Amoveo ♥🧿
Previous messages
It can be safely ignored.
Next messages
11 March 2018
S
04:34
Sy
you could run river water through your datacenter to cool but i think with the amounts we are talking about here you might actually heat up the river and damage the eco system - i know google is doing it with data centeres at the ocean
04:34
ocean doesnt really care about little data centers heat xD
Z
04:34
Zack
If it is a big enough river you will be fine
S
04:34
Sy
or fast enough...probably
04:35
but if you want to build at such locations your usage has to be in the megawats....way different league ^^
OK
04:35
O K
You can make hydroelectricity with an old washing machine
Z
04:35
Zack
so would you have little copper pipes of river water flowing against the copper things stuck onto your processing units?
S
04:35
Sy
i saw those adds while looking for water powerplants... "4 mw 24/7 looking for power plant" xD
04:36
na it should be enough if you can just cool the air within the room with river water
Z
04:36
Zack
Maybe the hot water could even be used for something.
S
04:36
Sy
like the heat exchanger in water cooling systems, you get a large area cool with river water and thus blow in cooler air
OK
04:36
O K
I think the heated pool was a good idea, do it in a very cold region
04:37
make it a spa
S
04:37
Sy
after all we are not talking about 15C data centers, mining farms are comfortable at much higher temperatures ^^
Z
04:37
Zack
right, you blow in cool air. that makes sense
Sebastian Dirman joined group by link from Group
S
04:38
Sy
one chinese farm did that, they made a cardboard "net" in front of their windows slowly dripping water of it thus cooling the air that rushes through the hall
04:38
primitive AC, cheap and effective enough
04:38
Deleted Account
Zack lives in the blockchain. He is an advanced AI
Z
04:38
Zack
I heard some Silicone Valley company was using wet cardboard for cooling like that
OK
04:38
O K
He's mad at me
Z
04:39
Zack
Where do you live O K?
04:39
cool
S
04:39
Sy
you can build ACs via the river too, like normal heatpipes, transport heat out and cool it somewhere else - no need to get close to the units ^^
Z
04:40
Zack
In reply to this message
yeah, and then you could reuse the same water for cooling and heating. It would be cleaner.
04:40
Deleted Account
Have you guys ever thought that we might all live in blockchains and religion is our way of trying to mount a 51% attack ?
I
OK
04:41
Deleted Account
You can’t prove that we don’t live in a blockchain based simulation.
OK
04:42
O K
Teslaboy would argue that it's more likely that we are in a simulation than that we aren't
S
04:42
Sy
lol ^^
04:42
yep and then again he argues, what would be the difference or what would it change
04:42
you are still the same, your goals and needs are still the same so, it doesnt matter
OK
04:42
O K
Doesn't make a difference to me anyway, the only meaning life has is what you give it yourself
Z
04:42
Zack
Due to market pressure, I reduced the mining fee in my pool to 5%
S
04:42
Sy
but this might be a religion of the future :D
OK
04:43
O K
I like the religion where everyone sings row row row your boat
S
04:43
Sy
gently down the blockchain!
OK
04:43
O K
xD
S
04:43
Sy
verify verify verify you may never miss a hash!
04:43
Deleted Account
Quantum indeterminacy is just a process of writing on the blockchain when observer makes an observation.
Z
04:44
Zack
Lets use this channel to discuss Amoveo.
04:44
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Problem 1) makes sense and I can see why ASICs might help (though I wonder if there is some game theoretic solution here)
Could you explain problem 2) further? Why is miners profiting from cheap coins a bad thing? Was what Kassel and BATman did bad?
> If only 10% of the worlds GPU are pointed at your blockchain, then it isn't so hard for the attacker to convince 10% of GPU owners to sell their power to him. Since the market is so big, it will be liquid. The price will stay about the same as he buys more hashpower.
I don't see why percentages matter more than absolute values. Even with very little slippage in the price, we're still talking about buying an absolute amount of hashpower equal to that of the network. If Amoveo indeed captures 10% of the global total of gpu-hashpower, someone would have to have very deep pockets indeed to mount an attack
> If 90% of the worlds asics of this type are pointed at your blockchain, then it is more difficult for the attacker. The market is much less liquid, so the price rises quickly as he purchases more hashpower.
But if 90% represents a small absolute number of asics of this type, couldn't someone with a few million to spare just manufacture more and mount an attack?
Could you explain problem 2) further? Why is miners profiting from cheap coins a bad thing? Was what Kassel and BATman did bad?
> If only 10% of the worlds GPU are pointed at your blockchain, then it isn't so hard for the attacker to convince 10% of GPU owners to sell their power to him. Since the market is so big, it will be liquid. The price will stay about the same as he buys more hashpower.
I don't see why percentages matter more than absolute values. Even with very little slippage in the price, we're still talking about buying an absolute amount of hashpower equal to that of the network. If Amoveo indeed captures 10% of the global total of gpu-hashpower, someone would have to have very deep pockets indeed to mount an attack
> If 90% of the worlds asics of this type are pointed at your blockchain, then it is more difficult for the attacker. The market is much less liquid, so the price rises quickly as he purchases more hashpower.
But if 90% represents a small absolute number of asics of this type, couldn't someone with a few million to spare just manufacture more and mount an attack?
04:44
Deleted Account
Alright master.
S
04:45
Sy
ah zack, 2% profit per hour is 60% per day which is more than any asic miner does and most clueless gpu miner do - according to you that would result in 60% of my invested ressources to attack the chain if i wanted to which is plenty
04:46
ah na, i did it wrong ^^ still enough, 48% - its not exponential
OK
04:47
O K
The discord would allow an #offtopic forum where community members can bond and grow in camaraderie
S
04:47
Sy
im on discord but its pretty empty there
04:47
i prefer it to telegramm tbh
OK
04:48
O K
(no one would move until zack moves)
04:48
fair enough
04:48
One channel has its pros and cons I suppose
Z
04:51
Zack
In reply to this message
yes you have reason.
My initial thinking is like this:
It seems like there is a time period for while GPU would be more secure than ASIC, at least in regards to 51% attacks.
As the ASIC becomes more widely manufactured and available, the situation would eventually switch and ASICS would be better.
This is a good point you bring up.
Still, I think GPU isn't so good for the other reason. The difficulty could start oscillating.
My initial thinking is like this:
It seems like there is a time period for while GPU would be more secure than ASIC, at least in regards to 51% attacks.
As the ASIC becomes more widely manufactured and available, the situation would eventually switch and ASICS would be better.
This is a good point you bring up.
Still, I think GPU isn't so good for the other reason. The difficulty could start oscillating.
OK
04:52
O K
If the difficulty oscillations are so bad, why don't we hear complaints from GPU mineable coins more often?
Z
04:53
Zack
In reply to this message
You aren't doing the math right.
2% = (your profit) / (coins produced)
Yes you will have 60% more wealth at the end of the day, but the value of tokens you produced would be worth 6000% of the wealth you started with.
In this extreme example.
2% = (your profit) / (coins produced)
Yes you will have 60% more wealth at the end of the day, but the value of tokens you produced would be worth 6000% of the wealth you started with.
In this extreme example.
S
04:53
Sy
most coins use faster algos now, many adjust per block to avoid exactly this
OK
S
04:54
Sy
small coins do face exactly the problems described
Z
S
04:54
Sy
there is a perioud where it is worth the miners time and once the algo adjusts vastly for that increased hashpower you leave and mine something else
04:55
it will even out once the coin is big enough, see btc
OK
04:55
O K
I want to see counterexamples, not btc
Z
04:55
Zack
In reply to this message
Maybe it is as Sy says. the switching costs are too high.
If that is true, it is a temporary phenomenon. As GPU mining farms start dominating the market, it will be worth the effort for them to be able to switch easily.
If that is true, it is a temporary phenomenon. As GPU mining farms start dominating the market, it will be worth the effort for them to be able to switch easily.
S
04:55
Sy
but that cant be prevented with any hardware solution, btc got asics so ppl forked it or created coins with the same algo thus you have a choice again to mine what profits you the most, not what your asic was designed for
04:56
you can take every coin, last one is ravencoin
OK
04:56
O K
In reply to this message
This is a very good point, the biggest oscillations I've seen were BTC vs BCH!
S
04:56
Sy
adjusts every x coins, you mine it until it adjusts times 4-5 and let the small ones dish it back, block time sux, coin suffers
Z
04:57
Zack
In reply to this message
maybe 2000 blocks is too slow. I wonder what would be ideal.
If we change too quickly, then it becomes easier to do attacks where the miner writes the wrong timestamp on the block.
If we change too quickly, then it becomes easier to do attacks where the miner writes the wrong timestamp on the block.
S
04:57
Sy
only solution to this is a more flexible diff adjustment imho, not asics :)
04:57
i agree it is a really tricky topic and much smarter than me tackled it before, there are plenty of adjustment solutions out there
04:57
i just see the result it creates :)
04:58
ive been mining a few coins that got jumped by farms and left after adjustment, block target time 1 min became 30-60
05:00
it will be more interesting once this coin establishes a bit more and gets listed, thats when it shows up on more peopls radar, attracts more miner and attracts bigger miners
05:00
right now the fluctuations are manageable
05:00
and while we are on topic, when is the next diff adjust?
Z
05:00
Zack
if the difficulty adjustment is more flexible, then the issue of writing the wrong times on the blocks becomes worse.
05:01
Difficulty adjusts every 2000 blocks. So at height 8000.
S
05:01
Sy
is the diff shown somewhere?
Z
05:01
Zack
on the explorer
S
05:01
Sy
the th per block?
Z
S
05:02
Sy
block target is 600s? i think ive read it somewhere
Z
05:03
Zack
for now it is. But the community can change that using the governance system.
S
05:03
Sy
so we are a bit too fast...3.4 times
Z
05:03
Zack
the hashrate has been increasing
CB
05:18
CeloStarter Bandits
soon 1-2 Miners from China Take Over controlling everything..
05:18
maybe there is no other way
Z
05:19
Zack
I think I found the race condition. It is in tx_pool.erl module.
This module should only be called by tx_pool_feeder, but block_absorber is calling it directly.
So I need to teach tx_pool_feeder how to do to tx_pool the thing that block_absorber wants done.
This module should only be called by tx_pool_feeder, but block_absorber is calling it directly.
So I need to teach tx_pool_feeder how to do to tx_pool the thing that block_absorber wants done.
05:20
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Why is that a problem. With just 2 mining nodes the blockchain will work fine if they have the incentives to keep the network going
CB
05:20
CeloStarter Bandits
how.. If you controll supply you controll price
05:21
so simple
05:21
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
If they disrupt supply or price too much then folks will move and do something else and amoveo will die. So they won’t.
CB
05:22
CeloStarter Bandits
that is what will happen
05:22
there is no real way to run a blockchain fair and balanced
05:23
i dont care anymore. I will not pay and artificial limit suppy pay price game
05:24
Deleted Account
In blockchains Nash equilibriums are never Pareto optimal solutions.
CB
05:24
CeloStarter Bandits
thats what it is .. Supply controlled by few, dictating price.. Called Monopoly in real world
05:26
Deleted Account
If that concerns you then it’s already happening. If there are 3 folks with 60 gpu each then you are already cornered. It’s oligopoly and there’s nothing stopping them from colluding to create a market that maximizes their benefit.
05:27
So that way this thing should already be dead. But there’re 300 people are mining this in spite of that.
CB
05:27
CeloStarter Bandits
i am closing my trading channel..
CB
05:29
CeloStarter Bandits
doenst matter is gone.. People should join Zack Disxord or create Exchange for dozen free avaiable VEO on the market
05:30
For me it smell everything like price manipulation.. I have no interest to play this game
05:30
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Did I piss you off? I didn’t mean to. I am new here and I was just trying to discuss.
CB
05:30
CeloStarter Bandits
NO
05:30
all good
05:31
you didnt
05:31
Deleted Account
Ok cool.
CB
05:31
CeloStarter Bandits
i was about to delete it anyway
05:31
Join Zacks Discord
05:31
same deal
05:31
at the i mined 4 days
05:32
got 1 VEO lost 4 somewhere in the pool
05:32
Deleted Account
Ah well I am here till ASICS join in. So not keen to keep tracks of multiple threads.
S
05:32
Sy
imho its pretty simple, you dont bite the hand that feeds
CB
05:32
CeloStarter Bandits
Asics will join soon.. Then
05:32
this Telegrsm will be chinese
S
05:33
Sy
and no offense but you guys with 1-10 gpus will never be the controlling power of any coin, neither will it be me with 60 gpus or 100, coin value attracts way bigger fish
CB
05:33
CeloStarter Bandits
its a game
05:33
some few win
S
05:33
Sy
blockchain doesnt make the world fair, you need money to make money
CB
05:33
CeloStarter Bandits
rest looses
S
05:33
Sy
but blockchain creates way more opportunities for the small man to become bigger than normal life does :)
CB
05:33
CeloStarter Bandits
and buyer for 80 Dollar are stupid, because there is No Market..
S
05:34
Sy
80$
05:34
damn ive only been ofered 10-20 xD
Z
05:34
Zack
I am offering to pay $91, and no one will sell in my auction
CB
05:34
CeloStarter Bandits
No idea what Proce is
S
CB
05:35
CeloStarter Bandits
Zack... let see what will happen or not
S
05:35
Sy
ah reddit, i remember
S
05:35
Sy
got no reddit account xD
05:35
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
Small man always loses. Never the point of blockchains. Folks who lucked out on early bitcoins are lucky. Don’t use that as an example.
S
05:35
Sy
well thats what this discussion is all about to begin with
05:36
ppl here are complaining that "Cassel" came along and mined most of the blocks and they are making up mostly stupid ideas how to provent it but that is not how live works, the strong one will always dominate
CB
05:36
CeloStarter Bandits
as i said.. i dont see a real solution of a fair and balanced mining
S
05:36
Sy
exactly, there isnt one
05:36
if you get in early, hold and hope :) it might pay off
05:37
there are rarely coins like this that are really under the radard, not even a btctalk ann
CB
05:37
CeloStarter Bandits
but for my part we should increase award to 100 if thousands are mining
S
05:37
Sy
doesnt really matter as long as you stick to it
Z
05:37
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/mission_statement.md
This is my mission statement for why I work on Amoveo. I am not doing this to make anyone rich. I think we have the potential to protect the most vulnerable people in our society.
This is my mission statement for why I work on Amoveo. I am not doing this to make anyone rich. I think we have the potential to protect the most vulnerable people in our society.
CB
05:37
CeloStarter Bandits
we know that
05:37
Deleted Account
Yes, monopolies are natural in almost all real economies.
S
05:38
Sy
it will still play out the same as always no matter why you start something if everyone can join
s
05:40
Deleted Account
More than 50% of veos will always be controlled by less than 1% of holders.
S
05:40
Sy
i gotta check how to write into file with erlang, i have to record block finder
05:40
im pretty sure the node isnt paying everyone
05:41
i think even mandel mentioned something like this
Z
S
05:41
Sy
cheers
Z
05:42
Zack
im trying to fix the race condition first. then I will do transaction propagation. then I will set up the hard fork.
05:42
Deleted Account
Hard fork? To do what?
S
05:42
Sy
if i want to use your Pubkey variable i just do
file:write_file("name_of_file", Pubkey).
?
file:write_file("name_of_file", Pubkey).
?
Z
05:52
I pushed an update that might fix the race condition that has been crashing the node.
MF
Z
06:06
Zack
How many bytes of checksum do we need per tx?
You request txs from peers by listing their checksums.
You request txs from peers by listing their checksums.
06:06
According to the birthday problem, we should have (max number of txs per block) squared.
06:07
But maybe there is some collision attack where you make a tx with the same checksum and a higher fee, and it knocks out your opponents tx?
06:08
It makes a 10x difference for our bandwidth for sharing txs.
06:09
I guess I will go with the less secure, low bandwidth solution for now. And we can upgrade if we need to.
N
06:11
N
Is the Block reward going to change?
06:12
Increasing upwards seems like a bad idea at this point. My two cents.
MF
S
06:21
Sy
I'll update after star wars 😎
06:23
Deleted Account
Where are you watching?
06:23
Don’t waste gpu power on screen renderings.
CB
06:25
CeloStarter Bandits
zack, can we increase now block award to 1000 thy
06:25
😂
Z
06:25
Deleted Account
And give the gpu mammoths 998 of them. 🍾
06:26
@Simon3456 will only mine 1000 block rewards after start wars.
06:26
👽
Z
06:30
Zack
I upgraded the database, and the api for sharing txs better. Now I will write code to actually share the txs.
S
06:34
Deleted Account
How can I vote to reduce block reward ?
CB
06:36
CeloStarter Bandits
we reduce to 0.0000001 VEO😀
MF
06:36
Mr Flintstone
my guess is emission schedule will look something like bitcoins
06:36
general trend down
Z
06:36
Zack
I am expecting an upward trend.
MF
06:37
Mr Flintstone
but anyone can vote on it with their veo
06:37
so we will see
Z
06:37
Zack
no, it is not voting.
CB
Z
06:37
Zack
anyone can participate in governance.
CB
06:37
CeloStarter Bandits
for the rest NO
MF
06:37
Mr Flintstone
it is not a betting process?
CB
06:38
CeloStarter Bandits
so overnight when everybody sleeps i can change it?
06:38
Deleted Account
Zack will win, he can vote more veos
Z
06:38
Deleted Account
Or bet more
Z
06:39
In reply to this message
Currently it takes at least 1000 blocks to change it. So we have time to notice you doing this.
MF
06:39
Mr Flintstone
is there a fork to determine winner?
Z
MF
06:39
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
also there is a max change amount, that is itself a governance variable
06:41
Deleted Account
Lol. I don’t understand this chain at all.
Z
06:41
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/blob/master/docs/design/oracle.md
Start by reading the docs. Then ask me if you have more questions.
Start by reading the docs. Then ask me if you have more questions.
06:49
Deleted Account
Some musings on the hashpower oscillation problem
Could the problem be tackled by lowering the fraction by which the difficulty can change in one go? Suppose this fraction is lowered from the current 50% to some smaller value (5%, say). I'd would then expect the difficulty to drift gradually to an equilibrium.
A problem arises if the hashpower of the network drops faster than the difficulty can adjust causing the network to get stuck. I suppose in this situation, ASIC miners would keep things moving forward. They have too much invested to bail. I wonder if hodler-miners can be incentivized to do the same. Perhaps by increasing the mining reward for miners who stake their veo for some number of difficulty adjustment periods.
Could the problem be tackled by lowering the fraction by which the difficulty can change in one go? Suppose this fraction is lowered from the current 50% to some smaller value (5%, say). I'd would then expect the difficulty to drift gradually to an equilibrium.
A problem arises if the hashpower of the network drops faster than the difficulty can adjust causing the network to get stuck. I suppose in this situation, ASIC miners would keep things moving forward. They have too much invested to bail. I wonder if hodler-miners can be incentivized to do the same. Perhaps by increasing the mining reward for miners who stake their veo for some number of difficulty adjustment periods.
Z
06:59
Zack
In reply to this message
It can change by more than 50% currently.
I think the first adjustment was 3000% and the second was 2500%
I think the first adjustment was 3000% and the second was 2500%
07:00
In reply to this message
It is an interesting line of thought. A sort of POW POS hybrid to help overcome the limits of any type of mining hardware.
07:02
Deleted Account
Ah. My bad. I know there's a governance variable that limits the rate of change of other governance variables. I assumed it controlled to the rate at which the difficulty can change. But difficulty isn't a governance variable 🙂
07:02
Deleted Account
Pos is shit.
Z
07:03
Zack
In reply to this message
Some people consider the Amoveo oracle mechanism to be a type of POS.
S
07:09
Sy
is the pool transaction list stuck again or did really no transaction happen for the last 8 blocks?
07:11
ah okay, bkyl is collecting blocks and doing big payouts
Z
07:13
I am writing better tx sharing code now.
S
07:14
Sy
just got some tx_pool_feeder died spam, did mandel do another payout? :D
07:15
Msg = {spend, Pubkey, 95000000},
file:write_file("/root/coins/amoveopool.log", Pubkey),
shouldnt this write the finders key into a file?
file:write_file("/root/coins/amoveopool.log", Pubkey),
shouldnt this write the finders key into a file?
Z
07:19
Zack
yes, I think so.
07:19
but I think it will overwrite the last pubkey.
S
07:20
Sy
aka doesnt append?
Z
07:20
Zack
right.
S
07:20
Sy
it doesnt work at all tho :(
07:20
would be nice if someone could patch it it, timestamp + pubkey
Z
07:21
Zack
maybe start by opening an erlang interpreter, and trying out the commands by themselves without running any erlang code.
07:22
erl
file:write_file("name", "contents").
07:22
then slowly upgrade it until it does what you want.
OldPaul AmaZix joined group by link from Group
JS
08:10
Jon Snow
Zack when do you think the chain is stable and safe enough such that people can start investing time on the front end UI?
Z
08:11
Zack
In reply to this message
Why would it matter if it is stable first?
There is nothing stopping people from investing time in the front end now. Look at the great work that Mandel did.
There is nothing stopping people from investing time in the front end now. Look at the great work that Mandel did.
MH
08:23
Mandel Hoff
Thanks. Trying to get to WiFi to bring it up now.
08:23
Deleted Account
👍
Z
08:27
Zack
I pushed an update so that we should share txs better.
This will increase our bandwidth requirement for a while, but once everyone has upgraded, the bandwidth requirement will go down again.
This will increase our bandwidth requirement for a while, but once everyone has upgraded, the bandwidth requirement will go down again.
G
08:30
Gonzalo
I updated like 30 minutes ago, and my 3$ node+miner is finding blocks like crazy
MH
08:30
Mandel Hoff
I have to clean. Did a pull. Lots of errors. Resync now in progress
G
08:31
Gonzalo
Im updating again now
Z
08:32
Zack
it seems like I am downloading txs from peers now.
G
08:33
Gonzalo
ok got my 2 nodes updated
08:33
without cleaning
Z
G
08:33
Gonzalo
both headers and blocks at 7149
Z
08:33
Zack
sounds good. do you have txs in your mempool?
08:34
tx_pool:get().
J
08:34
Jim
@Mandelhoff , any plans to handle payments from the initial 333 (the day 1 craziness)? It’s OK if you’re occupied with other stuff right now
G
08:34
Gonzalo
{tx_pool,[{signed,{spend,<<4,76,28,107,2,177,230,134,69,
58,106,117,231,125,211,168,60,
212,151,190,159,57,...>>,
382,152118,
<<4,8,178,205,45,18,47,46,153,10,218,159,1,40,124,0,212,
146,21,...>>,
95000000,0},
<<48,69,2,33,0,181,58,126,11,168,137,155,193,76,33,180,24,
171,8,94,195,184,106,...>>,
[]},
{signed,{spend,<<4,76,28,107,2,177,230,134,69,58,106,117,
231,125,211,168,60,212,151,190,159,...>>,
381,152118,
<<4,95,189,189,124,189,19,94,167,159,68,142,199,60,194,
190,169,81,...>>,
95000000,0},
<<48,69,2,32,127,228,89,126,228,218,1,216,242,210,233,26,
108,196,126,23,252,255,...>>,
[]}],
{trees,525,1,1,1,14557},
{dict,4,16,16,8,80,48,
{[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[]},
{{[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],
[[{accounts,<<4,95,...>>}|{<<0,0,...>>,0}]],
[[{accounts,<<4,...>>}|{<<0,...>>,0}]],
[],[],[],[],
[...],...}}},
[],7149,660,
[<<139,84,185,162>>,<<"p©El">>]}
08:35
ops sorry
Z
08:35
Reminder that I only charge a 5% fee in the mining pool now.
G
08:35
Gonzalo
dont understand why is this telegram chat so narrow
Z
08:35
Zack
I think telegram is optimized for phones.
G
08:36
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
I know, I've seen. I guess the change I proposed at git made no sense
Z
08:36
Zack
you are nextquick? I didn't notice the pull request until now.
G
08:37
Gonzalo
yes, I am
Z
08:37
Zack
you can't use the "trees" module from the mining pool. It doesn't exist here.
G
08:37
Gonzalo
the same from twitter
Z
08:37
Zack
cool, now I know
08:38
the mining pool can only access the api of the amoveo full node. It can't access the internals.
G
08:38
Gonzalo
haha ok
Z
08:38
Zack
part of the external api does let us look up governance variables. That is how the light node does it.
So it is possible to do the thing you are trying to do.
So it is possible to do the thing you are trying to do.
G
08:38
Gonzalo
ok thanks for the explanation
Z
08:39
Zack
it is a good idea too. It will happen eventually.
MH
08:39
Mandel Hoff
Zack. Lots of tx feeder died and server crashed messages on latest
Z
08:39
Zack
it should even be an issue on the github.
MH
08:40
Mandel Hoff
Just did clean and sync. I'm at height but not pool starts.
Z
08:40
Zack
In reply to this message
yeah, once everyone updates to the new code, it shouldn't be as bad.
I could probably also add some checks so you only try to download txs if you are both at the same height.
I could probably also add some checks so you only try to download txs if you are both at the same height.
MH
08:49
Mandel Hoff
Zack, I can't get node alive.
08:50
Server crashed
08:50
Command was txs
08:50
Tx pool feeder died
Z
MH
08:51
Mandel Hoff
I'm synced but my erlang pool won't start
Z
08:52
Zack
My node is running with a mining pool.
Can you be more specific about the problem?
Can you be more specific about the problem?
08:52
The old API is unchanged, I just added some new commands
08:52
I didn't even turn my mining pool off while rebooting.
08:52
I don't want to disconnect any miners.
08:53
tx pool feeder died happens when you download a tx that you dont' need. it happens when you try to sync txs with a node that didn't do the most recent update.
08:54
server crashed happens when you test a peer to see if it has updated. if it has not, then this message appear.It can be safely ignored.
G
09:01
Gonzalo
Zack my CPU miner went crazy, is finding several blocks per sec. Tested on a remote pool and on the same node. Node outputs:
09:01
Z
09:02
Zack
looks like your pool is submitting invalid blocks?
G
09:02
Gonzalo
node, miner and pool are updated
Z
09:03
Zack
which cpu miner are you using?
G
09:03
Gonzalo
c-miner
09:03
it was working smooth before this last change before
Z
09:04
Zack
oh, I think I must have broken it.
09:04
the c-miner
OK
09:04
O K
I left pool running for update and resync, no problems, but to test I halt and restart after node sync and still no problem
09:04
Any luck @Mandelhoff ?
Z
09:04
Zack
I made some changes to quickly find out if the 2nd block of 64 bytes being hashed has 2 bytes of nonce, or more.
09:05
I thought no one CPU mined any more, since it isn't profitable.
OK
09:05
O K
I assumed as much too
MH
09:09
Mandel Hoff
No luck yet. I think I sync but pool won't attach
G
09:10
09:10
its my 3$ vps node, runing the cminer on 1 cpu 😂
Z
09:10
Zack
In reply to this message
ok, I fixed the C-miner.
I made a different branch to show the test I made.
I made a different branch to show the test I made.
09:11
I also changed the C-miner so it connects to my new mining pool instead of to the old dead one.
G
09:11
Gonzalo
Great... One day he will find a block, sure! XD
Z
09:12
Zack
In reply to this message
not necessarily.
If the difficulty stayed constant, that would be true.
But if the difficulty is always increasing, then it is possible that you will never find a block.
If the difficulty stayed constant, that would be true.
But if the difficulty is always increasing, then it is possible that you will never find a block.
MH
09:13
Mandel Hoff
Ok. I think it's up. I had to restart. Pool process would run. After reboot it was fine.
Z
09:13
Zack
Finally, a purpose for that real analysis course I took.
G
09:14
Gonzalo
I was joking but anyway, randomness is my friend
MH
09:15
Mandel Hoff
Usually the erlang kill script fixes the pool no attach problem. This time it didnt. I'm updated. Thank you for the tx changes.
Deleted joined group by link from Group
G
09:24
Gonzalo
Zack c-miner working now. Maybe you forgot to unlock keys or change sync mode to normal on your pool?
Z
09:25
Zack
no. I just fixed the C-miner. it was broken before.
09:25
you didn't update?
G
09:26
Gonzalo
yes, my c-miner is updated. But when pointing to my pool says "did not find a block..." and when doing to your pool says "If you are runnning a solo-mining..."
Z
09:28
Zack
The default pool it connects to should work. it does for me.
S
10:36
Sy
updated aswell, ups and downs of having a newborn - you got odd working times 😝
10:44
removing peer [-7,[-7,24,5,185,238],8080]
command was txs
command was txs
10:44
got that for a few ips now
Ryuu invited Indigo
P|
13:34
oh maybe not
MH
13:37
Mandel Hoff
Yes, node was down with "potential block died" errors. It's up now.
14:03
3dollars per hour?
14:06
Deleted Account
@Mandelhoff what's the payout scheme used used by your pool (is it one of the ones in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_pool#Mining_pool_methods)? Is there currently a way to "audit your books" to ensure that the payouts are in line with the professed scheme?
14:07
NB: I have no reason to suspect that they aren't
14:30
Deleted Account
any plan to reduce block rewards ? Amoveo should encourage our early birds
BB
15:18
Brian Brian
You sound greedy
P
16:24
Pan
Is there GPU miner cowork well with the official mining pool (https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo-mining-pool/)
?
?
S
18:09
Sy
why does it stop syncing with potential block died?
18:10
hmm or did it...mandel whats your height?
Z
18:13
Zack
I am at 7352
S
18:14
Sy
yes i've seen...
18:14
im at 7351 and it didnt sync
Z
18:14
Zack
it was the "potential block died!" problem again?
S
18:14
Sy
did a -clean -restart, resyncing
18:14
yes
Z
18:15
Zack
So I guess the fix yesterday didn't actually fix it
18:15
3.5 TH/s
I think this is the highest hashpower I have seen so far.
I think this is the highest hashpower I have seen so far.
S
18:15
Sy
current height: 7351
terahashes per block: 340
gigahashes per second: 3999
seconds per block: 85
terahashes per block: 340
gigahashes per second: 3999
seconds per block: 85
18:16
might be some lucky blocks though, you could add another number behind it for the last 100 blocks
MH
N
MH
19:21
Mandel Hoff
Yes, restart didn't get it working. Doing a clean-restart now.
19:25
Pool is up.
G
20:01
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
3 dollars per month! But its just for the node, the miner Im running there is only for testing purposes. In the first hours of mainnet you could mine a veo with CPU but not now.
M
21:20
Minieep21
My wallet balance is displayed as 'new'. Is this an error from the website/
21:20
?
21:20
On amoveopool*
S
21:23
like...50+
S
21:51
Sebsebzen
hey, who's selling VEO
N
S
21:52
Sebsebzen
is there a market with escrow?
Z
21:52
Zack
In reply to this message
It is an actual error that crashes the tx_pool_feeder gen_server. It is caused when you use the old protocol for sharing txs when you are talking to old nodes.
You can ignore it. once everyone updates, it will stop.
You can ignore it. once everyone updates, it will stop.
S
Z
S
21:53
Sebsebzen
I'll PM you
Dan Boabes [RO] invited www.a.taxi
21:59
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
i started 1.0.0.7. it is so fast. but when i turn it on, my computer too slow to do anything
OK
22:12
In reply to this message
I was hoping some people might try openBazaar for this until things mature
22:18
Anybody else empty wallet on explorer?
N
Z
N
22:50
anybody know?
22:58
Deleted Account
On separate terminals, launch miner with each different deviceid 0 to 5
Deleted joined group by link from Group
N
23:30
Deleted Account
You can check the gpu status by "nvidia-smi" command to make sure all gpus are used
S
23:44
Sy
whats the link of the linux port again?
12 March 2018
00:02
Deleted Account
Anyone working on an AMD miner?
Deleted joined group by link from Group
MF
00:23
Mr Flintstone
Scott l?
00:23
Deleted Account
no
00:24
I was really active for a couple weeks. left for a little while and now I'm back
00:25
I'm running Iridescence's Cuda miner now, and not running a node
MF
00:50
Mr Flintstone
@zack would you mind confirming the link to the light wallet?
Z
MF
00:52
Mr Flintstone
thanks
P|
00:54
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
We're are 5 TH/s ? 😱
MF
00:54
Mr Flintstone
I wonder if Kassel is back
00:55
or if it just luck, or something else
00:55
back down to 3.5 lol
S
00:55
Sy
nice diff adjust incoming
P|
00:58
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
So if a decent GPU can do 1.5 GH/s, then now there're 3000 - 5000 GPUs mining Amoeveo?
Z
01:00
Zack
In reply to this message
With so few people trading Veo, it is hard to know how much it costs to mine it.
P|
01:02
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
In reply to this message
Even though there are more people trading, we still don't know the discount rate the people assume to evaluate the price of Amoveo.
CB
01:03
CeloStarter Bandits
we need more coins..
MF
01:11
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
I doubt the community votes the block reward up. What is wrong with just using mVeo?
CB
01:13
CeloStarter Bandits
Hmm. because it sound mini Veo
01:13
Lets raise it to Hyperinflation rates for 4 Weeks😀
01:13
100.000 Veo per Block
01:14
@Jbreezy0 joke
01:14
i mean 1 Mil. Line B3 or Linda or Sprouts
01:18
Deleted Account
Is there an API to get transactions for an input address?
Z
01:20
I attempted another fix of the "potential block died" problem.
This time I am working with the assumption that there is a race condition that is causing invalid txs to be in the tx pool after your block height gets updated.
The txs were valid for the previous block, but not the new one.
So the solution is that if the potential block genserver should ever die, we should immediately delete all the txs from the tx pool.
You can re-download the txs from your peers after.
I hope this fixes it.
This time I am working with the assumption that there is a race condition that is causing invalid txs to be in the tx pool after your block height gets updated.
The txs were valid for the previous block, but not the new one.
So the solution is that if the potential block genserver should ever die, we should immediately delete all the txs from the tx pool.
You can re-download the txs from your peers after.
I hope this fixes it.
BB
03:04
Brian Brian
Are they not valid anymore because they were included in the previous block or for another reason?
Z
BB
03:07
Brian Brian
Hm seems like only the tx that were in the previous block should be removed then? Deleting all seems like it could lead to losses
Z
03:08
Zack
Now that txs are being propagated correctly, I think it wont be a problem if your server randomly deletes the txs from your mempool every 100 blocks or so.
It will automatically re-download them from a peer.
It will automatically re-download them from a peer.
BB
03:10
Brian Brian
K
MF
03:53
Mr Flintstone
Jim do you have an updated hash rate time series chart by chance? Curious to see what I looks like
Z
04:09
Zack
https://github.com/BumblebeeBat/pink_crypto/blob/partial_hash_problem/src/pow.erl#L31
Here is the updated pow algorithm after the hard fork.
Here is a branch of Amoveo where if you launch a testnet with
If you run it in
So it can sync with the network, and it acts like a normal Amoveo full node.
Next I will write a C-miner for the new pow algorithm.
We might not be ready by height 9000. The fork might happen later than that.
Here is the updated pow algorithm after the hard fork.
Here is a branch of Amoveo where if you launch a testnet with
make multi-quick the pow algorithm switches between blocks 2 and 3. https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo/tree/partial_hash_fixIf you run it in
make prod-restart mode, then it switches pow algorithms at height 9000.So it can sync with the network, and it acts like a normal Amoveo full node.
Next I will write a C-miner for the new pow algorithm.
We might not be ready by height 9000. The fork might happen later than that.
Z
04:38
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo-c-miner/tree/partial-hash-fix
Here is the C code for the new hash function after the upgrade. I tested it. you can use the old version to mine the first 2 blocks of the mini-testnet. Then you can use the new version to mine more blocks.
@Simon3456 @Mandelhoff How soon can you be ready for the upgrade? is block 9000 ok?
Here is the C code for the new hash function after the upgrade. I tested it. you can use the old version to mine the first 2 blocks of the mini-testnet. Then you can use the new version to mine more blocks.
@Simon3456 @Mandelhoff How soon can you be ready for the upgrade? is block 9000 ok?
04:42
You can use github to see exactly what was changed with this commit.
04:44
Besides changing the number of bytes being hashed in the pow function, we are also changing the function that calculates the difficulty of a 256 bit output of a hash function.
Before it was kind of step like, now it is more smooth.
This should make difficulty retargeting about 25% more accurate.
Before it was kind of step like, now it is more smooth.
This should make difficulty retargeting about 25% more accurate.
J
04:47
If Zack can get me the output of "L = lists:map(fun(N) -> round(block:hashrate_estimate(N)) end, lists:seq(100, block:height(), 10))." programmatically by javascript or something, I can make that auto-update
04:47
Also, for some reason, hashrate_estimate for some blocks below 50 are broken, I don't know why
Z
04:48
Zack
In reply to this message
It is because hashrate_estimate looks at the 20 most recent blocks. If you select below 21, then there aren't 20 recent blocks available.
04:49
In reply to this message
I can make a javascript thing to get this list of numbers, but you would still need to run an amoveo full node.
If it was available on the external api, it would be a DDOS vulnerability.
If it was available on the external api, it would be a DDOS vulnerability.
J
04:49
Jim
Hm, can do that
04:50
Is there a way to get the difficulty from block:?
Z
04:51
Zack
element(5, Block).
04:52
but it is expressed in a sort of scientific notation.
04:53
oh, this is what you want.
block:hashes_per_block(B).
04:53
or
block:hashes_per_block(block:get_by_height(1000)).
04:58
ok, I wrote the change.
curl -i -d '["mining_data", 100]' http://localhost:8081 is how you access it with curl.
04:58
04:58
the
100 means to look up every 100th block.
J
05:05
Jim
Thanks, let me test this later
Z
05:05
Zack
Is there any other blockchain where a user's suggestion can get pushed into the core code in less than 10 minutes?
J
05:06
Jim
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
👍, 32.3 KB
Z
05:28
Zack
$87 per Veo so far. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmoveoTrader/comments/83bnlt/auction_of_002_btc/
No one will sell at a lower price than $87?
No one will sell at a lower price than $87?
S
CB
05:54
CeloStarter Bandits
Put 1000 VEO .. 100 x 10 VEO everyday.. then we would have a price..
05:55
I dont have to write of oeconomics of price creations.. But demand and supply must be somehow existent.. Supply is not existent.. So any price is fake
05:56
i paid one 150 Dollar for Btc transfer
05:56
yo for me 180 Dollar is like 0
05:57
no time to transfer receive back and forth
I
06:08
Iridescence
Zack so your new pow only checks the first 23 bytes of the nonce and doesn't include difficulty anymore?
JS
06:15
Jon Snow
Maybe our big miners should do a daily auction lol
06:23
Like Can said, there is really no supply as big miners now just hodl
Z
06:25
Zack
In reply to this message
The mining algorithm changed.
As I understand it, you are running a large mining pool. So the software in all your GPU will need to be upgraded.
As I understand it, you are running a large mining pool. So the software in all your GPU will need to be upgraded.
06:26
In reply to this message
The new pow only has 23 bytes of nonce, and the difficulty is not included in the thing that is hashed.
So the thing we hash is 55 bytes in total, so it fits in one block.
So the thing we hash is 55 bytes in total, so it fits in one block.
I
06:29
Iridescence
Ok
06:30
Will my miner need to include both versions of the pow?
Z
06:30
Zack
depends if you want to manually switch, or have it happen automatically.
I
06:30
Iridescence
Probably just the post fork pow algorithm after height 9000 is ok right
AS
06:31
Aizen Sou
Zack what do u think when at block 8k we get a 5x diff retarget, all big miners left and we get a 2 hours or more block time until block 10k ?
Z
06:31
Zack
I wrote the full node to automatically switch, but I am writing the C-miner and the mining pool to manually switch.
06:32
the mining pool and the miner aren't aware of block height, so it is a little challenging to make it automatic
06:33
In reply to this message
I am expecting the block time will still be below 20 minutes after we retarget. but these things are very hard to predict.
J
D
06:37
Denis
Will difficulty remain the same after algo change at block 9k?
AS
06:38
Aizen Sou
My point is don't u think that 2k blocks diff retarget is a very long distance?
Z
06:39
Zack
In reply to this message
For some people it will stay the same, for others it will get less difficult.
It depends if your miner is using the partial hash collision upgrade. This upgrade is no longer useful.
It depends if your miner is using the partial hash collision upgrade. This upgrade is no longer useful.
AS
06:42
Aizen Sou
I know, but Amoveo isn't bitcoin. And when it launched bitcoin didn't have an army of miners who will switch to every single profitable coin they see, and left the unprofitable coin in an unmovable state due to too high diff
D
Z
06:43
Zack
Reducing the retargeting period makes us more vulnerable to people who write the wrong time-stamp on their blocks.
06:43
In reply to this message
terahashes per block will remain the same for the entire 2000 block period, until we retarget.
AS
06:44
Aizen Sou
What do u think if some very big farms jump in to mine Amoveo and bring block time to 5-10 seconds ( which is possible given current nethash ), then after diff retarget they will leave because of the 60x-100x higher diff.
Z
D
06:47
Denis
In reply to this message
Great, it will slow down network a bit, but i guess we'll get faster than 10 mins blocks before retarget at 10k
Z
07:45
Zack
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/amoveo-mining-pool/tree/partial-hash-fix
I made a branch of the mining pool to work after the hard fork.
So now the C-miner, the full node, and the mining pool are all prepared.
I am still waiting for Sy and Kassel to tell me they are ready.
I made a branch of the mining pool to work after the hard fork.
So now the C-miner, the full node, and the mining pool are all prepared.
I am still waiting for Sy and Kassel to tell me they are ready.
s
07:50
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
idea: 1 blockchain for sy and kassel (assuming they are different)
1 blockchain for the rest of the world
1 blockchain for the rest of the world
Z
07:50
Zack
It will take us like 1 hour per block without their help.
07:51
or more
07:52
If they don't give the ok, eventually we will have to move forward without them yes.
s
07:52
scott_l | DeFi Pulse
only if the fork starts from the current block height.
07:53
if u were really looking to get rid of them... fork at something like block 2
Z
07:53
Zack
I am not trying to get rid of them. More hashpower is better. They are a big help.
AS
07:54
Aizen Sou
In reply to this message
U can't get rid of people who have more knowledge than you. They are simply more powerful
OK
07:54
O K
Did the algo hard fork take place?
Z
07:55
Zack
No. We are considering switching at height 9000, but I am waiting longer to hear back from Mandel, Kassel and Sy.
OK
07:55
O K
Okay that's what I thought you said 👍
Z
07:55
Zack
All the software for the hard fork is ready. Or at least, all the stuff I am responsible for
07:56
GPU code needs to be updated.
O
07:56
OldPaul AmaZix
Should we stop the GPU mining Zack before block 9000?
OK
07:56
O K
I just noticed a lot more income today and thought maybe something had changed
Z
07:57
Zack
I don't know if we will update at height 9000.
When the update happens, the old software will stop producing blocks. you will need to update.
When the update happens, the old software will stop producing blocks. you will need to update.
O
07:57
OldPaul AmaZix
👍 ok ty
MF
07:59
Mr Flintstone
the algo change is not primarily because their are more effective source miners tho
07:59
isn’t it about making the algo easy to put on an asic?
07:59
@zack
08:00
more effective closed source*
Z
08:01
Zack
There are 3 major benefits to this hard fork
1) it prevents smart people from finding better algorithms and mining faster than the rest of us with closed source code.
2) it makes it easier to put onto asics
3) the hash2integer function is smoother, which will make difficulty retargeting more accurate.
Any one of these 3 reasons would be enough to make the hard fork worth while.
1) it prevents smart people from finding better algorithms and mining faster than the rest of us with closed source code.
2) it makes it easier to put onto asics
3) the hash2integer function is smoother, which will make difficulty retargeting more accurate.
Any one of these 3 reasons would be enough to make the hard fork worth while.
MF
08:01
Mr Flintstone
1) won’t this always happen no matter the algo?
Z
08:02
Zack
yes, but it is worse with some than others.
08:04
Perfection is impossible, but that shouldn't make us give up at trying to be better than we are now.
09:02
Deleted Account
total net hashrate?
Z
09:04
Deleted Account
hard fork in 2k blocks?
09:04
i thought the block target time was 600 seconds per block, why does it say 120 seconds
Deleted joined group by link from Group
09:13
Deleted Account
I have 100 or so GPUs I'm looking to point at this blockchain
09:14
I have just moved them to a new location and am working on getting them running again tonight
Z
09:16
Zack
In reply to this message
We have 5x more hash power than we did during the last retargeting period.
09:19
Deleted Account
what is the block reward?
Z
09:22
Deleted Account
Any mining calculators exist yet?
Z
09:23
Deleted Account
any benchmarks for irdiscent on v100 instances?
OK
09:26
O K
I
Iridescence 11.03.2018 01:54:58
My optimized miner gets 2.6 GH/s on a 1080, 6.3 GH/s on a V100.
OK
09:27
O K
I
Iridescence 11.03.2018 01:43:39
I have been asking for donations of 0.1 BTC or 1.2 ETH for my upgrade
09:41
Deleted Account
oh wow 6.3 gh/s per gpu?
09:42
like p3.xlarge instance?
MH
09:51
Mandel Hoff
Zack does reducing the nonce to 23 bytes have effects on long term max difficulty that we'd want to avoid? The 2 byte diff value creates a max diff of 2 to the 256 power. Does that require a 32 byte nonce?
Z
09:53
Zack
In reply to this message
No.
The 2 byte diff value is still recorded in the header. We just don't hash it.
You can make more entropy by changing the time stamp, or by changing the coin base reward pubkey.
The 2 byte diff value is still recorded in the header. We just don't hash it.
You can make more entropy by changing the time stamp, or by changing the coin base reward pubkey.
I
11:07
Iridescence
In reply to this message
Please note that the pow algo is changing soon, and I can't guarantee the same hashrates for the new pow
11:07
But I will continue working and optimizing the miner to provide the best hashrate possible
N
12:18
NM$L
9000 block hard fork？
I
13:28
Iridescence
The largest instance has 8 V100s and costs 25 per hour on AWS
13:29
I think the smallest one has 1 V100 and is about 3 per hour
13:29
In dollars
N
14:06
NM$L
hi
14:06
nice day
S
15:08
Sy
No Diff adjust yet, looks like more than just me stopped mining
15:20
Deleted Account
who the fuck stopped mining?
15:21
get back in here!
S
15:22
Sy
node stayed synced the whole night, new record :)
15:28
or not...shit xD
15:34
zacks node stopped aswell
15:34
lol just resynced my node
Ronan (@wighawag) joined group by link from Group
Deleted joined group by link from Group
17:08
Deleted Account
since the update, my node seems to shut down after a while
17:08
anyone come across this?
S
17:08
Sy
if it is with block died! error then yes, frequently
17:09
Deleted Account
not sure, annoyingly I forgot to save the output 🙂
S
17:12
Sy
block 7926...
Z
17:23
Zack
In reply to this message
I have not seen this error.
I have seen
Please share your crash.log file with me when you discover new bugs.
I have seen
block absorber died!Please share your crash.log file with me when you discover new bugs.
S
17:33
Sy
still alot of tx feeder died...lazy node owner
Z
17:34
Zack
In reply to this message
right, this means some people have not updated since the upgrade that syncs txs better.
S
17:36
Sy
exactly
Z
17:38
Zack
So, do you think hard forking at height 9000 is ok? will your miners be ready?
S
17:40
Sy
Yes it should be okay
Z
17:46
Deleted Account
In reply to this message
is the possiblity of relaunch very small ? if so i will rent V100 to mine
Z
17:57
Zack
3 hours left in the Auction. It seems like no one is willing to sell their Veo for less than $89
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmoveoTrader/comments/83bnlt/auction_of_002_btc/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmoveoTrader/comments/83bnlt/auction_of_002_btc/
S
18:11
Sy
i would sell 3 but i got no account and i dont feel like registering
Z
18:15
Zack
I can make a post for you sy.
S
18:36
Sy
is there a diff adjust projection yet? whats the avg blocktime over the last 2000?
Deleted joined group by link from Group
Z
P
19:03
Pan
Zack,
why the command 'block:height().' always return value: 0 in my newly built full node?
why the command 'block:height().' always return value: 0 in my newly built full node?
S
19:04
Sy
you didnt sync yet
19:04
i think the nodes will have more problems with hardfork at 9000 than the miners, still so many running with the old tx code....
P
19:04
Pan
I see the 'api:height().' return value: 7973, this seems good.
S
19:05
Sy
yeah thats what the net is at
19:05
try sync:start().
P
Z
S
G
19:42
Gonzalo
7999
19:42
1 block to go
19:50
Old diff: 84,937,273,245,696
New diff: 300,166,674,382,848
Z
19:51
Zack
the old diff was 340 TH.
I still don't know the new diff.
I still don't know the new diff.
19:52
It is probably > 1 PH
petahash.
petahash.
G
19:52
Gonzalo
current height: 7999
terahashes per block: 340
gigahashes per second: 3862
seconds per block: 88
current height: 8000
terahashes per block: 340
gigahashes per second: 3207
seconds per block: 106
Z
19:53
Zack
once we mine the next block, the explorer will tell us.
S
19:54
Sy
yeah pretty sure
19:57
current height: 8001
terahashes per block: 4239
terahashes per block: 4239
19:57
LOL
19:57
sorry but...rekt
G
19:57
Gonzalo
current height: 8001
terahashes per block: 4239
gigahashes per second: 34743
seconds per block: 122
S
19:58
Sy
this is bad...times 10
Z
19:58
Zack
That is odd. i didn't think our average block time was < 60 seconds
S
19:58
Sy
it probably was pretty early 6000
19:58
but not sure
Z
19:58
Zack
The retargeting formula might have a problem until we do the next hard fork.
N
19:59
NM$L
10x diff?
20:00
That's means I get 1/10 veo?
S
20:02
Sy
yep
OK
20:02
O K
Are we sure the math is right for difficulty per block? We are trying to approach 10 minute blocks right, it's not surprising the difficulty increased
N
20:07
NM$L
I regret to sell just now..😭
S
20:09
Sy
i think price will actually drop now tbh
20:10
since many miners will stop mining and sell off
OK
20:10
O K
Doubt it
N
20:10
NM$L
But it is more difficult to mine
S
20:10
Sy
we will see
OK
20:10
O K
Let me know and I will buy a good deal
S
20:10
Sy
long blocktimes might also kill the coin
OK
20:10
O K
What is the target blocktime?
Z
20:10
Zack
If it gets frozen, then we can combine a fix with the other hard fork.
I think the difficulty over-corrected a little bit anyway.
I think the difficulty over-corrected a little bit anyway.
S
20:11
Sy
can i import a privkey to my node?
Z
N
20:11
That's too large now
OK
20:12
O K
Relax, it just happened
Z
S
20:12
Sy
nice
20:15
Deleted Account
guys, sorry a stupid question, but would appreciate an answer - can i borrow hashpower from sites like nicehash and mine veo?
S
20:15
Sy
no you cant
20:15
zack the reddit auction for 0.02 btc is you correct?
20:16
Deleted Account
cuz they don't support the coin? isnt it sha-256 algo
S
20:16
Sy
modified sha256
S
20:16
Sy
yw
G
20:31
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
why stop mining? today is 10x less profitable than yesterday, but maybe 10x more than next month
20:33
for every old miner that quits maybe will come 2 new miners
N
20:35
NM$L
Have many miner sell their coin?
G
20:36
Gonzalo
dont think so
20:45
today my VEO are 10x more expensive
OK
20:45
O K
@Mandelhoff the pool wallet balance is showing 'new' again, does this mean pool node is not synced?
G
20:45
Gonzalo
it sometimes happen to me as well, try refresh
20:47
not with all pubkey
OK
20:48
O K
Mine has forward slashes, I still can't bookmark it
20:48
The block time isn't so bad
G
20:49
Gonzalo
oh I see
20:49
yes, time goes between 10 and 20 minutes
20:49
so far
Z
20:57
the auction ends in 3 minutes. Looks like Sy won.
20:58
It looks like all the blocks are coming from Mandel's pool now.
I guess Sy stopped mining.
I guess Sy stopped mining.
20:59
the "gigahashes per second" estimate on the explorer will be inaccurate util we get to block 8020
S
21:01
Sy
some of us stopped, yes
G
21:01
Gonzalo
have you found something more profitable?
MF
21:02
Mr Flintstone
how do you measure profitability with veo?
S
21:02
Sy
profitable is kinda relative if you have no market ^^
21:02
exactly :D
MF
21:03
Mr Flintstone
happy to be the market if you have lost confidence
G
21:03
Gonzalo
right now its all about future expectatives
21:05
I prefer to mine veo right now, without market, than to mine say Monero. I expect the 1st to be more profitable than the 2nd
S
21:06
Sy
probably true
G
21:07
Gonzalo
yes, we are betting right now
S
21:11
Sy
hmm i am trying to compile the linux port of mandels miner but well....not working
21:11
anyone wanna give support? :)
21:11
nvlink fatal : Could not open input file 'main.o'
N
21:13
NM$L
In reply to this message
sudo apt-get install libcpprest-dev libncurses5-dev libssl-dev unixodbc-dev g++ git
S
21:19
Sy
got those
21:19
0 new
N
21:20
NM$L
have you install cuda 9
21:21
In reply to this message
follow this:
wget https://developer.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/9.1/Prod/local_installers/cuda-repo-ubuntu1604-9-1-local_9.1.85-1_amd64 &&
sudo dpkg -i cuda-repo-ubuntu1604-9-1-local_9.1.85-1_amd64 &&
sudo apt-key add /var/cuda-repo-9-1-local/7fa2af80.pub &&
sudo apt-get update &&
sudo apt-get install cuda
export CUDA_HOME=/usr/local/cuda-9.1
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=${CUDA_HOME}/lib64
PATH=${CUDA_HOME}/bin:${PATH}
export PATH
source .bashrc
sudo apt-get install libcpprest-dev libncurses5-dev libssl-dev unixodbc-dev g++ git
git clone https://github.com/tumblecatweed/AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux.git &&
cd AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux &&
sh build.sh
wget https://developer.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/9.1/Prod/local_installers/cuda-repo-ubuntu1604-9-1-local_9.1.85-1_amd64 &&
sudo dpkg -i cuda-repo-ubuntu1604-9-1-local_9.1.85-1_amd64 &&
sudo apt-key add /var/cuda-repo-9-1-local/7fa2af80.pub &&
sudo apt-get update &&
sudo apt-get install cuda
export CUDA_HOME=/usr/local/cuda-9.1
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=${CUDA_HOME}/lib64
PATH=${CUDA_HOME}/bin:${PATH}
export PATH
source .bashrc
sudo apt-get install libcpprest-dev libncurses5-dev libssl-dev unixodbc-dev g++ git
git clone https://github.com/tumblecatweed/AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux.git &&
cd AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux &&
sh build.sh
S
21:24
Sy
ah it only works with 9.1?
21:29
Deleted Account
might be possible, I only checked on cuda 9.1
S
21:29
Sy
i will try, as guessed, im running 16.04
21:29
Deleted Account
though not sure
S
21:29
Sy
damn nvidia site is slow...not getting above 1.5 mb/s
21:29
Deleted Account
16.04 is ok
M
21:31
Minieep21
Do I install visual studio on linux too?
21:32
Deleted Account
no you do not need that
21:32
just install cuda dev kit
S
21:33
Sy
apt-get install nvidia-cuda-toolkit
correct?
correct?
21:33
already installed...
N
S
21:34
Sy
okay time to purge nvidia and reinstall
21:36
Deleted Account
sorry just install cuda like Jamhan said
tookit is not needed
tookit is not needed
S
21:36
Sy
hmm i dont really want to install 9.1 on my 16.04 systems...
N
21:36
NM$L
but you need do
21:37
Deleted Account
Mandel's original repo says 9.1 is necessary.
S
21:38
Sy
bummer
M
21:40
Minieep21
Is there a way to install linux CUDA 9.1 from terminal? I'm noob and can't get it to work
21:41
sudo su
#!/bin/bash
echo "Checking for CUDA and installing."
# Check for CUDA and try to install.
if ! dpkg-query -W cuda; then
# The 16.04 installer works with 16.10.
curl -O http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1604/x86_64/7fa2af80.pub
dpkg -i ./cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_9.1.85-1_amd64.deb
apt-get update
# apt-get install cuda -y
sudo apt-get install cuda
fi
#!/bin/bash
echo "Checking for CUDA and installing."
# Check for CUDA and try to install.
if ! dpkg-query -W cuda; then
# The 16.04 installer works with 16.10.
curl -O http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1604/x86_64/7fa2af80.pub
dpkg -i ./cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_9.1.85-1_amd64.deb
apt-get update
# apt-get install cuda -y
sudo apt-get install cuda
fi
OK
21:45
O K
To install cuda properly I'm pretty sure you can't use the repo version, you have to get it from Nvidia
S
21:45
Sy
okay so thats probably it, 16.04 is running with cuda 8 i think
21:45
hmm but i got one righ with ubuntu 17.10
OK
21:45
O K
I installed cuda 9, it was a headache but I can help you
21:45
On 16.04
S
21:45
Sy
i did it before
21:46
but tbh i dont want to mess with my rigs, they are running fine right now
OK
21:46
O K
Good call
S
21:46
Sy
ah nope, 7.5 and 8.0
21:46
ah well, another time :)
M
21:47
Minieep21
Yea I did manage it a few hours ago with blind luck. Will try again
MF
21:49
Mr Flintstone
about how long ago did we hit 8000?
21:49
About 2 hours?
21:49
Deleted Account
by adding apt-key you'll download from nvidia repo when you do apt-get, so above lines should work fine I think
MF
21:50
Mr Flintstone
if so, 120/9 = 13m20s blocks which is not too bad for a 10x diff retarder
21:50
retarget lmao
M
21:51
Minieep21
It displays E : Unable to locate package cuda
OK
21:51
O K
OK
O K 08.03.2018 01:14:14
These notes were also helpful, but not directly the solution https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/installing-nvidia-cuda-80-ubuntu-1604-linux-gpu-new-victor
21:51
Deleted Account
@imalked try this
wget http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1604/x86_64/cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_9.1.85-1_amd64.deb
sudo apt-key adv —fetch-keys http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1604/x86_64/7fa2af80.pub
sudo dpkg -i cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_9.1.85-1_amd64.deb
sudo apt update
sudo apt install cuda -y
wget http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1604/x86_64/cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_9.1.85-1_amd64.deb
sudo apt-key adv —fetch-keys http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1604/x86_64/7fa2af80.pub
sudo dpkg -i cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_9.1.85-1_amd64.deb
sudo apt update
sudo apt install cuda -y
OK
21:52
O K
OK
O K 08.03.2018 01:08:57
Paul This is what ended up allowing me to install Cuda on a fresh Ubuntu install https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/1028566/cuda-setup-and-installation/cuda-9-1-install-fail-with-ubuntu-16-04-kernel-version-4-13-0-26/
M
21:52
Minieep21
Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default.
21:52
Another error
22:00
Deleted Account
so, try —allow-unauthenticated option with update
https://askubuntu.com/questions/732985/force-update-from-unsigned-repository-ubuntu-16-04
https://askubuntu.com/questions/732985/force-update-from-unsigned-repository-ubuntu-16-04
22:00
apt update
Z
OK
22:03
O K
👍
M
22:05
Minieep21
In reply to this message
Got it to work with the simple instructions somehow, thank you for the help though!
22:05
Is it possible to setup the miner from terminal?
22:05
Or do I need GUI
22:05
Deleted Account
no need of GUI
M
22:08
Minieep21
Do you mind sharing how to do that?
22:09
Deleted Account
22:11
@imalked After build, run this on terminal.
./AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux <address> <deviceid> <blocksize> <numblocks>
./AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux <address> <deviceid> <blocksize> <numblocks>
MF
22:13
Mr Flintstone
lol glad to hear the news about the nodes crashing
G
S
22:14
Sy
haha nodes didnt crash 12 times a day xD
M
22:14
Deleted Account
hope that the node crashing occurunce is also exponentially decaying :)
S
22:14
Sy
i think i clean restarted mine 4 or 5 times over the last few days
M
22:15
Minieep21
even though all has been downloaded
G
22:15
Gonzalo
my 2 nodes are up and running smooth
MF
22:16
Mr Flintstone
how many peers do you guys see?
M
22:17
Minieep21
I think so.
Typed:
sudo apt-get install libcpprest-dev libncurses5-dev libssl-dev unixodbc-dev g++ git
Typed:
sudo apt-get install libcpprest-dev libncurses5-dev libssl-dev unixodbc-dev g++ git
22:17
Then
sh build.sh
sh build.sh
S
Z
M
22:19
Minieep21
How can I manually enter directory to try build again?
22:20
Deleted Account
what do yo see if you type ls
22:20
you
M
22:21
Minieep21
7fa2af80.pub cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_8.0.61-1_amd64.deb cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_9.1.85-1_amd64.deb
N
22:22
you shouldn't sell.
OK
22:22
O K
pwd tells you what directory you're inls lists things in the directory you're incd lets you change to another directory
M
22:22
Minieep21
Yea makes sense
22:22
Deleted Account
7 peers, and 2 not-synced peers I can see now.
22:23
oops 8 insted of 7
OK
22:24
O K
my up-to-date and synced node is spamming
tx_pool_feeder died
22:24
like 2 per second
S
22:24
Sy
whole node is filled with tx_pool_feeder died...update your nodes people!
M
22:25
Minieep21
Where would it download the miner files to?
22:25
Not sure how to navigate to it
OK
22:26
O K
cd ~ will change to your home directory, cd .. will take you back one directory, to the parent directory
22:26
Deleted Account
@imalked at anywhere you like,
git clone https://github.com/tumblecatweed/AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux.git
then cd to cloned dir, then build there
git clone https://github.com/tumblecatweed/AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux.git
then cd to cloned dir, then build there
M
22:30
Minieep21
I cloned so now I have both
7fa2af80.pub cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_8.0.61-1_amd64.deb
AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_9.1.85-1_amd64.deb
7fa2af80.pub cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_8.0.61-1_amd64.deb
AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux cuda-repo-ubuntu1604_9.1.85-1_amd64.deb
22:30
cd AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux
22:30
tried sh build.sh
22:31
Did I do something wrong with the cloning?
OK
22:31
O K
nvcc is cuda
22:35
Deleted Account
@imalked Add last line of your .bashrc this
Then do
.bashrc is in your home directory.
export PATH="/usr/local/cuda/bin:$PATH"
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/local/cuda/lib64:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH"
Then do
source ~/.bashrc.bashrc is in your home directory.
Z
22:35
Zack
we should make a guide and then push it to iridescence repository.
OK
22:35
O K
This isn't iridescence's miner
Z
22:36
Zack
oh
22:36
Deleted Account
I'll try
Z
22:36
Zack
whoever's it is then
S
22:36
Sy
irid got the fast miner
22:36
Deleted Account
My linux port of Mandel's miner
22:36
yeah
S
22:36
Sy
costs about 1000$
OK
22:37
O K
Irid can do his own tech support
Z
23:09
Zack
So lets put a linux guide for Mandel's miner somewhere.
23:12
Deleted Account
Z
23:13
Zack
great. good job catweed
23:13
Deleted Account
😃
S
23:19
Sy
gigahashes per second: 6815
23:19
not bad
Z
MF
OK
23:37
O K
I bet that the next adjustment will increase in difficulty
Z
OK
23:40
O K
Yeah!
Z
23:45
Zack
We have reached 8021, so the estimates on the light node are accurate again.
Looks like 4.2 terahashes per second, and a 11 minute block time.
And Sy's pool got a recent block, so he isn't offline.
Looks like 4.2 terahashes per second, and a 11 minute block time.
And Sy's pool got a recent block, so he isn't offline.
S
23:48
Sy
na im not offline yet but some miners left
G
23:57
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
[{{203,80,236,230},8080},
{{199,247,25,21},8080},
{{45,77,54,198},8080},
{{45,63,42,184},8080},
{{162,218,209,18},8080},
{{159,65,173,9},8080},
{{51,15,69,135},8080},
{{24,5,185,238},8080},
{{192,241,214,12},8080},
{{52,234,133,196},8080},
{{51,15,64,211},8080},
{{70,133,222,59},8080},
{{51,15,75,100},8080},
{{78,46,149,239},8080},
{{73,95,148,9},8080},
{{176,9,84,75},8080},
{{159,65,120,84},8080},
{{45,79,102,18},8080}]
13 March 2018
M
00:01
Minieep21
Anyone mining with P100's?
S
00:15
Sy
seems about right, only static ips are in that list
00:16
its not every node ever started
G
00:22
Gonzalo
right, I had 2 nodes the first days that don't appear here: 51.15.212.91 and 163.172.144.202
00:23
first mainnet days I mean
OK
00:23
O K
I restart/update mine once a day unless someone mentions crashes/updates needed
G
00:24
Gonzalo
+1
S
00:29
Sy
i only restart if out of sync
I
00:31
Iridescence
I am making a network explorer to visualize network health
00:31
Will probably release it in a couple of days
G
00:32
Gonzalo
great
MF
MH
00:48
Mandel Hoff
There is a strong probability that I will have to stop Operating the pool due to tax reporting responsibilities. There is a point that is approaching where I would have to gather Tax IDs from all miners I pay out to, and do miner withholding in order to comply. That's completely unreasonable to accomplish, and I have not found any existing pools that do that. I have no intention of being out of compliance with the tax code though, which will cause me to stop operating due to absurd "miner reporting and withholding" requirements. This may be for the best as I'm a developer and not an operator, and I'm really not managing anxiety well lately.
I have several calls to tax attorneys for consultations to confirm all of this, but I don't expect they will give me "good news". I think the best I can hope for is that I can sell or license my pool software to another operator that may not have the same tax compliance requirements as I do. I'd consider a lump sum payment or on-going payout fee. I need to verify, but I think I should be able to just claim this "software sale/license" as regular income and not be liable for reporting miner payments.
I hope I am able to continue in the Amoveo community with future development efforts, but operation of the pool seems very get discontinued (by me).
When/If I do stop, I'll set payout threshold down to near the "spend fee" and that should trigger any unpaid balance to get paid. This may happen this week, and I'll do my best to give the pool the POW change upgrades (which is probably a few days away from now).
I have several calls to tax attorneys for consultations to confirm all of this, but I don't expect they will give me "good news". I think the best I can hope for is that I can sell or license my pool software to another operator that may not have the same tax compliance requirements as I do. I'd consider a lump sum payment or on-going payout fee. I need to verify, but I think I should be able to just claim this "software sale/license" as regular income and not be liable for reporting miner payments.
I hope I am able to continue in the Amoveo community with future development efforts, but operation of the pool seems very get discontinued (by me).
When/If I do stop, I'll set payout threshold down to near the "spend fee" and that should trigger any unpaid balance to get paid. This may happen this week, and I'll do my best to give the pool the POW change upgrades (which is probably a few days away from now).
OK
00:49
O K
I'm sorry to hear that Mandel, I'm interested in working something out with you
G
00:50
maybe someone in another country can keep the pool
OK
00:53
O K
I don't know the answer, but maybe you could incorporate in estonia with their e-registration and keep servers in another country?
00:53
Something to mention to attorneys if you already have some working on it for you
G
00:53
Gonzalo
Sorry to hear this Mandel
OK
MH
00:55
Mandel Hoff
I'm West Coast North America. The problem is Canada and the US both define miners as "contractors" and when a contractor is paid a certain amount you have to do "information reporting". No crypto pools actually do this, so it's absurd, but I don't want personal liability on that at all.
Canada:
http://www.taxplanningguide.ca/tax-planning-guide/section-1-businesses/reporting-system-contractors/
US:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
Canada:
http://www.taxplanningguide.ca/tax-planning-guide/section-1-businesses/reporting-system-contractors/
US:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
OK
00:55
O K
What about miners who are in other countries?
00:56
What tax data is there to collect?
00:56
Deleted Account
pretty sure a bunch of countries dont care
OK
00:56
O K
Put a disclaimer that US people must self report
00:56
or may not use service at all
MH
00:56
Mandel Hoff
Exactly, it's crazy difficulty to comply with when all I have is your IP address and wallet address.
00:56
Deleted Account
or dont accept US IPs
OK
00:56
O K
Yeah
00:56
Deleted Account
folks will figure out
OK
00:56
O K
👍
MH
00:57
Mandel Hoff
No, I'm still liable for withholding anyone who fails to report domestic or international.
00:57
Deleted Account
lol, this will make a bunch of talent look for greener pastures in other countries
OK
00:58
O K
Of course
G
00:58
Deleted Account
singapore is becoming the hotbed
00:58
apparently
00:58
as govt itself is planning to make its own currency compatible with the tech and then will probably allow interoperability
OK
01:00
O K
If the biz is incorporated in estonia and servers aren't in US, I don't see how anything is a tax issue for you besides the payments you receive from the biz for yourself
G
01:00
Gonzalo
maybe you can locate your pool on another country and associate with someone there who is the legal owner. So you operate and get a part of the fees, but you're covered about the rest
01:00
Deleted Account
yes i think then only your icome would be taxable
OK
01:01
O K
Don't operate "out of west coast NA"
MH
01:02
Mandel Hoff
Honestly, I probably won't be able to sleep at night doing that. My tolerance for risk is pretty low.
OK
01:03
O K
Isn't that what big international corps do, legally, on a regular basis?
G
01:03
Gonzalo
crypto is risky 😜
OK
01:03
O K
I understand
MH
01:04
Mandel Hoff
I'm pretty sure I'll have to sell most of my Amoveo to pay tax bill by the EOY. I'd love to hodl but tax bill is due when the "property" is received, so can't offord to hodl.
G
01:04
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
yes, but they have almost infinite resorces to spend on attorneys
OK
01:04
O K
just about anything done with attorneys can be done without attorneys, but I understand where you're coming from
01:05
Hearing people losing so much over ignorant tax policies breaks my heart
01:05
Crypto isn't supposed to be about that
G
01:05
Gonzalo
govs are trying to kill crypto, but no way
S
01:06
Sy
you should be fine if you tax your own winnings
01:06
taxing everyones income isnt your job
G
01:06
Gonzalo
fear and taxes is the only way they know
MH
01:07
Mandel Hoff
Yes, the pool payouts become contractor fees and when they exceed "X" then information reporting kicks in for domestic and international.
G
01:07
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
taxes usually arent this way: you pay your customer taxes, your customer pays yours... this way everybody is under control
MH
01:07
Mandel Hoff
I had no idea that was a thing until I really started reading about it. Hopefully, that's not a thing all over the world - just NA.
G
01:08
Gonzalo
Mandel you do whatever you feel you have to do, but Im pretty sure you wont have any problem at all
I
01:12
Iridescence
NA LUL
G
01:12
Gonzalo
Anyway, Im sure you will get many good offers by PM. If you dont find a nice solution for you send me a message
OK
01:12
O K
Yeah man, give the pool away to some random dude in eastern europe and disappear if you know what I mean
G
M
01:13
Minieep21
You mean DON'T give the pool away to some random dude in eastern Europe and DON'T disappear if you know what I mean ;)
G
01:15
Gonzalo
One year later you will find a random dude driving a Lambo in eastern europe, looking much like Mandel 😂
MH
01:20
Mandel Hoff
Tech notes: The pool runs on Windows IIS with MySQL. A 2 or 4 cpu VPS is recommended. The bandwidth currently is about 8gb in/out per day. Nearly everything that matters is tuned from the web.config file.
G
01:21
Gonzalo
nice
01:21
will you offer technical advise to your buyer?
I
01:21
Iridescence
Windows IIS @_@
G
MH
01:24
Mandel Hoff
Yes, I'll offer to deploy and configure and advise and not compete.
G
01:24
Greg
Just kidding. Man I feel you
01:29
Deleted Account
@Mandelhoff i just shifted from 1st version of windowscuda miner to 7th. my hashrate increased from 80 mh/s to 200mh/s. Really appreciate your work.
01:29
but i am getting this error now
G
01:29
Greg
What you did for this community is great. Too bad if it ends because of this.
MH
01:30
Mandel Hoff
👍 I'm happy to help. That's odd. What gpu model and what blocksize/numblocks?
G
MH
01:31
Mandel Hoff
Yes, lower blocksize or numblocks may fix that.
01:31
I can still participate as a miner or developer - just not a pool operator.
G
J
01:36
Jim
Is it really a 10x retarget? Zack’s and mandel’s numbers don’t seem to agree. 4x seems like more correct.
01:37
Deleted Account
Yes, thanks will test it now.
01:38
so when amoveo gets hardforked will you update your windows gpu miner? @Mandelhoff
MH
01:39
Mandel Hoff
Yes, I plan to update the gpu miner code. I have not yet started that. Probably have a few days left at the current mining speed until block 9k.
MF
01:44
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
isn’t the difficulty number something that can be found on chain?
01:50
Deleted Account
@Mandelhoff really appreciate your work. hope that the pool you started keeps going on some way.
MH
01:50
Mandel Hoff
Thanks! Great job doing the linux port. That's very helpful to many people here.
01:51
Deleted Account
👍
Z
02:00
Zack
In reply to this message
USA taxes worldwide income, and they tax any business where an American owns more than 10% as if the business was in the USA.
OK
02:00
O K
That's not the objective
02:01
The objective is to not be required to collect and report tax data of the miners
02:01
Not for Mandel to pay less in taxes himself
MF
02:02
Mr Flintstone
has there been any legal enforcement or even a case brought against USA pool operators relative to collecting tax information and withholdings of the miners?
Z
02:05
Zack
In reply to this message
Not only would Mandel have to leave the country, he would have to own less than 10% of the mining pool in order to achieve that goal.
OK
02:05
O K
I don't believe that, for instance you can't pay an employee a dollar an hour in the US, but that doesn't apply overseas
Z
02:05
Zack
Much easier if he is Canadian or mexican
MH
02:06
Mandel Hoff
In reply to this message
No, all the reported cases I could find were currently against exchanges, traders, or miners. Pools are very under classified, but it really looks like they'd be paying "contractors" from everything I've observed.
Z
OK
02:07
O K
Surely businesses that are owned by americans are incorporated abroad and hire contractors abroad don't have to collect tax data for those non-US contractors
02:09
The IRS will definitely get mad with you if you don't report your employee's income, even if it's below the minimum wage
02:09
Which is the point
MH
02:09
Mandel Hoff
No, I'm pretty sure this applies:
For payments to non-U.S. persons, see Publication 515, Withholding of
Tax on Nonresident Aliens and Foreign Entities.
For payments to non-U.S. persons, see Publication 515, Withholding of
Tax on Nonresident Aliens and Foreign Entities.
Z
02:10
Zack
They do this because they don't want you to take your money out of the USA.
MH
02:11
Mandel Hoff
Canada is similar:
https://quickbooks.intuit.com/ca/resources/taxes/the-tax-implications-of-hiring-foreign-contractors/
I can't find a crypto ruling from Canada, so the US is easier to reference.
https://quickbooks.intuit.com/ca/resources/taxes/the-tax-implications-of-hiring-foreign-contractors/
I can't find a crypto ruling from Canada, so the US is easier to reference.
OK
02:12
O K
You're referencing materials for US companies hiring foreign companies
MH
02:14
Mandel Hoff
Right - as Zack said, I probably can't pretend that the pool would be owned by a non-NA entity. That won't fly.
OK
02:14
O K
I'm not talking about pretending
02:15
I refuse to believe that americans that own businesses in less developed regions are required to collect tax data on everyone that works for them in that region
02:15
Wouldn't make sense
Z
OK
02:16
O K
For one thing a lot of regions just don't have tax data to collect...
02:17
In reply to this message
I agree with you there, but I meant more like, it wouldn't make sense because bigwigs would never let that fly
I
02:17
Iridescence
Couldn't you just increase the miner fee% for withholding?
Z
02:17
Zack
In reply to this message
Big wigs love bigger reporting costs. It makes it harder for the little guy to compete.
MH
02:18
Mandel Hoff
Yes, but the peperwork for managing withholding seems far more work and less reasonable than just licensing the pool to another operator who may not have to comply with that nonsense.
OK
I
02:19
Iridescence
Yeah
MF
Z
02:20
Zack
Or Mandel could charge 0%, and get donations.
MH
02:20
Mandel Hoff
I certainly don't feel cheated out of anything. Hopefully, I'll keep getting a % and that's perfectly fine with me. I'd rather do development than operations..
I
02:20
Iridescence
Paying taxes for code blows my mind
02:21
For exchanging code that doesn't involve USD at all
MH
02:21
Mandel Hoff
In reply to this message
No, the problem is miner share payouts can't be done by me. The income part is fine. That's easy enough to calculate and report.
OK
02:21
O K
What if it's done by a DAO
G
MH
02:35
Mandel Hoff
No, it reasonably has some basis value. It's probably right around the actual cost to generate one. A new cryptocurrency with a high chance of failure (as reported by Zack) should not merit a high basis. Basis for the first 6k blocks are arguably extremely low.
Z
02:39
Zack
With my mining pool I don't hold customer funds or pay miners. We divide up the profit from each block the moment it is found.
Maybe if you use my pool, you wouldn't be hiring any consultants
Maybe if you use my pool, you wouldn't be hiring any consultants
MF
02:39
Mr Flintstone
the value prop of mandels pool is that you decrease your payout volatility because it uses difficulty shares tho
OK
02:40
O K
Shared pool is vastly preferred for small miners
MH
02:40
Mandel Hoff
Yes, whoever gets coinbase gets the income, and you technically do a payout to the block finder. Same problem with share pool as with a winner-take-all pool. Coin base address is paying a contractor.
Z
02:41
Zack
This is all uncharted territory as for tax purposes. It is impossible to have a 100% secure plan.
But also, the punishment for making a mistake is not so bad. They will just ask you to pay more, and maybe seize some assets and bank accounts.
They aren't going to stick you in prison.
But also, the punishment for making a mistake is not so bad. They will just ask you to pay more, and maybe seize some assets and bank accounts.
They aren't going to stick you in prison.
G
02:41
Gonzalo
In reply to this message
but actually is the pool who gets the rewards and transfers then to the miner?
Z
02:41
Zack
I think they can garnish wages for this sort of thing
OK
02:42
O K
In reply to this message
This is realistically not even going to happen unless you become a big fish, or you piss off the wrong people, they just don't have the resources to go after every hobbyist that has a little side income
02:42
They will make an example of someone else first
MF
02:43
Mr Flintstone
block time down to 8 minutes
Z
OK
02:46
O K
Consider how much support and donations a pool operator would get too if they got hit with a back tax bill in a few years
02:46
Not saying that's good to rely on as a strategy, but this is a great community (not just amoveo, the crypto community), you will have it paid for
MH
02:48
Mandel Hoff
👍 The risk levels are not for me. I'm pretty certain I will need to stop operating and participate in another role.
Z
02:57
Zack
I wish there was a company that both did my taxes, and sold insurance. So if there are any problems with my taxes for that year, the company holds full liability instead of me.
OK
02:58
O K
Often hiring a tax professional does cover these mistakes, as long as you didn't exclude anything
MF
03:02
Mr Flintstone
In reply to this message
yeah, as long as you provided everything to the best of your knowledge under their guidance typically you do not have liability
03:02
I am not a lawyer
RL
G
Z
03:05
Zack
In reply to this message
everything I find with google about IRS says I would be liable, and the tax preparer I hired would not be liable.
But I am now lawyer either.
But I am now lawyer either.
MF
03:16
Mr Flintstone
Even if they as a tax professional specifically guide you to some action with regard to a specific context?
03:16
that’s interesting
03:17
it is unfortunate that we need to discuss legal matters in this chat
G
03:24
Gonzalo
true
03:26
my wife has been paying lots of taxes last 3 years because a tax professional did a mistake before
MF
03:26
Mr Flintstone
I’m speaking more about non financial legal liability
03:26
i think you owe taxes no matter what
G
03:26
Gonzalo
ok
MF
03:27
Mr Flintstone
like locking you up etc
03:27
I am not a lawyer by any means so my speculation means jack shit
G
03:28
Gonzalo
not a lawyer as well, I just talk about my experience in my country
OK
03:30
O K
I'm talking about guarantees like this, that vary from professional/company to professional/company https://www.hrblock.com/online-tax-filing/guarantees/accuracy-of-calculations.html
03:30
Basically stating if you give them all the information and they screw up, they cover you
03:30
I don't know if that's technically "insurance"
03:30
The IRS might poke you with a stick, but you get to turn around and poke them
G
OK
03:32
O K
I mean insurance is supposed to be pooled risk, I think nowadays "insurance" is more broad and is used to mean things it once did not (see "health insurance" and "FDIC insurance")
Z
03:33
Zack
In reply to this message
That is cool.
With only $10k worth of coverage though.
I think "insurance" is when you make a bet that reduces your risk, and "gambling" is when you make a bet that increases your risk
With only $10k worth of coverage though.
I think "insurance" is when you make a bet that reduces your risk, and "gambling" is when you make a bet that increases your risk
OK
03:39
O K
That's an interesting way to look at it
03:39
Page 142 has some interesting details about case probability vs class probability and the extent to which insurance is applicable https://mises.org/sites/default/files/Human%20Action_3.pdf
03:42
I was discussing "gambling" with a Muslim recently and apparently historically being "zero sum" is a factor ... I put forward the idea that what if everyone who played the game (say blackjack) received tokens, but only some tokens would be redeemable for money ... he was not impressed
03:46
We got into the discussion because games like poker, if you're good at math, didn't seem to be really gambling to me, because it's so dependent on math and skill ... zero sum I guess is a big deal
Z
03:47
Zack
That is why I don't like poker. You only win if your friends lose.
I like doing things where we can all win together.
I like doing things where we can all win together.
OK
03:48
O K
I understand, but to be fair you don't have to play with your friends
S
03:51
Sy
only save way is to scim your local tax away from every mining reward but who would mine on such pool xD
03:51
stupid as usual...
P|
04:02
Paul N. | BAND (🅑) - I'll never DM you
@Mandelhoff Would you mind allowing people who has < 1 veo in you mining pool to withdraw? especially if you aren't going to operate anymore
MH
04:03
Mandel Hoff
Yes, when I stop operating, I'll set payout threshold down to the spend tx fee and it should pay everything out.
P|
04:10
Deleted Account
Mandel, I think you're pool may be down
MH
04:10
Mandel Hoff
Yes, trying to fix. Azure stopped my vm. Not good. I did a DB backup yesterday... but not since.
04:11
Deleted Account
no worries, just wanted to ping you in case you didn't know
MH
04:12
Mandel Hoff
It says my storage account is gone. I'm pretty freaked out right now. Working on it.
JM
04:14
J M
is Mandle's pool the only shared pool?
S
04:15
Sy
yes
MH
04:16
Mandel Hoff
04:16
I swear I didn't do this on purpose. I have a backup from yesterday.
OK
04:16
O K
😐
04:16
What do you think happened?
04:17
Don't worry about it, I don't think anyone suspects you would sabotage yourself
MH
04:17
Mandel Hoff
It looks like my storage account is gone.
OK
04:18
O K
Maybe it was against their TOS?
MH
04:20
Mandel Hoff
I could contact Azure and get "recovery" help, but that'll take days or more. I'm losing my mind.
OK
04:21
O K
Do you think you were hacked?
MH
04:22
Mandel Hoff
Probably not. Missing storage account doesn't seem like a hack unless they got my VPS account creds instead of the website creds. - But probably not.
MH
04:38
Mandel Hoff
Ok, I found the "os disk" but the storage group is still gone. I may be able to move the disk to another storage group... oh, I hope so.
04:39
NO!
04:39
J
04:43
Jim
You may be able to do it by powershell/CLI https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-resource-manager/resource-group-move-resources
04:43
I never used Azure before so can't help there, sorry
MH
04:46
Mandel Hoff
I think it was a Managed Disk, and those are in the "can't move" category. Great link though. Thank you.
J
04:47
Jim
You may be able to take a snapshot of the managed disk and new VM based on snapshot: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42720630/how-do-you-move-vms-with-managed-disks-between-resource-groups#43917145
MH
04:49
Mandel Hoff
Good one. Trying that now.
J
Z
04:51
Zack
@Mandelhoff blocks are halted with your pool turned off.
Can you at least turn it back on while you are trying to solve this?
Can you at least turn it back on while you are trying to solve this?
MH
04:57
Mandel Hoff
My amoveo node is up. The Snapshot and Create-from-snapshot may work.
Aizen Sou invited Matthew Niemerg
MH
05:08
Mandel Hoff
Ok, I'm pretty sure I got the OS disk moved and mounted to a new VM. Data shouldn't be lost - hopefully!
Z
05:08
Zack
I attempted to make a version of this miner that would connect to my mining pool. But I haven't tried running it. I don't know much c++.
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux
OK
05:10
O K
Damn,
05:16
Who are the people using tumblecatweed's? let's ping them
05:16
I'll have to switch from windows to ubuntu it will take me some time to be able to test
05:16
Unless you're just about back up Mandel?
MH
05:17
Mandel Hoff
Good news - bad news. Bad news is that I can't actually find the Mysql db on RecoveryDisk\users\ProgramData\... - Good news is that I was writing to log files all the blocks and shares, and I do have those.
OK
05:18
@imalked did you get running today?
M
05:18
Minieep21
Yea managed to get it running
OK
05:18
O K
Sy has propietary nvm
05:19
Can you try Zack's ?
M
05:19
Minieep21
With Mandel's GPU miner?
OK
05:19
O K
Mandel's pool is offline while Mandel does recovery
MH
05:19
Mandel Hoff
Ok, I found the mysql db files. Almost for sure no lost data. Just too much down time. I'm sorry all.
05:20
Big thanks to Jim for the Manage Disk suggestions.
OK
05:20
O K
👍
J
05:21
Jim
Sticker
Not included, change data exporting settings to download.
😅, 23.6 KB
OK
G
J
BB
05:27
Brian Brian
I'm using catweeds ubuntu port
05:27
do I have to do anything?
05:27
won't be able to until late this evening
Z
05:33
Zack
The one on my github has instructions for both linux and windows.
I can only test from mac osx, which I will do soon.
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux
I can only test from mac osx, which I will do soon.
https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/AmoveoMinerGpuCudaLinux
MF
OK
Z
05:38
Zack
I don't have windows, but I can probably make a linux release.
OK
05:38
O K
It's okay, I just need to switch
MF
OK
05:39
O K
Should be able to get Cuda installed the second time around much easier than the last headache
BB
05:42
Brian Brian
I've thought that before as well.. I've now done it about 50 times and it's still a pain..
OK
05:45
O K
One time it threw an error like "Drivers were not installed, to install the drivers do (something like, I don't remember exactly)
cuda-install --drivers --silent and I was like, well it keeps failing so I'll just take the silent flag off to see what's going on under the hood "Cannot install drivers without silent flag" 😐
05:45
Thanks nvidia
BB
05:58
Brian Brian
haha brutal
OK
MH
06:19
Mandel Hoff
mysql db restored success.
06:19
standing up the IIS service now
OK
06:20
O K
I'll switch back to your pool as soon as confirmed online Mandel, just wanted to test out Zack's fork
06:23
Deleted Account
Yeah, just tried it as well and got the same thing.
Z
06:47
Zack
Thanks for testing.