I P
and that whole house of cards went crashing hard
N
10:03
NM$L
I think your thinking is clear.
IP
10:03
well not cahs but usdt
10:04
and that house of cards went crashing hard because people took massive profits on the altcoins into btc and from btc into fiat
MF
10:04
Mr Flintstone
holding 70% in usdt I love the aggression
N
10:04
NM$L
must be Mine disaster until next bull market
IP
Z
10:05
Zack
I think that tether will break and lose most of it's value in a short period of time.
IP
10:05
I P
In reply to this message
well if that is so btc is going to 1k$ and all other cryptos render worthless at all
MF
10:05
Mr Flintstone
I disagree. I think this market is more than resilient enough to handle a fraudulent tether operation
IP
10:06
I P
because tether crash will put down bitfinex, bittrex, binance.. do i need to continue?
Z
10:06
Zack
wouldn't bitcoin be more valuable if tether died?
IP
Z
10:06
Zack
tether is a competitor for some use cases
IP
10:07
I P
one mention of subpoena to tether or bitfinex (i don't remember which was that) crashed btc from 15k to 10k or so
Z
10:07
Zack
maybe tether will survive long enough until the dollar dies, and they can die together
10:08
as long as the dollar is losing value fast enough, tether will survive
IP
10:08
I P
as long as bitfinex is able to access banking services in any part of the world tether is fine
10:11
as rumor has it bitfinex and tether have their money in rotschild banks like ING and others
Z
10:12
Zack
seems like the market cap is between 1.3 million and 2.4 million. Amoveo is almost 1 month old.
10:14
Deleted Account
A month like half year :)
N
10:14
NM$L
around #700 at cap
IP
10:15
I P
buy the way, tether printed 300mln more tokens https://www.omniexplorer.info/address/1NTMakcgVwQpMdGxRQnFKyb3G1FAJysSfz it was mar 20
10:15
and people were expecting btc price to pump
10:15
but only 70mln were sent at 22mar
10:15
and 22mar was dumping
N
10:15
NM$L
need more money
Z
10:25
Zack
IP, stop talking about tether and bitcoin price. you are repetitive and off-topic.
IP
Z
OK
10:28
O K
I think there's an off-topic channel in th
10:28
lol
10:28
👌
IP
10:29
I P
yep i like discord better
10:29
we should move there anyways
JS
10:32
Jon Snow
Love the crowds energy when talking about price lol
IP
JW
13:10
JZ W
hello，Why the mining efficiency is very low in recent days？
13:13
there are about 5 days, less than 0.2 veo，gtx1060
P|
13:15
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
More miners = higher difficulty = less veo share per GH/s
JW
13:20
JZ W
难度如此之快如此之快？
P|
13:22
😂
JW
P|
13:23
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Same for me.
JW
13:24
JZ W
ok,thank you
16:16
Deleted Account
sell 20 veo @$110, only today
B
17:03
Ben
wow that looks desperate
17:03
i sell 100 VEO @200$ only today
N
17:15
NM$L
150$ here
AS
17:27
Aizen Sou
Dont post ur trading here, please. It clustered the telegram channel too much.
Z
17:28
Zack
In reply to this message
The difficulty went up recently. It became 4x harder to mine Veo.
B
17:29
Ben
and that is only the tip of the iceberg, wait until the chinese Mining Farms find this coin 😔
17:30
Deleted Account
they have no intreast in it
AS
17:38
Aizen Sou
Still no amd miner available 🤣
IP
17:40
big centralized mines are almost all on amd
B
17:46
Ben
remeber my words when the Diff Spikes again
19:27
Deleted Account
Good morning everyone
P|
19:39
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In term of milestones, what are the next steps for Amoveo, both tech and non-tech Zack ?
S
19:50
Sy
Pokemons?
Z
19:52
Zack
In reply to this message
1) we need to get some regulations users in the off chain markets.
2) ask them what we should do next.
2) ask them what we should do next.
S
Z
19:59
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/todo.md
I've got a bunch of smaller goals here.
It isn't so good, I need to delete completed tasks.
I've got a bunch of smaller goals here.
It isn't so good, I need to delete completed tasks.
S
20:05
Sy
cant you use github issue tracking or something?
20:05
or create a project board
Z
20:09
Zack
Yes, we should probably migrate to something like that.
22:03
Deleted Account
building a official website?
S
22:19
Sy
websites...ugh
B
23:16
Ben
i mean if you use github for the Repo why not also the Issue Tracker?
23:16
would make sense
JM
23:26
J M
as far as road map items go, i'd be willing to contribute dev work. I don't know Erlang but could be javascript or front-end work. i'm probably not alone
S
23:40
Sy
frontend improvements would be nice tbh :D
AS
23:40
Aizen Sou
We need a full block explorer with api support
Z
23:41
Zack
The Light node is completely javascript, and it is used by many more people than the full node.
23:42
Amoveo has about the same amount of js and erlang in the main repo.
23:48
Deleted Account
seems many blocks are more than 40 min bow
23:48
now
23:49
any hard fork plan or let it be for some days？
B
23:54
Ben
why should there be a hard fork?
23:54
miners come and go thats usual business
23:54
the current diff algo ist not able to re-adjust fast enough
23:55
as soon as the Network gets more mature (more stable hashrate) this diff algo will perform better
29 March 2018
00:00
Deleted Account
just a suggestion
Z
00:10
Zack
It seems more than fast enough to me.
MF
00:11
Mr Flintstone
you just need to be able to get into lightning network to use the markets
S
00:24
Sy
are there reasons against retargeting like every 500 blocks?
00:24
2000 seems very unflexible
Z
00:24
Zack
If we retarget more frequently, then attacks where they write the wrong timestamp on the block would get worse.
00:25
I don't see any problem with the current retargeting. It seems to be working well.
JM
00:25
J M
what's the easiest way to lookup the balance of an account in javascript?
00:27
i see the block explorers RPC code but idk if i can replicate it
Z
00:27
Zack
In reply to this message
There are 2 ways this can happen.
1) You are trusting some full node. So do it like Explorer.html
2) there is no full node you trust. So do it like wallet.html and verify a merkle proof of the account data.
1) You are trusting some full node. So do it like Explorer.html
2) there is no full node you trust. So do it like wallet.html and verify a merkle proof of the account data.
00:28
You don't have to rewrite rpc.js
You can just reuse it.
You can just reuse it.
JM
00:28
J M
thanks
00:44
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
yes but farms will hop on and hop off opportunistically. i guess you will be okay with that. but it will hurt most the folks who have been here from the start.
Z
00:45
Zack
In reply to this message
I don't see how shortening the retarget period makes us any safer against that sort of failure mode.
S
00:49
Sy
being stuck in high diff for one week instead of a month does sound nice tbh
00:49
but its only a matter of time, if this doesnt die it will gain traction and hardly anyone will have enough impact at that point
00:49
i mean TH is just the beginning...
Z
00:50
Zack
If we spend 95% of our time doing 1 hour + blocks, it doesn't matter whether we get a batch of fast blocks once a week or once a month.
The failure mode is equally damaging.
The failure mode is equally damaging.
B
00:51
Ben
there is a reason why most coins these days have diff re-target per block
00:51
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
yes, that way the regular miners wont be penalized for a whole month/ or longer periods. but again as hash climbs, this will have lesser impact
S
00:52
Sy
zack you are assuming that its a static environment, big miner on, big miner off - but thats not the case so right now its more hurting than a 500 block retarget would
Z
00:52
Zack
Besides, this sort of failure mode has not happened to amoveo yet.
During this difficulty period, as long as the block time is below 40 minutes, then an oscillation failure mode is not happening.
During this difficulty period, as long as the block time is below 40 minutes, then an oscillation failure mode is not happening.
OK
S
00:52
Sy
im afraid very soon there will only be one way for the diff....up
OK
00:54
O K
Personally not opposed to some future change in difficulty algo if necessary, but I also don't think that what's happened so far is necessarily very bad, yet. It just hasn't been that long, and it's an opportunity for people who own their hardware to step up. The return is still better here than on anything on "whattomine"
00:55
We can all take this opportunity to contribute and build and proofread what we can, and add value to amoveo
00:55
I have a lot of learning and understanding to do so I can better explain, I'm sure I'm not alone
Z
00:57
Zack
If this failure mode did occur, I think changing the retarget period would not be a viable solution.
I recently wrote a document explaining what would solve a problem like this. https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/design/retargetting_stability.md
I recently wrote a document explaining what would solve a problem like this. https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/design/retargetting_stability.md
00:58
If this failure mode ever happens, this is what I would change: Instead of (New Price) = (OldPrice) * 600 / (block period) It should be (New Price) = (Old Price) * sqrt(600 / (block period))
00:58
Basically, we need to dampen the oscillations.
OK
00:59
O K
That seems sensible
Z
01:08
Zack
Humans have more experience with continuous oscillators like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_oscillator
We using a discrete analog to describe these sorts of attacks.
The solution I offer is like manipulating "c" which is the friction constant to try and make the oscillator be critically damped, to stop oscillating as soon as possible.
We using a discrete analog to describe these sorts of attacks.
The solution I offer is like manipulating "c" which is the friction constant to try and make the oscillator be critically damped, to stop oscillating as soon as possible.
01:19
Looks like the block time is at 30 minutes.
We are getting pretty close to the point where the upgrade to dampen oscillations makes sense.
If we do this upgrade, it will stop the difficulty from dropping too much at the next retargeting.
We are getting pretty close to the point where the upgrade to dampen oscillations makes sense.
If we do this upgrade, it will stop the difficulty from dropping too much at the next retargeting.
J
01:28
Jim
Here's how the new difficulty would look using current data:
01:28
Z
MF
01:42
Mr Flintstone
dampening oscillations in a rising hash rate environments accelerates inflation FYI
Z
01:44
When it goes up, we keep the same formula
MF
01:48
Mr Flintstone
what situation are we exactly trying to avoid
01:48
like what is the failure mode exactly
Z
01:50
Zack
The failure mode would be if we are under charging miners for the block rewards.
MF
01:51
oh
01:51
as in lots of miners push the hash rate up because it’s profitable, and then leave when it becomes unprofitable after diff adj?
01:52
that way they create an arbitrage in mining
MF
01:53
Mr Flintstone
if that is case, leaving upside undampened and dampening downside will hurt block times more.
01:54
I’m not convinced this is anything near a significant failure mode tho
OK
01:54
O K
As we gather organic hashpower outside of AWS miners, I think this problem will not be as bad anyway
MF
01:54
Mr Flintstone
also, once we have ASICs there probably won’t be this problem
OK
01:54
O K
AWS people shut off and stop paying, but for hardware owners, most don't shut off. They have to have somewhere to go
MF
01:55
Mr Flintstone
like how many other coins use exact same pow?
S
01:55
Sy
none
02:01
Deleted Account
Anyone buying right now?
Z
02:06
Zack
In reply to this message
I think this is the most likely way Amoveo could fail, at least until we have ASICS. Then we will be secure against this problem.
02:07
Deleted Account
Nahhh lol
I
02:08
Iridescence
You could make the difficulty retargeting period be a function of blocktimes
02:09
That is, instead of difficulty retargeting every N blocks, you would have it retargeting every T days (or whatever suitable unit of time)
Z
02:11
Zack
In reply to this message
Maybe.
That would make the consensus algorithm considerably more complicated. The security proofs would all get a lot bigger and harder to verify.
But maybe it is worth it.
That would make the consensus algorithm considerably more complicated. The security proofs would all get a lot bigger and harder to verify.
But maybe it is worth it.
02:12
We need to analyze all the attacks where 49% of miners are writing incorrect timestamps on the blocks.
02:13
Maybe these attacks seem a little theoretical now, since it isn't worth anyone's time to actually commit them. But if Amoveo is to become the biggest blockchain, we need to actually be secure.
Security by obscurity will not cut it.
Security by obscurity will not cut it.
MF
02:14
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
I think this problem is more specific to early stage pow chains
02:14
pre asic
02:14
if we are anywhere close to being the biggest chain we will have ASICs
Z
02:14
Zack
Maybe we should have a different codebase ready and switch once asics become available.
02:15
I am thinking the hashpower(difficulty) function is like O(1/difficulty) for GPU, and it is like O(1) for ASICS.
02:17
I could be wrong, I haven't done anything to try and actually measure it.
02:18
Bitcoin's formula assumes it is O(1), and it seems to work well with ASICS.
02:39
Deleted Account
wow, what is difficulty at these days... must be super high?
I
02:39
Iridescence
13000 I believe
02:39
Roughly 50 zeros
Z
02:42
Deleted Account
crazy... anyone buying at prices that make sense to mine?
OK
02:42
O K
The only price calculations we ever did were with regard to rented hashpower
02:49
Deleted Account
Given the current hash rate and rate of obtaining a coin, I'd say $150 is more than fair at this point
S
02:49
Sy
its as usual, the price is what ppl are willing to pay, its hardly ever based on price of production in coins tbh
02:50
loosely based yes but as the current diff adjust shows, price doesnt just go up 4 times...
M
02:52
Mike
In reply to this message
I’m sure anyone with over 100 cards could figure out how to make the miner
02:52
Probably people mining with AMD cards already I’m guessing
Z
02:52
Zack
After that hard fork at 9000, now it is a lot easier to write a miner. The code is simpler.
02:53
In reply to this message
it someone already wrote the code, why wouldn't they do this? : https://www.reddit.com/r/Amoveo/comments/87n83x/veominer/
Make a compiled version that takes a little of the tokens.
Make a compiled version that takes a little of the tokens.
03:01
Deleted Account
To anyone knowledgeable about mining.....
03:02
Will a regular USB 3.0 to USB 3.0 work for risers?
03:02
For instance if were to get longer cables.
OK
03:03
O K
It's just a USB cable afaik
03:03
Nothing special about it
03:03
Deleted Account
That's what I thought
03:03
Just wanted to make sure
04:14
i saw block reward down to 0.9
OK
04:14
O K
Block reward is 1
04:27
Deleted Account
then the pool fee is .1?
Z
04:28
Zack
In reply to this message
my pool is charging 0.02 veo, it pays out 0.98 veo.
You get paid if you have more than 0.5 veo in the mining pool.
You get paid if you have more than 0.5 veo in the mining pool.
04:28
0.9 veo is > 0.5, so if you had that many, you would get paid.
04:29
Deleted Account
ah,i see，
04:29
thx
Z
04:29
Zack
you have 25k shares out of a total of 28k
So for every block found, you get about (0.98)*(25/28) veo
So for every block found, you get about (0.98)*(25/28) veo
AS
06:00
Aizen Sou
In reply to this message
Are u saying that all altcoins besides Bitcoin which have diff retarget lower than 2000 blocks suffer from the same vulnerability? Or it's the case only for Amoveo?
Z
06:04
It isn't a "vulnerability".
AS
06:04
Aizen Sou
Sorry but i don't understand ur answer
06:05
Not a vulnerability when it could be a point of attack ? What do u call it then ?
Z
06:06
Zack
Having shorter retargetting periods makes us more vulnerable to attacks where miners write the wrong timestamp.
A blockchain is only as secure as it's weakest link.
If there is some other aspect that is much easier to attack, then it wouldn't matter if the timestamp attack became a little less expensive.
A blockchain is only as secure as it's weakest link.
If there is some other aspect that is much easier to attack, then it wouldn't matter if the timestamp attack became a little less expensive.
06:06
If the timestamp attack already happens to be the weak link, then it would be bad to make it more vulnerable.
06:06
I am not certain which type of attack is least expensive to commit against Amoveo.
06:08
If the gate of a castle is too strong, then they invade by attacking somewhere besides the gate.
If the gate is 1000x stronger than any other part of the wall, it is still technically possible to attack the gate, but invaders would prefer attacking some other part of the wall that is weaker.
If the gate is 1000x stronger than any other part of the wall, it is still technically possible to attack the gate, but invaders would prefer attacking some other part of the wall that is weaker.
06:08
Blockchain security is like a castle.
There are many different ways to attack it.
There are many different ways to attack it.
06:09
Every blockchain technically could be subjected to a timestamp attack, but on some blockchains the timestamp attack is more expensive to pull off than other types of attacks.
06:10
Usually when we say "vulnerability", we mean that a certain type of attack is so cheap to pull off, that the cost to the attacker for committing the attack is less than the amount of value that the attacker can destroy.
06:11
It is nearly impossible for me to guess how short we can make the block retargeting period until it becomes a vulnerability.
The best I can do is to assume that bitcoin is secure, and copy bitcoin's strategy.
The best I can do is to assume that bitcoin is secure, and copy bitcoin's strategy.
06:12
We are below 15 minutes per block again.
It looks like Amoveo is doing fine.
It looks like Amoveo is doing fine.
06:14
http://veoscan.io/
Check it out, it says the location of the full node servers now.
Check it out, it says the location of the full node servers now.
AS
06:15
Aizen Sou
There are 1000 alts which have shorter retarget period than Bitcoin and some of them are pretty secure.
Z
06:17
Zack
How do you know that they aren't suffering timestamp attacks?
06:17
It is a lot of work to check if they are.
AS
06:17
Aizen Sou
I don't know about it that's why I ask.
06:19
Some biggest (marketcapwise) PoW coins now are Litecoin, Monero, Dash, Zcash.
06:20
I think only Litecoin has around 2k blocks diff retarget period like Bitcoin, but they have shorter block time
Z
06:20
Zack
This would be an interesting research project. You could do some statistics.
If a blockchain is worth less than $100 million, it can be ignored. So there are about 24 blockchains you could look at.
But ultimately, you can only prove that it is vulnerable at a certain retargeting rate. It is impossible to prove that it is secure.
If a blockchain is worth less than $100 million, it can be ignored. So there are about 24 blockchains you could look at.
But ultimately, you can only prove that it is vulnerable at a certain retargeting rate. It is impossible to prove that it is secure.
06:21
I wonder if bitcoin is suffering any timestamp attacks? it is probably the easiest to check, since there are so many bitcoin explorer websites
OK
06:21
O K
I would assume if these blockchains were suffering timestamp attacks, not that one person would be responsible for investigating that it happens, but rather someone would be negatively impacted by it and would notice, and speak out, right?
Z
06:22
Zack
Not necessarily.
It could be that all the miners are making 2% less money, and some coalition of miners is making 7% extra money.
It could be that all the miners are making 2% less money, and some coalition of miners is making 7% extra money.
06:22
The average miner wouldn't notice something like this, or speak out.
06:23
Even with statistics, I think this isn't something that we can measure after the fact.
You would need to download the blocks as they are made, and compare the current time to the timestamp.
You would need to download the blocks as they are made, and compare the current time to the timestamp.
AS
06:24
Aizen Sou
In reply to this message
My coin is one in ur list and i'm pretty sure that we didn't use 1000 blocks period. About timestamp attack i'm not sure about it but at least it's significant so it really required a fix.
Z
06:24
Zack
Maybe you could do statistics to compare how much more the difficulty oscillates compared with the expected amount. But it is pretty difficult to know what the expected amount should be.
06:26
mining pools that switch to the most profitable coin could be unknowingly contributing to how much damage is inflicted by timestamp attacks.
06:28
I don't see any problems with how Amoveo is currently retargeting.
I think it is bad to try and fix thing that are not broken.
We shouldn't waste any energy on this.
I think it is bad to try and fix thing that are not broken.
We shouldn't waste any energy on this.
OK
AS
06:31
Aizen Sou
Wait until AMD miner is out and see just one big farm could rape the diff retarget. Then we could talk about it again.
06:37
Deleted Account
why do we wait for asics while nearly all of the crypto community are trying to avoid them
Z
06:39
Zack
In reply to this message
The transition from one mining technology to the next is dangerous.
Most blockchains decide to avoid this transition as long as possible. They don't solve the problem now, and instead expect people in the future to solve it.
With Amoveo we want to solve all the problems as soon as possible. That way we don't have to worry about the future.
Most blockchains decide to avoid this transition as long as possible. They don't solve the problem now, and instead expect people in the future to solve it.
With Amoveo we want to solve all the problems as soon as possible. That way we don't have to worry about the future.
06:41
Deleted Account
yes, i agree. my point is, at this early stage we can change the pow algorithm to a lot more asic proof (one can design such asic but it’d be very very costly)
Z
06:44
Zack
In reply to this message
I think you don't understand.
It is easier to solve problems and adapt when the blockchain is young. Now is the best time to transition to ASICS. Now there is less money at risk.
If we wait 5 years, then there will be a lot of money at risk. The transition to ASICS will be more dangerous.
It is easier to solve problems and adapt when the blockchain is young. Now is the best time to transition to ASICS. Now there is less money at risk.
If we wait 5 years, then there will be a lot of money at risk. The transition to ASICS will be more dangerous.
06:46
Are you from Turkey Baris?
06:46
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
how about no transition to asics? we can make an adaptive algorithm such that no one would even try to design an asic for that
06:46
yes, I am from Turkey
Z
06:48
Additionally, blockchains are a lot less secure if it is possible to use the same miner for different blockchains.
06:49
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
I’ve been reading about how such algorithms can be possible(nothing academical), but you’re the expert.
06:52
Deleted Account
seems eth devs are inching towards a HF to avoid asics, monero did that too. are they all wrong
06:53
?
Z
07:08
Zack
What do you mean by "wrong"?
07:09
Different strategies will benefit different people.
Depending on who you are, you might prefer one or the other.
Depending on who you are, you might prefer one or the other.
07:12
Or maybe I could say it better.
Our strategy is more high-risk in the next 2 years, and lower risk from that point on.
Monero strategy is lower risk now, and higher risk after 2 years or so.
Our strategy is more high-risk in the next 2 years, and lower risk from that point on.
Monero strategy is lower risk now, and higher risk after 2 years or so.
JS
07:16
Jon Snow
I agree with Zack on the ASIC issue.
07:29
Deleted Account
any updates on ASIC manufacturing? Is there a project going on?
MF
07:33
Mr Flintstone
how much would it cost to develop asics?
Z
07:43
Zack
First step for ASICS is to rewrite the miner into VHDL or Verilog.
I think we should try and get an OpenCL miner working first before we try to make ASICS.
I think we should try and get an OpenCL miner working first before we try to make ASICS.
07:44
I think it would cost about $2000 to have the first few ASICS made to verify that the VHDL code is correct.
OK
07:44
O K
I can't say I know anything about it, but that sounds very low to me
07:45
I think you are excluding design costs, labor etc
Z
07:45
Zack
We will get the best price per ASIC if we pay like $1 000 000 to have a full sheet of Amoveo ASICS made.
or we can share a sheet with someone else, have fewer ASICS made, and pay a little more per ASIC.
or we can share a sheet with someone else, have fewer ASICS made, and pay a little more per ASIC.
07:46
A sheet is really big, and it gets chopped up to make lots of ASICS.
Like cutting a pizza into slices
Like cutting a pizza into slices
07:46
Since Amoveo's mining algorithm is so simple, we should be able to fit a lot of ASICs per square meter
07:49
Usually people think the progression is like this
CPU -> GPU -> FPGA -> ASIC
But it is more complicated there are different levels of ASICS available, like steps in between FPGA and ASIC.
CPU -> GPU -> FPGA -> ASIC
But it is more complicated there are different levels of ASICS available, like steps in between FPGA and ASIC.
07:51
There is one kind of ASIC where the first few layers of silicone contain some cookie cutter tools that are useful to almost everyone, and we only program the top couple of layers.
This makes it much cheaper than a full ASIC, and nearly as fast.
This makes it much cheaper than a full ASIC, and nearly as fast.
Z
08:09
Zack
I started closing the oracle from last time. We never really used it.
I made a new oracle to bet on whether the difficulty will go up or down at height 14000.
I made a new oracle to bet on whether the difficulty will go up or down at height 14000.
08:09
It costs like $60 to make an oracle now.
OK
08:10
O K
Yikes!
Z
08:10
once the oracle gets included in the next block, I can make markets
08:11
In reply to this message
It is a governance variable, so we can change it.
But I think $60 might even be a little low. Hard to be sure.
But I think $60 might even be a little low. Hard to be sure.
MF
08:18
Mr Flintstone
why would 60 be low
Z
08:18
Zack
I made the market
08:19
In reply to this message
$60 is the initial prize in the oracle to incentivize us to participate honestly.
If only $0.10 was at stake, then we might all ignore the oracle and it could lie.
If only $0.10 was at stake, then we might all ignore the oracle and it could lie.
08:19
I made the market
08:20
We can now bet on whether the difficulty will be higher or lower in the next round
08:22
Someone should auction off some Veo so we can get a better idea what the price is.
OK
08:36
O K
Will you link the instructions for participating in the market please Zack?
Z
08:40
Zack
Use the light wallet gui
08:41
It has to be the light wallet from the full node that is running the market
PS
08:58
Patrick Sum
In reply to this message
Regarding fee, I saw those Trx from ‘BPWNDtq..’(Zack’s pool?) charged 0.00152118 per Trx instead of 0.00152050. Why?
Z
09:03
Zack
The config file in your full node has defaults programmed for the miner fee.
It pays more than amoveopool2 default miner fee.
It pays more than amoveopool2 default miner fee.
09:04
I think we can actually use 151128, and it would still get included.
09:05
We are down to 12 minutes per block.
OK
09:06
O K
👍
09:13
Deleted Account
great
09:14
In reply to this message
Have you looked into the address input issue on mobile phone? It bothers me a lot
OK
09:15
O K
Yes bo, I couldn't reproduce it on my android phone
09:18
What exactly happens when you try to paste the data?
09:22
Deleted Account
09:23
click miner it just display this webpage. nothing else.
OK
09:24
O K
I think it might be behind the menu, let me see if there is an easy fix for that
09:24
Deleted Account
and type amoveopool2.com/miner＝xxxxxxxxxx also display this page. nothing else
09:27
Thank u, bro
OK
09:42
O K
It's raw
09:42
But try it @smubo
09:45
Remember to refresh
09:50
Deleted Account
not working in fact.
09:50
😅
OK
09:51
O K
When you cilck "hide"? above the menu?
09:51
Show me another picture?
09:51
Deleted Account
Maybe I shouldn't use mobile phone to monitor. I can learn
OK
09:52
O K
😕I'm sorry, it works fine on my phone... maybe try firefox?
09:52
Deleted Account
OK
09:52
O K
That's very weird
09:52
Deleted Account
click hide then this page displayed
09:53
OK i will try to use PC more
OK
09:54
O K
I tried chrome on my android too, it works there also
P|
09:54
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
@potat_o Is there a way to manually withdraw balance less than 1 veo from your pool?
OK
09:55
O K
Try firefox. I'm sorry, if I get a chance to test on an iphone I will
09:55
Hey paul, right now that's not a feature
Z
09:58
Zack
In my pool it pays out to anyone with more than 0.5 Veo
P|
09:58
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
That means right now I have to spend more money to get some of my portion of veo back?
OK
10:00
O K
I don't know anything about spending money, you just need to mine 1 veo to reach the payout threshold
P|
10:00
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Mandel left to group?
10:01
In reply to this message
"Just"? You mean I have to spend $200 in mining to get $20 out for each account that I have?
OK
10:02
O K
Paul, I don't know anything about your financial situation. Minimum payout thresholds are standard for mining pools
10:02
Not in Amoveo, cross-crypto
P|
10:02
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
What standard?
10:03
1 veo? 0.1 veo?
10:03
Bitcoin pool doesn't set payout threshold to be at 1 BTC right now
10:03
So what standard.
10:04
My guess is that you are greedy, and you just want to rob veo of small miners who don't have enough hash power to accumulate to 1 veo.
10:04
And everyone here should believe the same, unless you prove us wrong.
10:09
The pool has absolutely no reason to withhold the payout, since the txn fee can be imposed on miners anyways.
OK
10:09
O K
Sorry, but I shouldn't do partial payouts or I'll risk causing inconsistencies in the payout system. In the future, the payout threshold may lower. To be perfectly honest, Veo hasn't been around that long. As someone with a fair amount of mining experience, I think you should just finish mining to the mining threshhold that was advertised on the site. You're fortunate with amoveo, because it doesn't take that long with little hashpower.
P|
10:12
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
So you choose to just say "f**k you, you small flies" huh? Well, my assumtion now becomes that you don't jave enough veo to pay everyone, and you starts robbing people to fill up your depleted bag.
OK
10:12
O K
I'm not going to be bullied, Paul. I mine with three cards. I still get veo payouts often enough.
P|
10:13
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Your software probably has bugs that payout more than you should.
OK
10:13
O K
If you want to wait for the payout threshold to lower, that's up to you
P|
10:16
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Ok, so it is now obvious to me that you don't seem to be willing enough to work with community for a fair adjustment. Nor do I believe that you are technically capable of making any change in your own pool, unless you prove it otherwise.
OK
10:17
O K
You're welcome to believe whatever you like
P|
10:19
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Everyone here should judge by themselves.
Z
10:20
Zack
I am adding a feature to my pool so that I can pay out any individual's remaining Veo, even if they have less than 0.5 veo.
P|
10:23
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Zack I now have a strong incentive to work on the frontend for your pool, since it clearly aims to provide the best possible experience for Amoveo commynity members and supporters, while to monopolizing alternative does otherwise.
10:24
So I'll work on that this weekend.
Z
10:24
Zack
It is open source, everyone can run one
10:24
it has the same dependencies as the erlang full node, so you don't have to install anything extra.
P|
10:25
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
Ok, hopefully nobody will fall into Amoveopool's jargon again.
10:27
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
calm down maybe? while your frustation is not misplaced, you cannot contest the terms you agree with at the start. when you start mining, you know the rules. you dont like it debate or look elsewhere.
10:28
to clarify i mine with 1 card at OK's pool and payout threshold would mean that i would mine for a long time for my veo to mature. but hey i knew that and i can be patient
P|
10:32
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
I placed my trust with Mandel that he's willing to make a reasonable adjustment for the community. Now he's gone and we are left with a pool manager who, I assume, isn't technically capable to make any adjustment and is here only to milk free veo.
10:33
Now that Mandel is gone, everyone here should reevaluate the legitimacy of Amoveopool
Z
10:35
Zack
I finished running tests and pushed the update. Now I can pay out anyone who wants to leave my pool early. Just send me a message with your pubkey.
10:35
I will add it to the documentation too, for anyone else who is running a pool.
N
10:48
NM$L
wts 5veo@130
Z
10:56
Zack
I updated the documentation to explain how to do this command, for anyone else who is running the same mining pool software.
IP
11:03
I P
Paul you behave unreasonable. Diff adjustment screw us all into getting much less veo but we all know that payout threshold on that pool is 1 veo. There is no point in your shittalk.
11:05
Deleted Account
This difficulty really sucks.
P|
11:18
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
@kitty123 Feel free to point out which part I was being unreasonable, as I always provided my reason.
11:19
The I have made the point of my talk very clear -- I want changes. So "there is no point" is incorrect.
IP
P|
11:20
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
You have the right to say you disagree. But you do not have a right to disregard my opinion for other people.
IP
P|
11:22
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
I belived he was greedy, judging from his behaviors.
I told him multiple times to prove me wrong, but he did not provide any substantial evidence to do so.
I told him multiple times to prove me wrong, but he did not provide any substantial evidence to do so.
IP
11:24
I P
In reply to this message
On the website it clearly states veo payout threshold is 1. Where is greed in this i do not understand
P|
11:26
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
Where? Tell me. Give me a link
11:30
I can find NONE. There has never been any written agreement on the mining contract. There is no statement saying the payout is every 1 VEO accumulated.
11:30
@kitty123 I would call your claim nonesense.
11:31
Why would anyone in this community give hashpower to the pool that don't even say it'll pay?
JW
P|
11:38
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
You should not trust it. Use Zack's pool or any that runs on an open source software.
IP
11:39
now i remeber that when i could not find that info i just asked and got an answer that threshold for payouts it 1 veo
11:40
but that makes your claims even more invalid, there was no promise from the start. If you were not ok with that- why start mining there?
11:41
In reply to this message
well not really, it works and will continue working. One man complaints can't change that
P|
11:42
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
Because I was too dumb to see that Amoveopool2.com operator isn't trustworthy.
IP
11:43
I P
In reply to this message
well, he is trustworthy. I got all my payout once unpaid balance got to 1
P|
11:43
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
That's your opinion, not mine.
IP
11:44
I P
In reply to this message
that's not an opinion, that's a fact. I got all my payouts once unpaid balance went to 1
P|
11:45
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
Your claim that
he is trustworthy — that's an opinion.
11:45
Deleted Account
calm down. and once the difficulty decreases u can get ur veo back
11:46
but if the difficulty goes up, i will give up mining too
P|
11:46
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
Wrong. I have to mine more either way, which I'm not willing to do for a dishonest pool.
IP
11:46
I P
by the way, other pool has that disclaimer "Noncense pool url is http://amoveo.noncense.tech:4001
Noncense Pool has 2% fee. Payout to miner public key occurs when "Pending Payout" reaches 1.0 Amoveo."
Noncense Pool has 2% fee. Payout to miner public key occurs when "Pending Payout" reaches 1.0 Amoveo."
11:47
so looks like all pools have that 1 veo payout
P|